Pace of New A4 group.

Flankerb

Anybody have a rough idea of what the pace is going to be like in the new A4 group?
What would the normal cruise speed of the group be and start/finish pace.
Is it going to be comparable to S3 speeds. Has any of ye competed in one of the first races.

Raam

I think the first race is in Dundalk this Sunday. My expectation is that it will be much like S3 was last year, or so I'm told.

Flankerb

Cheers Raam what sort of speeds are we looking at? I am coming from the slow end of club league myself and dont want drown.

Raam

Hmm, 35kph+
That's a guess. Depends on the course I guess.

Billy Whizz

It will be slower than last year's S3.

Don't bring your expensive carbon bike...

Raam

@Billy: you reckon it's gonna be that bad?!

Flankerb

Thanks Raam I might dip me toe in.

Flankerb

Cheap Aluminium frame carbon fork but very expensive helmet just in case.

Billy Whizz

Raam wrote: »

@Billy: you reckon it's gonna be that bad?!

Who knows?! Race bikes/wheels should be locked up for another couple of weeks anyway .

Raam

Billy Whizz wrote: »

Who knows?! Race bikes/wheels should be locked up for another couple of weeks anyway .

At this rate, I'll never get to race my good bike again.

RobFowl

Raam wrote: »

At this rate, I'll never get to race my good bike again.

Which one is that again ?

Raam

RobFowl wrote: »

Which one is that again ?

The one I won't be bringing

Quigs Snr

Average pace is irrelevant. You will be doing 30kph on minute and 55 on the flat the next depending on what is going on in the race. Being able to adjust to changes in pace is more important than being able to ride any kind of average speed. Good luck.

jdt101

First race in the southern part of Ireland is the Lacey Cup in Tralee next Sunday.

I think the A4's will get a handicap of a couple of minutes, so probably will be caught by the A3's soon enough. If your fit enough you will join the A3's. I expect an average of 40kph or so, depending on hills, for A4 Cat.

I intend using my good bike (weather permitting), keep at front to avoid any stupid crashes...

+1 on speed change, that is the real killer.

Quigs Snr

If I was an A4 in the Lacey cup, and I might well be, am half thinking of it despite very little training since xmas, I would be inclined to try drive the pace in the first 30k to get over that KOH before the S3's come up.... Long way to the finish if you get shelled on that one. I think I last did that one in 2008 and remember it being a breeze right until I was caught by the A group midway up the final climb. Winter bike all the way for me though, the real bike will not be coming out till I can do it justice (which should be in around 6kg's time).

lukester

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Winter bike all the way for me though, the real bike will not be coming out till I can do it justice (which should be in around 6kg's time).

I'd happily have your winter bike as my real bike.

jdt101

Quigs Snr wrote: »

If I was an A4 in the Lacey cup, and I might well be, am half thinking of it despite very little training since xmas, I would be inclined to try drive the pace in the first 30k to get over that KOH before the S3's come up.... Long way to the finish if you get shelled on that one. I think I last did that one in 2008 and remember it being a breeze right until I was caught by the A group midway up the final climb. Winter bike all the way for me though, the real bike will not be coming out till I can do it justice (which should be in around 6kg's time).

So Quigs, it's you and me to launch an A4 attack from the start...

jdt101

Here is my data from the race today, managed to get in a break and stayed out for about 60k, until caught by the A's. I was in the A4 bunch.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/25753519

Murph100

Well done, JDT that was bloody massive going !

jdt101

Murph100 wrote: »

Well done, JDT that was bloody massive going !

Cheers, must be the tubeless tyres...

Flankerb

Well done JDT, Thats the sort of data I was after. But where is the cadence and power meter data I know its only A4 race but come on splash the cash.
How many in the a4 group?
Thanks Karl

Murph100

Feck, I forgot about that !

Of course it was all down to the tyres....yeah right !!

I was thinking of entering a few weeks back, seeing as I live just below the road on that last climb an' all. When I saw the pace of ye flaking up that hill today, I realised I made the right decision to give it a skip, otherwise it would have been a report on tubeless from the wrong end of the race

jdt101 wrote: »

Cheers, must be the tubeless tyres...

