B Dunne Late Late show

kevinhug

Hi Guys, Bernard Dunne is going to be on the late late show to make an announcement. Unfortunately if you are a Dunne fan it will be bad news.

In anycase it might be worth watching

Danye

kevinhug wrote: »

Hi Guys, Bernard Dunne is going to be on the late late show to make an announcement. Unfortunately if you are a Dunne fan it will be bad news.

In anycase it might be worth watching

What he retires? If thats the case its something I have been expecting..

magma69

Feck it anyway. There is life in the old dog yet. He is only 29 ffs. I hope he stays in shape and gets itchy feet in a few months. This is dreadful news. I wonder if his confidence is lost. If so, he needs to realise the guy he lost to was a beast. He can get back to Euro level and maybe have one more crack at the whip at world level.:(

digme

He should get into broadcasting as he will have nothing left after he's retired from boxing.After achieving his life long dream,I think he can sleep well at night.He's 29 and a boxer,that's long enough,it's not like he works in an office,hope he goes on rte or something.

aleybert

Agree with the above poster. He's certainly articulate enough for commentating. Sure he'd be a great Laurel for Jimmy McGee's Hardy!

mark renton

magma69 wrote: »

Feck it anyway. There is life in the old dog yet. He is only 29 ffs. I hope he stays in shape and gets itchy feet in a few months. This is dreadful news. I wonder if his confidence is lost. If so, he needs to realise the guy he lost to was a beast. He can get back to Euro level and maybe have one more crack at the whip at world level.:(

Agree with all except coming back to Euro level after 2 world title fights is probably not motivation enough, though I would have loved to see him take Munroe apart

anyways its a sad day but thanks for the good times Bernard

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Boooo!:(

One of his fights was the first ever fight that I was interested in. Gonna miss him.:(

matsy1

Cant see this being a long term decision..

Jigga

Did anyone watch the late late tonight? Just wondering if it will be worth watching it tomorrow on Rte website.

matsy1

Jigga wrote: »

Did anyone watch the late late tonight? Just wondering if it will be worth watching it tomorrow on Rte website.

Ye, I watched it.. Nothing amazing.

Dempsey

Shocked to see him retire tbh, he's only 30 years old.

TBH, people get hyper critical about his success and failures as a boxer. He was/is a great Irish Boxer, kids will strive to met the ideals he fought for, despite his failing, he's still apart of the 0.1% that actually respesents this country with distinction.

BDF

As big a fan as I am of Dunne I am glad he has come to this decision, like he says it would be easy to come back but if he feels he cannot compete at a high level anymore for whatever reason, what's the point? I don't want to see him coming back at Euro level and risk losing to someone who isn't even in his league due to him not being able to make weight properly, not being motivated or whatever. Good call by Dunne.

walshb

I said that after the Cordoba fight that Dunne was taking too much and that
it was getting dangerous. I think the fact that he reacts so badly to shots is an ominous sign. He said himself thsa he is glad that he can still say his own name now.

Bernard's dad sems quite happy, as does Pamela. Bernard looked ever s snappy and shaprp last night. Gotta' hand it to him there, he knows how to dress, and talk. Compare him to the two scruffs that came out after, Farrell and Jordan:eek: Fair play Dunne, touch of class.

FlawedGenius

Sad to see hes retired, would of been nice to see him fight Munroe before he retired. Hes done Ireland proud. Best of luck to him in the future he deserves it!

matsy1

I reckon he'll indulge in the finer things in life (coke and cream cakes) and realise he can bulk up! Then come back at a higher weight and be world champion again! Fair play Bernard, ya gave us some great Saturday nights..:)

Chet Zar

walshb wrote: »

I said that after the Cordoba fight that Dunne was taking too much and that
it was getting dangerous. I think the fact that he reacts so badly to shots is an ominous sign. He said himself that he is glad that he can still say his own name now.

Bernard's dad sems quite happy, as does Pamela. Bernard looked ever so snappy and sharo last night. Gotta' hand it to him there, he knows how to dress, and talk. Compare him to the two scruffs that came out after, Farrell and Jordan:eek: Fair play Dunne, touch of class.

Perfect summing up there. Yeah what's the deal with Jordan he looked like he had just stumbled in off the street, or a park bench!

