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Head shops issue to be discussed

  • 23-02-2010 01:18AM
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭


    http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/head-shops-issue-to-be-discussed-2074636.html
    The controversy surrounding so called head shops and legal highs will be put under the spotlight by government officials from across Ireland and the UK, it emerged.

    As traders face mounting pressure from angry communities, politicians will discuss measures to combat the opening of the stores and use of psychoactive substances.

    John Curran, junior minister with responsibility for the national drugs strategy, will chair the ministerial meeting of the British-Irish Council in the Isle of Man on Wednesday. He said the issue of head shops and legal highs is one of ongoing concern, not only in Ireland, but throughout the eight administrations of the council and beyond.

    "I was grateful of the opportunity to suggest the addition of this topic to the agenda, and this was readily accepted by the other ministers," said Mr Curran. "While jurisdictions are approaching the problem in different ways, I am sure that we can all learn and benefit from each other's experiences and ideas."

    The number of head shops opening in towns across the country has escalated in recent months, with some open until 4am at weekends and offering delivery service. While parents have protested outside some premises, it is also claimed criminals and drug dealers angered over the success of the head shops were prepared to threaten the businesses.

    Two stores in Dublin's north inner city were targeted by suspected arsonists this month.

    Health minister Mary Harney has promised to introduce legislation to deal with the stores by June and bring Ireland into line with the UK's stricter anti-drugs laws.

    The Oireachtas Justice Committee is also holding investigations into head shops and will probe if they can be banned.


    Mr Curran said the misuse of drugs in prisons will also be addressed during the summit at the Tynwald Buildings, the Parliamentary buildings of the Isle of Man.

    The Council includes members of the Irish and British Governments, the devolved institutions in Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales, and representatives of the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey. Established to promote positive, practical relationships among the people of the islands, it is the only international forum in which these eight members participate.

    now,me thinks all of this fuss started when some yuppies from rich areas/rich familes started to take this stuff and then they started to notice,nobody gave a f#ck when the poor where doing all this,if the gov are stuck for revenue they could put a tax on this stuff,now dont say oh thats wrong etc,they already make money from "Immoral" stuff as cigs,beer,gambleing.


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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,535 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    They're not long for this world. I'm sure they'll return in some form or another.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    The Oireachtas Justice Committee is also holding investigations into head shops and will probe if they can be banned.
    Means "We have no Real Legal Basis on which we can ban this, so we're looking for a loophole and will probably call them a danger to society as they are big effing targets for out of work drug dealers."

    The truth is they werent keeping track of just how big Smoke has gotten in [their] country and they are Shocked to see it all Above Ground now. They want to sweep it back under the Black Market where it wont smudge their rose tinted reality.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭Sea Sharp


    They've wrecked my economy and now they're wrecking my buzz!!:cool:

    Why do they always copy-paste UK laws?
    Seriously, what the fcuk is up with that. It's disgustingly lazy and it makes a mockery of our national independence.

    Mary Harney, learn to use Google and you will find hundreds of drug policies from around the world that you can rip off. Pay close attention Mexico, Argentina & Portugal


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,892 ✭✭✭ChocolateSauce


    The government should hold joint discussions with the headshops so that they can make friends.;)

    But seriously, it's really easy, safe, and cheap for me to go down to the headshop in Rathmines and buy some smoke if I want to spend the weekend in, but if they ban it I'll just go back to buying from illegal dealers.

    Congratulations FF, you continue to be a paragon of intelligence, common sense, and positive results.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    What gets me about the 'head shop fiasco' is the fact that there was no issue before the premises on Capel Street was burned down. It now seems to have been forgotten (from my perspective, at least) that a serious crime was (possibly) committed (given that a fire broke out in a North Frederick Street premises a matter of days later, it doesn’t strike me as coincidental), with the focus now being on banning head shops. For fire safety reasons. Apparently.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,175 ✭✭✭Red_Marauder


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What gets me about the 'head shop fiasco' is the fact that there was no issue before the premises on Capel Street was burned down. It now seems to have been forgotten (from my perspective, at least) that a serious crime was (possibly) committed (given that a fire broke out in a North Frederick Street premises a matter of days later, it doesn’t strike me as coincidental), with the focus now being on banning head shops. For fire safety reasons. Apparently.
    I don't think the story is forgotten, the weekend papers ran a number of reports on it. The thing is there's no further development in the story yet, but all of the papers have reported an ongoing investigation.

    It would be interesting if the stores had actually been the target of criminals who had seen their street business suffer, since that would infer that head shops take profits out of the hands of criminal gangs. However, the IRA possibility isn't one that can be dismissed, given that a head shop owner was shot in the leg in Derry recently by an IRA (socialist republican) gunman with no particular motive apart from an evident aversion to drugs.

