Replacing a Glowworm PCB

skelly22

Hi all,

I've a Glowworm 18si gas boiler with an F1 fault and have been told by Bord Gais that it needs a new PCB which they say will cost me €600 supply & fit. I was thinking of going down the DIY route and was hoping someone could let me know if this could be easily sourced & fitted by myself. Any help appreciated.

Micky Dolenz

skelly22 wrote: »

Hi all,

I've a Glowworm 18si gas boiler with an F1 fault and have been told by Bord Gais that it needs a new PCB which they say will cost me €600 supply & fit. I was thinking of going down the DIY route and was hoping someone could let me know if this could be easily sourced & fitted by myself. Any help appreciated.

It is against the law to work on any gas appliance unless you are a Registered Gas Installer.

To keep cost down, stay away from Bord Gais. Ring a few installers from the www.rgii.ie list and get prices. Maybe tell them you have one and how much to fit.

skelly22

Ok thanks Micky, I'll give that a go

JohnnieK

I am an RGI and €600 is nonsense. People automatically think that because Board Gais supply the gas that they have to ring them for breakdowns and services. Micky is right go to www.rgii.ie and ring around.

Sorry about the rant

Joey the lips

The agents for glowworm in ireland is CF Quadrant however from memory they will not serve to joe public.. ie Trade only/

skelly22

Thanks for the sound advice guys, i'll let you know how I get on.

skelly22

Hi all,

Just to let you know I sourced a pcb for €250 in Naas and have an RGII guy coming to install for €60 - all in almost 50% cheaper than the price quoted by Bord Gais!! Hopefully it does the trick as I've been without heating now for 2 weeks!

skelly22

Hi all,

Things haven't worked out as I'd hoped! Had an RGII come to the house on Saturday to install the new PCB but still got the same F1 fault when fitted! He's unsure as to what is wrong. I've spoken to CF Quadrant since but they don't seem to want to know......anyone any advice as to my next move?

Ring the manufactures technical help 00441773 828300 they might be able to help you, Gary.

items

Sorry to hear, sounds like a right mess. Bord Gas RGII person suggests replacement of PCB to remedy boiler fault, another RGII person fitted PCB but boiler still shows a fault, service person doesn't know whats wrong with boiler?

Imagine leaving car in for fixing only to be told by mechanic, I don't know whats wrong with your car, I cant fix it.

I had imagined things have improved within Bord Gas since RGII came out, sounds like things are still the same. I cant understand how a RGI person can walk away from a faulty Gas boiler, makes no sense at all.

JohnnieK

The RGI you got was obviously no good. He should have been able to fault find the boiler. Every component on any boiler can be tested and he should have been able to do that.
The problem with RGI is you are registered as an installer but it dosen't mean they can fault find.

He probably thought because board Gais said it was the PCB this is a handy earner.

If you live in Dublin PM me and I'll see what I can do for you.

skelly22

I think you're probably right there Johnniek, in fairness to him though he insisted on not taking any money from me even though he'd spent an hour of his Saturday morning trying to sort it. That's not something you come by very often these days.

Thanks for that number Gary, I'll give them a shout in the morniing and see if they can point me in the right direction..

items

Fair play to the chap all the same, he was well out of his depth and had no problem admitting to it by not charging.

Bord Gas are displaying a poor show by providing a faulty diagnostics along with one of their registered gas installer not having enough experience to fault find. In any other country this would'nt be an acceptable standard.

If that was my boiler I'd be kicking up a fuss, you should go back to Bord Gas and complain, this kind of carry on will forever continue unless customers start making Bord Gas more aware of the problems.

JohnnieK

Fair play to him for not charging. My opinion has changed.

Micky Dolenz

It's true though about RGI personal. Some are service people and some are installers. I woud nearly see these are two seperate trades within the industry. In all sectors, Domestic, industrial and commercial, you have guys who install pipe work and applainces. Then you have guys who commission/repair and service.

skelly22

I'm becoming a little sceptical about the industry to be honest. I called someone else today who proclaimed to fix glowworm boilers in their Golden Pages add, had agreed for them to call out and waited for her to call back with exact time. She phoned me back 5 minutes later and said they were actually flat out and gave me the number of another company to ring!!

items

Sorry to hear, eventually you'll find the right service person / company, one who both knows that they are doing along with being interested in their work. Their is'nt many so once you find em, keep using them.

