How to use weights in the Gym?

Oisintarrant

Hey, Ive been looking threw this forum for ages now but never post so if I get
little reply I can understand!.

Im in the gym 4 days a week, mon, tues, thurs, and fri. On each visit I do...
3.75 mile run on threadmill in 30 mins,
100 situps in one go,
Use the weight machine thing that you pull a bar down above you while sitting down (dont know the name sorry)
doing 30 * front pulls at 70lbs
30 * at 50lbs pulls in a way like I was doing chin ups.
30 * more front pulls at 70lbs.
Then into the pool for 25 laps in there. Its a 25 yard pool.

Apart from over the xmas to new year period, Ive been strict on going the days mentioned so happy with that.

Im 27, 6ft.
Ive started at about 15.2 or 15.3 stone and am as of today at exactly 14 stone. I used to smoke a lot, but having cut down and down to now one a day as of two weeks ago which I know is ridiculous but the one will go too.

The diet is fruit and nut cereal & orange juice in the morning.
Sandwich at lunch
Piece of fruit (Banana or Apple) at 3.30
(Gym at 5 after work)
And dinner of fish with rice or potatoe, or tuna casserole etc and canned fruit normally.

The above should give you a good idea of the routine.
I had a guy ask me in the pool the other day why I was doing so much cardio instead of weights etc yesterday and its spurred me to ask about it.
Does anyone have a good starting routine for weight lifting? (dumbell and machine, not bench).
Im looking for arm and chest definition really. Im also completely open to advise and criticism on all the above mentioned! Thanks

Red Alert

Best bet would probably be to get one of the instructors to go through the basics of it with you - I did cardio like you for ages, and really felt the benefit of it. It's nothing compared to the feeling after a weights session though!

Oisintarrant

Id ask them, but from observing them around the gym, the guys just look at their reflections all day, and the girls are slave drivers, ive seen them make people cry!!:eek::P
There is a bunch of body builder types in there everyday who seem like a friendly bunch, I might go ask them. All the same, I like the privacy I have in the gym and shoot me if Im wrong but Id rather not make friends in there to save me spending the time chatting instead of getting down to business!

legend365

You can never go wrong with Starting Strength. (Google is king )

Its the corner stone to weight training.

InKonspikuou2

Your routine is all over the place and lacks structure. And you seem to be under the impression that doing loads of reps is what equals muscle gain. Not taking a dig at you. It's a mistake that a lot of people make.

Since you put the cardio first in your list i'm going to guess that you do that first. Stop that if you do. Do it after weight training or on a non weight training day. You will just fatigue yourself for the weight lifting and won't gain the full benefits of doing it first when you have all the energy.

Also stop the 100 sit ups each session. There's no need to work the abs that much. You need to keep your diet in check to develop visible abs. Working them directly once or twice is enough. But not for 100 reps. Break it into 3 sets of 8-12 or something. Try weighted crunches or hanging leg raises.

In terms of creating a program you need to look at what you want to achieve from it and what you want to do each session. Most people will split their week into something such as push and pull exercises, work certain muscle groups each session or opt for a full body routine. Some sort of split. 3 and 4 days seem to be the most popular. It seems to me you have a dislike for much free weights by your 'no bench' comment. Machines have their place but free weights, whether it be dumbbells or barbells yield better better results. To work your chest some sort of push exercise would be better than a chest press machine. You may not want to bench with barbells but you should include dumbbell bench press, dips or push ups.

Something like below is an idea of how you could split your sessions. I personally prefer the compound movements and then one or two isolation ones to pick up the slack. And i never use machines. But i included a few different exercises that i or some others wouldn't use just to give an idea of variation. Others may chip in with better examples.

Monday

DB bench press, chest dips or push ups
DB overhead press (seated or standing) or Front or side raises
Tricep dips, french press or diamond push ups (with a clap after each push up)


Wednesday

Deadlifts, pull ups or lateral pulldown
bent over rows, seated row, or single arm db rows
barbell curls, db curls, ez bar curls or chin ups

Saturday

Squats, lunges or leg press
stiff leg deadlift, good mornings, glute ham raises, standing one leg curl or plate drags
Crunches, Hanging leg raises, reverse crunches or laying leg raises

Oisintarrant

Good reply there Inkon thanks! Youve given me plenty to investigate.
No bench work is due to not having anyone to spot me. Im not a bench hater!:D The reps are a fall back from years ago getting bad advise from rugby coaches I think. Some say do loads of small weights repeditively, others say do bigger weight in small no.s so Im thinking the latter is better?

