SNCF plunges itself into race row over "Romanian" posters.

Run_to_da_hills

SNCF The French National railway company put up the 'safety information' signs on trains running on Midi-Pryrenees lines in the south west of the country following a spate of thefts.

Translated into English, it reads: 'Over the past few weeks there have been worries with Romanians. ‘Indeed, a number of bag thefts have been noted

We ask you to re-double your vigilance. Besides, all sightings of Romanians must be reported.'

I thought that the Romanians were innocent and that it was the Roma that were responsible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253130/Railway-race-row-SNCF-displays-posters-warning-passengers-report-sightings-Romanians-thefts.html


Notification de SNCF en français

Biggins

The poster does not bode well for saying that progressive, fair and accurate thinking is alive in France.
If true, they have let only themselves down in this area.

prinz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Besides, all sightings of Romanians must be reported.'

They mistranslated the French here. No suprise there then. What it actually tries to say is besides that, that all the facts of the Romanians/all incidents involving Romanians should be reported to the SNCF". Slightly less controversial. Nothing about reporting all sightings. :rolleyes:

Bottle_of_Smoke

prinz wrote: »

They mistranslated the French here. No suprise there then. What it actually tries to say is besides that, that all the facts of the Romanians/all incidents involving Romanians should be reported to the SNCF". Slightly less controversial. Nothing about reporting all sightings. :rolleyes:

Even still, should it not just be "all incidents of theft/pickpocketing should be reported to SNCF"

I do understand why they did it though. An American/Australian/African etc tourist is unlikely to know romas are dodgey as f*ck and to watch them.

prinz

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Even still, should it not just be "all incidents of theft/pickpocketing should be reported to SNCF"

True, but there are more than likely those signs everywhere as it is, just like there are on Dublin Bus etc. this is probably a response/warning against a specific gang/threat... "In recent weeks there have been a number of incidents involving Romanians..." seems harmless enough tbh.

Cookie_Monster

The French tell it like it is generally. same reason they stand up to religious nonsense and ban all the crosses and head scarves and other religious crap from schools.

If most of the thefts are due to Romanians then say it like it is and tell people to be wary of them, simples

prinz

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The French tell it like it is generally.

+1. Simple as. Guaranteed this wasn't a "race row" in France. People just coudln't be bothered, as evidenced by the 'suprisingly few numbers of complaints'.

wasper

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

SNCF The French National railway company put up the 'safety information' signs on trains running on Midi-Pryrenees lines in the south west of the country following a spate of thefts.

Translated into English, it reads: 'Over the past few weeks there have been worries with Romanians. ‘Indeed, a number of bag thefts have been noted

We ask you to re-double your vigilance. Besides, all sightings of Romanians must be reported.'

I thought that the Romanians were innocent and that it was the Roma that were responsible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253130/Railway-race-row-SNCF-displays-posters-warning-passengers-report-sightings-Romanians-thefts.html


Notification de SNCF en français

We should have signs here in Ireland; Attention Tourist business establishments that French tourist are the most cheap skate tourist & not to expect any spendings from this group.

genericguy

i love it. in france a spade is a spade, and a cnut is a cnut.

ejmaztec

It's ironic that Stratford upon Avon shop-keepers in Shakespeare country, would only allow French schoolkids into their shops two at a time, in an effort to cut down on the shop-lifting.

conorhal

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The French tell it like it is generally. same reason they stand up to religious nonsense and ban all the crosses and head scarves and other religious crap from schools.

If most of the thefts are due to Romanians then say it like it is and tell people to be wary of them, simples

100% agree. It's like the issue of racial profiling at the airport. Unplesent? Yes, but better than the joke that is hour long queues, as everybody from a small child to a pensioner gets treated as the same security threat and endures the same measures at airport security 'least we discriminate against any individual' :rolleyes:

The Roma gangs have become a serious problem on the trains in Europe and represent the majority of pick pockets so why not call a spade a spade and actually monitor and quantify the problem rather than everybody running scared from an accusation of racism and doing nothing about it at all or going about solving the problem in a non targeted ineffectual manner.
My folks just came back from Rome. On the train to the airport a guy was surrounded by roma standing about in a narrow carrage corridor and had his wallet lifted. He noticed what had happened and grabbed the girl responsible who went into hysterics screaming "my baby, my baby!". Cearly having seen it all before and being non-plussed by it he simply demanded "my wallet, my wallet".
She handed it over.
Here's the cherry on the pie however, a swarthy bloke in what looked like a uniform then demanded a mobile phone from a tourist to report the incident. You guessed it, the phone and inspector promptly dissapeared!

