Car Cloning

stealthyspeeder

This topic came up on "Heres What I Saw Yesterday" thread, and obviously chat detracts from the epicness that is the "Heres What I Saw Yesterday" thread.

Someone had no idea why anyone would block out a reg in an online photo.

This article highlights some of the outcomes of cloning cars (not specific to pictures posted on the internet)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/insideout/westmidlands/series7/car_cloning.shtml

I am of of the opinion that by making your cars registration easy to view at the click of a button on the internet, you are more likely to be targeted by the people who would forge registrations. I would think this risk increases when it comes to performance cars due to the rarity of seeing them on the street.

Borrowing a quote from the "Heres What I Saw Yesterday" thread,

PrettyBoy wrote: »

So you're saying that another Aston Martin DB7 owner would likely create false plates had they not been blocked in those pictures?

Seriously stupid theories. Some people are really clueless when it comes to this subject, afraid that because plates are visible any criminal will be able to track them down, kill their family and rob their car. If a criminal wants a plate number they will get it. Look on Carzone FFS. If you don't want your plates to be seen then don't drive your car in public.

No, Im not saying that another Aston Martin Owner would do that, what I am saying is that if a criminal came into possesion of a stolen Aston Martin, one of the first things they may try and do is put different plates on it. If they put plates on from an identical make and model and colour that is not stolen, they will not be detected by ANPR, Border controls etc. In England apparently it is rife to avoid the congestion charge. Im sure its happening in Ireland to avoid the M50 toll.

Now given that there is a motive, how will the criminal go about finding out this info? IMO, first step would be online car classifieds, next step owners forums, next step any known picture threads, this would be a lot easier and cheaper than sourcing the information legaly or illegally.

Why make it easier for the criminal? (althougth if you are happy enough with it, I hope you buy the same car as me in the same colour, and post pictures everywhere!! )

Jip

On one of those Motorway Cops programs on BBC, only about 2 weeks ago, they were highlighting the problem of vehicle cloning and had one case of a guy posting pics of his new Holden, a rare enough car in the UK, on pistonheads. Someone criminal with a similar car then copied his reg and the car was used in a serious of crimes in London I think it was and still hadn't been tracked down. However due to ANPR the genuine owner was constantly getting stopped by the police thinking he was the gangster.

I fail to understand why the person who questioned you thinks it's in the realms of fairy tales that something like this happens.

Midnight_EG

It's the 'here's what I saw today' thread :P





Anyway, my opinion on it is why bother?

Honestly, if somebody wants your car well then they'll nick it, simple as. Doesn't matter how they'll do it, but they will. If they simply want to get your reg and and hide another car, well who cares tbh, it's not hurting you in any way, any single person can go into a motor factors and get a reg made up, no proof of ownership required (I've been in for different cars a few times!).

Just because it's on the internet doesnt mean somebody will go through all the trouble to check it, and if you're car is in anyway unique, such as our own Stealthy's Monaro, well then robbing the plate number will do sweet fuck all considering the amount of Monaro's in Ireland!


And the fact it's nice to motorcheck a car and make sure it really is what it says it is

Jip

Midnight_EG wrote: »

If they simply want to get your reg and and hide another car, well who cares tbh, it's not hurting you in any way

Seriously, are you for real ? Someone with a car under your registration is not hurting you in anyway ?! I'm stunned you can think that.

And motorcheck is useless for checking a car under someone else's registration, that's the point, they've stolen your cars identity. Without the VIN number, a basic motorcheck on a reg is just going to tell you the car is the model the plate is on. That's the point in cloning another vehicles reg.

Midnight_EG

Jip wrote: »

Seriously, are you for real ? Someone with a car under your registration is not hurting you in anyway ?! I'm stunned you can think that.

Unless you start getting bills for tolls etc, then no?

Big Nasty

Jip wrote: »

On one of those Motorway Cops programs on BBC, only about 2 weeks ago, they were highlighting the problem of vehicle cloning and had one case of a guy posting pics of his new Holden, a rare enough car in the UK, on pistonheads. Someone criminal with a similar car then copied his reg and the car was used in a serious of crimes in London I think it was and still hadn't been tracked down.

