Crufts 2010 Coverage. Will you watch it or not?

stevoman

Will anyone be watching the coverage of crufts this year or be boycotting it. Im in 2 minds with what to do. Being a person who works gundogs, i find many of the entrys a complete disgrace to the breeds.

Some of the cocker and springer spaniels are a complete joke and the would be a complete insult to the breeders of old who bred these dogs to their abilitys in the field instead of their cosmetic features.

I witnessed an Irish Setter in it a few years ago and the poor creature had ears so long if he had to enter a ditch or to hunt some cover it would have had them torn to bits. Surely this isnt adding anything positive to the breed.

The same goes for the hounds. No dog should have naturally droopy eyes. If this were the case in the field, the dog would have had its eyes torn to pieces in no time.

I dont beleive im looking at this from too much of a biased point of view as i think dogs are happier doing what they were bred for or at least some sort of activity that resembles it, but to breed out the natural working abilitys and looks out of a dog for the pleasure of getting a trophy just doesnt seem right to me.

andreac

Im showing at it on the working day, showing my rottweiler, but i will watch as much of as i can when im back home.
Im there on the thursday and the friday as im showing on thursday and i have friends showing on fri so will be there both days.

Really looking forward to showing there for the first time with my first rottweiler and showdog.:D

Morganna

I will be watching defo Best of Luck Andrea

Magenta

I didn't know it was being televised, since the BBC dropped it last year.
I don't have much interest in the show side of it but I love the agility, obedience, flyball and dog dancing!

stevoman

Magenta wrote: »

I didn't know it was being televised, since the BBC dropped it last year.
I don't have much interest in the show side of it but I love the agility, obedience, flyball and dog dancing!

The BBC dropped it after a lot of breeders were exposed to be breeding horrendous abnormalitys into these dogs didnt they?
Its being shown by more 4 this year. They done a deal with the Kennel Club afaik.

andreac

Its broadcast on More4 but can be watched online too on the crufts online channel, you get to see an awful lot more this way as they cover a lot of stuff you wouldnt see on the telly so well worth a watch.

http://www.dfscrufts.tv/

Morganna

Thanks Andrea

Nyberg

I'll sky+ it, my dog loves watching it...... he actually sits right in front of the telly and follows the dogs around.

SCI

I love dogs and for that reason I wouldn't watch if it was the only thing on TV.

andreac

SCI wrote: »

I love dogs and for that reason I wouldn't watch if it was the only thing on TV.

Why do you say that?

SCI

andreac wrote: »

Why do you say that?

The Kennel Club only seem to have what the dog looks like at heart and don't seem to care but the vices these dogs are having bred into them. I'll give is a miss thanks,hopefully other people will do the same,with low viewing figures they'll give it a miss the next year too.

andreac

What kind of vices are you talking about? I own a rottweiler and show him too and am involved in it big in ireland and its not as bad as people make it out to be. Just because of what they saw on one programme, which was all one sided people think that showing dogs is terrible.

These dogs are very well cared for, fed the best of food, get lots of exercise and are very much loved by their owners. I know with my dog he is my pet first and showing is an added bonus that i do with him but he absol loves it, and that goes for most dogs that are shown.

I only have to take out my show bag and hes running for the door getting all excited. When we drive into the show grounds he cant wait to get out of the van, he loves it.

Showing is a great way to socialise your dog and get them out meeting people as well as a hobby for yourself. Ive made and met so many new friends through my dog and the shows.

I honestly believe dogs that are shown are very happy dogs. Yes some of the breed standards need to be changed and the kennel club have already made changes to certain breed standards but this will take time to come through in generations but hopefully they are moving in the right direction.

stevoman

andreac wrote: »

What kind of vices are you talking about?

The standard of the gun dog breeds and the hound breeds is a complete disgrace. Some of these "show" dogs have gone so far past what they were originally bred for that if it wasnt for the dediciation of working breeders who try and keep the oroginal characteristics and working blood in them, the would only be some of those handicapped looking dogs left.

The true fact of the matter is some of these dogs that have won rossettes in the past have been seen to have acute health problems due to their looks being enphasised over their well being when it came to breeding and all in the name of winning trophies and rosettes.

In the BBC documentry Boxers were seen to have epilepsy, spaniels were seen to have brains that were too big for their little skulls that were bred into them, whcih was a case for a prize winning king charles spaniel.

the kennell clubs breed standars are extremly bad when it comes to showing, including dwarfism in dogs, short faces and wrinkled faces which does nothing but cause probelms for the dogs health down the line.

Did anyone get a look at that documentry on pedigree dogs by the BBc that time it was aired.

