E-FLOW!!!

Kimia

Gah. Incompetence.

I set up a pre pay account for these guys because apparently it makes it 'easier' and I have requested over and over again for them to please just make me aware when they are taking money from my account so that I can make sure that there is money in there for them. They seem to take their monthly payments at really odd times/dates.

The last one was ridiculous - it was taken out of my account at 23.42 yesterday and of course I got no email or invoice to tell me what I'm being charged for.

So what's happening (since I signed up) is that they are taking money out of my account without letting me know when it's coming out, so there may be no money in there for them. THEN i get a notice saying i haven't paid so now i'm charged €40 odd euro and THEN i get loads of notices!!!

Is there anything I can do?

liamo

If you set up a pre-pay account that will deduct money from another account you specify when it falls below a specified threshold then it's not unreasonable for them to assume that there will be credit in the account for them to draw against.

I don't think it's reasonable for you to expect them to contact you before they try to withdraw money.

If you don't receive an email to let you know that they've made a withdrawal then that's a problem. I've always received an email when they top-up my account.

In answer to your question "Is there anything I can do?" : Yes, there is. You have the option of topping up the account yourself at a date and time of your choosing when there is actually money in the account thereby keeping the entire thing completely under your own control.

jor el

Unless they've been debiting your e-flow account for journeys you haven't taken, then you should be the one to make sure that it's either topped up all the time, or that the account you use to fund it has sufficient funds available. Either that or change to a credit card payment.

GerardKeating

Kimia wrote: »

Gah. Incompetence.

I set up a pre pay account for these guys because apparently it makes it 'easier' and I have requested over and over again for them to please just make me aware when they are taking money from my account so that I can make sure that there is money in there for them. They seem to take their monthly payments at really odd times/dates.

The last one was ridiculous - it was taken out of my account at 23.42 yesterday and of course I got no email or invoice to tell me what I'm being charged for.

So what's happening (since I signed up) is that they are taking money out of my account without letting me know when it's coming out, so there may be no money in there for them. THEN i get a notice saying i haven't paid so now i'm charged €40 odd euro and THEN i get loads of notices!!!

Is there anything I can do?

They don't do monthly payments, they do a top-up when your balance falls below a pre-determined limit...

Kimia

They do, I don't have a credit with them, they just charge me for whatever journeys I have made that month and then debit it from my account. I'm cool with that - that's what I signed up for. I just think I should get an invoice or something to tell me when they are going to do this as it seems to be always at different times - and in this day and age who has money in one account all the time? I've already asked them about this and they promised to email me a statement every month with what they will be taking and they haven't! That's why I'm asking what can i do. Surely they are obliged to send me a bill??

RangeR

Kimia wrote: »

I set up a pre pay account for these guys

Kimia wrote: »

They do, I don't have a credit with them, they just charge me for whatever journeys I have made that month

Make up your mind. You are either on pre pay or post pay. What exactley is your problem?

RentDayBlues

Its obviously just your account - as I have the same account and I get an invoice emailed me to each month

Kimia

I meant that i set up an account with them, no it's not pre pay so sorry for the confusion. They can just bill me whenever they want then.

My problem is that they are billing me at random times and dates and not giving me any notice or invoices!!!

Oryx

Kimia wrote: »

Gah. Incompetence.

I dont see it that way.

in this day and age who has money in one account all the time?

Most try to, at least. You know the journeys you make so you have an idea what you owe, and you know they will take it at some stage. Why cant YOU allow for this?

Kimia

I do mostly. But sometimes I have other bills that come out at the same time and then all the money is taken, leaving nothing for eflow. All I'm saying is that if they just TOLD me when they were taking the money, like they said they would, there would be no problem.

Oryx

Can you talk to your bank about a very small overdraft, say €100, to allow this to go thru the odd time?

Alun

Kimia wrote: »

I meant that i set up an account with them, no it's not pre pay so sorry for the confusion. They can just bill me whenever they want then.

My problem is that they are billing me at random times and dates and not giving me any notice or invoices!!!