IM0

Quigs Snr wrote: »

Average pace is irrelevant. You will be doing 30kph on minute and 55 on the flat the next depending on what is going on in the race. Being able to adjust to changes in pace is more important than being able to ride any kind of average speed. Good luck.

exactly, also sprint speeds will be in and around the 60-65km/hr mark too

Plastik

70k in 2 hours!!! Jebus. Took me 4h to do 87k today!

IM0

Plastik wrote: »

70k in 2 hours!!! Jebus. Took me 4h to do 87k today!

yep its called racing for a reason

Plastik

me@ucd wrote: »

yep its called racing for a reason

Is there an OAP category that I may be eligible for!?

blorg

Plastik wrote: »

70k in 2 hours!!! Jebus. Took me 4h to do 87k today!

It is so much easier to average that sort of speed in a group, you can't compare to average speeds solo.

Although, comparing, it would be tougher than 87k in 4 hours.

Flankerb

Thanks lads Hmmm might try the Cycleways Cup next week. How do you enter is it a case of just showing up on the morning and signing on. Whats the usual entry fee?

Quigs Snr

10 euro is standard entry fee, if you have a racing license. If you don't you could previously buy a one day license for 10 also making it 20 to enter overall. Not sure what they did with the one day license in the end, there was talk of changing it.

jdt101

me@ucd wrote: »

yep its called racing for a reason

The climbs slow the average speed. Charleville last year was faster, less climbing, Avg. 40.4 km/hr.

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/13662533

jdt101

Flankerb wrote: »

Well done JDT, Thats the sort of data I was after. But where is the cadence and power meter data I know its only A4 race but come on splash the cash.
How many in the a4 group?
Thanks Karl

Cadence Sensor is on winter bike. Waiting to win the Lotto, before getting Power Meter.

Lumen

Quigs Snr wrote: »

10 euro is standard entry fee, if you have a racing license. If you don't you could previously buy a one day license for 10 also making it 20 to enter overall. Not sure what they did with the one day license in the end, there was talk of changing it.

In the New Grading Guidelines it says:

Cycling Ireland wrote:

1. Background and Objectives

1.1 Following the 2009 AGM a working party was established to review the competition one-day licence process so as to:

· reduce the administration burden currently placed on both commissaires and the office;
· ensure that there is accurate recording of one-day licence money;
· ensure that there is accurate recording of points awarded to one-day licence holders (resulting in them being upgraded if applicable);
· that no undue obstacles are placed in the way of a person wishing to try a race, training camp, leisure spin on a "one-off" basis;
· Have a revised system in place for 2010 season.

1.2 It should be noted that:
· A rider taking out a one-day licence is only eligible for the overall prize-fund, i.e., is excluded from category prizes;
· A rider cannot ride National Championships on a one-day licence. To ride a National Championship riders must be the holder of either a full or restricted competition licence. The discipline of the restricted licence will govern which championship can be ridden;
· There is no regulation requiring Commissaires to issue one-day licences.

2. Agreed Proposal

2.1 Responsibility for the sign-on desk (including confirmation that riders possess the correct licence for the event they are entering) and issuing of one-day licences is placed with the Race Organisers. Competitors with the appropriate current competition licence sign-on using the normal sign-on sheet.

3. Process for Competition One-day Licences

3.1 Cycling Ireland Office maintain a stock of sequentially numbered A3 One-day Licence Sheets (in duplicate).
3.2 Race Organisers request from the Cycling Ireland Office at least two weeks in advance of their event the requisite number of One-day Licence Sheets (there are 25 lines per sheet).
3.3 The Commissaire provides the Race Organiser with back numbers (back numbers are issued to Commissaires by the Regional Technical Officers) for use by one-day licence holders.
3.4 The Race Organiser returns, to the Cycling Ireland Office, the original copy of the One-day Licence Sheet along with the appropriate fee - within one week. Failure to return One-day Licence Sheets will result in the full club affiliation fee been charged the following year regardless of when the club affiliates. The One-day Licence Sheet is to be returned even if no one-day licences are issued.
3.5 The duplicate One-day Licence Sheet is returned by the Commissaire along with the Commissaire’s report and Sign-on Sheet.
3.6 The Cycling Ireland Office logs and tracks the issue and return of One-day Licence Sheets and records points obtained by riders competing under one-day licences to facilitate grading of the rider if they subsequently take out an annual licence.