Ya the list I gave is also the order, the situps are something I never understood but did them as a way to target my mid section.

Is it advisable to do the run and swim on a different day to the weights, or just do the weights before hand. I enjoy the running and swimming.

squod

Always ask for a spot if you need one when benching, it's something anyone will do for you. I'd also take a day off during the week and do cardio on different days to wieghts (works for me). Congrats on the weight loss. Increasing your protien will really help when doing weights.(Milk, nuts,fish etc)

InKonspikuou2

Oisintarrant wrote: »

Good reply there Inkon thanks! Youve given me plenty to investigate.
No bench work is due to not having anyone to spot me. Im not a bench hater!:D The reps are a fall back from years ago getting bad advise from rugby coaches I think. Some say do loads of small weights repeditively, others say do bigger weight in small no.s so Im thinking the latter is better?

Ya the list I gave is also the order, the situps are something I never understood but did them as a way to target my mid section.

Is it advisable to do the run and swim on a different day to the weights, or just do the weights before hand. I enjoy the running and swimming.

You can still bench press at a weight that won't end up crushing your throat. No need to be maxing out all the time. And if you want to push it on occasion just ask somebody if they'd mind spotting you. Most will have no problem helping you out.

Heavier weights for lower reps are usually the way to go for maximum strength gains. It also results in hypertrophy. Lighter weight at higher reps are considered a hypertrophy and muscle endurance program. I have more success with muscle growth at lower reps and heavier weight. And remember heavy is relative. Also what is heavy today may not be heavy in a month or so.

I personally prefer to do cardio on a day separate from weight training. Mostly because at the end of my session i'm beat and my body needs the nutrients i have depleted from it. So i like to get some whey and maltodextrin/dexrose into me. Also a big meal about an hour afterwards. If i done cardio after weights i'd feel as if i'm burning muscle because my energy levels are so low. Everyone is different and if you feel up to swimming and running afterwards go for it by all means. You could even go for a swim after weights and leave the running to outdoors on non weight days.

colly10

Do fewer reps with heavier weights. Starting strength would be a program worth checking out. You would be better off doing free weights than machines.
Do compound lifts rather than isolate particular muscles.
I know you said that you are only really interested in arms and chest but the most effective way to work your arms and chest is to work your whole body, it will build up your arms and chest quicker and also building other muscles will also help you to burn fat quicker.
Also doing 100 situps is pretty much pointless, the only people I see with an obsession for situps tend to be overweight and ignore advice that what they're doing is fairly pointless. You can't spot reduce fat anywhere so to work your stomach you have to work your whole body (I mean doing loads of situps is not just burning off that stomach fat)

Oisintarrant

Had a go at some of the advice given, and found myself getting more confused as to whether I was doing things in the right order, at the right weight, etc.. so Im going to order that Starting Strenght book.

The chest dips and diamond pushups are tough but hoping with time I can do more.

InKonspikuou2

In terms of order it's generally compound movements first. Such as deadlifts, squats, bench press, press, etc. If you have more than one on a given day you would start with the one that demands most of your strength and energy. For me that is deadlifts and squats. I then usually move down the list in terms of convenience. If i just deadlifted and i still have rows to do i'll just strip the weight and row from the same spot. But i usually leave isolation work till the end. Such as curls or ab work.

And the right weight will be whatever feels right for you. Nobody else can tell you that.

Oisintarrant

Again thanks for the replies.
After the last week or so Ive changed the following..
Stopped the pull downs and situps, and changed to..
3 * 10 Diamond pressups
3 * 10 Chest dips
3 * 10 Bench Flys (2 * 15lbs dumbells)
3 * 10 Bench presses (2 * 15lbs dumbells)
3 * 10 Jack knife crunches

Im still doing the 30 min (3.8mile) treadmill run, and cut the swim down to about 25 lenghts.

No difference in weight but I have noticed a genuine tightening in my chest, shoulders and back. Of course it is early days yet, but Im now looking for a bit of variation in the above as I dont think its right to do these same routines every day.
Also, are whey shakes a good idea if your not doing Arnie/Chuck Norris style weights? For some stupid reason, I have it in my head, that when we were kids, the parents used to feed high protein dog food to the dogs, which made them massively fat.

Doug Cartel

You're doing pressups, flys and dumbell press in one session? What about squats and deadlifts? Are you doing any of these?