I have exactly the same type of account, and I get sent an email every month one or two days after the end of each month with a link to a PDF version of the current statement for my account. Payment, in my case via credit card, usually comes out 2 weeks later, but is sometimes a little later. You can also log on at any time and see the current state of your account and all statements going back 6 months.

Have you web-enabled your account, and registered a valid email address with them to send the statements/invoices to?

Kimia

Yep I have - I've spoken to them about this a few times actually. I have asked them numerous times to make sure to email me a bill (like you've described) and they always say yes no problem, and then no bill ever comes and then I've no way of knowing what day I'll be charged.

And no I won't set up an overdraft for this - why should I? All I'm asking for is an invoice!!! My god it's not that difficult surely and there need be no snotty replies saying 'surely it's not that difficult to have money in your account at all times' - NO it's not - so stop saying it. I have the money I just need to know when to transfer it into the relevant account and to do that I need to know when they're going to bill me.

tatli_lokma

Oryx wrote: »

Most try to, at least. You know the journeys you make so you have an idea what you owe, and you know they will take it at some stage. Why cant YOU allow for this?

sanctimonious much?? :rolleyes:

Kimia wrote: »

And no I won't set up an overdraft for this - why should I? All I'm asking for is an invoice!!! My god it's not that difficult surely and there need be no snotty replies saying 'surely it's not that difficult to have money in your account at all times' - NO it's not - so stop saying it. I have the money I just need to know when to transfer it into the relevant account and to do that I need to know when they're going to bill me.

I don't blame you and I wouldn't ask for an overdraft to satisfy an inept billing department.

I could be wrong, so someone more knowledgeable can correct me if I am, but I recall other posters on boards saying that even if oyu have a direct debit set up, they are supposed to give you a set amount of notice before taking money out - this is why ESB/Bord Gais etc etc bill you about 2 weeks before the debit will be taken. If they are not doing this then I would think that they are in the wrong and you have a legitimate complaint.

One thing to bear in mind though - check that your email is working and that you do not have a spam filter set up against that sender. Get the email address you are supposed to get the invoice from and add them to your 'safe senders' list. It could be that they are sending the invoice, but from a different email and it is getting filtered as spam or junk. Just worth considering. If that is definitely not the case then I would be checking out the legalities of what notice they have to give and if they are not adhering to that I would cancel the debit and make a formal complaint (i.e in writing and to the appropriate person, not via email or phone, send it recorded post and give them x amount of days to respond etc etc)

Welease

Are you sure the email is not being spam blocked? (and the address they have is correct).

Kimia

Thanks Guys - yes I've checked and it's not being put into my junk folder - i'm just not getting them at all. I got one once about 2 months ago and nothing since. Weirdest thing ever now - they debited my account 2 days ago at 23.42 (i asked the bank because i didn't know who was taking money - no ref) and since then, nothing has been taken out!! It's so strange.

As in, it went out, and there's no record of it, and now the money is back (as if it never got taken at all). It's so strange.

Del2005

Kimia wrote: »

Thanks Guys - yes I've checked and it's not being put into my junk folder - i'm just not getting them at all. I got one once about 2 months ago and nothing since. Weirdest thing ever now - they debited my account 2 days ago at 23.42 (i asked the bank because i didn't know who was taking money - no ref) and since then, nothing has been taken out!! It's so strange.

As in, it went out, and there's no record of it, and now the money is back (as if it never got taken at all). It's so strange.

I'd add the email address, noreply@eflow.ie, to your safe senders list as it may be getting blocked before it hits your mail box.

I always get an email every time I've used the bridge and have to pay.

PeteK*

Does all this mean instead of them taking a certain amount of cash from your account, when your eFlow account is down to a certain about..

.. that you can actually have the right amount taken from your account each month for every time you've used their system?

.. and is there a tag involved.. or does it just go by registration number plate on the M50 Toll Free?



I think this made sense. :pac:

Del2005

PeteK* wrote: »

Does all this mean instead of them taking a certain amount of cash from your account, when your eFlow account is down to a certain about..

.. that you can actually have the right amount taken from your account each month for every time you've used their system?

.. and is there a tag involved.. or does it just go by registration number plate on the M50 Toll Free?