Best of luck with it.

Forgot to say, call into your local plumbing suppliers and ask about for a good service person, suppliers tend to know who's good and who's not, they will have a few service people to contract out service works on behalf of boiler manufacturers (warranty calls). Its up to the supplier to send out someone good or it falls back on supplier, not good for business. These service people are the type of people you should have for boiler service. Sound like they are expensive but I bet you'll be suprised.

Micky Dolenz

skelly22 wrote: »

I'm becoming a little sceptical about the industry to be honest. I called someone else today who proclaimed to fix glowworm boilers in their Golden Pages add, had agreed for them to call out and waited for her to call back with exact time. She phoned me back 5 minutes later and said they were actually flat out and gave me the number of another company to ring!!

Atleast they phoned you back. Probably the admin took call, talked to boss on the ground and found out they were too busy to attend.

Merch

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

It is against the law to work on any gas appliance unless you are a Registered Gas Installer.

To keep cost down, stay away from Bord Gais. Ring a few installers from the www.rgii.ie list and get prices. Maybe tell them you have one and how much to fit.

Have you got any info on that, does that mean you cant (not meant to) even replace a pcb which has no connection with/affect on the gas piping.
Obviously if i paid someone to work on a boiler I expect them to a reg gas installer,
lets just say my pcb went, it'd be a matter of plugging out the old one and plugging in the new one? no

Micky Dolenz

Merch wrote: »

Have you got any info on that, does that mean you cant (not meant to) even replace a pcb which has no connection with/affect on the gas piping.
Obviously if i paid someone to work on a boiler I expect them to a reg gas installer,
lets just say my pcb went, it'd be a matter of plugging out the old one and plugging in the new one? no

No, any work on a gas applaince is forbidden unless you are a RGI. So in short, unless you are RGI, you can't as much as take the cover off an applaince, even in your own home and on your own appliance.

JohnnieK

Skelly

The fault that is coming up on your boiler F01 is no gas to the burner or an ignition problem!!

There could be a number of things causing this.
1) No gas, but I'm sure you would have noticed this be now.
2) A faulty ignition transformer
3) The electrode has gone to earth
4) if it's sparking the gas valve would be a suspect. It could have become blocked by sulphidation, the armature is stuck or the solenoid has become faulty.

This could be a bit of fuel to use if you get another RGI

Merch

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

No, any work on a gas applaince is forbidden unless you are a RGI. So in short, unless you are RGI, you can't as much as take the cover off an applaince, even in your own home and on your own appliance.

Oh dear I better not tell anyone I had the covers off then
Any ideas where to get a qualification to become an RGI, not interested in the actual work (just the qualification and experience).
I'm not a plumber or electrician but I am from a technical trade background, I've done most, actually all of my own electrical and plumbing work, usually small jobs but some troubleshooting and repairs.

Micky Dolenz

Merch wrote: »

Oh dear I better not tell anyone I had the covers off then
Any ideas where to get a qualification to become an RGI, not interested in the actual work (just the qualification and experience).
I'm not a plumber or electrician but I am from a technical trade background, I've done most, actually all of my own electrical and plumbing work, usually small jobs but some troubleshooting and repairs.

You need a relative trade qualifaication to proceed witrh gas course. ring METAC in Mountrath, they will inform you if you are egilible or not.

Merch

Cheers, I'll look them up, what do you mean a relative trade apart from plumbing/ electrician?

Micky Dolenz

You should have an Irish craft certificate or equalite. A refrigeration, welding, air con qual would probably do too.

Merch

Cheers, I have a national craft certificate from my apprenticeship
Looked at their prices, pretty steep for me at the moment,

skelly22

Thanks items, i'll let you know when I get to the bottom of it. I've someone coming with a gas valve tomorrow so hopefully that will be the end of it, I'll be armed with your diagnosis JohnnieK just in case,thanks for that.

Funnily enough, as the last RGI guy I had over was replacing the PCB, he suggested I'd be able to do it myself next time as it was supposedly pretty straightforward. When I told him I thought that was illegal he seemed bemused and said that as it was electrical work only there shouldn't be a problem.....

wadk

I'm a registered service engineer and i've never had to replace
a gas valve on an 18si,have u a card meter system in the house or any other gas appliances, i take it they are all ok if u hav any others,does the boiler go through a cycle of 3 times before locking out? if so it could be the spark electrodes which i've had to change and adjust on numerous occasions.