Even though some highlights are being showed by More 4 this year, it was pulled from coverage by the BBC, pedigree chum its biggest spronsor walked away and the show no longer includes the backing from the RSPCA. That says a lot IMO.

I dont dispute for any minute your rottweiller is mistreated or badly bred but some of the breeds truly are and i dont think it should be fully supported until all breeds are met to a certain standard. Afaik there are 14 breeds under risk and they are the basset hound, clumber spaniel, Dogue de Bordeaux, mastiff, Neapolitan mastiff, Pekingese, shar pei, St Bernard, chow chow, German Shepherd, bulldog, bloodhound, Rhodesian ridgeback and Cavalier King Charles spaniel.

andreac

With pedigree dogs you usually have the show lines and the working lines so they will differ slightly.

I do agree that with some breeds there are problems but the kennel club have stepped in and are starting to do something about it.

The GSD is another breed that needs to be sorted out big time, its a disgrace the way the breed has gone.

I understand that you are concerned about all the health problems with pedigree dogs, but the majority of dogs at Crufts are very healthy dogs and need to be in the best health to be shown.

If you watch any of the classes you will see how happy they are and really enjoy being there.

Oh just so you know, Pedigree pulled sponsorship for Crufts alright, but they are still sponsoring Pedigree Kennel Club dog shows in the states so dont think its says too much if they are still willing to sponsor shows in other countries, was all a publicity stunt if you ask me.

Pedigree is crap anyway and i would never feed it to my dogs so its no loss really, as i doubt many show people feed their dogs pedigree.;)

TechnoPool

dam missed this thread, has it been shown already?

andreac

No Techno, doesnt start until the 11th March.

TechnoPool

cheers thanks, i really should have checked that myself.


thanks again.

Lizard Queen

im going over im not showing anything but i cant wait to go nearly 2 weeks left im really excited

andreac

What day are you going Lizard? Have you been there before?

stevoman

here's a few pics of some of the points iv been making regarding my dissatisfaction with crufts.

VERYinterested

I won't be watching it, disgusted at the antics of breeders. As well as the excellent expose, all other evidence is overwhelming. I was delighted when the BBC pulled the plug, it won't get the publicity it needs and hopefully in time more and more people will realise and see it for what it is.

Magenta

andreac wrote: »

Pedigree is crap anyway and i would never feed it to my dogs so its no loss really, as i doubt many show people feed their dogs pedigree.;)

Well la-di-da. Pedigree is owned by Waltham who also make James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin :rolleyes:

stevoman

Magenta wrote: »

Well la-di-da. Pedigree is owned by Waltham who also make James Wellbeloved and Royal Canin :rolleyes:

have to a say i agree with you magenta, although i kind of left that comment be.

i feed my dog redmills at the moment purely for performance purposes but i have fed my setter on pedigree and i have to say i never had any problems with her coat, well being or stool so i couldnt fault it.

Magenta

stevoman wrote: »

have to a say i agree with you magenta, although i kind of left that comment be.

i feed my dog redmills at the moment purely for performance purposes but i have fed my setter on pedigree and i have to say i never had any problems with her coat, well being or stool so i couldnt fault it.

You're so old-fashioned Stevoman. Get with it!

andreac

No need to be smart Magenta, i only said i wouldnt feed Pedigree and I wouldnt feed Royal Canin either , over priced imo.

Just because they own those feeds too, doesnt mean anything, they can make different quality feeds with diff ingredients to cater for whichever market they want.

Obv Pedigree would be made with cheap ingredients etc.

Magenta

andreac wrote: »

No need to be smart Magenta, i only said i wouldnt feed Pedigree and I wouldnt feed Royal Canin either , over priced imo.

Just because they own those feeds too, doesnt mean anything, they can make different quality feeds with diff ingredients to cater for whichever market they want.

Obv Pedigree would be made with cheap ingredients etc.

Don't mind me I'm just a mucksavage.

peasant

VERYinterested wrote: »

disgusted at the antics of breeders.

So am I, but it is a bit easy to just blame the breeders ...after all somebody has to buy their disfigured produce, otherwise they wouldn't be breeding them.

Glad though that the BBC pulled the coverage ..that might help to reduce demand for the more outlandish creations.

andreac

Im wondering how many people that have posted on this thread and are arguing against dog shows have actually ever been to a dog show or involved in dog shows in any way, or have been in direct contact with people that own dogs that are shown?

Or is it all from watching a few programmes on telly that was all very one sided.
Just wondering?

