Frontline 22nd Feb

omahaid

I love Bill Cullen, he's dead right. Yer one complaining about working in a call center and getting the dole?!!?!?

Degag

Watching it also. Cullen is dead right. He shouldn't be taxed extra just because he has money. He earned his money legitimately and didn't cause the problems.

ballsymchugh

omahaid wrote: »

I love Bill Cullen, he's dead right. Yer one complaining about working in a call center and getting the dole?!!?!?

very true. i'm not a fan of him but he was right. i'd be happier with €300 for working in a call centre than watching telly at home on the dole.

AARRRGH

omahaid wrote: »

I love Bill Cullen, he's dead right. Yer one complaining about working in a call center and getting the dole?!!?!?

Yep, I agree. People have become so soft.

Reginald P. DuM

Bill Cullen was a disgrace. A right p*&^k.. A room full of talented young people who have been deserted by politics and he basically abused them for being spoiled and lazy. Incredible.

mal1

Hooray for Bill!!!!

Sick of those lefty trade union moans spoiling my Monday but alas Bill came along:)

Koloman

Bill for Taoiseach with Michael O'Leary as Tanaiste!

expectationlost

call centers are devils incarnate places, that sap your soul and usually near to fraud.

AARRRGH

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

Bill Cullen was a disgrace. A right p*&^k.. A room full of talented young people who have been deserted by politics and he basically abused them for being spoiled and lazy. Incredible.

I disagree. He was pointing out:

a) People in Ireland have always had huge challanges, so what's happening now is nothing new.
b) You have to do what you can to get where you want to go, for example, work for minimum wage just to get experience.

I hate the entitlement culture Ireland has and agree with Bill 100%.

omahaid

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

Bill Cullen was a disgrace. A right p*&^k.. A room full of talented young people who have been deserted by politics and he basically abused them for being spoiled and lazy. Incredible.

He might be a right prick but students are coming out with crazy degrees and crazy expectations, they are expecting others to get them jobs.

JonathanAnon

I dont know how he can say that an architect who cant get a job is lazy. I do work for a solicitors firm, and they are down to a third of their existing staff, never mind taking on people on work experience.

I agree with a lot of what he says in general, but he is being far too simplistic on this issue.

The students on the whole are very impressive, good speakers and confident. Wish I'd had as much confidence when I got my degree... eh .. three,... eh .. years ago..

baalthor

The audience seems to be composed of three groups:

1. Unemployed architects

2. Members of the Tooting Popular Front - Clondalkin Branch

3. Dublin Airport Authority Director Bill Cullen


I remember these "young people are our greatest resource" programs from the 80s recession; things haven't changed that much except we had the Pope come over and tell us we were great: "Yaaung people of Ireland, I love you!"

Frankly, the opinions of young people aren't that much different from the opinions of middle aged people.

gerard65

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

Bill Cullen was a disgrace. A right p*&^k.. A room full of talented young people who have been deserted by politics and he basically abused them for being spoiled and lazy. Incredible.

+1. He was always was a big mouthed tosser. So people should work for nothing. Thats called slavery and was abolished some time ago.

omahaid

I have a friend with a masters who tells me she cant get a job and is actively looking. I asked her "Did you send your CV to McDonalds yet?", answer was "no".

I put it to her that she wasn't actively looking for a job in that case and she's not the only one like that.

Degag

Reginald P. DuM wrote: »

Bill Cullen was a disgrace. A right p*&^k.. A room full of talented young people who have been deserted by politics and he basically abused them for being spoiled and lazy. Incredible.

But he is right. We have no god given right to a job, we must work for it. He is the most qualified person in that room to talk about it tonight. At a certain point, people have to stop complaining about their difficulties and just get on with things. If people have to emigrate, they should just do it. People had to do it before and will have to again. The world won't stop spinning just because we are in difficult times.

omahaid

gerard65 wrote: »

+1. He was always was a big mouthed tosser. So people should work for nothing. Thats called slavery and was abolished some time ago.

Its not for nothing, its for decent experience for their CV's to get a decent job. If you are serious about getting a good job then you shouldn't be afraid to work for it.

mal1

I'm sick of listening to graduates from masters degrees (like the girl in the audience). They were the ones who couldn't face being unemployed a couple of years ago so they continued in college. Moaning now because things are 10 times worse now.

baalthor

From a TV POV, I think the program is a setup.

