Cycling Against the Car Culture

blorg

Interesting article from a QC on how a "car culture" influences the law when it comes to collisions.

Captain Havoc

Carp, I thought it was Tuesday today, ah well weekend is upon us.

serendip

Yikes. All those horror stories make me want to take a taxi home. Luckily I have a short memory.

Beasty

1.5m minimum clearance required when overtaking a bike in France. It would be nice to see some similar rule over here

blorg

Beasty wrote: »

1.5m minimum clearance required when overtaking a bike in France. It would be nice to see some similar rule over here

Indeed, they even have signs all over the country to remind motorists of this. Motorists do give you more room than here when passing.

DirkVoodoo

Yeah overtaking too close and beeping as you begin to overtake are two very dangerous and selfish things I see in this country. Why can't you beep well in advance or after you pass to show your frustration, why try and knock me off my bike too?

Jawgap

It's probably worth remembering that in the UK the CPS is quite often referred to as the "Can't Prosecute Service" - their obsession with conviction rates often leads them to drop or not take on difficult cases. I think this article bears this out.

I was also told by a Guard, once, that I shouldn't be cycling on a particular stretch of regional road as it was meant for cycling!!

DirkVoodoo

In other news: The woman who knocked down and killed Major Rhys-Evans gets 21 months of which she will serve half.

Now I know she is probably a good person and she will have to live with what she did for the rest of her life, but a 2 year driving ban, really? Should this woman ever be let behind the wheel of a car again?

briano

I know it is nowhere in the same league as anything in the articles above, but I am having awful trouble getting anywhere after an accident last year. It seems to be that because it was an accident involving a cyclist it doesn't qualify as a "real" road traffic accident.

Beasty

briano wrote: »

I know it is nowhere in the same league as anything in the articles above, but I am having awful trouble getting anywhere after an accident last year. It seems to be that because it was an accident involving a cyclist it doesn't qualify as a "real" road traffic accident.

What's the issue? Were you the cyclist involved? Are you pursuing some kind of claim against someone?

briano

Ah, it's more frustration than anything else, I don't think going into specifics would be a terribly good idea.

Lumen

I think close passing is often caused by the fear of instant death for being on the "wrong" side of the road. The people that do it often appear to be nervous drivers.

Drivers should be taught how to overtake properly. Unfortunately this is a bit difficult to practice without breaking speed limits.

blorg

briano wrote: »

I know it is nowhere in the same league as anything in the articles above, but I am having awful trouble getting anywhere after an accident last year. It seems to be that because it was an accident involving a cyclist it doesn't qualify as a "real" road traffic accident.

If it was an accident the gardai don't tend to be terribly interested in looking into dangerous/careless driving charges. Your only option TBH is to pursue a claim for damages against the driver. If it was within the last two years you can still do this but you would need to have documented your injuries. You would want to talk to the PIAB. I've done this with a driver who was unbelievably stupid (drove right into the back of me, just "didn't see me") but I accept it was not malicious. He had to pay damages for my broken arm but never faced dangerous/careless driving charges.

I have had the gardai take a very definite interest in a deliberate assault though; the motorist was prosecuted and got probation. Witnesses are key though and if you don't have them there is little they can do.

It is good to see the case with Rhys-Evans prosecuted but I get the impression from the witness statements that the driver was deliberately passing the cyclists too close. The judge rejected a guilty plea to a charge of careless driving and she was prosecuted for causing death through dangerous driving.

leftism

Just out of hospital after being hit by a van this morning on the queys...

I'd agree that the gardai seem not to care too much about cyclists. They didn't even take a statement off me this morning at the scene of the accident. Just took my name, address and phone number and then bundled me off into the ambulance! I don't know what to do.

I'm still kind of in shock about the whole thing. First major crash i've had in 4 or 5 years of commuting by bike...

blorg

Make sure to pursue a claim for damages. It will come from the insurer rather than the driver but at least his premiums will hopefully go up.

In fairness to the Gardai they generally take statements in the station afterwards and in the case of an injury the priority would be getting you to hospital, not taking statements.

gimmeaminute

leftism wrote: »

Just out of hospital after being hit by a van this morning on the queys...

And are you okay? Bruised? Battered? Will you get back on the bike tomorrow?

leftism

No broken bones or anything...

