Will Trevor Sargent be the next scalp?

Poly

Newstalk /Herald are reporting that Trevor Sargent tried to influence a Garda investigation in Balbriggan.
Can’t find any links to it yet.
This will be interesting. Could this and another stateside salvo from De Burca, sink the good ship Green?

Blazer

The Green ship has already sunk...
Come 2012 bar a few animal activists no one's going to vote for them.

Laminations

politics.ie/green-party/124396-trevor-sargent-hot-water-over-headed-notepaper-letter-garda.html

If it is true that he intervened to try and convince gardai to drop charges against a constituent then he needs to resign. I wonder where the herald got this info from? Anyone reckon FF passed it on?

gandalf

If this is true then its very serious. Will keep an eye on developments but it sounds like the media (with or without help) are now starting to chip away at the government in a methodical fashion.

Taxipete29

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/sargent-criticised-for-letter-to-garda-on-behalf-of-constituent-447417.html

mike65

Just listening to this on rte, looking to get a summons struck out, characters reference for the man against whom the summons was issued. Man prosecuted and found guilty anyway.

seamus

It seems like the same situation that cropped up a couple of years back where a FF TD sent letters looking for the early release (?) of a constituent of his from prison.

Highly inappropriate - TDs shouldn't ever be making representations to the judiciary/Gardai in this regard unless they've been invitied to do so.

Not illegal though, and it's rare that a TD steps down over "inappropriate" behaviour. Willie O'Dea only resigned as minister, he didn't give up his seat.

Sargent though has a bit more tact and personal honour, if anyone was to step down over something like this, it would be him.

mike65

The Bobby Molloy saga was just mentioned.

Liam Byrne

seamus wrote: »

Sargent though has a bit more tact and personal honour, if anyone was to step down over something like this, it would be him.

I dunno.....while he obeyed the words of his promise at the last general election, he didn't act on the spirit of it.

That might be "honourable", but it was misleading.

Jip

It's starting to sound very serious for him as the garda commissioner is looking for various reports from the gardai involved in the case and for the letters he sent, there's even been a mention of a criminal investigation into it.

He can hardy remain a minister after what happened with O'Dea, unless he can prove that it was someone in his office who did it without his knowledge until now.

seamus wrote: »

Highly inappropriate - TDs shouldn't ever be making representations to the judiciary/Gardai in this regard unless they've been invitied to do so.

Not illegal though,

RTE mentioned several points in which what he did can be deemed as illegal.

Biggins

He could have used ordinary paper like the rest of us, he could have said he was speaking for someone as just a private citizen.

Instead he spoke with a government voice, on government paper.
That hints towards political pressure or dropping a hint of something!
Its not good, not good at all and its this level of possible corruptive thinking that this country need to be rid of.

I wonder what miserable excuse he will come out spouting with? I suspect we won't have long to wait to hear.

flutered

was there not a rumour going around about a goverment minister giving a character reference for a convicted gang leader, who was supposed to get 3 years reduction in his sentence, after the repesentations, dunno if it was proven tho.

scargill

I think he has go. The Greens took the moral high ground when it came to Willie O'Dea. It looks like Trevor Sargent has strayed into a no go area (getting involved in criminal proceedings).

Unless he has a fantastic excuse he'll be gone by the end of today.

gandalf

One wonders if Dan will be on Twitter about this incident

Bottle_of_Smoke

Would like to hear more details on the case before deciding which way to go.

Its a shame if its true, always like Trevor Sargent, seems more like a real person than a politician than most.

Jip

There's an earlier thread on this down below.

Biggins

I genuinely getting tired of the now daily screw-ups of our politicians. All of them.
Seriously. What next?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Irish Times wrote:

Sargent denies case interference

Green Party Minister for State Trevor Sargent has rejected an allegation that he tried to influence gardaí to drop a prosecution against one of his constituents.

Mr Sargent is alleged to have sent several letters to gardaí investigating a complaint against the constituent.