People were invited on to complain about the government and then ambushed by Bill.

As I mentioned above, we had these kinds of discussion in the 80s with the same opinions being expressed: entreprenoors telling us to get of our asses v Dave Spart types calling for the proletariat to rise up and overthrow capitalism etc.

What actually happened is that lots of people emigrated ...

Sorry if I sound a little cynical ...

mike65

Some of them plonkers are from boards.ie I believe.

omahaid

mike65 wrote: »

Some of them plonkers are from boards.ie I believe.

Bunch of hippies, get a job!!! *shakes fist*

tinkerbell

Bill Cullen is dead right. I am so sick of this whole "entitlement" culture. And I was furious when that guy started going on about Bill Cullen and all his money and how he has too much of it. FFS just because Bill Cullen earns millions, he should just give it all away as tax so that he can earn the same amount as a normal person? It's just so bloody stupid, these people are idiots!

Like they expect people who earn a lot of money should pay even more tax? For god sake, get a grip. People who are in the high earning bracket, pay 50% tax on everything they earn over €36k. So they should pay even more? I mean they are paying enough already and what do they get for it? Nothing!

Argh! :mad:

Now one thing I didn't agree with was Bill Cullen telling the guy with the €2k mortgage that he should work for free to get experience - sorry, but it's just not possible. He has to get some kind of a job / any job to help cover that kind of a monthly outgoing in fairness.

*sigh* Here we go again ... bailing out the banks. Hello people we need the banks to keep this country going! No banks = country collapses.

Vorsprung

tinkerbell wrote: »

Bill Cullen is dead right. I am so sick of this whole "entitlement" culture. And I was furious when that guy started going on about Bill Cullen and all his money and how he has too much of it. FFS just because Bill Cullen earns millions, he should just give it all away as tax so that he can earn the same amount as a normal person? It's just so bloody stupid, these people are idiots!

Like they expect people who earn a lot of money should pay even more tax? For god sake, get a grip. People who are in the high earning bracket, pay 50% tax on everything they earn over €36k. So they should pay even more? I mean they are paying enough already and what do they get for it? Nothing!

Argh! :mad:

Now one thing I didn't agree with was Bill Cullen telling the guy with the €2k mortgage that he should work for free to get experience - sorry, but it's just not possible. He has to get some kind of a job / any job to help cover that kind of a monthly outgoing in fairness.

+1

People like that commie who had a go at Bill forget quickly that it is the huge taxes that he pays that fund things like grants (limited though they are) for struggling students.

Godge

Bill was the only one talking sense.

Expectations are too high. People have trained for jobs that are not there and will never be there. Architects, apprentices (electricians, plumbers etc), Estate Agents, Conveyancing lawyers, those jobs are gone. They need to look elsewhere.

ballsymchugh

you have to remember that most of the audience that went to university went for 'free'.
apart from registration fees that creeped higher over the years, they were still a fraction of the fees that were paid before they were scrapped. if they weren't scrapped, maybe the graduates wouldn't have such a sense of entitlement? people will never appreciate what is given to them for 'free'.

omahaid

tinkerbell wrote: »

Now one thing I didn't agree with was Bill Cullen telling the guy with the €2k mortgage that he should work for free to get experience - sorry, but it's just not possible. He has to get some kind of a job / any job to help cover that kind of a monthly outgoing in fairness.

*sigh* Here we go again ... bailing out the banks. Hello people we need the banks to keep this country going! No banks = country collapses.

Ya, agree there, young families will suffer more than the graduates who have no families.

Whats the difference between emigrating to work for a few years and going travelling around the world for a few years? People lament the emigrants but I know countless grads gone to canada and australia for years and no one sheds tears.

Degag

That person had a point in a roundabout way. Rich Nationals who base themselves in Monaco etc. should be taxed. Iunderstand that there was some change in the last budget regarding this but it sickens me to see people like Bono pay no tax in this country yet lecture us about the amount of aid we pay.

mal1

Big smiley faces in the audience when the comments came in about Revolution and taking to the 'streets'. Where did they get that lot from?