My elbow is swolen up like a balloon and my right shoulder is fairly stiff. Other than that just some cuts and scrapes.

I was in the cycling lane heading down the queys and the van passed me between Queen St. Bridge and Church St. There is a little laneway just before Church St. and the van just pulled into it. No indicating, no checking the mirrors. Just turned left into the side lane and i went ploughing into the side of the van. Managed to slow my speed a fair bit and took most of the impact on my shoulder. The cops took a statement off the driver and told me i can pick my bike up at the station later so we'll see what happens.

Don't know whether its worth persuing damages as the bike seems ok as does my laptop which i was carrying at the time. The driver was fairly sound, and admitted he was in the wrong straight away. He called the ambulance and stayed with me til the cops and ambulance got there. I had two witnesses who gave me there numbers.

I'm planning on getting back on the bike tomorrow anyways as long as the body isn't too stiff!

concussion

Make sure you get a medical report...and double check your laptop, phone etc for damage.

Junior

Get someone to look over the frame as well man, you never know when stress fractures or a crack will appear.

stopped_clock

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah overtaking too close and beeping as you begin to overtake are two very dangerous and selfish things I see in this country. Why can't you beep well in advance or after you pass to show your frustration, why try and knock me off my bike too?

I know it's not really what you're talking about but...

You are supposed to beep when beginning to overtake to make sure the driver* being overtaken is aware of your presence. You can flash your headlights at night.

I never do either of these things, because I assume the other driver will think I'm being aggressive and I'm then left with a either an irate driver behind me or an angry cyclist beside me at the next lights. :pac:


*driver/cyclist etc - they're all supposed to get the same overtaking treatment anyway

EDIT: All the best leftism - I hadn't read about your accident before replying. Good plan to get back on the bike asap.

Beasty

stopped_clock wrote: »

You are supposed to beep when beginning to overtake to make sure the driver* being overtaken is aware of your presence. You can flash your headlights at night.

Where does it say this? I think both actions are completely inappropriate. Motor vehicles have indicators to warn other traffic of these manoeuvers.

stopped_clock

Beasty wrote: »

Where does it say this? I think both actions are completely inappropriate. Motor vehicles have indicators to warn other traffic of these manoeuvers.

The intention of beeping when commencing an overtake is akin to calling "on your right" as you pass another cyclist.

I'd thought it was explicitly in in the Rules of the Road, but it just mentions using the horn "to make other road users aware of your presence for safety reasons when reasonably necessary".

It's certainly mentioned explicitly in Roadcraft though.

It's arguably good practice when passing a cyclist since bikes lack mirrors and so a driver can't be certain the cyclist is aware of him, but as I said, I don't do it because the intention is too easily misread.

I originally replied to Dirk's post just to point out that some drivers might be trying to be considerate when they beep.

radia

Agreed that there's room for misinterpretation, but it's usually possible to distinguish between a polite 'bip' signalling 'here I come' and an aggressive 'BEEEEP'.

Civilian_Target

Beasty wrote: »

1.5m minimum clearance required when overtaking a bike in France. It would be nice to see some similar rule over here

Sort-of.
1.5 metres is the minimum passing distance if the speed limit is over 50 km/h and there is no marked cycle lane*
1 metre is the minimum passing distance if the speed limit is 50km/h or less if there is no marked cycle lane

I've never seen it enforced though. However, since many more people cycle in France, they generally leave much more space for bikes. Minor accidents with cars were pretty much an annual occurrence for me with cars in Dublin and London, and I have had virtually no trouble in 2 years on the road here.

The funny thing is, I have been warned twice for my cycling here: once for breaking the speed limit of a cycle lane

* - including crappy ones on the pavement or shared with busses. Yes, France has them too

blorg

radia wrote: »

Agreed that there's room for misinterpretation, but it's usually possible to distinguish between a polite 'bip' signalling 'here I come' and an aggressive 'BEEEEP'.

This is very true. Drivers in France and Spain commonly do the polite bip before overtaking you and giving plenty of room. You wouldn't mistake it for something agressive, honest.

poochiem

I got run off the road again today. outside the rds again. taxi just cut me up i tried to slow down on the inside but the bus stand has all broken up tarmac and I lost control in the kind of spacing between the lane and the road and ended up slamming into the bus stop, head, hand, knee and front steering. taxi driver off in the distance oblivious. fixed myself up. fixed the bike up. an hour later i was centimetres from being quite deliberately squashed on the bridge between amiens st and north strand by a bus that HAD to get to the red light in front of us at full speed and by cutting me off into the stonework.

george hook and the other media idiots have all these lunatic drivers thinking theyre doing society a service by running us off the road.

