Irish Times article on racist taxi drivers

mehmeh12

This article http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0223/1224265025549.html really just pisses me off.

In particular this bit ' “If today I go to a taxi rank myself and I pass the queue there and I take a passenger, that story will spread all over Dublin: ‘a black taxi driver picked up a fare illegally and left us’. So that would bring attention to all the black taxi drivers, whereas I am the one who did that. When an Irish taxi driver does something, the story won’t go anywhere, because they are the majority.” It is hard to generalise about Irish taxi drivers, he says, but very easy to generalise about foreigners.'

What do people think on this comment? Sadly I believe that this comment is true-how often we hear about some small minority taking our jobs or apparently sponging off the welfare state whereas in reality it the the white heterosexual Irish male catholic majority that go unchecked by social standards, who are then free to blame the problems of the country on weaker minorities who are easier to target.

MikeC101

mehmeh12 wrote: »

in reality it the the white heterosexual Irish male catholic majority that go unchecked by social standards, who are then free to blame the problems of the country on weaker minorities who are easier to target.

Ah yes, the target group that it's still acceptable to blame things on.

Do you not think it's a little ironic that you complain about people generalising about groups of people, and then go on to say that?

The taxi driver situation is due to a combination of increased immigration during boom times, a change in taxi licensing policies and taxi driving being a job that a lot of immigrants will take up.

mehmeh12

mehmeh12 wrote: »

This article http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/features/2010/0223/1224265025549.html really just pisses me off.

In particular this bit ' “If today I go to a taxi rank myself and I pass the queue there and I take a passenger, that story will spread all over Dublin: ‘a black taxi driver picked up a fare illegally and left us’. So that would bring attention to all the black taxi drivers, whereas I am the one who did that. When an Irish taxi driver does something, the story won’t go anywhere, because they are the majority.” It is hard to generalise about Irish taxi drivers, he says, but very easy to generalise about foreigners.'

” It is hard to generalise about Irish taxi drivers, he says, but very easy to generalise about foreigners.' Thats what im saying the majority of the people in country even when they do wrong things do not get discriminated against.

WindSock

Taxi drivers? Racist? :eek:

Well I never!

MikeC101

mehmeh12 wrote: »

” It is hard to generalise about Irish taxi drivers,

The amount of threads that pop up here about Irish taxi drivers would tend to say otherwise...

mehmeh12 wrote: »

he says, but very easy to generalise about foreigners.'

Naturally. It's obviously far easier to generalise about a minority - especially if they stand out in any way, eg look or sound different.

mehmeh12 wrote: »

Thats what im saying the majority of the people in country even when they do wrong things do not get discriminated against.

That's the nature of discrimination really - it's harder to generalise about a majority - but if you break it down into groups, "all males under a certain age wearing hoodies = thugs", "white males between the ages of 18 - 35" = alcoholic binge drinkers" it does go on.

stovelid

Discriminating against taxi drivers on the basis of race is disgusting.

I dislike all of them equally.

Karl Hungus

MikeC101 wrote: »

Ah yes, the target group that it's still acceptable to blame things on.

Yeah, damn those white Irish catholic males, coming over here, taking our jobs and our women! :mad:

MikeC101

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Yeah, damn those white Irish catholic males, coming over here, taking our jobs and our women! :mad:

But you know what I mean - it's very easy for people to start posting about how outraged and disgusted they are by people generalising about *insert minority here*, then say "it's the white Irish catholic males that get away with everything" without a trace of irony.

WindSock

In fairness, the taxis need stricter regulations. It is easier to pick on the minorities, especially Africans. I never hear people picking on the Asians though. Do Asian taxi drivers get picked on as much?

mehmeh12

Yes but if you go on to read the full article the main thrust of the argument is the us and them typology between the black minority and white majority. Yes the recession has no dought brought about the worst in people due to dwindling resources-thats a given. But the racist overtones that are present can no dought be also replicated in other situations in Irish society.

