Tanks in Airsoft

di11on

Hi all,

Has the subject of airsoft armour ever been discussed?

I think these guys would be really cool:



Appropriate rules for their use would have to be developed.

I've seen co2 powered nerf "rockets" that could be used as RPGs. You can also get "splat pads" for the tanks that allow them to be disabled when hit by a paintabll... I'm sure this can be adapted to simulate a sticky bomb or whatever.

Regarding safety and insurance... do people think games with these vehicles and people could work?

They come with a marshall unit allowing them to be remotely disabled. You'd probably need more rules like defined areas where tanks can/can't go. No reversing.... no inf behind/in front of tank etc.

Regarding their usefulness in-game - you mount a SAW on a bipod on top... would make an awesome anti inf weapon!

Regarding tank vs. tank combat, they can be fitted with electronic "laser" main guns (similar to laser tag, but way more accurate).

Thoughts?

Masada

I would hate to see those turning up on a site i play at,

whats the point in having a super realistic looking rifle with accessories, fancy BDU, correct vest etc etc and then someone brings in this pumped up, tactical painted version of this.




Maybe more suitable to Paintball or something where the emphasis isn't on realism as it is with us.

Stercus Accidit

Rofl, I'd love to see a mounted m249 on that yoke! /\

di11on

Lol :-)

How far do you go with the realism thing though at the expense of an additional dimension to game play.

If you had a couple of these things, I think they could add hugely to a game and introduce many varied objectives... get the armour across the bridge... take out the tank etc etc.

Insistence on ultra realism would mean potentially missing out on a whole other dimension of combat that these things could bring into the game..

To be honest... in airsoft, because of the range of BBs at 1J, you're really playing a 1/10th scale game anyway... so smaller tanks would be appropriate!

Masada

Yeah but that would be alright if we were all 1/10th scale aswell, but were not.

I think having this in a game would take more from the realism than not having it at all. maybe some speedball type games would make use of it but in general i think it goes against everything airsoft is about, Realism.


For some reason, everytime i look at it i hear "Dont worry sir, im from the internets" in my head.,

captaindanwaldo

I think it would obliterate the atmosphere we immerse ourselves in by playing with such detailed aegs and equipment but at the same time i hate the thought of denying their use solely on the fact that they arnt as realistic as id/we'd like

After all its just a game and if they happen to add to the character and provide a little humour and another direction then i may be all for it...

di11on

captaindanwaldo wrote: »

I think it would obliterate the atmosphere we immerse ourselves in by playing with such detailed aegs and equipment but at the same time i hate the thought of denying their use solely on the fact that they arnt as realistic as id/we'd like

After all its just a game and if they happen to add to the character and provide a little humour and another direction then i may be all for it...

I was thinking more that they'd add another dimension to the game play. If the rules were wuch that they were a valuable asset in the game, I think it would open up a lot of new objectives and add to the dynamic of the game.

I've played in games where a side would get bogged down and the marshalls would give a team an imaginary "air strike" or a "mortar round" to break the deadlock and get the game flowing again. Imagine, instead, that you could roll up some armour to break the deadlock. Which is more realistic?

Then anti-armour and armour cover operations would add even more objectives.

It would also add another class of unit to games where they are employed.

Inari

I'd love to see vehicles in games, but then again, I'd also love to play against Predator etc.

Realistically insurance would have a field day. I thinkt he only way vehicles could safely operate to a standard that insureres would accept would be on a rail/track system, and whereas it'd add a diverse element to the game, it'd still be lame being on a track (lest it be a train) as you couldn't adapt to the game play.

Sometimes in RL imagination trumps objects, as it means there's less constraints.

Dread-Lock

Can't really say I like the idea of people rolling around in mini tanks, but if a site wants to go out and buy these tanks, M249's and laser systems I'm not really going to complain.

Although to me its just gonna turn a skirmish into the final battle at the end of Takeshi's Castle...

Stonewolf

JFC Fuller would be proud.

Just about everyone else who influenced armoured doctrine are turning in their graves.

Masada

If a site wants to use vehicles, then do it once, do it right.


This is Pauls at HRTA, I believe the lads at MAZ have their own troop carrier too.,

If a site is going to push to make itself the best out there then investments like proper vehicles are the way forward instead of turning teh site into, as Dread said, Tekeshi's castle. their not all that expensive in a lot of cases either., If we will get a new element to the game with that mini tank thing, why not just use quad bikes? it would be more realistic as they are used in real life and they'll look a lot less childish and silly, they'll be easier to maintain and easier to buy. (Ohh look, I have one already)


Check this out too,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerrymorgan/4163167896/

PS, theres a pair of Landy's in HRTA too,

kdouglas

Plenty of vehicles at berget every year, first time there was last year and the vehicles really do add an extra element to the game.