IM0

Lumen wrote: »

I think close passing is often caused by the fear of instant death for being on the "wrong" side of the road. The people that do it often appear to be nervous drivers.

talk about backwards logic, the drivers I mean! - if your nervous and a crap driver give me more room you tool not less! :mad:

tomasrojo

me@ucd wrote: »

talk about backwards logic, the drivers I mean! - if your nervous and a crap driver give me more room you tool not less! :mad:

True. Drivers also seem to be very reluctant to put their wheels into ghost islands and the like when overtaking cyclists. Again, logically, giving the cyclists adequate clearance is more important than respecting the rights of painted lines.

Great article.

DirkVoodoo

I beeped at Tom and Caroline on Sunday. I hope they knew I wasn't being polite and was in fact demanding they get off the fecking road...you should all be locked up!*

*ROK 09 reference

monument

What was it about yesterday? Was it the rain after no heavy rain for a while? I'm glad the day is over. Close calls are rare for me, but yesterday I had:

Two drivers, one straight after the other nearly side-swipe me just before entering the top of O'Connell Street. Both swing from the right lane into the middle bus lane where I was to get to the left turning lane. No indicates, and as far as I can see both the middle and left lane are now marked as 24-hour bus lanes.

Then in the middle of O'Connell Street, while cycling inside a tour bus, it pulls into the side of the road. I was cycling along in the cycle lane, but this bus and many others seem to just pull into the side for no reason other than there's a bit of the cycle lane marking missing. He claimed he was going straight on!

Then on a Dublin Bike later on (long story) I was above Smithfield in a cycle lane again when a car driver decides to pull in just near the corner at the end of the street -- again without indicating and when I was along side him.

And to balance this out these was also a ****er of a cyclist cycling at me in the cycle lane on Parnell Square South, a one-way street. Why is it that a memorable amount of law-breaking cyclists are wearing high-viz and helmets? I'm not trying to tar all of those who wear such, I just think it's interesting that some think cycling is dangerous enough to wear this gear but not enough to stop breaking lights or going the wrong way down a one-way street!

I really wish I had at least tried to report the bus. I did try to go back to the last car, but he was gone (I shouted very loudly at him when he was pulling in on me, then he spotted me and stopped, and I cycled on, maybe I should of stopped). I'm just glad my breaks are in good working order and I acted (breaking, shouting etc) quick enough to stop anything from happening in all of these cases.

Capt'n Midnight

tomasrojo wrote: »

True. Drivers also seem to be very reluctant to put their wheels into ghost islands and the like when overtaking cyclists. Again, logically, giving the cyclists adequate clearance is more important than respecting the rights of painted lines.

Great article.

It's one penalty point for going into white hatched lines.

Then again very few people avoid them at right hand turn lanes. Why the road designers only leave space for two or three cars to go through at many junctions mystifies me. (if every 3rd or 4th car is turning right then this effectively limits straight through / left turning cars to a similar number per sequence)

blorg

@monument- I also had a crap commute home yesterday with people doing stupid things like I haven't seen in quite a while. One particularly annoying one was the old sudden swerve into the mandatory cycle lane to undertake a car turning right. I only had one Fenix TK-11, on the low mode, angled down, I am going straight back to two of them on high, bars and helmet, angled at drivers eyeballs.

seamus

blorg wrote: »

@monument- I also had a crap commute home yesterday with people doing stupid things like I haven't seen in quite a while. One particularly annoying one was the old sudden swerve into the mandatory cycle lane to undertake a car turning right. I only had one Fenix TK-11, on the low mode, angled down, I am going straight back to two of them on high, bars and helmet, angled at drivers eyeballs.

The last three weeks I've seen an unbelieveable amount of stupid driving, from left/right turns with no indication and no mirror usage whatsoever, to barely being given any space (a speedie passed me this morning within about six inches), and a constant stream of people half-turning out of estates and blocking the road/cycle lane.
I also had my first proper near-miss where someone pulled out of an estate and directly across the road to go into a petrol station, while I was coming up the inside of traffic. In her defence, I was going a bit too fast for the traffic conditions, but aside from her stopping suddenly, there wasn't even an acknowledgement on her face about what nearly happened.