I think that car is in Ireland now!

stealthyspeeder

Jip wrote: »

On one of those Motorway Cops programs on BBC, only about 2 weeks ago, they were highlighting the problem of vehicle cloning and had one case of a guy posting pics of his new Holden, a rare enough car in the UK, on pistonheads. Someone criminal with a similar car then copied his reg and the car was used in a serious of crimes in London I think it was and still hadn't been tracked down. However due to ANPR the genuine owner was constantly getting stopped by the police thinking he was the gangster.

the "are more likely" quote in my post is a link to the monaro owners forum, and the guy you saw is a member there and started a thread about it!

Jip

MCMLXXV wrote: »

I think that car is in Ireland now!

Is that the car ? I don't keep up with the What I saw today thread very often.

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

the "are more likely" quote in my post is a link to the monaro owners forum, and the guy you saw is a member there and started a thread about it!

Ah, I never clicked on that link, I thought it was a link to the what I saw thread here, my bad !

Big Nasty

Jip wrote: »

Is that the car ? I don't keep up with the What I saw today thread very often.

Nah, it was a joke! Stealthyspeeder might get it!

stealthyspeeder

MCMLXXV wrote: »

Nah, it was a joke! Stealthyspeeder might get it!

Its not my car!! It better not be! I have been trying to find a rerun online to check, but im nearly certain it wasn't my colour!

Big Nasty

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Its not my car!! It better not be! I have been trying to find a rerun online to check, but im nearly certain it wasn't my colour!

Whoops!

What have I started!

stealthyspeeder

Can anyone who saw the episode of cars cops and criminals with the Monaro in it, please tell me what colour it was?

Big Nasty

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Can anyone who saw the episode of cars cops and criminals with the Monaro in it, please tell me what colour it was?

Eh, I'm not too sure now, I think it was a kind of 'em........ that's it, it's come to me - it was BLUE! :eek:





















Hee, Hee, Hee!:p

smash

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Someone had no idea why anyone would block out a reg in an online photo.

Get your facts straight, I know why people do it... I'm not stupid.

The difference is that the guy posted pics of:
a) a tata - I doubt someone's going to clone it
b) it wasn't even his car, why blank the reg?

stealthyspeeder

steve06 wrote: »

Get your facts straight, I know why people do it... I'm not stupid.

The difference is that the guy posted pics of:
a) a tata - I doubt someone's going to clone it
b) it wasn't even his car, why blank the reg?

The facts are, you said

steve06 wrote: »

If you didn't blank the reg we could just go to motorcheck.ie and tell you!

I have no idea why people block a reg...

And I gave a reason in a genuine attempt to be helpful. Fair enough nobodies goin to clone the tata but you didnt say I have no idea why you blocked out the reg (in reference to the tata). The bit I tried to help with is seperated by a line and is generic because ur saying a reg, which would refer to any reg.

If it I ever saw my car on that thread without a blanked reg, I would request it be blanked or the picture removed for the reasons above, blanking the reg of someone elses car before posting means that possible dispute would never happen.

Esel

I'm blanking this thread....

PrettyBoy

Well I don't want someone to clone my Audi A3 so I'm going to cover my plates with black tape, just in case I happen to drive by a criminal at some point during the day. Better to be safe than sorry.

Graham_B18C

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Well I don't want someone to clone my Audi A3 so I'm going to cover my plates with black tape, just in case I happen to drive by a criminal at some point during the day. Better to be safe than sorry.

A very valid point was made at the start, and it was covered in the OP that he's just trying to make it more difficult for car theives to get the reg's of rare cars. And also performance car was mentioned, IIRC Stealthyspeeder drives a Monaro, you wouldn't see one of those everyday on the road (I've only ever seen one and there's NONE for sale on carzone so getting a reg for one would be pretty hard), forget about seeing every possible colour/spec/year everyday like you would with an A3

corktina

paranoia....good idea about blacking out the numbers though, especially on the M50

The Recliner

PrettyBoy wrote: »

Well I don't want someone to clone my Audi A3 so I'm going to cover my plates with black tape, just in case I happen to drive by a criminal at some point during the day. Better to be safe than sorry.

corktina wrote: »

paranoia....good idea about blacking out the numbers though, especially on the M50

Funny you should mention that

I was driving back into town from Blanch last weekend and was stopped at lights a few cars from the front, a 5 Series BMW pulled up next to me with a guy in it who looked 12 driving, he slowly inched forward as much as he could and was straining his neck to look at the front of my car

It really looked like he was trying to read my licience plate and he was staring at it for ages

cabrwab

I posted in the heres what i saw today thread and i never blocked out the number plate after reading this going on the yesterday maybe i should have!