The two points in bold (my emphasis) would seem to slightly contradict each other, but maybe they're just covering themselves.

Upgrading from Club Competition to a full licence (which can be done on the C.I. website) is €120, which is a bit off-putting.

Flankerb

Have my A4 already. I'd say that is a mistake.
Now all I have to do is find the right wheel on the day to tow me around.:D

IM0

jdt101 wrote: »

The climbs slow the average speed.

dont I know it! anyone who has done say a marmotte or mountain etape really knows this, a 24km/hr avg!! come on ref normally my recovery on flat ground is closer to 30, and that was with super fast close to 50k averages while descending the twisty hairpinned alpine roads! the final ascent of alpe dhuez really kills the average also, knocks another 2km/hr off the average

Quigs Snr

me@ucd wrote: »

dont I know it! anyone who has done say a marmotte or mountain etape really knows this, a 24km/hr avg!! come on ref normally my recovery on flat ground is closer to 30, and that was with super fast close to 50k averages while descending the twisty hairpinned alpine roads! the final ascent of alpe dhuez really kills the average also, knocks another 2km/hr off the average

Amen to that. I think I averaged 47kph for the first 40k of the 2006 Etape. Was down to about 23 or something towards the end. I wasn't terribly fit back then and just starting out, but I do remember that I went down the alps slower than I rode on the flats because I had blown a tire on a descent the day before due to hard breaking superheating the tyre and causing it to explode.

Toblerone1978

Quigs Snr, I know you've done a bit of racing, and going back to the original question of this thread, how would you think the A4 pace would compare to the second group in the Comeragh CC's weekly race league.

I've done a couple of those but didn't dare go near the 'real thing'. That would probably be my best way of guessing where I stand for this year's Carrick's race.

Quigs Snr

The second group in the Comeragh race is probably the equivalent of the A4 races overall (the one in Tralee I hear was about 35k and thats fairly lumpy whereas the Comeragh league races on the church hill circuit which is equally lumpy is around 37-39k in the C group - last years Carrolls cross circuit went off at about 39kph in the slow group and I have rarely encountered a Sunday C race that exceeded 40kph average by very much, some of the flat open ones might hit 42. I have been in B races that averaged 46 alright.). The Sunday races might sometimes start a little quicker for the first 10k but once it settles down its very similar to what you would have experienced already.

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over Carrick. I hear its only 2 laps for the A4's instead of the 3 it was last year for C riders. So about 65k instead of 100k. Its an easy course if you are just sitting in and trying to get around, just one little short rise towards the finish line that you won't need to get out of the 53 for, you would struggle to categorise it as a hill to be honest and thats pretty much it.

Go for it.

Toblerone1978

Cheers, I'll have to jump in at some stage. Really looking forward in doing a few races this year, assuming they won't be a disaster!!

Raam

Toblerone1978 wrote: »

Cheers, I'll have to jump in at some stage. Really looking forward in doing a few races this year, assuming they won't be a disaster!!

I fully expected my first few races to be a disaster. I wasn't disappointed!

showry

I'm hoping to make my debut this Sunday at the ripe old age of 38

Flankerb

Best of luck to all those making their debut this weekend. Let us know how ye get on.

keogh777

Flankerb wrote: »

Best of luck to all those making their debut this weekend. Let us know how ye get on.