VERYinterested

andreac wrote: »

Im wondering how many people that have posted on this thread and are arguing against dog shows have actually ever been to a dog show or involved in dog shows in any way, or have been in direct contact with people that own dogs that are shown?

Or is it all from watching a few programmes on telly that was all very one sided.
Just wondering?

Thankfully Andrea, regardless of whether or not people have been to shows they are just as entitled to give THEIR opinion. The OP asked the question "Will you watch it or not" and people are giving their answer.

I for one have no reason to doubt the programmes I saw, the lack of response from the other side was deafening. Are you suggesting the programmes were a conspiracy? I don't recall any legal action being taken against the broadcaster. I've been to shows, saw the programme and made up my mind.

andreac

Of course and i totally respect their opinion and i even agree with some of it, esp the GSD's. they are awful and i hate seeing them at shows, its a disgrace how the standard has changed and its awful how they are allowed to keep breeding dogs like that.

I was only wondering if many people that are giving their opinions on shows etc have actually been to a dog show or have any first hand experience of dogs that are shown, i wasnt being smart, only asking a question which is related to the topic.:)

stevoman

Magenta wrote: »

You're so old-fashioned Stevoman. Get with it!

im am not! :mad:

Magenta

stevoman wrote: »

im am not! :mad:

I was joking/being sarcastic

munky101

I'll be watching, but I'll be paying particular interest in the judges decisions. The Kennel Club made big announcements about changes in the conformation judging to promote health issues with dogs, like the fat labs we're all sick of seeing, but I doubt they'll be enforced so I'll be watching out of curiosity more than anything else.

stevoman

Magenta wrote: »

I was joking/being sarcastic

i know

jen_23

stevoman wrote: »

Will anyone be watching the coverage of crufts this year or be boycotting it. Im in 2 minds with what to do. Being a person who works gundogs, i find many of the entrys a complete disgrace to the breeds.

I'm very excited to watch this. I recently started showing my samoyed so i'll be very interested to watch that group on particular.

stevoman wrote: »

Some of the cocker and springer spaniels are a complete joke and the would be a complete insult to the breeders of old who bred these dogs to their abilitys in the field instead of their cosmetic features.

I agree some breeds have been bred for cosmetic purposes only which has resulted in some awful health conditions in certain breeds in particular CKC, GSDs and pugs.

stevoman wrote: »

for the pleasure of getting a trophy just doesnt seem right to me.

Oh god it's so not for the pleasure of a trophy. Not in my case and in many others that I know showing. I'm certainly not saying there aren't people out there who show for prestigious titles but I have yet to come across someone like that in my own personal experience.
For me it's about having fun with my dog and I know several people who are like me in this thinking. We have our ringcraft classes every week without fail which Gunnar loves. He get's the socialisation and the bit of play with all the other dogs and he LOVES the shows.

Every time the judge hands over a rosette regardless of colour he automatically jumps for it out of excitement, or when the judge is going over him he'l often turn his head up and give them a sneaky lick. From the start of the day until the end his tail is usually swishing side to side having fun! And that's what it's about for most people a day out with your chum with the bonus of getting yourself out and making new friends!

andreac wrote: »

Im showing at it on the working day, showing my rottweiler, but i will watch as much of as i can when im back home.
Im there on the thursday and the friday as im showing on thursday and i have friends showing on fri so will be there both days.

Really looking forward to showing there for the first time with my first rottweiler and showdog.:D

The very best of luck Andrea - i'll be sure to be watching ye!

Nyberg wrote: »

I'll sky+ it, my dog loves watching it...... he actually sits right in front of the telly and follows the dogs around.

Awwww that's very cute!

andreac wrote: »

These dogs are very well cared for, fed the best of food, get lots of exercise and are very much loved by their owners. I know with my dog he is my pet first and showing is an added bonus that i do with him but he absol loves it, and that goes for most dogs that are shown.

I totally agree in most instances people who i've come across at shows - they live for their dogs! And the majority of dogs being shown love it themselves.

andreac wrote: »

I only have to take out my show bag and hes running for the door getting all excited.

Gunnars like that when he sees his show lead

andreac wrote: »

I do agree that with some breeds there are problems but the kennel club have stepped in and are starting to do something about it.

Exactly it's great to see them making an attempt to address the breeding standards of certain breeds.

andreac wrote: »

I understand that you are concerned about all the health problems with pedigree dogs, but the majority of dogs at Crufts are very healthy dogs and need to be in the best health to be shown.