What trace of irony?

stovelid

WindSock wrote: »

I never hear people picking on the Asians though. Do Asian taxi drivers get picked on as much?

How many African ninjas have you heard of?

MikeC101

WindSock wrote: »

I never hear people picking on the Asians though.

That's cos they're all hard working and good at math, and probably not going to take our women.

(Except for the evil Fu Manchu ones of course.)

Karl Hungus

MikeC101 wrote: »

But you know what I mean - it's very easy for people to start posting about how outraged and disgusted they are by people generalising about *insert minority here*, then say "it's the white Irish catholic males that get away with everything" without a trace of irony.

No no, I do get your point and I agree with you. But everyone makes generalizations all the time, it's part of human nature and it's not something that's going to go away. People are just more aware of generalizing when other people get butt-hurt about it. But what do I know? I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are.

moonpurple

what troubles me is that the next Obama could have his dad driving a cab in Dublin just now...

not loosing sleep, but it troubles me:rolleyes:

WindSock

stovelid wrote: »

How many African ninjas have you heard of?

Be careful out there...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEtIoGQxqQs

billymitchell

I dont think I have gotten into a taxi in the last year or two and the taxi driver hasn't given out about the black taxi drivers using illegal plates, taking fares where they shouldn't be.......blah de blah de blah
If its not black taxi drivers, its the taxi regulator they are giving out about!!

At this stage, if a taxi driver starts on about one of these topics, I usually start winding the fookers up....

"Jaysus, that taxi regulator did a great job in sorting out the transport situation in this town. Years ago you couldn't get a taxi for love nor money, nowadays there are plenty around the place. Have to say, fair play to the immigrants for coming into our country picking up the slack. I cant believe people actually give out about them...."

That speech usually goes down a treat

WindSock

moonpurple wrote: »

what troubles me is that the next Obama could have his dad driving a cab in Dublin just now...

not loosing sleep, but it troubles me:rolleyes:

Why?

antodeco

If I saw a "large" man driving a taxi he will described as that. If I meet someone who is tall, he will be described as that. If I meet a Chinese person, they will be described as that.

hidinginthebush

moonpurple wrote: »

what troubles me is that the next Obama could have his dad driving a cab in Dublin just now...

not loosing sleep, but it troubles me:rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

moonpurple wrote: »

what troubles me is that the next Obama could have his dad driving a cab in Dublin just now...

not loosing sleep, but it troubles me:rolleyes:

Um, what?

Darksaga87

Sometimes the black dude's are more craic than the average thick fat lump of shíte paddy you meet on a rank who loves nothing more than to piss and moan about his own useless life.

I got a nigerian guy home one night and we are all pretty hammerd and started singing in his taxi, so he stuck on his bob marley CD and we all started singing "no woman no cry" He blared that fuker out of it!!
I know if I got Jimmy the gimp home, he would have the radio and would be wistleing to his sad ole self and ya know the only reason he is working at 4am is to avoid going home his manky wife.

Especially the sad ole thick in my town who tells everyone who gets into his car about his time in the SAS/Green Berets/Army rangers.
Man I slagged that muppet down so bad im sure im in his sucide letter.

TwoShedsJackson

antodeco wrote: »

If I saw a "large" man driving a taxi he will described as that. If I meet someone who is tall, he will be described as that. If I meet a Chinese person, they will be described as that.

If someone's white with no other major distinguishing features, just an average white guy, do you mention he's white when describing him to someone else?

Nodin

So the guy is basically lamenting that (due to consequences) he can't go and break the law as easily as another ethnic group? The fact that this is even part of his train of thought means he go fúck off as far as I'm concerned.

No, he's saying that if he acts the mickey, all of his skin colour get the blame.

mehmeh12

Nodin wrote: »

No, he's saying that if he acts the mickey, all of his skin colour get the blame.

Whereas if a white person does it no one looks the other way.