The only problem with vehilces is you need a very large site to use them on. Otherwise it just seems pointless using the vehicle.

Also, there's the cost factor, while getting a vehicle like Paul's Saracen isn't incredibly expensive (somewhere in the 5-10k range afair), fuelling it and maintaining it can be very costly.

di11on

Ideally, real tanks, APCs and ATVs would be great. If it were possible, I'd be all for it. But:

- You'd need sites with loads of open terrain (at least passable) and orders of magntude more space.
- Would you ever have a hope of insuring them on a commercial site?
- The visibility out of some vehicles is poor and I'm sure would result in accidents. Imagine driving that APC around an airsoft site... you'd drive over half the punters without even knowing it.
- Surely the cost would be prohibitive?

The miniature tanks overcome many of those obstacles because they have been designed for this type of environment. They come with a marshal's remote unit to deactive the vehicles remotely where necessary.

There are many levels of realism. The superficial and the tactical/strategic levels. While these vehicles may not closely resemble their real life counterparts, I believe they would add a strategic level to the game that wouldn't be possible otherwise. I like your idea of real vehicles, but I couldn't ever see it being possible.

Stonewolf

I'm not in favour of these mini tanks. Use of soft skin vehicles, quads (I'm not in favour of dirt bikes even though these see actual military use), APCs I'm very much in favour of. Tanks on the other hand do not have any place in the scale of game offered by airsoft in Ireland unless as a static objective (Tank is knocked out and abandoned, charges failed to go off, secure and destroy VS 1x enemy tank please take many photographs). Now, there are a few exceptions to this and if you can get hold of one of a working example of one of the only 38 Sig33s ever built I'll totally come play on your site!!!!

Real AFVs aren't that expensive anyway, even from Irish retailers:
http://www.protac.ie/store/index.php/vehicles/chieftian-mbt.html

Spooky-Vinny

di11on wrote: »

Here guys, the Irish Main battle tank isn't far from that...


They both tiny and couldnt kill anyone if it tried. so why not? lol
joke joke!

I agree with masada, why spend sooo much on realistic gear just to get the whole feeling of being in battle without being in battle? then have a lil toy lookin job zipping by?

I'd probably crap my pants from laughter but if your gonna do a whole mini tank thing i think we should dedicate games for the whole Tekeshi's castle thing and leave airsoft aside!

or bring more realistic vehicles.

Plus the sites i'v been to are by far too small for any sort of vehicle anyways, small or large. plus with the terrain i dont think a mini tank would be able to move... at all!

my 1 dolla!

xXx

evilrobotshane

The BMP-1 at Moyvalley isn't anything to do with the business there, it's just a couple of guys who own it and use the off-road driving track to bring it for a spin. Or such is my understanding. Which is almost neither here nor there.

gungun

those yokes looks fairly crap tbh
the vids i've seen of berget have some good ways of it
the the shell made out of whatever, designed and painted like a tank although not incredibly realistic looking adds due to the size (i presume)

swiftblade

I have an old white toyota hilux sitting out back. Mount a M249 on the back of it and away you go.....:rolleyes: On a more serious, bringing vehicles into Airsoft is just going to confuse things. I mean a 10 tonne APC Driving about while playing?

ED E

Painted OD of course.

Puding

they can work but normally in large games a lot large than anything in Ireland, sites are just not suited to them in Ireland, my local site starts running with mini tanks and tbh i would not play, when they are used there normally props or for a specific scenario. But if your going to do it do it right





does help when you have a standing army how will pritty much let you rent anything bar an ICBM ( althought if you have the cash who knows )

I reckon the best compromise between realism and cost would be one of these:





Dublin Civil Defence got one recently for under 20k, so it's doable depending on the site. It is a full size vehicle, so it may be limited to insertion under fire type scenarios where it doesn't move when there's people coming out of it.

Airsoft Reloded

We have a couple of wee yokes for The Compound, they're not actual tanks but I think having real tanks on local sites is a bit mad anyway. You have to worry about someone being killed under them (and that could easily happen), your insurance (assuming you tell them) would go mad, if they would even allow it that is.

We have four basic little buggies with metal shells surounding them and a turret that spins and though which you can stick your gun. The engines are restricted so they can't go a mad speed, they are fairly small and have a good fov so its unlikely you wouldn't see someone beside you as you drive.