GopErthike

wadk wrote: »

I'm a registered service engineer and i've never had to replace
a gas valve on an 18si,have u a card meter system in the house or any other gas appliances, i take it they are all ok if u hav any others,does the boiler go through a cycle of 3 times before locking out? if so it could be the spark electrodes which i've had to change and adjust on numerous occasions.

Thumbs up! Just about to say the same, very much doubt it's the gas valve.

skelly22

wadk wrote: »

I'm a registered service engineer and i've never had to replace
a gas valve on an 18si,have u a card meter system in the house or any other gas appliances, i take it they are all ok if u hav any others,does the boiler go through a cycle of 3 times before locking out? if so it could be the spark electrodes which i've had to change and adjust on numerous occasions.

It attempts to fire up twice but at the third attempt goes straight to F1. The guy who fitted the pcb also said there was no spark - would this also suggest it's not the gas valve? Gas fire in the living room is working fine - just as well! Thanks for the advice!

GopErthike

No spark is the key, probably electrodes damaged.
You need to get it diagnosed correctly from the start or it will end up costing more.
Bord gais saying it was a pcb over the phone was silly. A guy changing the pcb without diagnosing is too. At least he didn't charge!

wadk

GopErthike wrote: »

No spark is the key, probably electrodes damaged.
You need to get it diagnosed correctly from the start or it will end up costing more.
Bord gais saying it was a pcb over the phone was silly. A guy changing the pcb without diagnosing is too. At least he didn't charge!

You hit the nail on the head,a case of the blind leading the blind with some engineers,basic steps,inner flue blocked at the terminal?,is there any spark at all?he'd of needed to remove the front cover to notice considering the spark is at that the rear with the burner bar?,inlet pressure at the meter?,so on so forth. spark generater if not electrodes.i think lol

JohnnieK

wadk wrote: »

I'm a registered service engineer and i've never had to replace
a gas valve on an 18si.

Just changed a gas valve on one today, they do go, but not that often.

I hope skelly comes back and lets us know what the out come is.

JohnnieK

wadk wrote: »

You hit the nail on the head,a case of the blind leading the blind.

As iv said on other threads here not all RGI's are good service engineers. Some dont even know how to service them properly, and they are the ones getting the work.

RGII should be seperated into two sections. Installations and Servicing/repair.

wadk

JohnnieK wrote: »

Just changed a gas valve on one today, they do go, but not that often.

I hope skelly comes back and lets us know what the out come is.

No doubt skelly will,but great coincidence,and to be honest i've a contract on 40 to 50 18si's and over the past five years never ever but this is the way it goes.

wadk

JohnnieK wrote: »

As iv said on other threads here not all RGI's are good service engineers. Some dont even know how to service them properly, and they are the ones getting the work.

RGII should be seperated into two sections. Installations and Servicing/repair.

Anybody can do a GI/D or GI/S or even a GI/FF and still couldn't bless themseves.Hands on is the only way so plumbers beware.This is why i took the time out years ago.

And RGII ARE A JOKE!!, 200euro membership a year for the privelage of working on gas and not so much as a scrap generated bare awarness to consumers.

Micky Dolenz

wadk wrote: »

And RGII ARE A JOKE!!, 200euro membership a year for the privelage of working on gas and not so much as a scrap generated bare awarness to consumers.

Anything that tries to bring up the standar is a good thing. Your RGI may not be up on fixing boilers but atlest they should have safe practices. I would agree that there is very little information for both RGI and consumers. Below would be a case of point.

skelly22 wrote: »

Funnily enough, as the last RGI guy I had over was replacing the PCB, he suggested I'd be able to do it myself next time as it was supposedly pretty straightforward. When I told him I thought that was illegal he seemed bemused and said that as it was electrical work only there shouldn't be a problem.....

This is quite shocking but not surprising. i tried to find some written evidence but came up short. The reason I know is becasue I asked the head of RGII last year at a meeting and discussed the point at lenght with him.

skelly22

JohnnieK wrote: »

Just changed a gas valve on one today, they do go, but not that often.

I hope skelly comes back and lets us know what the out come is.