    I have a hard time believing that the parents of Fiachra and Fuinneog from Killiney Hill were behind this kind of thing though.
    It's a well known fact that people who live in Killiney don't even know where Capel Street and North Frederick Street are and they have never even heard of The Northside.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What gets me about the 'head shop fiasco' is the fact that there was no issue before the premises on Capel Street was burned down. It now seems to have been forgotten (from my perspective, at least) that a serious crime was (possibly) committed (given that a fire broke out in a North Frederick Street premises a matter of days later, it doesn’t strike me as coincidental), with the focus now being on banning head shops. For fire safety reasons. Apparently.

    This has been a huge issue since long before that fire on Capel street.

    The issue was raised by concerned parents whose children were buying these so called legal highs. There was also huge concern for the locations of some of these stores around the country, with many apparently being located near schools.

    The first action should be to regulate them to stop them serving children. This solves the most immediate problem in my opinion.If adults want to get off their heads let them. Sure the drinks industry is built on that fact


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    djpbarry wrote: »
    What gets me about the 'head shop fiasco' is the fact that there was no issue before the premises on Capel Street was burned down. It now seems to have been forgotten (from my perspective, at least) that a serious crime was (possibly) committed (given that a fire broke out in a North Frederick Street premises a matter of days later, it doesn’t strike me as coincidental), with the focus now being on banning head shops. For fire safety reasons. Apparently.

    We live in a dumb world and are ruled by a bunch of dummies, so I'm not surprised the current 'fiasco' doesn't make much sense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The issue was raised by concerned parents whose children were buying these so called legal highs. There was also huge concern for the locations of some of these stores around the country, with many apparently being located near schools.

    You're right, but it's ridiculous the parents would rather their children go to illegal drug dealers.

    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The first action should be to regulate them to stop them serving children. This solves the most immediate problem in my opinion.If adults want to get off their heads let them. Sure the drinks industry is built on that fact

    Agree completely.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    The Oireachtas Justice Committee is also holding investigations into head shops and will probe if they can be banned.

    this is the part that really gets me i couldnt care less if they are banned or not but the fact eh goverment is looking at weather or not something can be banned instead of weather or not it SHOULD be banned speaks volumes imo


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The issue was raised by concerned parents whose children were buying these so called legal highs. There was also huge concern for the locations of some of these stores around the country, with many apparently being located near schools.

    id love to see evidence of one of these shops being 'near' a school city center does not count as being near a school just because there are schools in the city center


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,531 ✭✭✭Taxipete29


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    id love to see evidence of one of these shops being 'near' a school city center does not count as being near a school just because there are schools in the city center

    You do realise that there are other parts of this country other than Dublin??

    The instances of shops near schools were from towns outside Dublin. Apparently in one instance it is actually right beside the school.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,749 ✭✭✭✭wes


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The first action should be to regulate them to stop them serving children. This solves the most immediate problem in my opinion.If adults want to get off their heads let them. Sure the drinks industry is built on that fact

    That would make a lot more sense imho. If Adults want to try some random crap to get high, more power to them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,745 ✭✭✭Eliot Rosewater


    I find the ban-the-head-shops response to the whole situation totally irrational.

    So the head shops are put on fire, and one of the most probable theories is that it was done by drug dealers who rightly fear that their business is threatened. The response by some has been to ban head shops. Which will obviously push consumers towards towards the illegal market.

    So it all comes down to this: we have a choice between giving customers to the head shops or to the people burning down head shops. Seems a bit of a no-brainer to me.


    Unless you're living on planet Zog, its obvious drugs will be bought and sold anyway. Allowing the kind of people who are willing to burn down their competitors buildings to have full control of the drugs market is ridiculous.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 289 ✭✭bildo


    Banning things does not make them go away.
    It never has and it never will.
    If this is a problem for any reason, we need to be grown up about it as a country and tackle the problem.
    By banning more and more substances we are only putting more potential products and therefore profits directly into the hands of drug dealers.
    This is extremely counter productive no matter what your opinion is regarding headshops and their wares.
    Banning things equates only to socially ignoring them and hoping that they'll go away which they never do.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    This has been a huge issue since long before that fire on Capel street.
    I’ll have to take your word for it. I stress that this is purely from my own perspective, but (for example) that shop on Capel Street had been there for years, without provoking any incident or large-scale protest (as far as I’m aware – I’m open to correction), it get’s burned down and then BANG – ‘Let’s ban the head shops’. Needless to say, that wouldn’t be the most mature of responses.
    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    The first action should be to regulate them to stop them serving children. This solves the most immediate problem in my opinion.If adults want to get off their heads let them.
    Yeah, absolutely. Stick some age restrictions and health warnings on the substances in question and then everyone’s happy except the gangland scum. Perfect.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Taxipete29 wrote: »
    You do realise that there are other parts of this country other than Dublin??