I think this made sense. :pac:

It's a post paid video account. They invoice you monthly for every time you cross the M50 toll bridge. You pay slightly more then a tag user and it only works on M50 toll bridge. No tag involved.

gar44

Hi Guys,

I'm wondering if anyone can offer me some much needed advice. I crossed the m50 toll on 6/12/2009 and missed payment (I am unregistered so I usually pay buy 8pm the next day). On the 22/02/2010 I received a letter from a solicitors stating that they are acting on behalf of the national road authority and I owe them €152.00. I rang the solicitors and explained that this is the first time I had been informed of any late fee at all and that I had never received a standard toll request for payment of the late fee.

The solicitor asked about the vehicle, when I had bought it and when it had been registered. I explained that I bought it in July 09 and I didn’t receive my change of ownership until around August.

The solicitor has since contacted me and told me that they are willing to accept €47.00 payment, due to the change ownership issue.

My major problem with paying this amount is that I NEVER received any standard toll requests and thus had no way of knowing I owed them money or of making payment as I need a number off the letter which I never received.

I've also contacted Eflow and they are assuring me that they have been sending me letters and the problem is that I am not receiving them and I should contact an Post. This is a bit of a joke to be honest as I receive every piece of mail that I'm due apart from the toll (I don’t see how this is possible).

Sorry to have such a long post but there was a lot to explain. If anyone could shed some light on what I should do I would be really grateful.

Cabaal

I passed through the M50 toll both Southbound and Northbound back in December 2009, I honestly forgot to pay.

A week later I got a later advising late toll fee and the fee had inscreased to 6e which I then paid, I heard nothing more.

At the beginning of February 2010 however I received another letter relating to my journey in December 2009 advising late toll fee for the other part of my M50 Journey. I paid the 6e.

It would appear a few things are wrong here as its clear eflow have some sort of backlog in their system. I have both letters that show they relate to a journey months ago yet the letters themselves were sent months apart.

I don't complain I forgot to pay so fair enough I have to pay the 6e but in your case OP eflow have no way of confirming that
1 They actually sent you the first warning
2 An Post deliveryed it.

If An Post didn't deliver it then thats not your fault and as you had not been notified it would be my view that the 6e late toll fee applys.

Unless eflow sent the first warning letter via registered mail they have no way of confirming that you got it.

I'd give them just 6e in respect to the Journey and then ask them to prove that they sent the first warning letter and that you received it.

gar44

See thats where I'm having the problem , because E Flow have passed it on to a solicitor they said that they can not discuss the payment with me. They have assured me that the letters have been sent and they have given my correct address. They have also stated that it is not there responsibility if I have not received the letter that they are only responsible for sending it and that my problem is with an post.

Cabaal

gar44 wrote: »

See thats where I'm having the problem , because E Flow have passed it on to a solicitor they said that they can not discuss the payment with me. They have assured me that the letters have been sent and they have given my correct address. They have also stated that it is not there responsibility if I have not received the letter that they are only responsible for sending it and that my problem is with an post.

They are saying it was sent but can they actually prove it?

Given they are clearly have some sort of problems with their late toll notification system (atleast based on the massive delays experienced in me getting letters) I'd be reluctant to believe them.

gar44

Yea I completely agree. I've been making phone calls all morning and an post have 100% assured me that any mail they have received for me has been delivered. I have told E Flow this but still they admit no fault, they say that there computer lists four dates that letters were sent. I have told them I want copies of all of the letters that were sent and they guy has told me that I will receive them within the next two days. The problem is knowing my luck the letters will arrive this time and my point will be made invalid. I dont know what else I can do here. I feel like my rights are being ignored and I have no choice but to pay.

Hagar

gar44 wrote: »

They have also stated that it is not there responsibility if I have not received the letter that they are only responsible for sending it and that my problem is with an post.

Tell them that you have posted the cheque already and if they haven't received it their problem is with An Post.;)

gar44

haha classic I honestly wish I could do that but I dont think thats an option.

Hagar

It's very much an option as a bargaining tool.