I'm off to bed, some of us have to work in the morning.:p

baalthor

tinkerbell wrote: »

Now one thing I didn't agree with was Bill Cullen telling the guy with the €2k mortgage that he should work for free to get experience - sorry, but it's just not possible. He has to get some kind of a job / any job to help cover that kind of a monthly outgoing in fairness.

*sigh* Here we go again ... bailing out the banks. Hello people we need the banks to keep this country going! No banks = country collapses.

Bill seemed to be suggesting that the guy leave the country and do a runner from his debt ...

efb

tinkerbell wrote: »

Bill Cullen is dead right. I am so sick of this whole "entitlement" culture. And I was furious when that guy started going on about Bill Cullen and all his money and how he has too much of it. FFS just because Bill Cullen earns millions, he should just give it all away as tax so that he can earn the same amount as a normal person? It's just so bloody stupid, these people are idiots!

Like they expect people who earn a lot of money should pay even more tax? For god sake, get a grip. People who are in the high earning bracket, pay 50% tax on everything they earn over €36k. So they should pay even more? I mean they are paying enough already and what do they get for it? Nothing!

Argh! :mad:

Now one thing I didn't agree with was Bill Cullen telling the guy with the €2k mortgage that he should work for free to get experience - sorry, but it's just not possible. He has to get some kind of a job / any job to help cover that kind of a monthly outgoing in fairness.

*sigh* Here we go again ... bailing out the banks. Hello people we need the banks to keep this country going! No banks = country collapses.

How would a recent graduate have a mortgage?

Am I the only one who realised the payments were too high a proportion of my income?

Why do people on less than €30K have a mortgage?

Vorsprung

Degag_ wrote: »

That person had a point in a roundabout way. Rich Nationals who base themselves in Monaco etc. should be taxed. Iunderstand that there was some change in the last budget regarding this but it sickens me to see people like Bono pay no tax in this country yet lecture us about the amount of aid we pay.

I agree that it is a bit sick. But there's nothing any us can do about it because whatever we might think about it - it's only a distraction. And in fairness a lot of time is wasted on that subject!

shabbyalonso

baalthor wrote: »

Bill seemed to be suggesting that the guy leave the country and do a runner from his debt ...

Working for free is obviously a very hard thing to do but it's something that the guy could consider having thought of all options as in:
Could I rent a room(s) in my property (I'm sure it's something more than a 2 bed given he's paying E2k a month for it) to help towards payments while working for free?: Am I entitled to benefits if I work for free, as opposed to going back to paid employment per se?: Could I work in X company for free, with hours/arrangement worked out with said employer therefore allowing me to take on a part time evening job delivery pizzas, for e.g, for extra income?

I don't claim to know the answers to these questions or to know the guys circumstances but people need to think beyond the obvious in a bid to make things better if at all possible. We've been used to an expensive but very comfortable way of life for a very long time and the thoughts of having to accept less, I feel, is not something that alot of people want to accept. May happen in time given things look set to continue as they are.

baalthor

efb wrote: »

How would a recent graduate have a mortgage?

Am I the only one who realised the payments were too high a proportion of my income?

Why do people on less than €30K have a mortgage?

The audience was supposed to be composed of people under 30, many of whom have large mortgages. However this topic wasn't really explored at all in the program.

Liveit

If I was in that audience unemployed, I would have asked Bill for a job! I would work for nothing if I was in their position. What have they got to lose by working for nothing if there are no other possibilities?

cson

efb wrote: »

How would a recent graduate have a mortgage?

Am I the only one who realised the payments were too high a proportion of my income?

Why do people on less than €30K have a mortgage?

To be honest the Government should be shouldering the blame for creating this culture that people think they should be bailed out on their mortgages because the Government bailed out the banks. Both parties (banks and people like the man with the 2k mortgage) should have been let fall on their swords. It's a complete ****ing abdication of responsibility to be quite honest.

Godge

baalthor wrote: »

The audience was supposed to be composed of people under 30, many of whom have large mortgages. However this topic wasn't really explored at all in the program.

It doesn't say much for that generation that they took out such huge mortgages without any consideration for how they would repay it.