Chairman Meow

Maybe if the Roma stopped stealing sh!t this sort of thing wouldnt have to happen

Barracudaincork

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I thought that the Romanians were innocent and that it was the Roma that were responsible?

You are right, there is a difference, Romanian people are from Romania, while Romani are from varies areas of central and eastern europe.

pickarooney

prinz wrote: »

They mistranslated the French here. No suprise there then. What it actually tries to say is besides that, that all the facts of the Romanians/all incidents involving Romanians should be reported to the SNCF". Slightly less controversial. Nothing about reporting all sightings. :rolleyes:

The original French is garbage in the first place. "Tous les faits de roumains" means nothing.

pickarooney

genericguy wrote: »

i love it. in france a spade is a spade, and a cnut is a cnut.

In this case a spade is a hoe though.

Pittens

So the sign is wrong then? I am not PC but were there a sign in England warning against the Irish, because of beggary ( or theft) by travellers would we not complain.

Run_to_da_hills

Barracudaincork wrote: »

You are right, there is a difference, Romanian people are from Romania, while Romani are from varies areas of central and eastern europe.

A Mate of mine, Romanian national owns / runs a Motorcycle shop in Harolds X, totally distances himself from Roma. He would not be too impressed with this at all.

prinz

Pittens wrote: »

So the sign is wrong then? I am not PC but were there a sign in England warning against the Irish, because of beggary ( or theft) by travellers would we not complain.

Yes. Which is why when it was brought to the attention of SNCF they ordered it removed.

Barracudaincork

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A Mate of mine, Romanian national owns / runs a Motorcycle shop in Harolds X, totally distances himself from Roma. He would not be too impressed with this at all.

Same here I have Romanian friends and have sent a couple of them this link, it will be interesting to hear what they have to say back.

NothingMan

Pittens wrote: »

So the sign is wrong then? I am not PC but were there a sign in England warning against the Irish, because of beggary ( or theft) by travellers would we not complain.

We would complain and so should Romanians. It is the Roma gypsies that's the problem, not Romanians. Just like I wouldn't have a problem with a sign in England that said "Beware of Irish travellers (Pikeys)". Then I wouldn't complain.

Cuddlesworth

NothingMan wrote: »

We would complain and so should Romanians. It is the Roma gypsies that's the problem, not Romanians. Just like I wouldn't have a problem with a sign in England that said "Beware of Irish travellers (Pikeys)". Then I wouldn't complain.

You can be damm sure the pikeys would though.

NothingMan

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

You can be damm sure the pikeys would though.

Then they should stop causing all the trouble they're known for, Just like the Roma's there might be a nice non criminal one, but i've yet to see one.

Ponster

Just a couple of points to make :

1. The notice was on display for about 1 week and only on some trains in the center of France. They have since been removed and the SNCF has since apologized.


2. One guy was responsible for the posters and put them up without permission. He has since been put on forced leave until the matter has been investigated.


3. No complaints from the public were received.

Biggins

I'd have a lesser grievance to the poster if it was more accurate.
For a start, the Romanians are much different than the Roma's.
There seems to be some confusion in the poster itself over this.

sdanseo

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

SNCF The French National railway company put up the 'safety information' signs on trains running on Midi-Pryrenees lines in the south west of the country following a spate of thefts.

Translated into English, it reads: 'Over the past few weeks there have been worries with Romanians. ‘Indeed, a number of bag thefts have been noted

We ask you to re-double your vigilance. Besides, all sightings of Romanians must be reported.'

I thought that the Romanians were innocent and that it was the Roma that were responsible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253130/Railway-race-row-SNCF-displays-posters-warning-passengers-report-sightings-Romanians-thefts.html


Notification de SNCF en français

There's your problem there RTDH. Might as well quote a 2 year old.

oppenheimer1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

SNCF The French National railway company put up the 'safety information' signs on trains running on Midi-Pryrenees lines in the south west of the country following a spate of thefts.

Translated into English, it reads: 'Over the past few weeks there have been worries with Romanians. ‘Indeed, a number of bag thefts have been noted

We ask you to re-double your vigilance. Besides, all sightings of Romanians must be reported.'

I thought that the Romanians were innocent and that it was the Roma that were responsible?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1253130/Railway-race-row-SNCF-displays-posters-warning-passengers-report-sightings-Romanians-thefts.html


Notification de SNCF en français

I don't get it, people here constantly give out here about the views spouted by the Daily Mail and the like, but yet it must be the most quoted newspaper on this site.