Don't worry guys, you'll be the first to know as soon as I get it resolved. Was supposed to have someone over on Saturday but he couldn't make it so today should be the day, can't wait to see what's wrong with the bloody thing myself at this stage!

skelly22

Well, the RGI that was supposed to come out Monday didn't show and I haven't heard from him since. Not going to bother chasing him as I'd rather deal with someone I can rely on so it's a case of back to the Yellow Pages for me! I'll keep you posted.

GopErthike

Don't go to the yellow pages, what's your general area?

skelly22

I'm in Greystones, Co. Wicklow, I think that's where most people with GW 18si's live!

Merch

Hmm agree not much info on the RGI, I did look up their site tho Micky Dolenz

It seems to say
A Declaration of Conformance Certificate has to be issued every time a RGI is carrying out gas works. It is a mandatory requirement as defined in The Energy (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 2006. There are three types of Certicates for New Installations (Meter Installation), Boiler Replacement and Services.
If there are different categories of certs then you think the people to be certing them would have a different type/category of RGI certification, I was present when a relative was getting their boiler serviced and they weren't offered to see an RGI card ID, think that might be a good idea for RGI to promote and maybe some kind of info on it to say they have a card for servicing not just installs??

PS looks like I didnt break any laws after all, last time I looked in there was Jan '09, says it came into effect only in june '09

GopErthike

Any joy with this skelly? I thought if you posted your general area someone might reccomend somebody who could help. I would always avoid the yellow pages and try get someone reccomended to you for this type of work.

Pete67

Hi folks, a lot of knowledgeable people on here. Quick question, a relative has an electrician coming to update the controls on his heating system. Currently he has only a timeswitch built into the boiler, the electrician has quoted him for a programmable wireless room thermostat to allow setback etc. Assuming the sparks will need to connect the wireless receiver module to the boiler terminal block, does he need to be an RGI? Or if he were to get an RGI to do the work would he in turn have the necessary electrical knowledge and equipment to carry out, test and certify the work in accordance with the ETCI wiring regulations? Or does he now need two people to do a relatively simple job?

Micky Dolenz

Pete67 wrote: »

Hi folks, a lot of knowledgeable people on here. Quick question, a relative has an electrician coming to update the controls on his heating system. Currently he has only a timeswitch built into the boiler, the electrician has quoted him for a programmable wireless room thermostat to allow setback etc. Assuming the sparks will need to connect the wireless receiver module to the boiler terminal block, does he need to be an RGI? Or if he were to get an RGI to do the work would he in turn have the necessary electrical knowledge and equipment to carry out, test and certify the work in accordance with the ETCI wiring regulations? Or does he now need two people to do a relatively simple job?

No, the sparks can work away. Basically he won't have to remove cover of boiler to do what he needs to do. A RGI working on external heating controls would not need to issue a cert either.

skelly22

GopErthike wrote: »

Any joy with this skelly? I thought if you posted your general area someone might reccomend somebody who could help. I would always avoid the yellow pages and try get someone reccomended to you for this type of work.

No joy yet GopErthike, the guy that was supposed to come around last Saturday & didn't show finally rang me yesterday to say he'd be around but by this stage I'd organised for someone else to come around today and now they haven't shown!!! Can you believe it?! I've been badly let down on this so far by Bord Gais and any RGI I've dealt with. I'd better get it sorted over the weekend though otherwise my wife will be looking for a divorce!! Watch this space....

JohnnieK

skelly22 wrote: »

No joy yet GopErthike, the guy that was supposed to come around last Saturday & didn't show finally rang me yesterday to say he'd be around but by this stage I'd organised for someone else to come around today and now they haven't shown!!! Can you believe it?! I've been badly let down on this so far by Bord Gais and any RGI I've dealt with. I'd better get it sorted over the weekend though otherwise my wife will be looking for a divorce!! Watch this space....

I cant believe after all this time no one has come to sort your boiler out. It is an absolute discrase. I do be around the Graystones and Kilcool area from time to time but not due back there for a couple of weeks.

skelly22

Well guys, I finally got it sorted. Got a plumber to call out through my brother-in-law, turns out it was only the spark generator that needed replacing. The guy called out on Tuesday evening and spent about an hour diagnosing the problem and came back today with the part and had it up & running in about 10 mins. It was nice to deal with somebody who knew what he was doing. Total charge was €110 including the part which I was only too delighted to give to the guy, especially considering the €600 I was initially told it would cost me to fix. Thanks for all the help & advice guys throughout the 5 weeks my boiler has been down, it really was a great help and much appreciated. Cheers for now.