Can you pay for a one day A4 license on the day. I only went for the time trail license this year and i heard they were not doing one day A4 in Dundalk you had to go as A3 which kinda defeats the point of A4

showry

showry wrote: »

I'm hoping to make my debut this Sunday at the ripe old age of 38

Well that was fun. I went to Broadford for the Cycle Pursuits race. The A4s had their own race but they gave the over 40s a 2 minute start and that was the last we saw of them. The pace was very stop start and the strong wind made it hard for anyone to get away. Not that I was trying, my ambition was to finish in the bunch and that's what I got. The average pace was about 36 km/h for the 55kms. We would have been averaging 40+ km/h in our club summer league but that would have been a small group working in a paceline rather than the sudden accelerations and jumps of this. I met jdt101, he was busy near the front of the bunch throughout.

jdt101

showry wrote: »

Well that was fun. I went to Broadford for the Cycle Pursuits race. The A4s had their own race but they gave the over 40s a 2 minute start and that was the last we saw of them. The pace was very stop start and the strong wind made it hard for anyone to get away. Not that I was trying, my ambition was to finish in the bunch and that's what I got. The average pace was about 36 km/h for the 55kms. We would have been averaging 40+ km/h in our club summer league but that would have been a small group working in a paceline rather than the sudden accelerations and jumps of this. I met jdt101, he was busy near the front of the bunch throughout.

Well done on your first race, showery. It was stupid giving the Vets a 2 min handicap, even they said we will not see them. This kind of stupidity by race organisers goes against the ethos of the new A4 Cat. We got the gap down to about 1 min, but it was the same faces at the front of the bunch attempting to close the gap. Good training though. BTW the sign on was €15 and not the normal €10. Race Details;

http://connect.garmin.com/activity/26375521

@showery, Banteer next week?

showry

jdt101 wrote: »

@showery, Banteer next week?

Definitely. Any idea what the format will be? Someone told me yesterday A3 & A4, presumably with a handicap.

Murph100

Hmmm I was debating if there was any advantage to registering as a Vet instead of an A4, and couldn't see any difference but this is interesting.

BTW I'm 41 so none of yer 'ould git' guff

jdt101

showry wrote: »

Definitely. Any idea what the format will be? Someone told me yesterday A3 & A4, presumably with a handicap.

Sorry spelt your name wrong...showry. Not to sure yet on the format, but will keep you posted if I find out.

jdt101

Murph100 wrote: »

Hmmm I was debating if there was any advantage to registering as a Vet instead of an A4, and couldn't see any difference but this is interesting.

BTW I'm 41 so none of yer 'ould git' guff

I sent an e-mail to CI to seek clarification. If vets are going to get a handicap, then I'm upgrading to an A3 licence. The vets are the most experienced part of the A4 Cat, as they have 20yrs+ racing done.(not all, but most)

RobFowl

Murph100 wrote: »

Hmmm I was debating if there was any advantage to registering as a Vet instead of an A4, and couldn't see any difference but this is interesting.

BTW I'm 41 so none of yer 'ould git' guff

My licence has A4 with Vet in brackets afterwards. It's only supposed to be relevant for national champs though.
The whole point of the new catagories was to bracket people by ability rather than age !

Flankerb

I am to slow for a4! My campaign for a new a5 category starts here.
Got dropped 10k in and could not get back. Spent the next 30k catching stragglers and using them as mobile rest stops before trying to up the pace again eventually caught up with an a3 who was out on a training spin and worked with him to catch a junior who was giving up on the first lap.
Spent the next lap out on my own watching over my shoulder for the A1s to catch me stayed way from them until about about the last 10k. Then some of the a2s caught me in the last 600m had sprint the last 200m to avoid disrupting the a2 bunch sprint. An absolute disaster from start to finish.
Was I disappointed yes. My back was in bits, neck was sore and legs were tired.
But looking at the data this morning I was happy to discover that I had climbed more than I have ever climbed before travelled faster over 70k with my highest average speed yet. Will I give racing another go yes see ye in Clonard next saturday. Now to get serious about training.
http://connect.garmin.com/activity/26445708

poolboy

Sorry guys this has probably been answered but can i just show up in clonard on saturday and pay to race a4 also if i can are there any rules regarding kit etc i need to know about ive tried cycling ireland website and found it to be probably the worst site ive ever visited for navigating and finding info. Thanks