Agent trying to keep some of my money - can they?

Zascar

I just moved out of an apartment a few weeks ago. I moved out first as I was going on holidays, and my flatmate moved out a week after me. He found some stuff of mine that I had accidentally left behind, a duvet, a pillow and a plant. Instead of taking it with him, he left them there. When I got back from holidays I went to collect them - but they had already been removed from the apartment.

I was awaiting a refund of my deposit back but the letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit. She said that 'You left some of your stuff there. We had to get someone to remove it. Because of this the tenant could not move in for 3 days, and because of this the landlord lost money, so we are charging you.”

I think this is ridiculous. It’s not like a left a whole loads of stuff behind - you could carry everything that was left in your arms, and even if they threw it out I would not have cared really, and old duvet, pillows and a plant. They just got the security guard to go in and move it to their office, a 5 minute job.

Do you think I have recourse here, should I fight it and how would I best go about doing this?
Thanks

Xiney

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills



Since leaving stuff behind does not fall into those categories, they are not entitled to retain any part of your deposit for that reason.

Let them know this and tell them that if they do not return the full amount of your deposit you will be contacting threshold and the PRTB.

Agent J

3 days delay because of some stuff?

The Agent is trying to pull a fast one.

Are you PRTB registered? You should have gotten a letter about it yourself.

If not then ask the agent this and remind them that it is illegal to not have regisitered. Tell them you want your 100 euro back or you will report the landlord.

Then report them for non registration anyway. Too many landlords getting away with it.



If they are then submit a complaint.

Fiii

I think it is such a disgrace what landlords/ agencies are trying to pull these days regarding peoples deposits.
Myself and my 2 old housemates are currently waiting for the return of over €1,200 of our deposit for an apartment we moved out of last Oct!
We were told numerous times it had been paid into our bank account. It had not. After 2months of waiting for it to be sorted, he suddenly stopped replying to phonecalls/ emails.
I told the landlord that I was contacting the PRTB and he then replied with malicious threats...in writing!
We left the place spotless, yet he is claiming all sorts (that he needed to get a new carpet etc...we have pics to prove the condition of the apartment when we left). Fun times.

We contacted Threshold and they have been a huge help. You should def contact them and ask their advise. They might even contact the agency on your behalf. If they do, the agency might cop on and simply give the money back (fingers crossed!).
If not, do go down the PRTB route. More of these landlords need to realise the they cannot get away with this!

Best of luck OP.

F

Zascar

Thanks guys

Yes I was registered with the PRTB. Is it possible to call them and talk to someone? I just want to see exactly where I stand before I go back to the landlord.

Actually re the cleaning, we gave it a massive clean before we left, my flatmate is a clean freak and spent hours on it, but they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.

If I email my agent and they still refuse, what should I do then?

Fiii

PRTB don't really have a department for information, but try giving Threshold a call and they will give you an info you need.
http://www.threshold.ie/

Really does sounds like they are trying to pull a fast one.

Agent J

350 for cleaners?

Scam. Scam and once more Scam.

Did you take pictures of the place before you left? Note that for next time because it makes your position water tight.

I had an estate agent try this one on me before. Took me 18 months through the PRTB but i got my money back.

ztoical

Zascar wrote: »

they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.?

they need to provide you with some sort of receipt for the cleaning if they are taking it out of your deposit.

Doop

ztoical wrote: »

they need to provide you with some sort of receipt for the cleaning if they are taking it out of your deposit.

+1 on the receipt, which they have to show you (its your money they spent and you are entitled to see how it was spent)

Zascar

Wrote to them this morning, they are playing hardball. What to do now?

Zascar

They sent me the receipt just now for the cleaning but all it says is €350 for cleaning - and no date or reference to our apartment.

Regardless, they are not backing down. Can anyone tell me what is the procedure? I;ve downloaded the form and I will fill it in and send it off, but what happens then?

Ste.phen

You may not hear anything for months but it'll eventually go to an arbitration hearing where they're asked to justify the deductions from the deposit. It would help your case a lot if you had photographic proof that the place was fine

Dymo

letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit.

receipt just now for the cleaning but all it says is €350 for cleaning

How much are they deducting from the deposit?