OzCam

di11on wrote: »

I've seen co2 powered nerf "rockets" that could be used as RPGs.

I'd absolutely love if we could use nerf grenades or similar against vehicles. Unfortunately, its not a runner because there's no way to stay under 1 joule with anything even semi-realistic that has practical range. Better minds than I have thought about it for ages and given up. Though I do have an idea which might work.

di11on wrote: »

Regarding tank vs. tank combat, they can be fitted with electronic "laser" main guns (similar to laser tag, but way more accurate).

Lasers are the only practical way to do it. They have been used in Berget games for some years now. Genuine military vehicles could work well in airsoft, but only on sites that have the room – and drainage – for them. There also has to be some way to protect the paintwork and indicators etc. from BBs, otherwise the owners will be reluctant to make them available. And, of course, protect the players from the vehicles.

Vents

OzCam wrote: »

" protect the players from the vehicles."

Thats the thing right there!

nearly had the troop carier at the take aim cup run over me as I was prone during one of the time trials! scared the ****e out of me.

Stonewolf

The Scorpion isn't a Main Battle Tank, it's an Armoured Reconnaisance Vehicle.

It's not even classified as a tank.

gerrowadat

Worked well for trop insertions at Berget..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af5XwD8_Uwo

di11on

OzCam wrote:

protect the players from the vehicles

Airsoft Reloded wrote:

You have to worry about someone being killed under them (and that could easily happen), your insurance (assuming you tell them) would go mad, if they would even allow it that is.

The reason I'm suggesting these mini tanks is not because of how they look or their size, but more that they've been designed with these concerns in mind. They come with a marshal's remote unit that allows them to be deactivated remotely.

You'd have to couple this with additional rules such as defined (open) areas where tanks can/can't go and also rules like they can't reverse and no infranty in front/behind.

Personally, I can see beyond the immersion/superficial issues to the additional strategic element they could add to games.

Puding

To a lot of people immersion is everything, and tbh if a site started using the mini tanks in milsim and stuff like that it would ruin it, a can see them being fun but there more suited to paintball speedball style play and atmosphere

Masada

But you could get that from using quad bikes too and it wouldn't look as childish, the remotes thing is a little gimicky since it should be up to be the operator to call a hit, that said, I could rig up a remote cut off on pretty much anything from a nitro car to a submarine, it's just a receiver and a couple of relays.,:)

Airsoft Reloded

di11on wrote: »

The reason I'm suggesting these mini tanks is not because of how they look or their size, but more that they've been designed with these concerns in mind. They come with a marshal's remote unit that allows them to be deactivated remotely.

You'd have to couple this with additional rules such as defined (open) areas where tanks can/can't go and also rules like they can't reverse and no infranty in front/behind.

Personally, I can see beyond the immersion/superficial issues to the additional strategic element they could add to games.

I wouldn't say they are superficial issues mate, we are talking about safety here. A marshall could remotely deactivate it a few seconds to late you know?

We have defined paths where they can go, a no reverse rule and a marshall driver only rule and still we are terrified about what could happen. You can't realistically say no infantry infornt or behind them because how do they get in them then (If they can't get in them then they are useless, just ornamental)?

Puding

Masada wrote: »

But you could get that from using quad bikes too and it wouldn't look as childish, the remotes thing is a little gimicky since it should be up to be the operator to call a hit, that said, I could rig up a remote cut off on pretty much anything from a nitro car to a submarine, it's just a receiver and a couple of relays.,:)

have to a agree quads could be used but I could just see them being bb magnets and would get left behind rather fast, on a big site could be used as qrf, have some great pictures of quads in Astan will have to find them after work

fayer

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't that the transport Gerrout has booked to get us to sennybridge?

Masada

Puding wrote: »

have to a agree quads could be used but I could just see them being bb magnets and would get left behind rather fast, on a big site could be used as qrf, have some great pictures of quads in Astan will have to find them after work

Absolutely, You'd be peppered by everyone if you were using one, unless you were really giving it stick and in that case you'd be at risk of either crashing yourself or hitting someone else. I hate the red tape cr@p but unfortunately insurance would be an issue,.

For the size of most of our sites i cant really see vehicles having a real use, a good novelty but thats about it. Airsoftreloaded has a good point as far as marshalls driving them goes too, Ive seen more than enough irresponsible eejits in the game without giving them a half ton machine to be an idiot with. If Marshall's are the only ones driving them then it defeats the purpose of having a remote cut off.

di11on

Airsoft Reloded wrote: »

I wouldn't say they are superficial issues mate, we are talking about safety here. A marshall could remotely deactivate it a few seconds to late you know?