Maybe it's because it's the end of February, everyone's broke and stressed and the weather's still crap.

I was thinking yesterday of getting wrist torches like you see in Star Trek so I can point it directly at any cars waiting to turn across my path.

Beasty

seamus wrote: »

I was thinking yesterday of getting wrist torches like you see in Star Trek so I can point it directly at any cars waiting to turn across my path.

Helmet lights can be effective. I have mine directed mainly at the road about 4-5m ahead (pothole spotting), but have worked out where I need to turn my head to get a driver's attention

DirkVoodoo

Yeah had some stupid moments myself yesterday:

- Nearly reversed over by driver not looking.
- 2 cars at separate times pulled out suddenly from side roads as I was passing. I swear there is some mentality that says "bike=slow, pull out, loads of time". I gave the finger to the first guy because he looked straight at me and pulled out anyway, I passed the back of the car with about 2 feet to spare.
-Triathlete style jogger decides to leave footpath and start jogging in the road, then cross the road right in front of me. Cue some swearing and swerving on slippy roads. He had no lights or high viz, something that annoys me about nighttime joggers.

I didn't have the Fenix on but I had a smart front light on constant and one of the little silicone knogg style lights on flashing.

I think bad weather always equals bad driving around town. Just stay extra vigilant and drop the speed a bit.

blorg

Coming back from the cancelled race on Sunday I had someone just drive straight onto a roundabout I was on, right in front of me. Perfect visibility. Complete "cyclists don't count" mentality. Had to jam on the brakes to not go into the side of him, despite me swearing at his open window he just looked oblivious.

doozerie

I had a few "interesting" encounters yesterday too. There was the taxi driver that pulled away from the taxi rank right in front of me. A second taxi was pulling out too, but stopped when he finally saw me. The first guy pulled right over into the right-most lane, pushing me onto the solid white line. At the red traffic light just ahead I asked him if he realised he had pulled out in front of me - in fairness he said "sorry, I didn't see you", but in that casual way that suggested he really didn't see the problem. Some people just never seem to use their mirrors.

The most memorable incident yesterday though was an old ambulance, of the kind used to transport the elderly or disabled rather than the type that tend to emergencies, driving along bachelors Walk. He was in the bus/left-turning lane, but he just drove straight through the junction at O'Connell Bridge, forcing the car to his right to pull out to make space. The large left wing mirror of the ambulance skimmed within a few inches of the faces of the people stopped at the pedestrian light on the other side of the junction. As he was forcing his way into the lane to his right, I tried to get past on his inside in the cycle lane, but he then swung across in front of me to drive in the loading bays along that stretch of Eden Quay. I stayed back, and a good thing too, 'cos he then swung right into the traffic lane again. As he slowed in traffic I took the chance to overtake on his left in order to get away from whatever carnage he seemed intent on creating. From the gormless expression on his face, which I could see in his under-used wing mirror, I suspect he thought that he was being considerate to all those around him - he stepped straight out of an episode of Mr. Bean.

Gavin

Yeah strange, also had several encounters last night. The bad weather brings out the idiots.

Blowfish

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I think bad weather always equals bad driving around town. Just stay extra vigilant and drop the speed a bit.

Definitely seems to be the case, a bit of rain and the standard of driving seems to drop dramatically. Like everyone else it seems, I had a close call yesterday too. Mine was from a motorcyclist who didn't bother with a shoulder check when moving left from the main stream of traffic into the (non-mandatory) cycle lane. Then there was also the no lights bike salmon that I had to swerve to avoid after seeing him late.

chakattack

Had a taxi deliberately try to teach me a lesson for using the bus lane on the N11 tonight. Pulled right across me at 45 degrees with barely an inch to spare and he was bombing...(so was I!)

Some of these guys are on the verge of homicidal.

blorg

Had 2 Fenixes on full tonight, handlebar one aimed up and another on the helmet. Much less sillyness from motorists, I will be maintaining this in future. Someone started to go into the cycle lane at one stage but very quickly aborted. I honestly think this is they way forward, a dazzling ball of light rolling though the suburbs.