Zascar

They are not charging us for the cleaning - she's just saying that it cost €350. I still think this is ridiculous as my flatmate spent hours cleaning it and I have no doubt it was absolutely spotless as he was meticulous about cleanliness.

They are taking €100 out of the deposit because the tenants could not move in for a further 3 days because of my 4 items left in one of the rooms. Pffft. The apartment was vacant a week before they even came to inspect it.

I know out of principle I'd like to get these guys but I don't know if its worth the hassle taking months with the PRTB...

shoegirl

Zascar wrote: »

Actually re the cleaning, we gave it a massive clean before we left, my flatmate is a clean freak and spent hours on it, but they said they had to get professional cleaners in and it cost €350 - which is obviously bull****.

There is one agency in Cork city which puts a clause in every tenants lease saying they deduct a charge of 50 euros for "cleaning."
You want to see the filthy carpets they let their flats out with, nevermind the state of exterior areas. What happens if the charges are written into the leases as signed by the tenant(s)?

(In fairness, a friend of mine bought a house a few years ago and discovered the scumbag tenant of the previous owner had left junk all over the garden and attic - childrens toys etc. Not enough to fill a skip, but half a days gathering and a trip to the dump).

murphym7

I don't want to be the party pooper here but they have every right to keep your €100 for leaving your stuff behind. In fact it could have been more - they could have hired a mini skip to get rid of your stuff.

I am playing devils advocate here a bit but why should a landord have to worry about getting rid of your junk that you left behind. I doubt you're the first who has left their crap behind them.

Oh and by the way the same happned me - I lost a portion of a deposit years ago for the same reason as that - leaving crap behind us that a dumbass buddy didn't get rid of.

The cleaning bill is outrageous though.

Xiney

Play hardball back.

Did you get a signed inventory when you moved out stating that there was no damage?

If so you're golden.

Here is the correspondence (email) I sent to our landlord when they tried to retain 100 euro for some bogus reason:

Hi xxxx,

Just to reiterate the conversation we just had on the telephone, the deposit can only be retained in whole or in part for rent/bills unpaid or for damage (and I have already received confirmation from you that there is none)

There was no agreement that I would leave 100 euro for the gas.

Please forward on the cheque ASAP as it has now been over a month since we moved out of the apartment.

Thank you,

[Xiney]

Doop

Zascar wrote: »

I was awaiting a refund of my deposit back but the letting agent came back to me today, saying they have deducted €100 from my deposit. She said that 'You left some of your stuff there. We had to get someone to remove it. Because of this the tenant could not move in for 3 days, and because of this the landlord lost money, so we are charging you.”

I think this is ridiculous. It’s not like a left a whole loads of stuff behind - you could carry everything that was left in your arms, and even if they threw it out I would not have cared really, and old duvet, pillows and a plant. They just got the security guard to go in and move it to their office, a 5 minute job.

Do you think I have recourse here, should I fight it and how would I best go about doing this?
Thanks

Not trying to be picky here, but there is a point that should be raised imo. You left stuff behind (albeit a small amount of stuff). Somone has to move it to the bins... granted not a big job... but whoes going to do it? Its not the agents job to carry stuff out to the bins, the landlord is obv not that involved as he has the agent looking after it. So they have to find someone to do it and pay them. Hence the 100euro to the security gaurd.

I know from managing properties that its really difficult to get someone out to do a small job, and they always work out way more expensive than anyone feels its worth, its catch 22 sort of, any handyman / tradesman will charge 70euro for a call out... then yeah maybe 10mins work ... 30euro, theres 100euro ... seems dumb I agree... but someone has to do it... and get paid for it..

just my 2cents!

Del2005

Doop wrote: »

Not trying to be picky here, but there is a point that should be raised imo. You left stuff behind (albeit a small amount of stuff). Somone has to move it to the bins... granted not a big job... but whoes going to do it? Its not the agents job to carry stuff out to the bins, the landlord is obv not that involved as he has the agent looking after it. So they have to find someone to do it and pay them. Hence the 100euro to the security gaurd.

I know from managing properties that its really difficult to get someone out to do a small job, and they always work out way more expensive than anyone feels its worth, its catch 22 sort of, any handyman / tradesman will charge 70euro for a call out... then yeah maybe 10mins work ... 30euro, theres 100euro ... seems dumb I agree... but someone has to do it... and get paid for it..

just my 2cents!