    The instances of shops near schools were from towns outside Dublin. Apparently in one instance it is actually right beside the school.

    assuming i was talking about dublin is your ignorance not mine buddyand as i said id still like to see proof and no more apparantly this apparently that

    i have no problem with regulation just automatic banning of things some of which are simple vitamins ffs


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 Roibead


    I agree with banning them as this is another step in the ladder to becoming another Amsterdam, they attract unnecessary attention from people looking for a "high" and the fact is I watched one day when several cars at one of the shop pulled up and bought there "stuff" and drove off.

    Are these people committing an offence if they drive whilst under this influence as it is not covered in law, as it is neither Drink Driving or Drug driving as that is in relation to both Prescribed and illegal drugs, which bracket does the head crap fall into and yes it would be dangerous for people to be driving with this stuff in there system.


  • Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Roibead wrote: »
    I agree with banning them as this is another step in the ladder to becoming another Amsterdam, they attract unnecessary attention from people looking for a "high" and the fact is I watched one day when several cars at one of the shop pulled up and bought there "stuff" and drove off.


    I saw a guy once buy a bottle of whiskey and a slab of cans in Tesco and get into his car and drive off. I didn't think for the life of me that he would be drink driving, but that's just how my mind works.


    What a Joe Duffy argument of the highest tripe. The undisputable fact is, you have no idea where these people are doing "there stuff".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 19 Roibead


    No need to be smart and to put it in a nutshell this is selling of now "Legal" dangerous untested drugs.

    Personally if every last one of these shops was burnt down I would be happy as long as nobody gets hurt.

    My 2 cents.


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  • Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Roibead wrote: »
    No need to be smart and to put it in a nutshell this is selling of now "Legal" dangerous untested drugs.

    Personally if every last one of these shops was burnt down I would be happy as long as nobody gets hurt.

    My 2 cents.


    Like the staff that lose their jobs, the tax that these companies give, the drug-dealers that will find their profits soaring.

    There is no such thing as nobody getting hurt.

    If anything, headshops have proven how legalisation and regulation are nothing but a good thing. Take the power and the product away from the dealers on the street.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,638 ✭✭✭PeakOutput


    Roibead wrote: »
    Are these people committing an offence if they drive whilst under this influence as it is not covered in law, as it is neither Drink Driving or Drug driving as that is in relation to both Prescribed and illegal drugs, which bracket does the head crap fall into and yes it would be dangerous for people to be driving with this stuff in there system.

    there is no law stopping people driving under the influence of illegal drugs i can drive around high all day if i want with no risk of legal ramifications
    in a nutshell this is selling of now "Legal" dangerous untested drugs.

    how do you know they are dangerous? whats in what is being sold? do you know?

    in a nutshell you have no idea what you are talking about

    first step to becoming like amsterdam haha what a joke, most of the westernised world is decriminalising pot weventually we will cop on and follow suit and once that is shown to be not the end of days asmost people think it would be hopefully their ignorance to everything else will lessen


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    What is interesting about the government reaction is the conceptual reasons that they ban 'drugs' in the first place.

    The stated reason is that the chemical reactions the body has to narcotics are dangerous and as such, certain drugs are banned (or technically the chemicals within). As such, surely the head shops are a happy medium? Synthesised, safer, highs manufactured in laboratory conditions that are taxed and not sold to minors. Surely thats a good thing?

    Unless the problem is the idea of someone putting something in a cigarette to relax, taking a pill to dance all night or snorting a powder to give an energy burst.

    This is simply a blue rinse brigade attack on youth culture. No more no less. No surprise that that right wing reactionary catholic nutter Aherne's fingerprints are all over it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,382 ✭✭✭✭AARRRGH


    What is interesting about the government reaction is the conceptual reasons that they ban 'drugs' in the first place.

    The stated reason is that the chemical reactions the body has to narcotics are dangerous and as such, certain drugs are banned (or technically the chemicals within). As such, surely the head shops are a happy medium? Synthesised, safer, highs manufactured in laboratory conditions that are taxed and not sold to minors. Surely thats a good thing?

    Unless the problem is the idea of someone putting something in a cigarette to relax, taking a pill to dance all night or snorting a powder to give an energy burst.

    This is simply a blue rinse brigade attack on youth culture. No more no less. No surprise that that right wing reactionary catholic nutter Aherne's fingerprints are all over it.

    I agree.

    The basic problem is humans are emotional creatures and unfortunately most are a bit thick.