Slideshowbob

Slicing critique of Dunne in the Sindo today:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/the-bubble-had-to-burst-for-dunne-and-for-dublin-2072760.html

Fair?

stevoslice

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Slicing critique of Dunne in the Sindo today:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/the-bubble-had-to-burst-for-dunne-and-for-dublin-2072760.html

Fair?

not really, the man did win a world title, and that in itself is enough for me to disregard that article. sure he might not have been the best fighter we ever produced, but he showed that with guts and determination you can achieve the incredible. i have a lot of respect for bernard and what he achieved.

plus he contributed to possibly the greatest day in irish sporting history.

Dirty whore!

thebhoy wrote: »

not really, the man did win a world title, and that in itself is enough for me to disregard that article. sure he might not have been the best fighter we ever produced, but he showed that with guts and determination you can achieve the incredible. i have a lot of respect for bernard and what he achieved.

plus he contributed to possibly the greatest day in irish sporting history.

I have to agree with tommy from the independent, you see outside dublin where the majority of bernards fans hail from nobody really believed that the chap was world class only blind fans would believe he was it not hate because i love boxing and i enjoyed all bernards fights i seen in ireland but the version of the WBA title bernard picked up wasnt even the full WBA title since cabellbro held the real title. Its just the facts guys.

walshb

That day back in March was te greatest day I can remember in Irish sports history, spot on.....

To the article: If I have learned anything on this forum, it is that any negative views on Dunne will be met with severe retaliation.

The articles did touch on a lot that can be argued for. I personally have always maintained that Dunne was not a great pro. I got things wrong as well, but the point made about being a big fish in a small pond is IMO correct.

I saw the hype when I went to the O2, lads who just were not boxing fans who were slating Dunne as they left following his loss to PK. It is this aspect of the Dunne show that puzzles me. Bandwagon Dunne supporters, not boxing enthusiasts. The culdn't distingusid between a Wilders
and a Cordoba, that was the thing!

How can they really try and hype it when Bernard is and was facing the likes
of Marchiano, Wilders, Hughes, Martinez, Faccio, Voronin, Betts, Machado, Marchiano, Jersuialov, ets al. That is ludicrous, yet we had the hype machine surrounding it. The words world class became meaningless during this time.

Regarding his career: Amateur he had a great Irish career. Never beaten by an Irish boxer. That is great, but what I found odd was Bernard saying he had achieved all his goals? I don't see how he can say this when he never won a Euro, world or Olympic medal. Is he the best ever Irish amateur? He can't be really, when you have the likes of Carruth, Dowling, Griffin, Wayne, Kelly, Lee, Egan etc....

I think Griffin would have beaten Bernard as an amateur, but as pro, Dunne KOs Griffin. To use one example.

One other thing that sort of gets me is that he NEVER tried or pursued Kiko for a return? This has to be looked at. Usually, it is what makes a boxer so special amongst other sports stars. It's fairly easy to go out and replay an opponent in snooker, darts, tennis, golf, athletics etc etc. In boxing, there needs serious serious courage to step in the ring against a man who has dominated you. I wanted Dunne to seek this match, he didn't, and also, he never made it even known that he wanted to.

I tell you, Dunne had the beatings of Kiko by being ultra smart and clever. All the greats have at times lost and came back to avenge or TRY to avenge the loss. I wanted Dunne to do the same.

Overall, he was a lovely boxer, stylist and did well, but I could never get caught up in the over the top hype surounding the Dunne show, especially when men Like I mentioned were standing across the ring from him.

walshb

Dirty whore! wrote: »

I have to agree with tommy from the independent, you see outside dublin where the majority of bernards fans hail from nobody really believed that the chap was world class only blind fans would believe he was it not hate because i love boxing and i enjoyed all bernards fights i seen in ireland but the version of the WBA title bernard picked up wasnt even the full WBA title since cabellbro held the real title. Its just the facts guys.

Sometimes the facts, when they concern Bernard, are met with severe
opposition.

Did Bernard win a world title? I don't care who it is, to me, the answer
is NO. That applies to any other Irish man who may win a version of a version.

Dirty whore!

walshb wrote: »

Sometimes the facts, when they concern Bernard, are met with severe
opposition.

Did Bernard win a world title? I don't care who it is, to me, the answer
is NO. That applies to any other Irish man who may win a version of a version.