Xiney wrote: »

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills

Seems pretty clear to me that they can't keep the money as there is non of the above just junk. If they want to keep €100 from the deposit then they should have it in the lease that any "junk" to be removed after will cost €x.

Why can't you inform the landlord that there's still junk in the apartment and let them sort it out instead of hiring someone off your own bat. Or even contact the old tenant and tell them something is left behind. It seems like a nice scam for an agent to pick up and nice little €100.

mr_happy

On Google "landlord deposit dispute" gets 564,000 hits.

Its a second income for some people.

Its disgusting to think that you look after a place and end up with someone trying to do you at the end of it.

I hope you get your money back.

Doop

Del2005 wrote: »

Seems pretty clear to me that they can't keep the money as there is non of the above just junk. If they want to keep €100 from the deposit then they should have it in the lease that any "junk" to be removed after will cost €x.

Why can't you inform the landlord that there's still junk in the apartment and let them sort it out instead of hiring someone off your own bat. Or even contact the old tenant and tell them something is left behind. It seems like a nice scam for an agent to pick up and nice little €100.

It doesnt say anything about cleaning in that list either so is that covered???? have you ever read a lease? Most will state the property has to be returned in the same condition it was made available (ie.. no "junk")

The landlord pays an agent to manage his property... so an agent is hardly going to ring and ask the landlord to clear out the place is he? cue 1 lost client. They will run it past the landlord to inform them but that wll be it.

Nice Scam ???.. completely illigeal, would you risk your job for a 100euro ???

20goto10

Xiney wrote: »

Your deposit can only be retained for the following:

- damage
- rent arrears
- unpaid bills



Since leaving stuff behind does not fall into those categories, they are not entitled to retain any part of your deposit for that reason.

Let them know this and tell them that if they do not return the full amount of your deposit you will be contacting threshold and the PRTB.

I think it is to cover any expenses incurred whatever they may be. As such, the landlord was quite within his right to take the expenses out of the deposit. The OP should ask to see a receipt for the removal man. It sounds like a bit much a) getting a man in to remove a duvet and pillow and b) that it would take 3 days. You could use this as a basis for getting your full deposit back but if they do produce a receipt then I don't see you have an argument tbh.

She Devil

We got €200 deducted from our deposit at the of moving out because they wanted to make the place "fit" for the next tenant, I scrubbed that place on my hands and knees before I moved out, it was shining!!
We had been in there for two years, and a further €60 because we left food in the freezer which they had to get rid of. Food was a small container of soup and frozen sausages!!!!!!!!

We didnt pursue it further because we were sick of them at the time, but I wish we had! Its scandelous that they can do this! I think its a disgrace!!

Xiney

20goto10 wrote: »

I think it is to cover any expenses incurred whatever they may be. As such, the landlord was quite within his right to take the expenses out of the deposit. The OP should ask to see a receipt for the removal man. It sounds like a bit much a) getting a man in to remove a duvet and pillow and b) that it would take 3 days. You could use this as a basis for getting your full deposit back but if they do produce a receipt then I don't see you have an argument tbh.

No, the law is very clear.

The deposit can not be used for cleaning, readvertising the property, or other "expenses" other than the three I've mentioned.

Renting out properties is a business. Your customers pay rent, and you have business expenses. You don't get to just watch the money roll in and do no work or make no investment.

20goto10

Xiney wrote: »

No, the law is very clear.

The deposit can not be used for cleaning, readvertising the property, or other "expenses" other than the three I've mentioned.

Renting out properties is a business. Your customers pay rent, and you have business expenses. You don't get to just watch the money roll in and do no work or make no investment.

I'm aware its a business. I think you're over complicating the issue here. The OP (or ops house mate) left sh!t behind which had to be cleaned up. Why should the landlord pay to clean up the tenants sh!t? What law are you talking about btw? If its very clear then post it so we can all have a goo.

Zascar

In fairness it was hardly "Cleaning up" - it was one armfulls full of stuff that someone could pikc up and move or throw away in 3 minutes

testicle

20goto10 wrote: »

I'm aware its a business. I think you're over complicating the issue here. The OP (or ops house mate) left sh!t behind which had to be cleaned up. Why should the landlord pay to clean up the tenants sh!t? What law are you talking about btw? If its very clear then post it so we can all have a goo.