Junior

I may get banned for this, but some of ye might have seen a link to a car website in my sig, they've been my other love since I was about 10. So I can see the argument from both sides of the fence.

However to follow up on a point made about weather affecting driving. I do massive mileage (70k in 6 Months) at the moment and I cover three counties, and the slightest weather change affects people, and it brings out two types of driver, the 60km/h or the 120km/h there's nothing wrong person. It's absolutely ****in ridiculous !

I really would be in favour of a ten year test for drivers, I would also be in favour of a full overhaul of the actual items that are thought. (and I've gone on primetime to say this) The driving license and driving test are only an indication that we can pass a test, they provide no indication of skill or aptitude for the job of driving a car.

irishmotorist

These all look like I'm reading about my recent commutes. Particular ones that have been happening frequently this week are cars pulling out of side roads, braking sharply into the cycle lane and then looking to see if there's any traffic coming so they can get a quick get away.

Also, plenty of cars coming towards me and turning right across me that have stopped mid junction when they've finally decided to see that there is a cyclist coming.

Most of these have been in full or near-full light. Not dark or dusk by any means.

Thankfully my Big Head Shake has worked in most cases to indicate to the driver that I have right of way, I'm coming and they shouldn't be doing what they're doing.

@Junior - I totally agree with the 10 year re-test. I've been thinking this for years myself....as a driver. No matter what mode of transport I'm using, the poor driving skills, habits and attitudes of so many people make me wonder how they passed a test at all. Did they decide once they'd passed that indicators and lane discipline are for pussies or something? These two are just two of my favourite examples, but the list goes on.

seamus

Newish one that seems to have made an appearance this week is cars waiting to turn across the road (from right or left), looking straight at me, waiting until I'm two feet from their bumper before they start inching forward and scaring the crap out of me.

Capt'n Midnight

irishmotorist wrote: »

Did they decide once they'd passed that indicators and lane discipline are for pussies or something? These two are just two of my favourite examples, but the list goes on.

Flashing lights are not just for Christmas


One of my pet hates, people who don't indicate on roundabouts. As a cyclist I don't always indicate when turning right , mainly when it's unsafe to do so, but am usually in the middle of the lane so no one can sneak past

doozerie

It's probably not needed but here is another example of the mindset of some people: on the way home yesterday, just past the garda station in Rathmines, I was in the cycle lane with a car just ahead of me. Just before the bend by the garda station she was happily driving with her inside wheels well into the cycle track. She seemed to pull back into her lane on the left turning bend only because that was easier than taking a tighter turn. Just after the bend/junction the car ahead of her was turning right into the garage. I was pulling alongside her when she decided that the best course of action was to pull into the cycle track, crossing the solid white line in the process, possibly to try to squeeze her wide Merc through a gap between the turning car and the kerb which clearly was too small to fit through. I accelerated past her to avoid getting pushed into the kerb. Once ahead of her, I indicated that she should shove over into her own lane, and I overtook another cyclist in the cycle track as I passed to the left of the right-turning car.

Further ahead I got into a "conversation" with the woman driving the Merc. Her assessment of the situation was that I was completely in the wrong for overtaking the other cyclist, clearly exonerating her for anything that she might have done (which she didn't acknowledge in the first place, of course). I would guess that she would do the very same thing next time round, in the arrogant belief that she is completely entitled to do so. That is the mindset of someone that routinely breaks red lights, ignores speed limits, overtakes on blind corners, etc., citing their lack of collisions as some sort of proof that their behaviour is not dangerous.

I'd like to think that having to re-sit a driving test regularly would educate such people, but unfortunately I don't think these people see any kind of link between their driving attitude and the kind of carnage that you often see reported as a result of someone else driving in the same way. It is the same as those people who insist they can drive safely with several pints in them while also holding the belief that those that "can't hold their drink" would be a danger to everyone behind the wheel of a car. In its current form, I think the driving test fails entirely at weeding out drivers that have no empathy or consideration whatsoever for other road users. It does weed out those that have inadequate control of a car, and perhaps those that are simply ignorant of the rules of the road, but that is really only half the battle.

roc_racer

You say: Does the man who paid for that car know you drive it like that ?

doozerie

Two more incidents:

* yesterday evening an oncoming taxi turned right across the stopped line of cars to the right of the cycle lane I was in. He didn't see me and I didn't see him until the last second. We both hauled on the brakes and just managed to avoid colliding. He was already mostly blocking my path anyway so I waved him on. For his part he shook his head and gave me an expression suggesting that I was some sort of idiot. The fact that I had right of way simply didn't occur to him, it seems.