WindSock

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If someone's white with no other major distinguishing features, just an average white guy, do you mention he's white when describing him to someone else?

If I am in a country or place where white is the minority, yes.

IrishManSaipan

Why are there so many people of african origin working as taxi drivers compared to their numbers in catering/construction/retail? Why are we importing taxi drivers from non EU countries?

MikeC101

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

If someone's white with no other major distinguishing features, just an average white guy, do you mention he's white when describing him to someone else?

If it was in Ireland I'd usually describe him as being from Dublin / Cork / wherever if I could place the accent. I'm not really able to do that with other nationalities, so I'd probably just refer to African/Eastern European/English or whatever.

MikeC101

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Why are there so many people of african origin working as taxi drivers compared to their numbers in catering/construction/retail? Why are we importing taxi drivers from non EU countries?

Taxi driving is a job immigrants tend to do, for various reasons. Or at least so it seems, in a lot of other countries (thinking of America).

Possible discrimination in other industries - African people might not be hired as much by potential employers? With a taxi as long as you can get a license and a car, you're pretty much in business.

Edit: Plus, if you see a white face in a taxi as you walk by, it probably doesn't really register with you - they might not be Irish though, but you don't think that. With a black driver though, people are probably a bit more likely to notice / think of them as "non-Irish".

IrishManSaipan

MikeC101 wrote: »

Taxi driving is a job immigrants tend to do, for various reasons. Or at least so it seems, in a lot of other countries (thinking of America).

We have more taxi drivers in Dublin than they do in New York. So we didnt actually need to import more drivers. There's more Irish taxi drivers then ever before.

MikeC101 wrote: »

Possible discrimination in other industries - African people might not be hired as much by potential employers? With a taxi as long as you can get a license and a car, you're pretty much in business.

The test is quite difficult. It would be much easier to get an average job. So why taxi driving?

IrishManSaipan

Darksaga87 wrote: »

Sometimes the black dude's are more craic than the average thick fat lump of shíte paddy you meet on a rank who loves nothing more than to piss and moan about his own useless life.

Tell me about it.

Thank heavens we are importing highly qualified Africans to teach whitey a lesson.......

MikeC101

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

We have more taxi drivers in Dublin than they do in New York. So we didnt actually need to import more drivers. There's more Irish taxi drivers then ever before.

It's not like the government is actively importing taxi drivers. If there are too many taxis, then the licensing method needs to be looked at. I'd imagine market forces should set the optimum number of taxi drivers without need for this though.

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

The test is quite difficult. It would be much easier to get an aberage job. So why taxi driving?

I don't necessarily agree with that - you're oversimplifying it by assuming it's much easier for any individual to get an "average job", or that people would prefer an "average job." Maybe, for the people who end up working as taxi drivers, it isn't.
Or maybe they were already taxi drivers. Or maybe they want to be taxi drivers. Maybe it's a job they like?

The_Minister

Can someone explain the concept of 'last' to me?

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

General Zod

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

We have more taxi drivers in Dublin than they do in New York.

so? there's 13k "yellow" taxi's registered in the city of New York. There's another 40,000 "for hire" vehicles registered. Only the Yellow cabs are allowed to stop a hail.

BTW there's more drivers than taxi's, adn the value of a medallion is extimated to be $760k (which is the real reason the Irish taxi drivers hate the regulator, no more cosy cartel for them).

So we didnt actually need to import more drivers. There's more Irish taxi drivers then ever before.

We didn't import drivers. Immigrants in every country gravitate towards driving taxis as the skill to drive a car is the same in every country.

The test is quite difficult. It would be much easier to get an average job. So why taxi driving?

the test isn't very difficult. you can study for it and pass it.

Or are you implying something else?

General Zod

The_Minister wrote: »

Can someone explain the concept of 'last' to me?

Telling another taxi driver where the last position on the rank is. For somewhere like the Dublin O'Connell St. rank it's not as simple as "last in the queue". Because the rank is circular and has two points of departure.