Point 8. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=244

Section under Deposits - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/landlords_rights_and_obligations

If you want it in legal mumbo-jumbo, here's the Act - http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf - Part 2, Section 12, Subsection 4 (a)

Zascar

testicle wrote: »

Point 8. http://www.threshold.ie/page.asp?menu=70&page=244

Section under Deposits - http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/housing/renting-a-home/landlords_rights_and_obligations

Brilliant thanks testicle.

Do you think its worth filling in the form for the PRTB? The form is huge and I've heard stories of having to wait months before anything happens. It's €100 and there is a fee of €25 - however it's the principle - but it has also cause a rift between me and my flatmate which I really could have done without

murphym7

Zascar wrote: »

In fairness it was hardly "Cleaning up" - it was one armfulls full of stuff that someone could pikc up and move or throw away in 3 minutes

Sorry now Zascar, it doesn't matter if it was an armfull of stuff or a skip full of stuff, it should not have been left there. Also you make it sound like its a breeze "pick up and just chuck it away" fair enough - who to pick it up? Where would they chuck it exactly? Use their own private bin's that they pay for? Thats hardly fair. Lump it into the car and bring to the dump? Not fair either, their private car + petrol + dump charges + effort. As I said you were lucky its just 100.
To be honest they were in their rights to hire a mini skip - they don't need to worry about the cheapest way to get rid of your crap - they just need to worry about getting rid of it. As I said before you admit you left crap behind = no leg to stand on. Stop upsetting yourself.

Xiney

have you read the rest of the thread?

cleaning is not something the landlord can take money out of the deposit for.

gimme5minutes

Xiney wrote: »

have you read the rest of the thread?

cleaning is not something the landlord can take money out of the deposit for.

So if you left 15 big black bin bags full of rubbish in the kitchen when you vacated a rented apartment the landlord can not deduct from the deposit for the disposal of this rubbish?

Merch

I'd have to look over the details of the act and all the information, but Im inclined to think that if it is left not as it was found (excluding reasonable wear and tear) then why should the landlord/agent have to pay to return it to that original condition (excluding reasonable wear and tear)

Some people have a different definition of what clean is. If a duvet and whatever was all that was left behind it seems a bit unreasonable, but that is their business, I'd hardly expect them to go around cleaning up after every tenant,

on the other hand sometimes tenants get apartments/house that are in a shocking state and then are unfairly and unreasonably deducted to return them to a condition to which they never received them in.

there are good tenants and good landlords, there are more bad tenants and bad landlords then that first category

Xiney

gimme5minutes wrote: »

So if you left 15 big black bin bags full of rubbish in the kitchen when you vacated a rented apartment the landlord can not deduct from the deposit for the disposal of this rubbish?

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

Merch

Xiney wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

If that went to some kind of arbitration I seriously doubt that it would be seen like that.
If either the tenant or landlord/agent was seen to be unreasonable it wouldn't be looked upon favourably.
While tenants have rights, there have obligations also, in fact I think the tenants have more obligations if I recall the act correctly, this doesn't mean landlords or their agents can get away with anything, but if they have reasonable justification they can make deductions, deductions have to be itemised.
The reality is someone had to move this persons duvet (although the cost sounds a bit excessive) personally if I was the next tenant I wouldn't really want to even have to touch it.

Merch

I'm not taking either side, but a tenant shouldn't give a landlord/agent an excuse to have to make deductions, I agree that many will try deduct unreasonably from a deposit, but if the agent has to spend time organising getting someone to remove a prior tenants belongings then that takes time, time which if they are operating a business they will say they have to charge for. Like a previous poster said the cost for doing even the smallest jobs are out of proportion to what it would cost the tenant to do this themself.
On another note if I was the new tenant, I really dont want the previous tenant leaving their stuff behind or coming knocking looking for things they should have taken. (if they had items/mail I'd expect them to get that off the agent, whom I assume will charge for his/her time) I was in a place before where the previous tenant kept returning for their mail, I asked them why they didn't either get it diverted or contact the businesses that were posting their bills, they just said they never got around to it, the next time they called I told them not only not to call, but not to bother me, their post would be in the bin, need less to say they got their post diverted as I received only a few of their bills, which they never called for.