The man at the centre of the allegation is understood to have been subsequently convicted of threatening and abusive behaviour and fined €500.

A spokeswoman for the Dublin North TD said today: “Trevor Sargent made representations on behalf of a constituent who came to him after he was assaulted.

“Having heard the circumstances of the case, Mr Sargent asked the local gardaí to look into the case, particularly as the constituent feared for his personal safety,” she said.

Garda Commissioner Fachtna Murphy has requested an urgent report regarding Mr Sargent's correspondence with gardaí about the prosecution from the head of Garda division which investigated the case.

Fine Gael justice spokesman Charlie Flanagan has called on Mr Sargent to give a “detailed explanation” of the matter.

Mr Flanagan said the circumstances of this case appear to show the minister acting in an "entirely inappropriate way".

“If the facts of the case are as they appear, his actions are such that he has sought to pervert the course of justice, which is a very serious matter for any minister to engage,” he said.

Doesn't sound very resignation-worthy to me.

The_Minister

Does anyone know where a transcript of the letter might be obtained?

The media have it, but has anyone published it in full?

skelliser

so the guy approached Sargent saying he was in fact the victim and is subsequently convicted as being the agressor. lol!
Great judge of character, Trevor, well done! Now do the honourable thing and resign

The_Minister

Charlie Flanagan of Fine Gael just said that you shouldn't interfere once a summons has been issued.

That implies it's ok to interfere before then...

mike65

From the statute book.

Prosecution of Offences Act, 1974:

Quote:6.—(1) ( a ) Subject to the provisions of this section it shall not be lawful to communicate with the Attorney General or an officer of the Attorney General, the Director or an officer of the Director the Acting Director, a member of the Garda Síochána or a solicitor who acts on behalf of the Attorney General in his official capacity for the Director in his official capacity, for the purpose of influencing making of a decision to withdraw or not to initiate criminal proceedings or any particular charge in criminal proceedings.

One suspects quite a few elected representatives have ignored the above down the years.

Sir Oxman

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Doesn't sound very resignation-worthy to me.

That's cos that Green blurb is spin.

Biggins

It's a tough one.
If he was representing a citizen, attempting to assist in seeing that justice be done, it might be commendable that he felt that way.
However the manner in the way he did it, might be construed to be a form of pressure that is not appreciated by certain quarters and that is understandable too.

A complete sacking offence - I don't know! A good ticking off (which I'm sure will happen) - definitely.

He will live to see another day in the Dail.

IrishTonyO

I honestly don't think any politician should interfere in Garda operations no matter what the circumstances. But will hold off until I see what was said in the letters.

Sir Oxman

skelliser wrote: »

so the guy approached Sargent saying he was in fact the victim and is subsequently convicted as being the agressor. lol!
Great judge of character, Trevor, well done! Now do the honourable thing and resign

Some out-of-breath gobshyte on 'Liveline' spouted TS is a man that takes people at their word and so yer man must have gone in told him his story and TS just took him at his word...the mind boggles.

Mind you, Maire G-Q was rewarded only a few months back with a plum EU position by FF/GP even though she was notorious for interfering in sentences/fines when she was MoJ in the 90s.

Rotten sack of dirty spuds Ireland is.

The Ritz

seamus wrote: »

It seems like the same situation that cropped up a couple of years back where a FF TD sent letters looking for the early release (?) of a constituent of his from prison.

Highly inappropriate - TDs shouldn't ever be making representations to the judiciary/Gardai in this regard unless they've been invitied to do so.

Not illegal though, and it's rare that a TD steps down over "inappropriate" behaviour. Willie O'Dea only resigned as minister, he didn't give up his seat.

Sargent though has a bit more tact and personal honour, if anyone was to step down over something like this, it would be him.