I had many opportunities to re-mortgage and invest in property particularly about 6-7 years ago but I realised I wasn't getting in at the bottom so apart from my own house I don't have any property.

I was in my mid-thirties at the time and I had the sense and the foresight. Those who have bought since then were incredibly short-sighted.

QuiteInterestin

I agree with some of the previous posters, Bill Cullen was talking alot of sense. The entitlement culture that exists among some young people makes me embaressed to be a young Irish graduate at the moment. While a degree may be a requirement for certain jobs, it doesn't automatically entitle you to one, you still need alot of other skills to get and hold down a job though this seemed to be lost on those in the audience.

While the Construction bust may have contributed to alot of job losses, you can't avoid the fact that there is a worldwide recession on and Ireland, like many other countries, is being effected and you can't blame the government for that. None of the people questioned bothered to mention that their years in college and the grants they would have received, were funded by the Irish taxpayer yet were all too quick to blame the government (not that I'm a fan of the government at the moment).

There didn't seem to be any mention of the role of colleges/universities in the amount of unemployed graduates. For example, why, when so many nurses are travelling to the UK to get work and with Ireland having a greater number of nurses per patient then in other EU countries, are there still being so many nurses trained? Same for some other professions such as teaching etc.

The Express

You always get the 'commun-it-e' sector whingers on these shows.

They love nothing more than a good finger-wagging rant at entrepreneurs, politicans, and anyone who's got off their arse and made a go at anything.

And some of them are on nice little packages themselves. Handy little 25hr a week numbers bringing in a few quid while hubby props up the shovel on a nice county council number.

Their stupid little schemes, logos, offices, endless amounts of leaflets, salaries and 'administration' is all being funded by us, the taxpayer.

Job 'clubs', domestic skills for 'young' mothers, 'write your own CV' classes are some of the nonsense they occupy themselves with.

Some of these schemes are actually warranted and valid but millions are spend on pure tripe. The spokespeople love to justify their existance by appearing on the telly with passionate jestures and butting in over the likes of Cullen.

There was none of this sh1te in our parent's time; they got up and did what they could without the need to be hugged and mollycoddled by some clown in a rented office at the taxpayers expense.

Nice work if you can get it.

mal1

mal1 wrote: »

I'm sick of listening to graduates from masters degrees (like the girl in the audience). They were the ones who couldn't face being unemployed a couple of years ago so they continued in college. Moaning now because things are 10 times worse now.

wtf? I can earn 130,000 aud in sunny Australia or I can claim the dole and leech your taxes here? Why am I a bastard for doing a masters?

Dempo1

Watched this depressing state of affairs tonight, can things get any worse. Bill Cullen is to be commended for his general success but his solutions in the real world (2010 & not the 60's,70's, 80's) are just naive. OK people back in his time had very little but equally it took little to survive, today in the real world there are real every day expenses and to be fair to those genuinely struggling, "Hardship"The two Politicians where just completely out of their depth but god bless them for allowing such self humiliation. I do sympathies with those many graduates at a cross roads but they must also know, skilled and career workers twice their ages are also on the scrap heap. Its a terrible thing to say but the Government can't do anything for them and they should while they actual can, go abroad, get work and perhaps live in the real world. It those, stuck here with massive debt, young and middle aged families and middle aged men and women who are hit hardest right now with no immediate hope of any improvements either from an employment or financial prospects

yermanoffthetv

Although I also thought Bill Cullen had a valid point, no one should expect anything handed to them on a plate, he did give me the impression of being a complete b'tard.To me it came across as "if your young and unemployed fcuk off abroad for yourself a dont be claimin the dole" Does he realise that alot of the young people leaving wont ever return.Think of everything the state invested in them in money, time & resources, then to be shipped abroad to generate taxes for some other country I mean really, that response screwed up a many a generation in this country :mad:

Id be all for the idea of the stimulis package.There is alot of potential for this country be it in green energy,medical devices,tech sector,cargo shipment hub ect. Ill tell ya one thing, the national banks wont be lending out the money for these projects so Biffo needs to get off his arse and get over to Frankfurt quick. He must be an emo, trying to cut himself out of a depression :pac:

Dempo1

Yes agreed, Bill Cullen did come across as a Belligerent ****, i don't deny his undoubted success but even he as a successful business man must realize there are better solutions than he was offering. Thought the lecturer from UL made some sense but felt the TCD Students union president did not do himself of his cause any good.

yermanoffthetv

Dempo1 wrote: »

Yes agreed, Bill Cullen did come across as a Belligerent ****, i don't deny his undoubted success but even he as a successful business man must realize there are better solutions than he was offering. Thought the lecturer from UL made some sense but felt the TCD Students union president did not do himself of his cause any good.