Alot of the health problems to do with dogs lies with the breeders and not so much with the shows. Breeders have a responisibility to perform health tests on the dogs such as hip/elbow scoring and eye tests and are not doing so. It's not easy for a judge to notice these problems considering some of these ailments may not show up for many years. As far as I know (I'm pretty sure I read this recently) the kennel club is looking into mandatory health testing of all dogs and bitches that are to be bred from. I think this would go a long way in helping against the increase in health issues seen in dogs.

andreac wrote: »

was all a publicity stunt if you ask me.

Probably :rolleyes:

VERYinterested wrote: »

I won't be watching it, disgusted at the antics of breeders. As well as the excellent expose, all other evidence is overwhelming. I was delighted when the BBC pulled the plug, it won't get the publicity it needs and hopefully in time more and more people will realise and see it for what it is.

Not all breeders are irresponsible - not everyone should be tarred with the same brush. There are plenty of responsible and genuine breeders out there who perform the health tests and endorse the reg papers of the pups for showing or if the pup won't be shown have a contract to have them neutered/spayed.

If more people are educated on what to be looking for when buying pups everyone would be buying from breeders who responsibly breed and these breeders not performing health tests would soon have to start. So here's hoping!

Magenta

My issue with dog shows is that it is 99% based on appearance.
All dogs were originally bred for function.
If a Border Collie cannot herd sheep he is no use in the task he is bred for but yet he can still win rosettes based on what he looks like.
Similarly many of the Border Collies who win herding trials would be deemed "bad examples of the breed" by the Kennel Club based on their appearance. It's daft. Yes I know Crufts has Agility and Flyball etc but the dogs who win those may do miserably in the beauty aspect.
I think hunter trials etc are far more important and meaningful than how pretty a dog is and I think that the dogs should win prizes based on what they can do, not what they look like. It's the beauty pageant aspect that so many people are striving for, and destroying the dogs' health in the process.

ISDW

Magenta wrote: »

My issue with dog shows is that it is 99% based on appearance.
All dogs were originally bred for function.
If a Border Collie cannot herd sheep he is no use in the task he is bred for but yet he can still win rosettes based on what he looks like.
Similarly many of the Border Collies who win herding trials would be deemed "bad examples of the breed" by the Kennel Club based on their appearance. It's daft. Yes I know Crufts has Agility and Flyball etc but the dogs who win those may do miserably in the beauty aspect.
I think hunter trials etc are far more important and meaningful than how pretty a dog is and I think that the dogs should win prizes based on what they can do, not what they look like. It's the beauty pageant aspect that so many people are striving for, and destroying the dogs' health in the process.

I totally agree with you on that, but not all show dogs aren't fit for purpose. Due to injury, I unfortunately couldn't go on a hike that was arranged last Sunday by members of the Tails 'n' Trails club in Wicklow. One of the members on it was with his Alaskan Malamute, McCain. This dog hiked 13km up a snowy mountain with a backpack on carrying 25% of his own bodyweight. He has also just been announced as top Malamute in Ireland for 2009 by the IKC, winning shows consistently. A dog that wins at shows and is most definitely fit for purpose.:D

lrushe

I'll be having a look at Crufts this year. I find it interesting, I love learning new information about dogs so I love hearing the history of the different breeds, seeing new or rare breeds etc.
I agree that some breeds have gone too far but like someone already said if nobody bought these dogs they wouldn't exist. As the owner of a variety of different breeds and those who have past all lived to old age, I can see the other side. Its a lot less sensational to show a well bred (all health test etc. done) pedigree dogs living out a healthy, active 13+ years and dying of old age, which is what my experiences of pedigree dogs has been, but I guess its each to their own

Magenta

ISDW wrote: »

I totally agree with you on that, but not all show dogs aren't fit for purpose.

OK but many of them are not. I didn't mean that a dog can only be one or the other.
McCain sounds like an amazing dog

kildara

I will watch Crufts.
I will watch it to see all the different breeds of dogs and also other examples of 'our' breeds - also to see if there are relatives of our little one in the ring.

I also like watching the Agility when it is on.

It would be interesting to hear the opinions of those who have breeds that have been mentioned (negatively) in this post. We have a Shar Pei. Wouldn't get another, but also wouldn't change our lad for the world. Reason I would not get another is not because of anything that has been negatively introduced into the breed, but because of poor breeding by "breeders" not willing to adhere to common sense and who continue to breed a dog with health issues. These issues can then transfer down through the bloodline and offspring unknowingly bred or affected.

stevoman wrote: »

Afaik there are 14 breeds under risk and they are the basset hound, clumber spaniel, Dogue de Bordeaux, mastiff, Neapolitan mastiff, Pekingese, shar pei, St Bernard, chow chow, German Shepherd, bulldog, bloodhound, Rhodesian ridgeback and Cavalier King Charles spaniel.

