Novels

i-digress

I'm just wondering how many of us here are trying to write novels? I'm writing two simultaneously. It sounds a bit mad, but I had two completely different stories in my head, one is a YA novel, the other is a popular fiction piece.

Who else is writing novels here? How are you finding it?

Antilles

Writing is easy, editing is hard. I have two first drafts of novels sitting on my hard drive, but for me the editing process takes five times as long as getting the story down in the first place

pickarooney

I have one waiting to go as soon as I finish/discard the first one (and my kids grow up and leave home). I know it would be by far the better book, but just can't seem to get around to starting it.

Editing is a nightmare; it's like drowning puppies which you know have a terminal illness.

kcim

i'm new to writing but i really enjoy the editing part.

i-digress

kcim wrote: »

i'm new to writing but i really enjoy the editing part.

So do I! My first drafts tend to be very rough though, so it's fairly easy to see what needs cutting.

Black Swan

I've started two and I am now suffering from writer's block. Oh, I can do a short-short on a dare by a friend, but to finish a novel would be novel.

i-digress

I'm 35,000 words into my YA novel and 12,000 words into my popular fiction novel. Which is the most I've ever managed to write. It's hard to keep the pace of the story going though, that's what I struggle with most.

kcim

I am 51,192 words into my fantasy epic for young adults

Black Swan

Oh, we are now counting words? I once thought that was important, and grabbed several NY Times best sellers, first counting the number of words on one full page, then multiplying that number times the number of pages to get a rough approximation. At the bottom of the range was a best seller of 100,000 words, so I produced half that before tossing my coming-of-age novel manuscript aside completely disillusioned with the poor quality of my many words.

Words, words, numbers of words!

In desperation I turned away from the counting of words, to the counting of pages of best sellers with few pages, large type, and comfortable margins and gutters, discovering The Lessons of History, The One Minute Manager, Who Stole My Cheese, The Prophet, and Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam, to name only a few 100 page successes, and not caring if they be prose or verse, or if fiction or pseudo-nonfiction.

Heartened after realising that the vast number of words were no longer important, I exploded with a charge of productivity to write the first chapter for the next great Irish novelette, waving it about my creative friends as if a sword that could chop through any writer's block.

Pages, pages, number of pages!

That was months ago, and I shall not tell you the number of pages that my first chapter of yet another started but incomplete work be, for the dust that has settled upon it would make me sneeze.

EileenG

I've written two YA novels, one of which is edited, though after reading "Passionate Ink" I've just realised a lot of bits that could do with another go, and one of which hasn't been touched yet. And oh yeah, I've just started book three.

Killer_banana

I'm currently writing a YA novel. I've gotten further itno this than any other manuscript I've written before (and trust me there are a lot of unfinished books on my computer). I find it so hard to get time to write though. I'm in school all day and then I get home and do homework and when I do have free time I want to spend it lounging around in front of the TV or catching up on all the books I no longer have time to read. Some of it is procrastination,I will admit that but when I want to do nothing but write and have a million new ideas bouncing round my head I can't write because there's something more 'important' to do.

Another problem is when I look over older chapters for whatever reason I edit. I've only written eight and a half chapters yet I keep relentlessly rewriting them over and over. I just don't like looking back over a chapter to find information to do with the current chapter and realising I've written something really bad and then having to leave it like that. Anyone else have this problem?

pickarooney

Killer_banana wrote: »

Another problem is when I look over older chapters for whatever reason I edit. I've only written eight and a half chapters yet I keep relentlessly rewriting them over and over. I just don't like looking back over a chapter to find information to do with the current chapter and realising I've written something really bad and then having to leave it like that. Anyone else have this problem?

Absolutely, which is why I avoid doing it as far as possible. I find it's easy enough to keep going without referring back. If there's a minor inconsistency it can be fixed later. If you've forgotten who your character was supposed to be, maybe he wasn't that memorable. That said I did somehow manage to give two completely different characters the exact same name without realising it until I read back over it.

i-digress

pickarooney wrote: »

Absolutely, which is why I avoid doing it as far as possible. I find it's easy enough to keep going without referring back. If there's a minor inconsistency it can be fixed later.