Oisintarrant

Im not using dead lifts and squats, main reason is the benches are jam packed with people, its easier to setup a bench and use dumbells instead.

Doug Cartel

You can do squats using dumbells, but it would really be worth your while getting into the queue for the squat cage. You only need a bar and some space to do dead-lifts. The flyes, dumbell press and press-ups all work a pretty similar set of muscles. You're going to give yourself strength imbalances which could lead to injury. You should try and balance any push exercise you do with a corresponding pull exercise.

Oisintarrant

ok... for the last couple of weeks, Ive gotten in amongst the weight lifters.
Did a blood pressure test on sunday when relaxed and got 133, 71 with a BPM of 50. Happy with that.
Gave up smoking 2 weeks ago too and have noticed a big change in the running, within 2 days I was running further longer with less windage!
Doing lateral pulls of different kinds, and the following
3 * 15 Diamond pressups
3 * 10 Bench Flys (2 * 20lbs dumbells)
3 * 10 Bench presses (2 * 20lbs dumbells)
3 * 10 Jack knife crunches
3 * 10 Lateral Pulls (at 90lbs)
2 * 10 Ez bar curls (at 60lbs)

Plus Im running 4.3 miles in 35 mins with a 20 lap swim afterward (more to cool down and stretch).

Must really get my diet under control too, during the week Im 100% but weekends I end up in front of the tv with a pizza and a load of crap.

One thing Ive found, is my routine seems too short, but Im still bollixed after it. The squats are my next indevour. Im definitely noticing a difference in shape, but I carry a bit of weight in the upper chest that wont shift, and when I tense the pectoralis major muscle, they seem hard like muscle not fat. It annoys me so any ideas how to shift weight or balance out the muscle size here would be great!

Doug Cartel

As I asked earlier:

Doug Cartel wrote: »

You're doing pressups, flys and dumbell press in one session?

You need a more balanced routine. Here's a fairly simple one that should be good to start out on. http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/

Oisintarrant

Thanks Doug, sorry I never replied to you. That link looks like its well worth a go. I have about 10 mins before I finish work and head to the gym, so ill give it a go tmro and let you know how it goes.

colly10

Try get the deadlift in there, it's a great excercise, get the form right on it and it works alot, squats as well but I see your adding that. Are you able to lift more than what you are currently doing, I see that your benching under 20 kilos, are you near or at failure when you complete your sets, I mean is getting that final 10 reps finished a huge struggle?
You could also add in military press and assisted chin ups (with your hand facing away from you).
Any of the exercises i've mentioned would be better than curls, I do no isolation exercises but have decent arms
I know what your saying about your chest but there would still be some fat there

Oisintarrant

I feel fine doing the 40lbs bench presses, but its the last 2 of 10 reps in the last set I go a bit weak.
I have problems working out what weight and what no. of reps I should do.
And for deadlift, what weight and rep no. should one start off at? As in a very rough idea, consdiering I havent got a clue!?
Im glad to hear that about the curls, I dont really like them to be honest, I feel like a bit of a tool doing them!

colly10

Oisintarrant wrote: »

I feel fine doing the 40lbs bench presses, but its the last 2 of 10 reps in the last set I go a bit weak.
I have problems working out what weight and what no. of reps I should do.
And for deadlift, what weight and rep no. should one start off at? As in a very rough idea, consdiering I havent got a clue!?
Im glad to hear that about the curls, I dont really like them to be honest, I feel like a bit of a tool doing them!

You'll work out what weight to use in time, just takes a little while in the begining. As for the bench you say you start to go a bit weak on the last 2 reps of the final set, that sounds a bit easy, so try 50 lbs, its no harm if your not able to fully complete your final set cause you reach failure after a few reps. Push yourself and see what your capable of.
You don't need to be doing 10 of anything either, you could be doing 3x5 with heavier weight either.

It's very difficult for me to give you a rough starting figure for your deadlift cause I really don't know how strong you are. It'll just be trial and error for you in the beginning but you'll figure out a weight quick enough. Check out the deadlift on youtube for instructions, its important you get the form right to get the full benefit. Do 3 sets of 5 on this, thats plenty. If its fairly easy your lifting too light

By the way you seem to use dumbbells for alot, it's probably obvious to you but use a bar when deadlifting

Doug Cartel

The best way to get the right weight is to start off with an empty bar. If you can complete all your sets with no problems, put a bit more weight on the next time you do that exercise. You should always be aiming to put a bit more weight on the bar.