MOH

Karl Hungus wrote: »

But everyone makes generalizations all the time

I don't. I resent that generalisation!

IrishManSaipan

Iolar wrote: »

Why do some get their backs up on immigrants who actually want to work and pay taxes?surely its the people who use the dole as a way of life/profession they should target their anger at

We never needed immigrants to work in the industry, there were enough local taxi drivers. What industry are you in? I am sure there are millions of third worlders who would happily do the job at a fraction of the price.

IrishManSaipan

General Zod wrote: »

so? there's 13k "yellow" taxi's registered in the city of New York. There's another 40,000 "for hire" vehicles registered. Only the Yellow cabs are allowed to stop a hail.

So? New York has a population ten times that of Dublin. Do you not find it odd that Dublin has more taxis than a city like New York which has a population ten times larger?:rolleyes:

General Zod wrote: »

We didn't import drivers. Immigrants in every country gravitate towards driving taxis as the skill to drive a car is the same in every country.

So how did they get here?

MikeC101

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

So? New York has a population ten times that of Dublin. Do you not find it odd that Dublin has more taxis than a city like New York which has a population ten times larger?:rolleyes:

You're oversimplifying things again.

You can't just equate Dublin with New York, there are too many factors. For one thing, there's a much better public transport system in New York, it has an underground, commuter rail system, aerial tram. Over half the workers in New York use public transport for their daily trip to work.
Plus, it's may make more financial sense in New York to use public transport - Dublin is a pretty small area, New York is a massive size compared to it.

Nodin

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

So? New York has a population ten times that of Dublin. Do you not find it odd that Dublin has more taxis than a city like New York which has a population ten times larger?:rolleyes:

Well, thats a valid point. You will however have to take it up with the regulator.

IrishManSaipan

MikeC101 wrote: »

You can't just equate Dublin with New York, there are too many factors. For one thing, there's a much better public transport system in New York, it has an underground, commuter rail system, aerial tram. Over half the workers in New York use public transport for their daily trip to work.

Id say its more or less the same in Duublin, with the buses, Luas, and DART services. Not to mention the number of motorists who drive to work. I really dont get your point.....

MikeC101 wrote: »

it's may make more financial sense in New York to use public transport - Dublin is a pretty small area, New York is a massive size compared to it.

As it is in Dublin too. How may people use taxis to get to and from work on a daily basis(excluding RTE employees)?

Lollipops23

I've had awful taxi drivers from most ethnic backgrounds at this stage.

I think it's a bit rich of the Irish driver to pass remark on the black ones; the taxi drivers seem to be clueless as to the public perception of them!

IrishManSaipan

Lollipops23 wrote: »

I've had awful taxi drivers from most ethnic backgrounds at this stage.

I think it's a bit rich of the Irish driver to pass remark on the black ones; the taxi drivers seem to be clueless as to the public perception of them!

I never had a problem with taxi drivers of any ethnic background and I used to have to shell out a small fortune using them.

Taxi drivers are an easy target, in my opinion.

MikeC101

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Id say its more or less the same in Duublin, with the buses, Luas, and DART services. Not to mention the number of motorists who drive to work. I really dont get your point.....

The point is, looking at New York and saying Dublin has more taxis (which of course, it doesn't, when you take into account the 40,000 other registered vehicles) is over simplified. It's a sound bite, nothing more, and it doesn't prove or even imply that we have an excessive number of taxis.

There are too many other factors at play - I could say the fact that Dublin is relatively small (especially compared to New York, which covers a massive area) means more people take taxis, because it's more financially viable over shorter distances.

And, of all the cities in the US, New York has the highest use of public transport - it's a little suspicious that this city was chosen to highlight taxi numbers.

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

As it is in Dublin too. How may people use taxis to get to and from work on a daily basis(excluding RTE employees)?