Tenants obligations
(ii) compliance with section 16(f) and the amount of the
costs that would be incurred by the landlord, were
he or she to take them, in taking such steps as are
reasonable for the purposes of restoring the dwelling
to the condition mentioned in section 16(f) is equal
to or greater than the amount of the deposit,

No u cant leave ten bags of your stuff behind, you cant leave one.

(f) not do any act that would cause a deterioration in the condition
the dwelling was in at the commencement of the
tenancy, but there shall be disregarded, in determining
whether this obligation has been complied with at a particular
time, any deterioration in that condition owing to
normal wear and tear, that is to say wear and tear that is
normal having regard to—

If I was new tenant and the previous tenant left ten bags, then I wouldn't consider it habitable (ie I dont know what is in those bags and it could be considered a potential health risk), by the same token a tenant is giving grounds for a landlord/agent to make deductions even if they leave one bag. All the agent has to say would be, we're not questioning the hygiene of the tenant but it is not unreasonable for us to take precautions in removing an item of bedding that the previous tenant left behind, as a new tenant I dont know who the previous guy/girl is and I dont want to go near their duvet, jocks, socks or whatever, so why would the agent?

(g) if paragraph (f) is not complied with, take such steps as the
landlord may reasonably require to be taken for the purpose
of restoring the dwelling to the condition mentioned
in paragraph (f) or to defray any costs incurred by the
landlord in his or her taking such steps as are reasonable
for that purpose,

So if you arrived and the previous tenant left 1 or 10 bags you can do the same, but if you arrived and there wasnt 1 or 10 bags then no you cant leave your stuff behind

Xiney

I`m pretty sure the landlord would need time stamped photos to prove that the condition of the apartment was better when the tenant moved in, except in extreme cases. (We`ve all been to one of THOSE apartments, where you wonder how the inhabitants have not succumbed to some disease long eradicated by modern sanitation)

I sincerely doubt that any judge would award a landlord money for the removal of a duvet and four pillows. That is easily done (in 2 minutes) by either the landlord or the agent in the course of a final inspection.

For 100 euro I`d be fighting it.

Merch

Maybe not or maybe the time spent chasing the tenant and the time involved are what it cost to pay someone to do this?

The OP said they went on holidays and expected their house mate to pick up after them? and they seem to expect the agent to do the same, like another poster said, these things cost are out of proportion to what it actually costs the tenant to do themselves (ie nothing)

I'm am not say it is or is not just, but from my reading of the act the property should be left as it was found, I wouldnt really want to touch someone elses duvet,clothes etc If you're doing that on a regular basis how much is that in wasted time, time is money therefore the person that caused it pays for it.

I agree there are lots of landlords/agents skimming a bit but there also tenants that dont seem to understand their own obligations either

shoegirl

Xiney wrote: »

As far as I'm aware, that's the case.

I'm not saying it's right.

I think if there is a clause in the lease automatically charging for "cleaning" or applying a deduction in the event of damage or leaving rubbish behind, it may be possible to do it, but it would be open to dispute.

Curious actually as my landlady has a clause that automatically steals 50 euros of tenants deposits for "cleaning" which given the filth of the carpet when I moved in was a bit rich. Not sure if they always do that though. In fairness most of the other tenants in the house left a right muck.

Jo King

If a tenant leaves things behind, they haven't vacated the accommodation. There was a court case on this point years ago regarding the requirement of a vendor to give up vacant possession. The tenant can be charged rent until the rubbish is removed.

happymondays

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

20goto10

testicle wrote: »

If you want it in legal mumbo-jumbo, here's the Act - http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/acts/2004/a2704.pdf - Part 2, Section 12, Subsection 4 (a)

this refers to section 16 (f) which states the apartment must be returned in the same condition taking into account normal wear and tear. imo, leaving sh!t behind breaches this condition. There are also other laws which protect the Landlord. Dumping is actually a criminal offence. Also, as someone pointed out this is a business and as a business the landlord is perfectly entitled to bill for expenses incurred. Now maybe it shouldn't come out of the deposit, but lets be realistic here. It's not like he can send the tenant an invoice. As with any laws, a bit of common sense should be applied.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

They can bring you to court and you will undoubtedly lose.