Its things like this which annoy me about boards.

the_syco

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A Mate of mine, Romanian national owns / runs a Motorcycle shop in Harolds X, totally distances himself from Roma. He would not be too impressed with this at all.

The Romanians hate the Roma more than the Irish hate the travellers.

Biggins

the_syco wrote: »

The Romanians hate the Roma more than the Irish hate the travellers.

100% true. I have a few Romanians who are friends. They regard the Roma's and their questionable adopted lifestyle/antics as disgusting.

There is a world apart between the Romanians and the Roma.

bnt

If they meant Gypsies, then they would have said "Tsiganes" or "Roma", but "Roumains" means Romanians specifically. The Daily Telegraph has more details:

SNCF, which is government owned and makes profits of more than £1 billion a year, today said the poster should not have gone up."An internal inquiry is under way," said a spokesman for SNCF in the Mid-Pryrenees, the largest region of France.
"A local SNCF official put it up on certain local trains in the area after using this unfortunate language. We have alerted all SNCF officials in the area who are looking for the posters. They will be taken down immediately when found."
The spokesman said there had been few complaints about the poster, but that it was "unacceptable".

Anyone working at SNCF could have printed that out and stuck it up: someone who needs a lecture about how this represents his company and could tarnish its image.

Run_to_da_hills

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I don't get it, people here constantly give out here about the views spouted by the Daily Mail and the like, but yet it must be the most quoted newspaper on this site.

Its things like this which annoy me about boards.

If you do a Google News search you will find the subject identically covered by other media networks including the Telegraph and other foreign news agencies.

Big Nasty

Biggins wrote: »

100% true. I have a few Romanians who are friends. They regard the Roma's and their questionable adopted lifestyle/antics as disgusting.

There is a world apart between the Romanians and the Roma.

+1

Romanians here get an awful hard time because of the Roma connection. Romania (originally Dacia) was invaded by the Romans back in the day and has a very large influence on society, i.e language, dark hair and eyes, sallow skin and of course the name - Romania. Having spent a considerable amount of time in Romania the difference between Roma and Romanians is very clear.

Roma originated in south Asia and migrated all across the world, especially in Eastern Europe and Northern America. They are dark skinned gypsies, have their own culture and language. They tend to live in squats or shanty towns and would be close enough in culture to what we know as itinerants, in fact some are well known for their work with metals, similar enough to tinkers.

They are not Romanian and nor did they originate there - the only similarity is the name.

pickarooney

According to some reports a post office employee was suspected of sticking these up and public anger has been directed against him rather than the offending sticker.

A case of attack La Poste and not the poster.

walshb

They really can't be doing this, a disclaimer should have been added. "These figures are not completely accurate, but roughly 90 percent of the thieves are Romas."

oppenheimer1

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

If you do a Google News search you will find the subject identically covered by other media networks including the Telegraph and other foreign news agencies.

And yet it is always the Mail that is quoted...

Big Nasty

Another misinformed poster on the 'Beggars' thread:

Ronan Keating wrote: »

Them Romanians can feck away off. Sitting in wheelchairs pretending they have one leg next thing you see them get up and walk off wheeling the chair in front of them. It is a disgrace.

I'd give to my own people quicker. It's not racist. Them people should stay in their own countryies instead of rushing over here trying to get money off of us. They're scammers - the whole lot of them.

billymitchell

Ok, looks like the French made a bit of a cock up on the poster front. But just say they had actually said "Roma" instead of "Romanian", how would people here feel? And how would you feel if say Dublin Bus or Irish Rail decided to put up signs saying "No Roma allowed".
I for one would welcome it, I cannot stand the fookers!!!

Biggins

billymitchell wrote: »

Ok, looks like the French made a bit of a cock up on the poster front. But just say they had actually said "Roma" instead of "Romanian", how would people here feel? And how would you feel if say Dublin Bus or Irish Rail decided to put up signs saying "No Roma allowed".
I for one would welcome it, I cannot stand the fookers!!!

No, not "fookers" - ROMA!!! :pac:

IrishManSaipan

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

SNCF The French National railway company put up the 'safety information' signs on trains running on Midi-Pryrenees lines in the south west of the country following a spate of thefts.

Surely the Roma community in France could take the railway company to court?

Biggins

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Surely the Roma community in France could take the railway company to court?

Possible but as far as I know, the French legal system works on basis that a person is "guilty" of something till they can prove they are innocent.
Its unusual but that the way I was informed, they operate at court level.