+1 This is what I do.

As for the number of words, it's the method that works best for me. Having a set word count per day makes me write, and also means I have to find a way to get over writers block.

Writing is about ideas, but I've that found without some structure nothing gets done. I've been writing a thousand words a day for so long now, that it has become a habit, and that can only be a good thing. Personally, I want to get the rough story outlined before I polish it, and as I'm finding the characters are pushing along the story themselves at this point I'm afraid to stop!

piby

There seems to be a lot of people writing YA novels! Any particular reason?

I have 3/4 different stories floating around in my head and I'm trying to get one of them down but there's a big difference in having an idea and then getting it down on paper. The truth is you could probably come back to me in 10 years and I'll still be at the same stage

i-digress

I'm writing a YA novel because I read them. I'm 23, and I love stories that involve magic. I may try to write a fantasy book for adults in years to come, but this is the story that came to me at the moment.

pickarooney

I'm not even sure what a YA novel is exactly. I feel left out! What's the definiton of a YA novel?

lyndak082

whats a YA novel??

probably a really dumb question but i have to ask!

i-digress

It's not dumb at all! YA is short for young adult novel, basically books that are primarily marketed at the teen market, though in practice can be read by all age groups. The main protagonist is usually a teenager.

EileenG

And that's one reason I write them. Huge potential market, and a lot of fun to write. Also, I find that many of my favourite books have recently been repackaged as YA.

WHU

I'm just over 12,000 words into my first novel, a bit of a grisley horror. I'm a bit stuck at the moment so as I've another idea rattling around I'm going to make a start on that one. Sometimes inspiration just jumps at you when your least expecting it.

EileenG

I'm not sure that's a good idea. There's a real danger you'll end up abandoning the novel. Why not do a few days of sitting down and writing your 1000 words, even without a scene in mind? Sometimes the act of writing helps your brain get past the block and find a new direction.

desolate sun

For people who are finding it difficult to finish their book, have a look at the Nanowrimo website. http://www.nanowrimo.org/
I've used this website for the past few years and now have 2 seperate manuscripts that I'm working on.
You use the month of November to get the bare bones of your story down and after that you edit it.
I've also learned loads about the writing process.

Tips for writing your Novel
* First drafts are supposed to be messy, grammatically incorrect, inconsistent messes!
99.9% of novels in bookshops started off like this.

* Don't edit as you write. Write your first draft and THEN edit. Writing and editing means your novel will take forever to finish. You'll end up frustrated and won't finish the novel.

* If you get another idea whilst writing your novel (affectionately referred to as a 'plot bunny'), write it down and then get back to the job in hand. When your novel is finished, then go back to the other plot bunny.

* Leave your first draft aside for at least a month before you start editing. That way you look at it with fresh eyes.

* Editing process - BIG PICTURE edit first, i.e. make sure plot and characters are consistent, narrative has a certain flow, cut out anything that doesnt move your plot forward (for fiction other than literary fiction), move chapters around, etc.
Then when you're happy with that, FINE TUNE edit, i.e. keep tenses consistent, show don't tell, tidy up the sentences, etc.
There's no point fine tune editing before big picture, because you can spend an eternity editing a paragraph only to cut the whole thing because it is irrelevant to the plot.


Disclaimer: I have read dozens of books on writing and there is a general consensus on this advice. It has worked for me and many more writers.

WHU

desolate sun wrote: »

Tips for writing your Novel
* First drafts are supposed to be messy, grammatically incorrect, inconsistent messes!
99.9% of novels in bookshops started off like this.

* Don't edit as you write. Write your first draft and THEN edit. Writing and editing means your novel will take forever to finish. You'll end up frustrated and won't finish the novel.

I am very guilty of this.

Thanks for the tips desolate sun

desolate sun

Thanks WHU.

Another question people ask when writing a novel is should you plan the book from start to finish or should you just start writing when you get a good idea?