When I said superficial, I was referring to the look of things - the immersion aspect... which I still understand is a big thing for a lot of people.

Airsoft Reloded

di11on wrote: »

When I said superficial, I was referring to the look of things - the immersion aspect... which I still understand is a big thing for a lot of people.

Ah fair enough so, sorry for the misunderstanding.

sliabh

Someone briefly mentioned it further above, but the only vehicle I would like to see on a site and which would be practical is a technical. Buy an old hilux (or other pickup) that is no longer road worthy, mount a support gun on it and voila, instant strong point. The thing doesn't even have to move, and it's probably better if it doesn't.

Realistic (for immersion) and practical.

steevee

Check out www.tanksforsale.co.uk ideally on Irish sites they would be used as static props.
Check out the Lizard AA vehicle

Puding

Masada wrote: »

Absolutely, You'd be peppered by everyone if you were using one, unless you were really giving it stick and in that case you'd be at risk of either crashing yourself or hitting someone else. I hate the red tape cr@p but unfortunately insurance would be an issue,.

For the size of most of our sites i cant really see vehicles having a real use, a good novelty but thats about it. Airsoftreloaded has a good point as far as marshalls driving them goes too, Ive seen more than enough irresponsible eejits in the game without giving them a half ton machine to be an idiot with. If Marshall's are the only ones driving them then it defeats the purpose of having a remote cut off.

as promised for a bit of fun

Masada

jeezzz, how pathetic does this look, not bad enough we play dress up and pew pew, but this, rofl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mILNFJcLmlg

thebillynator

^^^^^ ah hahahahahahahaha what a piece of sh...... ahem thats terrible wont do atall



you have to admit it would be fun to drive though:P

Puding

Masada wrote: »

jeezzz, how pathetic does this look, not bad enough we play dress up and pew pew, but this, rofl.

ow dear :rolleyes:

jeawan

Puding wrote: »

as promised for a bit of fun

]

I need to paint my Quad desert camo and it be like the first quad which looks pretty cool tbh .
Quads in Airsoft would be allot of fun biggest problem would be speed though and people maybe turning them over if they driving too fast especially the 4x4 farm ones

Puding

would look good, but best not to quote pictures takes up way to much room well all of them at least

Firekitten

Those aren't tanks...


This is a tank.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTKMcSvcXeE

In game mounted m249, carries 8 inside, or an extra 8 on the roof. Occasionally likes to eat cars.

I believe the term you're looking for my friends, is 'flash as fook'

Stonewolf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-iWuK1xJsU

04:20 to cut to the action but really you want to start at 1:50

Firekitten

Im not quite sure if I understand that last post... If you're trying to take the piss, it failed.

Spooky-Vinny

people! Don't forget the children... they'd get run over without a doubt! Unless you did a whole age limit to use vehicles on that day, but then you'd havto give warning in advance to tell what age cant play that day... but thats not very nice...
our team has 3 little ninjas and they must play, as they make our team what it is. but i would fear for theyr safety if anything on wheels or tracks was on the field mobile!
xXx

Firekitten

Actually the gunner there is the site owners 13 yearold son... Kids were never a problem at our site. We operated a clear 5m distance rule around the vehicle when operating, and a loadmaster observing the rear when loading/ unloading troops to keep things safe. The distance was upped to 10 in motion, but the m249 on top kept that DEFFINALTELY in force. Plus, all people onboard had to wear helmets. Things were safe, and age never became a concern during the years of operation with that beastie.

Spooky-Vinny

but what if it was younger again? i can imagen heart attacks happening left right and centre!
plus i don think ireland can fit a quad bike let alone a APC or somthing.
so i guess theres nothing to worry!
Strat points with a old bummed out armoured Vehicle would be pretty kick ass to the max though! Start considering site owners
xXx

OzCam

Puding wrote: »

Judging by the beard & MultiCam, that's someone's Special Forces. I'm going to go for New Zealand because of the Steyr mags on his vest. They've been seen in MC previously. Nice to see the backpack continuing the LRDG/SAS tradition of using pink camo in deserts.

Firekitten

What if its younger again?

I'm not honestly sure under 13s should be playing this...
It's far too dangerous a sport without vehicles., and if they are, to be playing with other under 13s with lower fps weapons and apropriate protection and supervision...
Not adults that could well barge into them and hurt them accidentally, or cause alegations of things we dont want to go into through misunderstanding or otherwise.

I simply pointed out that there are tanks in airsoft beside the humourous paintball contraptions and garden shed monstrosities... check out berget too