Never mind the criminal element you could have some little assh0le ringing the gardai giving the details saying they were driving dangerously too and then they'd have the gardai knocking on the door.

As of yet cloning is not a problem over here but give it time it will as they introduce more and more speed camera's and barrier free tolling or congestion charges.

The internet just makes it convienent for the criminals to get the info, don't even have to leave there house.

But the other side of the argument is the car's are being pictured in a public place and so therefore the number plate is in the public domain too.

If i drove something flash i know i wouldn't like to see the number plate on display on some internet forum.

smash

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

And I gave a reason in a genuine attempt to be helpful. Fair enough nobodies goin to clone the tata but you didnt say I have no idea why you blocked out the reg (in reference to the tata). The bit I tried to help with is seperated by a line and is generic because ur saying a reg, which would refer to any reg.

Because it really is silly to think that people are after you and your car all the time and to keep quoting something that happened to a UK monaro isn't really valid because you're choosing 1 car out of millions that are on the roads. If someone cloned your reg and the cops came knocking then I'm sure you'd have an alibi.

If you were selling your car would you blank the reg? Personally I don't like when people do this, it makes me feel they have something to hide.

There are plenty of high end cars on the HWIST thread without the reg plates blanked, I doubt any of them have been cloned.

cabrwab wrote: »

Never mind the criminal element you could have some little assh0le ringing the gardai giving the details saying they were driving dangerously too and then they'd have the gardai knocking on the door.

If someone did this they'd be done for wasting police and court time as they have to go to court to testify to their claim.

Cookie_Monster

So what happens if you are actually caught with false plates, whats the charge?

My dads plates were actually stolen off his car about 2 years ago, reported it the next morning but never heard anything more from it.

smash

For cloned plates... fraud I'd presume!

PrettyBoy

The Recliner wrote: »

I was driving back into town from Blanch last weekend and was stopped at lights a few cars from the front, a 5 Series BMW pulled up next to me with a guy in it who looked 12 driving, he slowly inched forward as much as he could and was straining his neck to look at the front of my car

It really looked like he was trying to read my licience plate and he was staring at it for ages

And...?

luckyfrank

Why do people photoshop or delete the reg of there car when the put it up for sale on a website, the first thing this does is set alarm bells ringing for me obviously they dont want anyone to do a reg check on the vehicle

Golden rule for me if someone wont show the reg of the car in a photo is becuase there hiding a problem with the car

robtri

a lot of people are wary of reg cloning......

For Forks Sake

luckyfrank wrote: »

Why do people photoshop or delete the reg of there car when the put it up for sale on a website, the first thing this does is set alarm bells ringing for me obviously they dont want anyone to do a reg check on the vehicle

Golden rule for me if someone wont show the reg of the car in a photo is becuase there hiding a problem with the car

For example if it was a high value car, they wouldn't want criminal types finding out what address the car is registered to if they were thieving to order

Cionád

Probably concern over reg cloning, especially with the free-flow tolls etc.

Gitb1

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055836837

luckyfrank

For Forks Sake wrote: »

For example if it was a high value car, they wouldn't want criminal types finding out what address the car is registered to if they were thieving to order

have a look at donedeal or gumtree cars there price 5k and under have there reg blocked

ALARM BELLS !!

Gitb1

luckyfrank wrote: »

have a look at donedeal or gumtree cars there price 5k and under have there reg blocked

ALARM BELLS !!

I think some bogey sellers dont want their cars bein put through sites like cartell

Also if someone was gonna rob a post office or something and they were driving say an silver a4 for a getaway they could just hop onto carzone stick in silver a4s and theres a plate they can dupe for their car

Fizman

luckyfrank wrote: »

have a look at donedeal or gumtree cars there price 5k and under have there reg blocked

ALARM BELLS !!

5k is big money to some people.