I've done both and it's a personal choice really. Personally I prefered writing with just a character and a strong idea in mind. I found I was able to tap into my imagination much more, if only because I had to!

But I know some writers who would have a panic attack if they hadn't detailed chapter plans and whole worlds built before writing!

i-digress

For those who are writing/have written YA novels what are your opinions on word count?

It's a balancing act. I'm looking to publish, so I want it to be a professional length. But if it's too long, it costs more to print which might influence a publisher's decision.

Thoughts?

EileenG

YA are generally shorter, so anything above 35k to 40k words would be considered. Mine tend to average 55-60k.

Killer_banana

piby wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of people writing YA novels! Any particular reason?

Personally I write YA because I read a lot of it and also I am a 'young adult' (I don't know why but I've never liked that term.

My novel's a bit all over the place at the moment and I just can't seem to get it to work. I have a new idea as well so I think I might just work on that for a while. I know it's generally a bad idea but my new idea is so intriguing that I have to at least start. I will return to my other manuscript. I've been thinking of taking a break from for a while now anyway. I feel like i'm getting no where with it and it's just not working. I'm going to give it some time and then return.

Random question but am I the youngest here?

af_thefragile

I'm trying to write two novels currently.
One is a psychological/philosophical thriller kinda thing.
The other is a space sci-fi.

And I think I've got amazing plots which if laid down in the form of a novel properly will make a very interesting read.

But I'm pretty **** at writing and cuz of college, I've barely been getting any time to write anything...
So well, I'm taking my time with it...

i-digress

Killer_banana wrote: »

Random question but am I the youngest here?

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 23.

EileenG

There's certainly another writer on here who hasn't done her Leaving Cert yet.

mmmchoccy

I wrote my first novel last year... it took me from september to around mid- june, and I've been constantly editing it since... It's YA-fantasy, and around 90,000 words which is just a little long for a YA... I've got my LC (I'm 17) this year though so I've had to put aside writing the sequel ( though I am planning it) till June...

Killer_banana

mmmchoccy wrote: »

I wrote my first novel last year... it took me from september to around mid- june, and I've been constantly editing it since... It's YA-fantasy, and around 90,000 words which is just a little long for a YA... I've got my LC (I'm 17) this year though so I've had to put aside writing the sequel ( though I am planning it) till June...

Ah crap, now I can't use seventeen as being an excuse to not actually finishing a novel yet. Damn! :P congrats on that by the way. As for the leaving cert stopping you from writing, I know the feeling. Good luck with the sequel though!

Looks like I'm second youngest then (I'm eighteen next week).

pickarooney

mmmchoccy wrote: »

I wrote my first novel last year... it took me from september to around mid- june, and I've been constantly editing it since... It's YA-fantasy, and around 90,000 words which is just a little long for a YA... I've got my LC (I'm 17) this year though so I've had to put aside writing the sequel ( though I am planning it) till June...

Harry Potter and Twilight books seem to be longer that that - do those not count as YA?

EileenG

pickarooney wrote: »

Harry Potter and Twilight books seem to be longer that that - do those not count as YA?

Yes, but they are special cases. Normally, a YA that long has to be something extraordinary to get published.

Killer_banana

EileenG wrote: »

Yes, but they are special cases. Normally, a YA that long has to be something extraordinary to get published.

Which makes you wonder how Twilight got accepted. 'Long' YA is also published if it's written by an author who has a big enough fanbase that they're confident it will sell....although personally I think 'long' YA would sell either way and publishers are just underestimating teenagers' (and older readers' because they read YA too) attention spans. As long as the book isn't unnecessarily long I have no problem reading it.

EileenG

You need to be sure of sales, since a longer novel could cost twice as much to print and ship, but you can't charge twice as much for it, so you need a bigger print run and higher sales.

A standard length novel has standard pricing, so publisher are more willing to take a chance on printing one by an unknown author.

The very first Harry Potter was very close to standard length. As they got more popular, they got longer.