    If you think about risk logically, it is clear things like religion are drastically more dangerous than things like legal highs -- how many people have died because of religion (Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel, etc.) and how many people have died because of legal highs?

    Even if we forget about religion ('cause the blue rinse brigade would never understand that one) how many people die due to illegal drug dealing and how many people die to legal highs? Maybe I have my facts wrong but I don't think the legal high shop owners are doing gangland killings.

    In fact, I would bet money that NAMA is more dangerous than legal highs. The former most definitely will damage or even destroy many lives, whereas the latter will make a few teenagers do stupid things.

    In a nutshell, it's ****ing retarded.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 844 ✭✭✭Elevator


    Roibead wrote: »
    I agree with banning them as this is another step in the ladder to becoming another Amsterdam, they attract unnecessary attention from people looking for a "high" and the fact is I watched one day when several cars at one of the shop pulled up and bought there "stuff" and drove off.

    Are these people committing an offence if they drive whilst under this influence as it is not covered in law, as it is neither Drink Driving or Drug driving as that is in relation to both Prescribed and illegal drugs, which bracket does the head crap fall into and yes it would be dangerous for people to be driving with this stuff in there system.

    How many cars are parked outside the pubs most evenings?? Are we to presume that you are also watching this new trend of people driving to where they need to go and when they're finished they just drive off?? Absolutely despicable it is :p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭OhNoYouDidn't


    Roibead wrote: »
    I agree with banning them as this is another step in the ladder to becoming another Amsterdam, they attract unnecessary attention from people looking for a "high" and the fact is I watched one day when several cars at one of the shop pulled up and bought there "stuff" and drove off.

    Are these people committing an offence if they drive whilst under this influence as it is not covered in law, as it is neither Drink Driving or Drug driving as that is in relation to both Prescribed and illegal drugs, which bracket does the head crap fall into and yes it would be dangerous for people to be driving with this stuff in there system.

    Riobeard, I am sure there are legitimate arguments against head shops, but that simply isn't one of them.

    Its like saying you shouldn't be allowed drive to Powercity in case you turned on your new telly in the car and got distracted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,783 ✭✭✭slimjimmc


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    there is no law stopping people driving under the influence of illegal drugs i can drive around high all day if i want with no risk of legal ramifications

    Actually there are 2 laws as per the Road Traffic Act 1961
    49.—(1) A person shall not drive or attempt to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle in a public place while he is under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of the vehicle.
    [GA]
    (2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) of this section shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable on summary conviction to imprisonment for any term not exceeding six months or, at the discretion of the court, to a fine not exceeding one hundred pounds or to both such imprisonment and such fine.
    50.—(1) In this section "unfit to drive" means under the influence of intoxicating liquor or a drug to such an extent as to be incapable of having proper control of a mechanically propelled vehicle.

    (2) A person who, when in charge of a mechanically propelled vehicle which is in a public, place with intent to drive or attempt to drive the vehicle, but not driving or attempting to drive the vehicle, is unfit to drive the vehicle shall be guilty of an offence.
    However, unlike alcohol limits, the law does not have a set limit for drugs.

    You can legally drive with alcohol and/or drugs so long as (a) the alcohol is below the permitted limit and (b) your driving is not messed up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    slimjimmc wrote: »
    Actually there are 2 laws as per the Road Traffic Act 1961
    However, unlike alcohol limits, the law does not have a set limit for drugs.
    A lot of the limits are entirely up to the judges discretion, as it was in this case in Limerick where a guy got disqualified from driving for four years because of traces of cannabis that were found in his blood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Kurtosis


    PeakOutput wrote: »
    there is no law stopping people driving under the influence of illegal drugs i can drive around high all day if i want with no risk of legal ramifications
    A lot of the limits are entirely up to the judges discretion, as it was in this case in Limerick where a guy got disqualified from driving for four years because of traces of cannabis that were found in his blood.

    Point is PeakOutput cannot drive around high all day with no risk of legal ramifications. There are potential legal ramifications as pointed out above relating the Road Traffic Act. Is it so much to expect people who either take drugs/defend the taking of drugs to at least inform themselves of what the current law/situation is in this country?
    PeakOutput wrote: »
    how do you know they are dangerous? whats in what is being sold? do you know?

    in a nutshell you have no idea what you are talking about

    To be fair though, no one really knows if these products are dangerous or what is in them. Unless someone is doing some sort of home analysis on them!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭Nick_oliveri


    A lot of the limits are entirely up to the judges discretion, as it was in this case in Limerick where a guy got disqualified from driving for four years because of traces of cannabis that were found in his blood.

    Wow thats fairly ****. All those cannabis related road accidents must have had something to do with banning a guy from.........GARRGHH!!


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