If you want the reg of a vehicle you're interested in, just ask for it. If you get a "no" at this point, then you have proper cause for concern.

rebel.ranter

Gitb1 wrote: »

I think some bogey sellers dont want their cars bein put through sites like cartell

Also if someone was gonna rob a post office or something and they were driving say an silver a4 for a getaway they could just hop onto carzone stick in silver a4s and theres a plate they can dupe for their car

It would be just as easy (may be even easier/better) to walk around a shopping centre car park though?

smash

For Forks Sake wrote: »

For example if it was a high value car, they wouldn't want criminal types finding out what address the car is registered to if they were thieving to order

They can't find that out from the reg!

For Forks Sake

steve06 wrote: »

They can't find that out from the reg!

There have been instances in the past.

Gitb1

rebel.ranter wrote: »

It would be just as easy (may be even easier/better) to walk around a shopping centre car park though?

Since when is driving to a carpark and going around looking at everyones car till you find the right car and colour and taking down the reg is easier than pressing a few buttons on a laptop?

gofaster_s13

For Forks Sake wrote: »

For example if it was a high value car, they wouldn't want criminal types finding out what address the car is registered to if they were thieving to order

steve06 wrote: »

They can't find that out from the reg!

I can

Gumbo

steve06 wrote: »

They can't find that out from the reg!

with the right contacts or intimitation (sp) it can be done very very easily!

gofaster_s13

gumbo wrote: »

with the right contacts or intimitation (sp) it can be done very very easily!

Any SIMI reg'ed garage so long as they've paid their subscription can get all the info about a cars owners address etc from the reg no.

Who do you intimidate to get the details ??

JimmyCrackCorn

Any car i sold i blocked the reg on as a matter of course. Nothing dodgie just like my privacy

MarkR

How does your privacy get invaded by people knowing your registration?

keithclancy

luckyfrank wrote: »

have a look at donedeal or gumtree cars there price 5k and under have there reg blocked

ALARM BELLS !!

My cars up there for 400 euro and the reg is blocked.

Whats to stop someone cloning my reg and clocking up a load of Tickets/Tolls/Parking tickets.

biko

I just do it out of habit, better safe than sorry and all that. Mind, only the last part.
Like: 08-G-xxxxx

smash

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Any car i sold i blocked the reg on as a matter of course. Nothing dodgie just like my privacy

I'm with MarkR on this one...

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Any SIMI reg'ed garage so long as they've paid their subscription can get all the info about a cars owners address etc from the reg no.

I was under the impression that they could only access the same details as motorcheck/cartell etc.

-Corkie-

JimmyCrackCorn wrote: »

Any car i sold i blocked the reg on as a matter of course. Nothing dodgie just like my privacy

Thanks jimmy. I had this arguement before on another forum. I like my privacy and if you like the car i am selling you can come and look at it and then do all the carrtell or motorchecks ye want. I have a few fairly good cars and to think that some little arsehole is taking pictures of it and putting them up on a website for hundreds of thousands of people to see.

Gumbo

gofaster_s13 wrote: »

Any SIMI reg'ed garage so long as they've paid their subscription can get all the info about a cars owners address etc from the reg no.

Who do you intimidate to get the details ??

well im sure that most people that wana clone reg plates and use them in a criminal or unlawful way wont be payed up SIMI members, dont ya think.

You could imtimidate a local car sales guy into getting the details from their system (that is if garages can access that on their system, i dont think they can tbh)

you can intimidate somebody in the motor tax office to give you the details also.

smash

malcox wrote: »

I have a few fairly good cars and to think that some little arsehole is taking pictures of it and putting them up on a website for hundreds of thousands of people to see.

That's pretty sad... There's member here with some amazing high end cars that others will never own - they have no problem showing photos so others can appreciate them!

@gumbo - Data Protection act... what you're talking about is illegal!

Jip

do you think some dodgy character working in a dealership is going to care about the DPA ?

smash

That's why I don't think they can access the info... I'm sure dpa wouldn't let them to be honest.

gofaster_s13

gumbo wrote: »

well im sure that most people that wana clone reg plates and use them in a criminal or unlawful way wont be payed up SIMI members, dont ya think.QUOTE]


Nope, but the scummers they have working for them might