Killer_banana

Ah okay that makes a lot more sense.

pickarooney

I suppose the savvy thing to do would be to break it up into smaller volumes and have something new ready to publish once the first one gets popular. I don't recall ever reading a YA novel. I'm not sure there was even such a thing when I was a teenager, it was just kids' books and adults' books. Unless you count Judy Blume.

ramsmobile

I recently launched an "Author Diary" on my blog, where I'll be documenting the progress of my second book, provisionally titled Lord of the Rams 2: A Tale of Four Continents.

The diary will chart things like word count, completed chapters and issues I encounter along the way. It may or may not be of interest to others, but at the very least it will hopefully keep me focussed on reaching my deadlines/milestones.

You can read the first diary entry at http://lordoftherams.com/blog/?p=91

Thanks,
Ronan

www.lordoftherams.com
www.facebook.com/lordoftherams

EileenG

pickarooney wrote: »

I suppose the savvy thing to do would be to break it up into smaller volumes and have something new ready to publish once the first one gets popular. I don't recall ever reading a YA novel. I'm not sure there was even such a thing when I was a teenager, it was just kids' books and adults' books. Unless you count Judy Blume.

Lots of my favourite books that I read as an adult have recently been relaunched as YA.

pickarooney

EileenG wrote: »

Lots of my favourite books that I read as an adult have recently been relaunched as YA.

Did they edit them or just change the cover and 'branding'? Can you give me a few examples?

EileenG

Put a new cover on them and plonked them in a section under a big Young Adult sign.

i-digress

EileenG wrote: »

Put a new cover on them and plonked them in a section under a big Young Adult sign.

I'm not sure if this is what Eileen means, but Wuthering Heights and Pride and Prejudice are sold in the Young Adult section in black dramatic covers.

pickarooney

i-digress wrote: »

I'm not sure if this is what Eileen means, but Wuthering Heights and Pride and Prejudice are sold in the Young Adult section in black dramatic covers.

The books they forced young adults to read at school now revived as entertainment. Brilliant!

i-digress

I'm nearly finished the first draft of my novel! I'm so excited! Of course, it will probably take me a year to edit the thing, but that's another story...

donfers

what is the best software to use for writing a novel?

I have a windows laptop so can't use scrivener which looks great but only for macs

I guess most people use word or openoffice.org


also for writing scripts i hear final draft is the industry standard but that's expensive, has anyone used the free software celtx?

i-digress

I use MS Word. Boring maybe, but it does all I need it to.

i-digress

The first three quarters of my book were easy and fun to write, but this last quarter is like pulling teeth! Unbelievably painful. Did anyone else find this? :rolleyes:

dawvee

I've used CeltX a bit to rough out characters, settings, store notes for later, stuff like that. It works really well, and being free I'd absolutely recommend trying out to see if it works for you.

Something else that might be worth a look is TiddlyWiki. It's like a personal Wikipedia that you can store all your own notes in, cross-linking them to one another where it's relevant.

Being honest, though, I mostly just use Word. I think for me personally, my issue is not so much a lack of organisation tools, but a lack of organisation! :P

HalloweenJack

I'm working on a play/screenplay, only about thirteen pages in and I'm just struggling how to bridge pieces together. I don't want it to be incident after incident. I have it outlined and I know where I want to go with it.

I also have an idea for a novel. I have the story outlined, characters outlined, I've chosen the themes I want to touch on and I've done a bit of background research. I still haven't started writting it yet. I can't get started.

pickarooney

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I'm working on a play/screenplay, only about thirteen pages in and I'm just struggling how to bridge pieces together. I don't want it to be incident after incident. I have it outlined and I know where I want to go with it.

Try shuffling the order of them about, cutting from one bit to another, then do it again with a different sequence until you find a good balance.

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I also have an idea for a novel. I have the story outlined, characters outlined, I've chosen the themes I want to touch on and I've done a bit of background research. I still haven't started writting it yet. I can't get started.

Write something, no matter how bad, about 1000 words or so. Then keep going until you run out of ink. Go back and try salvage something from it. The more you write, the more ideas will come to you. Some will be great, some will be terrible.