Explain that you are prepared to issue a new cheque to pay the amount on the original letter, which you never received, if they send you a copy of it.

gar44

See the problem is that E flow are telling me that I have to deal with the solicitor now they can't discuss the issue of that bill with me. When i speak to the solicitor they are telling me that E Flow has informed them that the letters have been sent. I don't know what the hell else I can do.

MOH

gar44 wrote: »

They have assured me that the letters have been sent and they have given my correct address. They have also stated that it is not there responsibility if I have not received the letter that they are only responsible for sending it and that my problem is with an post.

That seems a bit nonsensical. They're to cheap too pay for registered post, so they decide to just post stuff and leave it up to the recipient to prove they didn't receive it? Surely (note my complete legal ignorance here) they'd be laughed out of court if they tried to sue you on that basis? Especially given the well documented history of problems with their billing systems?

On the other hand, it'd cost you more than the 47 quid to defend yourself, so they're probably just trying to bully you into paying it.

Given that they started the nonsense, your two best options would seem to be Hagar's route, which makes perfect sense by the "logic" they're applying or (never ever thought I'd suggest this to anyone for any reason) .... Joooeee Duffy. I can't see how they could publicly defend this.

Or maybe pop an e-mail to pricewatch in the Irish Times, they often follow these kind of daft customer failure issues up with the company concerned, who usually resolve it for PRs sake

gar44

hey MOH thanks for the reply, I actually think I might try and look into the Irish times or some other medium that can help me shine a light on the subject, because to be honest It looks like I will have to pay but at least I could get this travesty out in the open and force them to address the issue correctly.

Kimia

Hi Gar, I'm having similar problems with them - it hasn't got to the stage where I owe them anything but they are not sending me any bills either and it's holding up payment for them, yet they refuse to remedy the situation after I address it over and over again.

Something needs to be done about these cowboys.

gar44

yea it really does, im hoping that after the two days my copies of the letters that they "SENT" wont show up so it will prove im not receiving them.

jap gt

my father had a van repossesed last march, then last october the van passed through the toll, we got a letter looking for payment, he rang and explained what had happend, they said it would be sorted, got two more letters and now a solicitors letter, looking for 200 quid, rang them again to explain and its still not sorted, what should he do

gar44

hey jap from my experience so far it looks like you will defo be paying some amount, its just a matter of how much. ring the solicitor and explain the situation to them.

jap gt

did that, they basically said that eflow would still follow him for the payment, he said van was no longer in his name and has the papers to prove it

gar44

I really am feeling your pain, there seems to be no talking to these people.

Kimia

Is there some sort of regulator that oversees Eflow?

Gallagher5

gar44 wrote: »

Hi Guys,

I'm wondering if anyone can offer me some much needed advice. I crossed the m50 toll on 6/12/2009 and missed payment (I am unregistered so I usually pay buy 8pm the next day). On the 22/02/2010 I received a letter from a solicitors stating that they are acting on behalf of the national road authority and I owe them €152.00. I rang the solicitors and explained that this is the first time I had been informed of any late fee at all and that I had never received a standard toll request for payment of the late fee.

The solicitor asked about the vehicle, when I had bought it and when it had been registered. I explained that I bought it in July 09 and I didn’t receive my change of ownership until around August.

The solicitor has since contacted me and told me that they are willing to accept €47.00 payment, due to the change ownership issue.

My major problem with paying this amount is that I NEVER received any standard toll requests and thus had no way of knowing I owed them money or of making payment as I need a number off the letter which I never received.

I've also contacted Eflow and they are assuring me that they have been sending me letters and the problem is that I am not receiving them and I should contact an Post. This is a bit of a joke to be honest as I receive every piece of mail that I'm due apart from the toll (I don’t see how this is possible).

Sorry to have such a long post but there was a lot to explain. If anyone could shed some light on what I should do I would be really grateful.

Are ya sure eflow have your correct address? It seems strange dat you received a letter from their solicitor but didn’t receive any of the four letters they sent you?

Anyway, I had similar probs last year and so decided to register. Since dat I havent had any problems so if I were you, id call em and register then you wont have to deal with this sort of thing. There actually quite nice on the phone.

