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De horning calves

lifelover2006

over the past few years, I have turned more and more against de horning young calves. I think it's very hard on them especially the continental breeds who sometimes don't grow any horns til maybe 3 weeks old so it's very stressful on them.

half of me thinks it nearly easier to leave them til the autume at 6-8 months and just them with the crange or the saw.

would appreciate a bit of discussion on this one as have calves ready for doing now.

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leg wax

lifelover2006 wrote: »

what is the name of this stuff. I travel a lot with my job and somethings up north too so thinking i could pick it up. I really wnat to try something different than de horning with hot iron this year

this product is not good for sucklers.:eek:

Indubitable

leg wax wrote: »

this product is not good for sucklers.:eek:

And why is that? Time consuming?

leg wax

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

And why is that? Time consuming?

if you put it on a calf you will have to keep him away from the mother otherwise if he goes to suck he will rub off the cream and the cow will get burnt and you will have a cow kicking the crap out of herself thats why caustic has been stopped for horns animal welfare

krazyklown

lifelover2006 wrote: »

what is the name of this stuff. I travel a lot with my job and somethings up north too so thinking i could pick it up. I really wnat to try something different than de horning with hot iron this year

SH Plus
sshhhh some places in the south do have it....beneath the counter of course!

adne

leg wax wrote: »

if you put it on a calf you will have to keep him away from the mother otherwise if he goes to suck he will rub off the cream and the cow will get burnt and you will have a cow kicking the crap out of herself thats why caustic has been stopped for horns animal welfare

knit a cap for the calf

;)

Indubitable

adne wrote: »

knit a cap for the calf ;)

Do i hear a dragon's den business idea coming to mind?
I will get my granny on design and production right away!
She is very old at this stage so her max production will be quite low

dar31

adne wrote: »

knit a cap for the calf ;)

premierman

kingofthe3rdyrs wrote: »

I dehorn my calves as soon as possible.

Maybe you should consider a polled breed. you can get polled bulls for alot of breeds now. I used a polled Blonde D'Aquitaine bull so only my AI calves need dehorning. Polled variations of a breed tend to be quite hard found and cost more than a normal bull

premierman,
Wonder where you got your polled blonde bull,I like blonde cattle but hate dehorning and anything for an easier life !

Rjas

asked da vet for da costic stuff for calves. he gav me a white tube wit french writting on it, and a brown paste inside, when da calves were 2 days old i clipped of a bit a hair and put on a little drop of this stuff where u could just about feel da buds and ther's no sign of horns 8 wks on. its no hassel for cow, calf or yourself

rctn1904

The Lignocaine and Adrenaline (Norocaine) that was used and excellent is no longer licensed for use in bovines. The currently licensed products (eg Willcaine)*(under Special licence -AR16) require the vet to have that special licence even though in the uk it is available without a prescription.
Willcaine requires a time lapse for anaesthetic and so is more difficult to use.
But if you are using Norocaine be aware it is an offence and any breach of the Animal Remedies Regs is a criminal offence so be very careful.
The dehorning sticks are no longer legal on animal welfare grounds.
When considering dehorning when the animals are older remember you also put you own health at risk.

galway79

rctn1904 wrote: »

The Lignocaine and Adrenaline (Norocaine) that was used and excellent is no longer licensed for use in bovines. The currently licensed products (eg Willcaine)*(under Special licence -AR16) require the vet to have that special licence even though in the uk it is available without a prescription.
Willcaine requires a time lapse for anaesthetic and so is more difficult to use.
But if you are using Norocaine be aware it is an offence and any breach of the Animal Remedies Regs is a criminal offence so be very careful.
The dehorning sticks are no longer legal on animal welfare grounds.
When considering dehorning when the animals are older remember you also put you own health at risk.

more over regulation and BS that was a great product

yessam

theroad wrote: »

came across this the other day on the web: http://www.ballinadee.com/?q=node/10
don't know if it's any good, but it looks like it might do the job. Anyone using one?

For dehorning, we give them the local anasthetic beforehand and goes fine - they don't act like they're in pain, anyway, and then aluminium spray afterwards to seal the wound - (almost) no bleeding.

Buy a proper sculling crate when you are at it, one that will hold a calf 3-4 weeks old and not hurt everone around him. That yoke would be ok for calves 3-4 days old and would break every gate you put it on. remember your calves will be at least 3 weeks old before being fit for de-horning.

De-horning with a gas de-horner is the best way to go. Have it very hot and scoop bud fully out quickly.

I must admit that is some skulling gate they have in the Australian video. Cruel though compared to de-horning being done properly

bbam

We dehorned ourselves for the first time at the weekend... New electric dehorner which worked great..
We hadn't a crate but we adjusted another setting on the skulling gate for calves and it worked a treat..

We didn't "scoop the bud fully out" this isn't recommended although I've seen it done loads...

mickos

rctn1904 wrote: »

.
The dehorning sticks are no longer legal on animal welfare grounds.
When considering dehorning when the animals are older remember you also put you own health at risk.