True, or the crowd from the Smurfit business school. Of course they wont have any problems getting a job. If you can afford the fees there you dont need a job! The guy from UL and the other entrepreneur did had some interesting points.

Dempo1

Yes agreed, the smurfit group seem to be living on a different planet, I was disappointed with Pat, i thought that women arguing with Bill Cullen was going to jump the isle and shove Pats Mike somewhere Bill would not have appreciated! LOL:)

milnerrm

was a bit disappointed about the way in which the discussion turned, for a while, away from the point and began questioning the need for politics in the first place...

although i don't like bill cullen, i do have a respect for him, he made his point with conviction, while the majority of the contributions were bland and obvious!

it was a very interesting show, however i believe they should have brought on more politicians from other parties.

Vorsprung

yermanoffthetv wrote: »

True, or the crowd from the Smurfit business school. Of course they wont have any problems getting a job.

One girl from Smurfit said that 8 out of 14 of her recently graduated class had jobs, and many of them were working for free to get experience. No problem getting a job if you're willing to bite the bullet and sacrifice in the hope for a return at some stage in the future!

97i9y3941

think it was unfair for bill to get attacked in that way,if i was in that position i would had said,fine i pack up and bring my business somewhere else and let more irish people join the dole whilst i go and pay my tax somewhere else in europe!.

and yes there was alot of hippies and swots in the crowd,with the shame of been stuck on the dole with the underskilled workers,but the underskilled/disadvantage people will stay in the country because they have no choice,like one person emailed the show its fine to get up and leave if you do not have wife and kids and mortgage over your head.

i dont think changeing gov will bring anything better,i think fg/labour would be clueless aswell in what to do,you can blame the gov for the f#ck up we are in but nobody forced you to take out a 30 year mortgage on a house .

the experice program would been something that alot of people would had jumped for,if you dont like the job then dont take it,simple..

Dempo1

Fair Points, it did go down hill after a while. I doubt though additional politicians would have made any difference, i hate to be cynical but i fear no politicians have any solutions to the current crisis. Mt personal worry is this NAMA thing and i reckon this weeks state purchase of BOI shares is the beginning of an implosion. With no credit following there is not a hope of businesses employing and i have too agree with some comments about Ireland's total dependency on the construction Boom and wasted opportunities to other sectors. I work in a sector that was once far removed from the construction Industry, now as a result of the carry on, my sector is destroyed.

97i9y3941

Dempo1 wrote: »

Mt personal worry is this NAMA thing and i reckon this weeks state purchase of BOI shares is the beginning of an implosion

i would had closed anglo myself instead of getting the taxpayer to cough up..

Dempo1

Vorsprung wrote: »

One girl from Smurfit said that 8 out of 14 of her recently graduated class had jobs, and many of them were working for free to get experience. No problem getting a job if you're willing to bite the bullet and sacrifice in the hope for a return at some stage in the future!

Yes, that was a bizarre statement. Whilst its an honorable thing to go and work for free with some sense behind such a decision, namely experience, it certainly does not pay the Bills. I think if i had to pay the fees this school charges, i would be most aggrieved at having to work for free.

Dempo1

Fred83 wrote: »

i would had closed Anglo myself instead of getting the taxpayer to cough up..

Yes absolutely, the whole Anglo thing is a disgrace although they seem to be finally getting up of their arses and registering judgments against numerous former directors. Sorry re Bill Cullen, I just felt he was very simplistic about the problems people are genuinely facing and he really did not do himself any favors in the way he came at that women behind him. Actually, just remembered that Buffoon PR guy who sat beside Bill? he was a real clown.

skelliser

If you can afford to go to smurfit ie. mammy and daddy paid, then of course you can afford to woirk for free!

That lecturer dude from UL was spot on, we need more people like him.