* coming up to a left turn into work this morning, an oncoming car turned right into the same lane, cutting me off. I asked him if he'd seen me, he said he hadn't. Just a statement of fact, no hint of any kind of acknowledgement of an error or misjudgement on his part. I asked him if he'd actually looked, he asked if I had my light on. Oh, so it was entirely my fault then. Silly me, I thought that in daylight hours my admittedly relatively small body plus bike would count as being quite visible, but apparently some people require that I sport a disco glitter ball on my handlebars too.

My initial reaction is to take both of these incidents as further proof that the culture of "the car has right of way, regardless" is growing stronger all the time. However, also on my commute this morning I saw a cyclist who had been waiting at a red light just cycle through the junction when the pedestrian lights went green, weaving closely around a man and two children in doing so; I saw several cyclists cycle through the top of a T-junction on a red light, expecting the cars coming from their right to leave space for them; a cyclist behind me literally scraped past me while I was doing a track-stand at a red light; and lots of other similar behaviour. There may well be a car culture, but the mindset that, er, drives that is shared by those cyclists from this morning and many others that I see regularly. They expect pedestrians and other road users to create space for them in the same way that the worst of car drivers expect everyone else to bend to their will.

It is probably more accurate to say that rather than there being a car culture, as such, there is an arrogant gob****e culture that is routinely demonstrated by many people who use many modes of transport. I expect that cars are more often identified as prime examples of such a culture simply because incidents involving cars are more visible and often more serious, but to all of the cyclists and pedestrians out there that similarly and routinely ignore the rules of the road with complete disregard for everyone and everything around them, don't delude yourselves that you are any different from the people behind the wheels of those cars. There is no point in trying to fight a supposed "car culture" if we only end up replacing it with a similarly minded "bike culture", "pedestrian culture", or whatever. Those of us who are unwilling to take responsibility for our actions should simply stay off the roads entirely, we should stay in the isolated comfort of our own homes where we can safely be as obnoxious as we like to the empty space around us.

Right, rant over, I have to save some outrage for the muppets that I fully expect to encounter on my commute home later.

jaqian

Civilian_Target wrote: »

The funny thing is, I have been warned twice for my cycling here: once for breaking the speed limit of a cycle lane

I didn't think a speed limit applied to bicycles.

thirtythirty

leftism wrote: »

I was in the cycling lane heading down the queys and the van passed me between Queen St. Bridge and Church St. There is a little laneway just before Church St. and the van just pulled into it. No indicating, no checking the mirrors. Just turned left into the side lane and i went ploughing into the side of the van.

First, I'm glad you're ok, i agree it was v bad driving on the van's part, and i'm not saying you did anything wrong at all BUT..

As an avid motorist, cyclist, and one time moped,eh,ist...I am acutely aware of those types of situations, and when i'm cycling I would always be on the lookout and trying to pre-empt scenarios like that. When you say you went ploughing into the side of it, that kinda indicates that you didn't anticipate that the van *might* do something stupid like that, and didnt either have your hands hovering on the brakes, or be slowing already.

I know the argument is "you shouldn't have to", and I 100% agree. But the fact is safety is down to both driver and cyclist observation and pre-empting scenarios. Obviously there will be cases where you have no control, but at least you can improve your own safety to a certain extent.

I might be alone in this thinking, but i just think it's worth mentioning!

MadHatter

doozerie wrote: »

He was already mostly blocking my path anyway so I waved him on. For his part he shook his head and gave me an expression suggesting that I was some sort of idiot. The fact that I had right of way simply didn't occur to him, it seems.

In those situations, I will never wave the car on. I cling to the hope that making the car wait while you exert your right of way and give the driver the evil eye might actually make them think about their actions.

doozerie wrote: »

It is probably more accurate to say that rather than there being a car culture, as such, there is an arrogant gob****e culture that is routinely demonstrated by many people who use many modes of transport.

Agree entirely. Some people think the world revolves around them, their time is more precious that anyone else's and and that the rules only apply to others. These people drive, cycle and walk.