Besides all this, the problem could have easily been avoided if the landlords agent hand handled the move out properly. He should have been there at the apartment as the tenant is moving out, giving it one last look over. If something is out of place the issue can be addressed face to face. Once everyone is happy, tenant hands over keys and landlord/agent hands back the deposit.

Maybe the landlord should be billing the agent, not the tenant?

happymondays

20goto10 wrote: »

They can bring you to court and you will undoubtedly lose.

in the unlikely even they would bring you to court what would they
do you for? failure to pay a months rent? fine if they gets the months
rent they will have pay back the deposit so what are they going to gain?
are they really going to go to the bother??
(unless they're was bills,cleaning,damage to pay for)

has anyone here actually been brought to court for this?



"Besides all this, the problem could have easily been avoided if the landlords agent hand handled the move out properly. He should have been there at the apartment as the tenant is moving out, giving it one last look over. If something is out of place the issue can be addressed face to face. Once everyone is happy, tenant hands over keys and landlord/agent hands back the deposit"


I agree with this, its so much easier if the landlord can be met on the final day, everything agreed on and sorted.
Problem is estate agents dont normally do this, they expect the keys back and they will inspect at thier leisure and then keep half your deposit for whatever they want. At that stage you've no option but to have wait months for the PRTB to sort it.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

in the unlikely even they would bring you to court what would they
do you for? failure to pay a months rent? fine if they gets the months
rent they will have pay back the deposit so what are they going to gain?
are they really going to go to the bother??
(unless they're was bills,cleaning,damage to pay for)

Why is it an unlikely event? Tenat refuses to pay his last months rent and expects to live in someone elses house with a smug grin on his face thinking he's smart? It's a clean cut case, he will lose.

Not to mention you will not get a reference for your next tenancy. If you're young you can get away with saying its your first tenancy but someone in their 30's/40's with no reference from previous tenancy? That's going to make life difficult for yourself.

how about instead of sticking it to the man, tenants take care of their rented accomodation, respect other peoples property, keep it clean and don't live sh!t behind. Whould that not be a whole lot easier?

happymondays

20goto10 wrote: »

Why is it an unlikely event? Tenat refuses to pay his last months rent and expects to live in someone elses house with a smug grin on his face thinking he's smart? It's a clean cut case, he will lose.

Not to mention you will not get a reference for your next tenancy. If you're young you can get away with saying its your first tenancy but someone in their 30's/40's with no reference from previous tenancy? That's going to make life difficult for yourself.

how about instead of sticking it to the man, tenants take care of their rented accomodation, respect other peoples property, keep it clean and don't live sh!t behind. Whould that not be a whole lot easier?

i though it fairly obvious from my previous post but ill spell it out again!.
its an unlikely event becuase the agent/landlord has noting much to gain from it. as i already said the deposit will cover the last months rent so the rent is being paid. no one is out of pocket. (persuming there's no damage done/bills left to be paid etc).

A reference is worthless, anyone could get 5 different people to make up a reference tomorrow if one was needed.

20goto10

happymondays wrote: »

i though it fairly obvious from my previous post but ill spell it out again!.
its an unlikely event becuase the agent/landlord has noting much to gain from it. as i already said the deposit will cover the last months rent so the rent is being paid. no one is out of pocket. (persuming there's no damage done/bills left to be paid etc).

A reference is worthless, anyone could get 5 different people to make up a reference tomorrow if one was needed.

The problem is it immediately sets alarm bells for the Landlord. Why is the tenant so worried about losing the deposit? In fact, its pretty much an admission of guilt. I've done something and I know you're going to keep my deposit because of it so fcuk you, stick it to the man, I'm going to refuse to pay my last months rent haha what you going to do about it now! It's really not an nice way to go about things and if you think you're being clever about things then you can think again because its actually a very stupid thing to do.