If the situation is as described so far - i.e. that he sought to influence a prosecution, then it is illegal, it's a specified offence in the Prosecution of Offences Act, 1974:

"6.—(1) ( a ) Subject to the provisions of this section it shall not be lawful to communicate with the Attorney General or an officer of the Attorney General, the Director or an officer of the Director the Acting Director, a member of the Garda Síochána or a solicitor who acts on behalf of the Attorney General in his official capacity for the Director in his official capacity, for the purpose of influencing making of a decision to withdraw or not to initiate criminal proceedings or any particular charge in criminal proceedings. "

That is a very different thing from pleading for clemency, seeking to have a sentence reduced or making representations for early release, all of which are actions which can oly have effect once the prosecution and the outcome of a courtcase has had effect.



Ritz.

mike65

The dail is back at 2.30, statements from Labour and FG looking for Sargent to make a statement. I wonder is he going to make sure he is incommunicado?

Sir Oxman

Biggins wrote: »

It's a tough one.
If he was representing a citizen, attempting to assist in seeing that justice be done, it might be commendable that he felt that way.
However the manner in the way he did it, might be construed to be a form of pressure that is not appreciated by certain quarters and that is understandable too.

A complete sacking offence - I don't know! A good ticking off (which I'm sure will happen) - definitely.

He will live to see another day in the Dail.

It is quite possibly a Dail resigning event, never mind his 'junior' ministry.

The_Minister

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0223/breaking39.html
Sergent denies it.

skelliser

gambiaman wrote: »

It is quite possibly a Dail resigning event, never mind his 'junior' ministry.

How is it when lying on an affidavit isnt!

IrishTonyO

Trevor Sargeant to make a statement regarding this at 5pm today

Sir Oxman

skelliser wrote: »

How is it when lying on an affidavit isnt!

O'Dea should be pursued vigorously, post #27 says why TS's actions (if verified) are serious also.

jhegarty

The_Minister wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0223/breaking39.html
Sergent denies it.

Looks to me like he is admitting he did it , but it was ok to do it.

IrishTonyO

The Garda Commissioner has asked for an urgent report after claims that Minister for State Trevor Sargent wrote to a garda about a prosecution.

TS to give a statement in the Dail at 5.15pm regarding this. I look forward to hearing it. I doubt Fianna Fail will be in any rush to defend him after the Willie O'Dea incident, and if they do will require a high price

Biggins

Predictions:

FG/Labour will cry out!
FF will say nothing or brush it away lightly. *
The Greens will try to make it a non-issue.

* ...as much as they love to strike back at the Greens for causing one of their own to fall from grace, if they were to be seen support Sargents call to go, they know they would be open to "well, why the hell didn't yours go first?"

Its our daily dose of Dail hypocrisy.

skelliser

gambiaman wrote: »

Some out-of-breath gobshyte on 'Liveline' spouted TS is a man that takes people at their word and so yer man must have gone in told him his story and TS just took him at his word...the mind boggles.

Mind you, Maire G-Q was rewarded only a few months back with a plum EU position by FF/GP even though she was notorious for interfering in sentences/fines when she was MoJ in the 90s.

Rotten sack of dirty spuds Ireland is.

Ya heard that too.

Do politicians have a list of gob****es on speed-dial to be ready at 1.45pm everyday!

Jip

If it's as what has been said in the Times story I don't think it's an issue, however if it's as what was originally said in that he interfered in a case in which the person he represented was the person who was the assaulter and he knew that was the case, then it's a problem.

Biggins

Jip wrote: »

If it's as what has been said in the Times story I don't think it's an issue, however if it's as what was originally said in that he interfered in a case in which the person he represented was the person who was the assaulter and he knew that was the case, then it's a problem.

While I'd without question like to see a victim being supported more so than the culprit, the issue is that he went where he really shouldn't have, on a personal level.
He could have stated publicly on camera/to a reporter that he heard about a crime, was sad to hear about it and hoped that a victim sees a fair form of justice.
By interjecting (by using state paper) in a semi-official capacity to direct office and person, it draws himself to be open to criticism of his own making just to begin with - be it for a victim or a culprit.