I don't know. It's 1% in New York. If we have so many more taxis here, it seems there is more demand for them, no? If there are so many taxis, it would seem enough people get them to warrant their existence. If not, they'd go out of business.

I mean, if we're on some sort of "compared to New York" kick - 80% of taxi drivers there are foreign.

General Zod

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

So? New York has a population ten times that of Dublin. Do you not find it odd that Dublin has more taxis than a city like New York which has a population ten times larger?:rolleyes:

No. the number of taxi's will be determined by what the market can support. I remember waiting until 4am to get a taxi home having left the club at 1am. the number of taxi's on the street doesn't bother me at all.

So how did they get here?

In a taxi.

MisterMonkey

MikeC101 wrote: »

The point is, looking at New York and saying Dublin has more taxis (which of course, it doesn't, when you take into account the 40,000 other registered vehicles) is over simplified. It's a sound bite, nothing more, and it doesn't prove or even imply that we have an excessive number of taxis.

There are too many other factors at play - I could say the fact that Dublin is relatively small (especially compared to New York, which covers a massive area) means more people take taxis, because it's more financially viable over shorter distances.

And, of all the cities in the US, New York has the highest use of public transport - it's a little suspicious that this city was chosen to highlight taxi numbers.



I don't know. It's 1% in New York. If we have so many more taxis here, it seems there is more demand for them, no? If there are so many taxis, it would seem enough people get them to warrant their existence. If not, they'd go out of business.

I mean, if we're on some sort of "compared to New York" kick - 80% of taxi drivers there are foreign.

we also have more taxis than london or paris

General Zod

MisterMonkey wrote: »

we also have more taxis than london or paris

another 2 cities with multiple excellent public transport systems.

IrishManSaipan

General Zod wrote: »

In a taxi.

Probably from the north. Then applied for asylum and got leave to remain under the IBC scheme. Oooooooooops!

General Zod

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Probably from the north. Then applied for asylum and got leave to remain under the IBC scheme. Oooooooooops!

Is there a thread you can't turn into an asylum seeking debate?

IrishManSaipan

General Zod wrote: »

Is there a thread you can't turn into an asylum seeking debate?

Sure is.

The vast majority of taxi drivers of an african origin are former asylum seekers. They got leave to remain under the Irish Born Child Scheme. Those who applied for the IBC scheme were offered courses and encouraged by the state and the various number of state funded immigrant agencies to avail of schemes run by the Dept of Social Welfare. Better to have them driving a cab than availing of the dole. Which under the scheme, they were entitled to as much as any Irish citizen.

The most widely used scheme was the Back To Work and Education Scheme, which includes grants from local welfare partnership to become self employed while retaining gradually lowered social welfare benefits over a five year period. Additional payments such as rent allowance are not affected and the recipient will continue to recieve these benefits regardless of income.

Over 90% of applications for the Back to Work and Education scheme were relating to the purchase of taxi licences and motors.The system is stacked in favour of the BTWE recepient as he is in receipt of welfare, rent allowance and paying no tax, whilst his competitor is paying full tax and trying to run a household on his deflated wages.

Thats why we have vast throngs of non EU citizens driving taxis on our streets.

MikeC101

MisterMonkey wrote: »

we also have more taxis than london or paris

Do we? I can't find a reliable source for the numbers, but the number claimed for Dublin I'm most familiar with is 16,000 or so.

London apparently has 21,000 licensed black cabs.

Paris (due to resistance from National Taxi Federation regarding deregulation) has about 16,000, to increase to 20,000 and people I know who live there say it's hard to get a taxi.

(anyone with links to statistics, it'd be appreciated)

Plus, again on the public transport thing, I can't vouch for Paris, but I found London to be far superior to Dublin in terms of public transport any time I was there.

Edit: RTE website has "Taxi drivers claim that, since the deregulation of licensing in 2000, the number of taxis in Dublin has risen from 2,000 to 25,000." but doesn't provide a source.