Merch

happymondays wrote: »

All this begs the question is the tenant better off just not paying the
last months rent and using the deposit for that.
this all persumes of course that the tenant makes sure the place is in
the same condition that it was recived in and all bills are paid.

its seems that some landlords (and espically estate agents) just make
stuff up to hold onto some deposits no matter how much the place is cleaned or what state its left in. I know ive been stung like this before and plenty others have too.

if estate agents want to play hard ball why not take a preemtive strike
and just not pay the last months rent. what action can they take?
while i know its not 'legal' its not as if they will lose any money so will
they bother chasing you? (again as long as the place is spotless and bills paid)

This all about rights, tenants and landlords and obligations of both
It is illegal to "keep" the last months rent, if that went to court, I think something like that could be brought in the small claims court for €6 then the tenant would not have a leg to stand on

Equally if a tenant has had what they consider unreasonable deductions made from their deposit they should follow it up with the PRTB, and make this known to the agent/landlord (perhaps then they will consider it not worthwhile to make a deduction even if it is justified)

One side or the other cannot bang on about rights if you then say, I will do something illegal to right a wrong, there is a process for it, which generally tenants come out on toip, so there is no point compounding a bad situation by commiting what is an offence. You wont have a leg to stand on and it makes good tenants look bad.

gimme5minutes

20goto10 wrote: »

The problem is it immediately sets alarm bells for the Landlord. Why is the tenant so worried about losing the deposit? In fact, its pretty much an admission of guilt. I've done something and I know you're going to keep my deposit because of it so fcuk you, stick it to the man, I'm going to refuse to pay my last months rent haha what you going to do about it now! It's really not an nice way to go about things and if you think you're being clever about things then you can think again because its actually a very stupid thing to do.

How is using your deposit to cover your final month's rent stupid? It seems like a very practical plan to me and it's what I plan to do when I leave my current accomodation. The amount of people getting stung for deposits these days is unreal, I have two cousins who have been ripped off by landlords in the last year alone. Loads of people on here have also been stung - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/search.php?searchid=10864188

Many landlords seem to be under the impression that they own your deposit as it has been sitting in their accounts so long and are very reluctant to give it back to you.

Merch

Its illegal to withold rent, if you withold it you are breaking the law

If you are witholding it on the assumption you will not get your deposit back, then you are presuming someone will do some wrong to you before it has happened.

If a landlord witholds any amount of a deposit you are entitled to an itemised breakdown of the deductions, if you are unhappy with that you can take it to the prtb, if they are not reg'd then they wont get a look in and will certainly lose, if they are then they will need to have good proof that the deductions are valid, anyone that does not follow that route and only complains they have been stung is not utilising the system and the law fully.

If they are not reg'd or paying tax then you have them over a barrel, the tenant has the advantage

complaining about being stung but not following it up and then saying I will do something, probably viewed as being worse in the eyes of the law (witholding rent/money due) in advance of a landlord doing anything will not leave you with a leg to stand on and maybe a judgement to boot

happymondays

Merch wrote: »

Its illegal to withold rent, if you withold it you are breaking the law

If you are witholding it on the assumption you will not get your deposit back, then you are presuming someone will do some wrong to you before it has happened.

If a landlord witholds any amount of a deposit you are entitled to an itemised breakdown of the deductions, if you are unhappy with that you can take it to the prtb, if they are not reg'd then they wont get a look in and will certainly lose, if they are then they will need to have good proof that the deductions are valid, anyone that does not follow that route and only complains they have been stung is not utilising the system and the law fully.

If they are not reg'd or paying tax then you have them over a barrel, the tenant has the advantage

complaining about being stung but not following it up and then saying I will do something, probably viewed as being worse in the eyes of the law (witholding rent/money due) in advance of a landlord doing anything will not leave you with a leg to stand on and maybe a judgement to boot

thats all fine but how long will it take to get sorted by the PRTB?
is it reasonable for a tenant to have to wait months and months for a deposit back? bearing in mind a deposit will have to be paid in the next accomodation
also so the tenant could is out of pocket of a 1000 - 2000 euro for gods know how long?

noone has still answered yet, if it goes a court and the tenant loses would the judgement just be that the tenant has to pay the last months rent? if it is then it would be worth it.

astrofool

I don't get why people don't hand over the keys face to face when leaving an apartment, it makes all the post cleaning/crap left behind stuff moot.

They likely got the place professionally cleaned before the next tenants moved in, on top of the cleaning already done. This can not be taken from deposit if the tenant has already left the place livable. The OP also said that this was not taken from the deposit, it sounds more like they are using it as a threat for pursuing the €100.