IrishManSaipan

Biggins wrote: »

Possible but as far as I know, the French legal system works on basis that a person is "guilty" of something till they can prove they are innocent.
Its unusual but that the way I was informed, they operate at court level.

European Court of Human Rights?

Biggins

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

European Court of Human Rights?

Again, possible but can't seriously see them go that far.

Mike 1972

prinz wrote: »

They mistranslated the French here. No suprise there then. What it actually tries to say is besides that, that all the facts of the Romanians/all incidents involving Romanians should be reported to the SNCF".

Surely all "incidents" involving anybody should be reported to the SNCF ?

thetonynator

Damn french!!!

First Henry, and now this . . . .:D

IrishManSaipan

Biggins wrote: »

Again, possible but can't seriously see them go that far.

Oh, I am sure they would.

From the EU courts today.

A Somali mother-of-four is entitled to claim thousands of pounds in benefits because two of her children are attending UK schools, EU judges ruled today.
Nimco Hassan Ibrahim was denied housing assistance because she and her estranged husband - a Danish national - failed to qualify for residency rights.
She appealed the decision by Harrow Council in north-west London, claiming that as her children's 'primary carer' she should be allowed to stay on in Britain and qualify for state handouts.
Today the European Court of Justice directed the Britain's Appeal Court to find in her favour.
Enlarge Ruling: The European Court of Justice has said Nimco Hassan Ibrahim is entitled to benefits in the UK as she is the primary carer of the child of a migrant worker
It said that parents of children in school have the right of residence even where they cannot support themselves.
The ruling paves the way for Ms Ibrahim to claim thousands of pounds in benefits each month.

Biggins

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

Oh, I am sure they would.
From the EU courts today...

Wouldn't they have to prove that the poster and its contents was a state edict in order to have "cause"?
I'm very sure they have methods for legal redress but if they can't connect the legalities to those they feel is ultimately responsible, their case will fail at any number of stages.

OutlawPete

Those posters are a welcome mat compared to:

Pic

Catari Jaguar

Many of the Roma here are from Bulgaria.

Romanian's look fairer, not black haired & brown eyed in general like the Romani.

Half of my class last year were Romanian (gorgeous kids) and my dad was giving out about it. You'd swear they were sitting there with a mouthful of gold teeth playing accordian for pennies. :rolleyes:

It's the equivalent to saying "****ing English are all travellers..." because there are a handful of Irish travellers in the UK.

IrishManSaipan

Lil Kitten wrote: »

Many of the Roma here are from Bulgaria.....

And Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, and Hungary. Whats your point?

Run_to_da_hills

I was in Budapest last November and the city was crawling with Roma, the Hungarians also despised them.

IrishManSaipan

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I was in Budapest last November and the city was crawling with Roma, the Hungarians also despised them.

They dont seem to be flavour of the month over in Czech either.

When, ten years ago, hundreds of Czech Gypsies emigrated to Canada, the country tried to resist by establishing visa necessity. However, visa requirement was cancelled last year in November. And the number of Gypsy people heading towards the socially-focused state have increased rapidly again, Denik informed.

That wouldn’t be a problem, if they automatically didn’t ask for asylum. This threatens the no-visa state – in the contract is, the number of asylum seekers mustn’t be higher than 2% of the total number. Because since May, there was 449 requests from Roma families, and 2% maximum means 570 per year, it is possible Canada will re-establish visa requirement again.

http://www.abcprague.com/2008/07/21/czech-roma-people-heading-to-canada-again

The Canadian Embassy in Prague said on September 15 that if the number of Czech Sinti and Roma requesting political asylum does not decline, the Canadian government will re-impose visa requirements on Czech citizens; visas were dropped for Czechs in 1996. Some 1,000 Czech gypsies have arrived in Canada since TV Nova on August 6, 1997 aired a film that implied that refugee status and welfare benefits in Canada were almost guaranteed; about half have applied for asylum, including 370 in August. By the end of September, some 650 Czech gypsies had been placed in motels by Toronto's emergency housing service.

The film was produced with the help of Canadian lawyer George Kubes, who represents many of the Czech gypsies seeking asylum.

http://migration.ucdavis.edu/mn/more.php?id=1338_0_2_0

therewillbe

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

The French tell it like it is generally. same reason they stand up to religious nonsense and ban all the crosses and head scarves and other religious crap from schools.

If most of the thefts are due to Romanians then say it like it is and tell people to be wary of them, simples

I love the French.They tell it as it is. Viva la France.