Judgement Day

Goodbye 'Clever' Trevor and shut the door on the way out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWsJcg-g1pg

gimme5minutes

Irish Times wrote:

Sargent denies case interference

Green Party Minister for State Trevor Sargent has rejected an allegation that he tried to influence gardaí to drop a prosecution against one of his constituents.

Mr Sargent is alleged to have sent several letters to gardaí investigating a complaint against the constituent.

The man at the centre of the allegation is understood to have been subsequently convicted of threatening and abusive behaviour and fined €500.

A spokeswoman for the Dublin North TD said today: “Trevor Sargent made representations on behalf of a constituent who came to him after he was assaulted.

“Having heard the circumstances of the case, Mr Sargent asked the local gardaí to look into the case, particularly as the constituent feared for his personal safety,” she said.

What a complete load of crap. That's like something a fianna fail td would come out with - an excuse that makes absolutely no sense but that they expect the public to just swallow it with no questions asked.

Why did he have to ask the local gardai to look into the case???!?? That's complete BS, the gardai would have already been on the case, they don't need to take directions from a politician on how to do their job. So as there was zero need for him to ask the gardai to look into the case, what on earth was he possibly writing to them about?? He was obviously trying to influence them in his constituent's favour.

walshb

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I dunno.....while he obeyed the words of his promise at the last general election, he didn't act on the spirit of it.

That might be "honourable", but it was misleading.

Obeyed the words of his promise?

Are you referring to the promise that he would never go into government with FF?

He led the party in, and then he resigned with a cosy job. Far from a man of his word.

Sir Oxman

Jip wrote: »

If it's as what has been said in the Times story I don't think it's an issue, however if it's as what was originally said in that he interfered in a case in which the person he represented was the person who was the assaulter and he knew that was the case, then it's a problem.

It's neither here nor there that the guy was eventually convicted and fined, if it is the case that TS interfered with a case in which proceedings had been issued then that is the (big) problem.

Drummerboy2

Someone has been sitting on this information for over 2 years. Is it just a coincidence that it has been released a week after the Minister of Defence was forced to resign.

Happyman42

KerranJast

Drummerboy2 wrote: »

Someone has been sitting on this information for over 2 years. Is it just a coincidence that it has been released a week after the Minister of Defence was forced to resign.

Hell no. I'd wager the Greens only have to look to their right hand side in the Dail to see the source.

Judgement Day

No need to get worked up about it. This time tomorrow we will be saying Trevor who...He's a dead man walking and good riddance.

Trotter

I actually think this makes a general election any time soon less likely. The more trouble the Greens get into, the harder they'll hang on.

Anyway, this reeks of a party being taught a little lesson by another party.

skelliser

or deirdre de burca?

Jip

gambiaman wrote: »

It's neither here nor there that the guy was eventually convicted and fined, if it is the case that TS interfered with a case in which proceedings had been issued then that is the (big) problem.

But that's my point, if as he has claimed was acting on the behalf of someone who claimed was assaulted there was no pending case disclosed.

Until we see the letters and full facts are disclosed it's hard to know what way things will go, there's 2 possible scenarios here
1. He knew this guy was in trouble with a case pending against him and TS tried to interfere
2. This guy came to TS falsely claiming he was the one who was assaulted in order to try get the case messed up and dirty.

KerranJast

Jip wrote: »

But that's my point, if as he has claimed was acting on the behalf of someone who claimed was assaulted there was no pending case disclosed.

Until we see the letters and full facts are disclosed it's hard to know what way things will go, there's 2 possible scenarios here
1. He knew this guy was in trouble with a case pending against him and TS tried to interfere
2. This guy came to TS falsely claiming he was the one who was assaulted in order to try get the case messed up and dirty.

TBH either way he has to resign as you can't interfere in a case before it has been heard. Making representations on behalf of someone for leniency, early release, character reference etc isn't illegal (although bad form) but interference in an ongoing investigation technically is AFAI can tell by reading the 1974 act.