I just checked the number online and its 1890 50 10 50. Hope you get it sorted anyway.

kwalsh000

Just to add my experience with them. We recieved 3 solictors letters for 152 E each for trips made. Never once did we recieve any letters from Eflow and the solicitors were saying thats not their problem.

I was talking with a supervisor who looked into it for me. They came back saying that it turns out I had paid 12E of 18E so I only have one payment for 152 due now.

So there was mistake from the start with Eflow in that I didpay but they didnt notice and sent off letters (apparently). I said this to the soilictors that if there were 2 mistakes already and no letters sent that stands to reason that the 3rd letter could be an issue aswell. They said no because I paid the wrong fine without a reference number apparently and it was my fault they didnt recieve payment? Strange one. Just wanted to let you all know to definatly follow it up. I am still not going to pay the final one without a fight. They made 2 mistakes already and no letters..so whos to say the thirds isnt a mistake too

PCPhoto

MOH wrote: »

That seems a bit nonsensical. They're to cheap too pay for registered post, so they decide to just post stuff and leave it up to the recipient to prove they didn't receive it? Surely (note my complete legal ignorance here) they'd be laughed out of court if they tried to sue you on that basis? Especially given the well documented history of problems with their billing systems?

On the other hand, it'd cost you more than the 47 quid to defend yourself, so they're probably just trying to bully you into paying it.

Given that they started the nonsense, your two best options would seem to be Hagar's route, which makes perfect sense by the "logic" they're applying or (never ever thought I'd suggest this to anyone for any reason) .... Joooeee Duffy. I can't see how they could publicly defend this.

Or maybe pop an e-mail to pricewatch in the Irish Times, they often follow these kind of daft customer failure issues up with the company concerned, who usually resolve it for PRs sake

turn up in court ....explain your version of events and let the judge decide ....it doesnt cost anything to defend yourself (except the time in court)

Zxc

A work colleague went through all of this last year when the toll thing was a huge problem. He used the toll bridge, paid the toll online, days later got fine notice in the post, endless phonecalls trying to explain and waiting for eflow to get back when they looked in to it. Before they did, he got the bigger fine notice. He was going demented trying to say he'd paid.
Eventually, in frustration he wrote to someone high up in eflow or the National Roads Authority, I can't remember which, with a cheque for the initial toll and said, here, take it, I'm not paying any more or dealing with any more letters.
Some time later he got a letter back saying it was sorted.
He'll be amazed to hear the same rubbish is still going on.

GerardKeating

Zxc wrote: »

A work colleague went through all of this last year when the toll thing was a huge problem. He used the toll bridge, paid the toll online, days later got fine notice in the post, endless phonecalls trying to explain and waiting for eflow to get back when they looked in to it. Before they did, he got the bigger fine notice. He was going demented trying to say he'd paid.
Eventually, in frustration he wrote to someone high up in eflow or the National Roads Authority, I can't remember which, with a cheque for the initial toll and said, here, take it, I'm not paying any more or dealing with any more letters.
Some time later he got a letter back saying it was sorted.
He'll be amazed to hear the same rubbish is still going on.

I had this with this, i would fill in the web form, giving details of how and when it was paid., submit it, and they would come back asking for the very same info that i had already sent.

They i noticed, after pressing submit on the web contact form, if one clicked back, the details very still filled in and one could press submit again.

After several experiments (ok i was bored and angry with them) i figured that it only works about 20/30 times in a row before the the forms clears properly, and one has to fill in the form again.

Shelflife

Im at a loss to see how not recieving an official notice/bill that you are not really expecting is your problem/fault.

also if eflow have have posted the letter then the contract is betweem them and an post , it has nothing to do at all with the intended receipient

Foxymona

I have started a petition against them and would appreciate it if you could take the time to sign it.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/eflow/

Foxymona

I have started a petition against them and would appreciate it if you could take the time to sign it.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/eflow/

gar44

Foxymona wrote: »

I have started a petition against them and would appreciate it if you could take the time to sign it.

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/eflow/

Signed with pleasure

dudara

@ Foxymona

Please do not post more than once on a given topic in a forum

dudara