There is 1 company with a dehorning paste available again, but only as a POM remedy. They only got a limited licence from what I'm told for 500 tubs. There is another company which has been supplying SHplus paste illegally ever since the ban came in.
Personally I can't see why the product was banned in the 1st place, surely its no more of a distress on the calf than using a dehorning iron heated to 700 or 800 degrees.

LostCovey

mickos wrote: »

There is 1 company with a dehorning paste available again, but only as a POM remedy. They only got a limited licence from what I'm told for 500 tubs. There is another company which has been supplying SHplus paste illegally ever since the ban came in.
Personally I can't see why the product was banned in the 1st place, surely its no more of a distress on the calf than using a dehorning iron heated to 700 or 800 degrees.

I have seen calves DESTROYED with it. It's not great even in experienced hands.

Chemical burn, thermal burn - there's not a lot to choose. I think I would prefer the thermal burn, over in a minute. That other stuff burns them for days, runs down their face and burns the cow (in the wrong hands). Or doesn't work because not enough was used.

I hate it. I used to use caustic in the good ol' days, it was better, but not much.

LostCovey

bogman_bass

in my experience the electric irons are the best job. Gas irons dont seem to get as hot.

and that is some crush in that video, and some bear of a man doing the skulling.

that branding craic is cruel as F%$^. Reason enough for the yellow tags!

djmc

Just wondering how do ye dehorn calves the way I was thougth was to remove the bud with a gas dehorner but I remember reading somewhere that you dont have to get the bud out just burn around it
I havent tried this yet in case it does not work but it would be easier if it did on man and animal

Bodacious

red_diesel wrote: »

We do them at about 5-6 weeks, really whenever there's a bud. Terrible job, its the one job I really detest. As said above, the lesser of two evils. There's alot to be said for Angus's!! You'd imagine in this days and age they'd be able to genetically engineer so as not to produce horns.
When we do them we usually completely remove the bud. I've read you don't actually have to do this, just burn around it. Anyone do the same?

Hi,

I do alot of calves and have completely stopped gouging them out as before, a good burn direct on top in a circular motion for 10-15 seconds to leave the copper ring is sufficient and they fall off in couple of weeks. I agree its horrible across the board but minor in comparison to some skulling i've witnessed, younger the better once bud established

PANADOL

Dehorning paste anybody? (caustic soda) one application

valtra2

you could get a polled bull and you will not have any horns on calves and you can get any breed bull not just angus

John_F

valtra2 wrote: »

you could get a polled bull and you will not have any horns on calves and you can get any breed bull not just angus

find me a fresian with good milk while your at it

FarmerBarleymow

mickos wrote: »

There is 1 company with a dehorning paste available again, but only as a POM remedy. They only got a limited licence from what I'm told for 500 tubs. There is another company which has been supplying SHplus paste illegally ever since the ban came in.
Personally I can't see why the product was banned in the 1st place, surely its no more of a distress on the calf than using a dehorning iron heated to 700 or 800 degrees.

I think the calfs were rubbing it on the mother and causing burns...nasty stuff really. Been using express gas dehorner for a few years now with no trouble and very little bleeding either.

bbam

FarmerBarleymow wrote: »

I think the calfs were rubbing it on the mother and causing burns...nasty stuff really. Been using express gas dehorner for a few years now with no trouble and very little bleeding either.

Very little bleeding... should there be any bleeding at all, we don't have a very big herd but I've never seen any calves bleed after proper dehorning, we've had lads in to do it and more recently do it ourselves..

kay 9

hornstop is the way to go. Battery operated and fast. 6-8 secs per bud. Pricey but a serious job. Can only be got in the US I think..

Bigbird1

Theres a paste i use,i do them at 1 or 2 days old,great job

Muckit

Use electric dehorner at 3-4wks old. Make sure it's good and hot, 2-3 twists back and forth, then flick out bud. Scoop it out with end of scissors and onto the next.

Talkin to a guy at the inventions stand in Tullamore Show who came up with this 'ingenious' idea of making up a homemade dehorner, basically the end of a dehorner attahced to a cordless 18V drill. The heat generated from the friction when it was turned on cut out the bud without use of additional heat

bud10

For any calves that look a bit strong, we just clip them off with the toe cutter and burn the butt for a few seconda. Turns out as if done from day 1 growth, unless very strong may grow a butt.

kay 9

Hornes paste can still be got from the UK. I still think the yanks are 10 years ahead with the hornstop. Carries twice the temp of electric dehorner hence less stress to calves as it's much faster. Easier for calf and man;)

ceannfort

Does anyone have a Hornstop and what do you think of it?

kay 9

I doubt anyone here has one as they are a US based item, I'm defo going to get one for next years calves and will put a review on here. Seen some vids and it seems to be the dogs Boll****:) The idea of having a cordless one really appealed to me and the speed of it. Calves could be done at feeding as they are being born and ageing.

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