Where did you get this list? I'd be interested to see what changes have been made to the breed specs in each case.

Edit to add: The Kennel Club took no interest in the welfare of dogs. To become a "KC Accredited Breeder" all you had to do was pay the annual premium. There was no health checks or otherwise carried out by the KC.
Maybe this has changed - I hope it has.

andreac

Kildara i think your info about the breeders scheme is wrong.

Here is a link to their site and the info about it:
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/item/203

kildara

Thanks for the link Andreac.
What I meant was - they don't actively carry out checks to ensure that all these recommendations are being followed (I may be wrong of course).
In fact, they state that "No automated checks can be made to ensure that Accredited Breeders are following recommendations, but all Accredited Breeders are strongly encouraged to do so."
They give a list of Breed Specific recommenations, but not all breeds are on this - so if your breed is not, you do not have to screen your stock. Seems, wrong to me tbh.

I just think they should take a more active roll in a scheme that they run.


On a side note - the very best of luck to the two of yis at Crufts!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I will certainly watch it. I know not all breeds are fit for purpose and it's all about appearance. So what if a Border Collie can't herd sheep it can still be a fine looking animal. My Rough Collies souldn't herd anything but are fabulous dogs.

I enjoy crufts. I enjoy seeing dogs shown to perfection and I enjoy getting to see the different breeds. I also love the agility tests.

Magenta

Jonah Yummy Windburn wrote: »

I will certainly watch it. I know not all breeds are fit for purpose and it's all about appearance. So what if a Border Collie can't herd sheep it can still be a fine looking animal. My Rough Collies souldn't herd anything but are fabulous dogs.

They are supposed to be a working animal, not a garden ornament.
They are supposed to have substance and brains.

crotalus667

Jonah Yummy Windburn wrote: »

I will certainly watch it. I know not all breeds are fit for purpose and it's all about appearance. So what if a Border Collie can't herd sheep it can still be a fine looking animal. .

The problem is not that they cant be used as a working dog the problem is that they have been breed for aesthetics at the expense of the health of the dog , that’s like saying so what if my car has an unreliable engine brakes that don’t work and faulty electrics at least it looks pretty

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Let's be clear on this. Not all breeds are bred at the expense of the Dog's health.

Anyway, I'll watch Cruffs if it's being shown.

andreac

Jonah Yummy Windburn wrote: »

Let's be clear on this. Not all breeds are bred at the expense of the Dog's health.

Anyway, I'll watch Cruffs if it's being shown.

I totally agree with you Jonah Yummy Windburn.:)

Most people posting on here think show dogs are all deformed, unhealthy dogs which is far from the truth.

Im sure there are a few dogs that arent in the best health, but as far as making out that all these pedigree dogs are unhealthy really is an exaggeration.

All you need to do is pop along to a show and see all these dogs and how well and healthy they look.

Magenta

andreac wrote: »

I totally agree with you Srameen.:)

Most people posting on here think show dogs are all deformed, unhealthy dogs which is far from the truth.

Nope, I just think that there should be more to a dog than how he looks in a beauty pageant.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Magenta wrote: »

Nope, I just think that there should be more to a dog than how he looks in a beauty pageant.

But, there is. Have you ever actually watched the show? There are lots of classes for agility, obedience, fieldcraft, fly-ball etc.

andreac

Magenta wrote: »

Nope, I just think that there should be more to a dog than how he looks in a beauty pageant.

But thats the thing, its a dog "Show" and it goes on how the breed looks and how close it comes to the breed standard and looks like it should and how well it moves, how good its temperament is etc etc, so why should other stuff come into it when its a show and how a dog is presented?:rolleyes:

As Srameen said, theres lots of other things to do with dogs as well, agility, obedience, field trials etc, so if you dont want to show the dog then do something else.

Magenta

Jonah Yummy Windburn wrote: »

But, there is. Have you ever actually watched the show? There are lots of classes for agility, obedience, fieldcraft, fly-ball etc.

Yes, if you actually read the thread I have already said I like the agility and flyball.

andreac wrote:

But thats the thing, its a dog "Show" and it goes on how the breed looks and how close it comes to the breed standard and looks like it should and how well it moves, how good its temperament is etc etc, so why should other stuff come into it when its a show and how a dog is presented?

Because I do not agree that a dog can be the "best of his breed" just because of how he looks. Any brain-dead dog can look pretty and trotting a dog around a ring isn't exactly rocket science :rolleyes:.
Not every dog is intelligent enough for obedience, agility etc and not every owner is skilled enough to train them for it.