Its not that i didnt enjoy all bernards fights and i do appreciate all the boxing nights he provided, its just his fans who look at his career through rose tinted glasses that would drive you silly.

magma69

Whilst I don't disagree with the article, I think it was a very cowardly thing to do. Why didn't he make this article before and not just after Dunne retires. The same journalist was probably guilty of hyping him up himself and instead he waits until Dunne hangs up his gloves to have a bash at him when the article would have been so much more relevant during the heights of his career. This just smacked of begrudgery and bitterness due to the timing of the article. Can't argue with anything written in the article itself though.

Dirty whore!

magma69 wrote: »

Whilst I don't disagree with the article, I think it was a very cowardly thing to do. Why didn't he make this article before and not just after Dunne retires. The same journalist was probably guilty of hyping him up himself and instead he waits until Dunne hangs up his gloves to have a bash at him when the article would have been so much more relevant during the heights of his career. This just smacked of begrudgery and bitterness due to the timing of the article. Can't argue with anything written in the article itself though.

You"re probably right about the timing.

walshb

magma, I don't know whether this is a case of begrudging Dunne anything.

I certainly do not begrudge him a thing, and I do think that Irish folks have
a way of dising a persons success. But, in Dunne's case I think that the hype
applied to his career was way over the top. I just cannot get excited about it.

I mean, the hype when he was meeting and beating some of those guys was ridiclous. All I ever want is perspective. Nobody really had the honesty to come out and query anything. Right from Peter's to Dave Boy to Jimmy to Dowling to anyone else, it was hype hype hype. Some of those fights were insulting, actually insulting to the sport. Mismatches completely.

Someone on here mentions that Dunne has been facing really low level fighters and there are people nearly cying about it?
We need to separate Dunne the person, classy guy, likable guy,(comes across) from Dunne the boxer. I don't know him
personally, but I have watched his BOXING career. I can talk about that a little better.

I would rather save all tha ****ing crap hype talk for the actual time it
deserves it.

magma69

walshb wrote: »

magma, I don't know whether this is a case of begrudging Dunne anything.

I certainly do not begrudge him a thing, and I do think that Irish folks have
a way of dising a persons success. But, in Dunne's case I think that the hype
applied to his career was way over the top. I just cannot get excited about it.

I mean, the hype when he was meeting and beating some of those guys was ridiclous. All I ever want is perspective. Nobody really had the honesty to come out and query anything. Right from Peter's to Dave Boy to Jimmy to Dowling to anyone else, it was hype hype hype. Some of those fights were insulting, actually insulting to the sport. Mismatches completely.

Someone on here mentions that Dunne has been facing really low level fighters and there are people nearly cying about it?
We need to separate Dunne the person, classy guy, likable guy,(comes across) from Dunne the boxer. I don't know him
personally, but I have watched his BOXING career. I can talk about that a little better.

I would rather save all tha ****ing crap hype talk for the actual time it
deserves it.

I agree with what you are saying and I do think many people failed to see his weakness due to their admiration of the lad. I was just pointing out that it would have been much more appropriate for the journalist to point this out before the Poonsawat fight when it really mattered. That was when the Dunne hype peaked.

My point was that it was bad form to put such a negative article out just when Dunne retires. A time when people are reflecting on the positives of his career. I would have applauded the article if it came out last year but to come out with it now seems like begrudgery to me. A negative article for the sake of being negative and going against the grain.

Dirty whore!

magma69 wrote: »

I agree with what you are saying and I do think many people failed to see his weakness due to their admiration of the lad. I was just pointing out that it would have been much more appropriate for the journalist to point this out before the Poonsawat fight when it really mattered. That was when the Dunne hype peaked.

My point was that it was bad form to put such a negative article out just when Dunne retires. A time when people are reflecting on the positives of his career. I would have applauded the article if it came out last year but to come out with it now seems like begrudgery to me. A negative article for the sake of being negative and going against the grain.

People have been saying for years outside ireland that dunne was no real threat at world level.

Rob113

Lads. Lets be real here. I dont think anyone ever thought he was going to go on and unify the division and dominate for years. Everyone knew his limitations and probably turned a blind eye to them. Its called supporting one of your own. Every Irish fighter that gets into the ring has the whole country behind them regardless of who they are fighting, same with the soccer and rugby teams. When the soccer team went to the world cup they had the most fanatical support also. Your not going to reserve your support for someone just because they arent the absolute best on the planet.

Dunne was the best we had and to me that makes him a hero. He has done what everyone of us sitting behind a computer screen typing on this forum would love to do. He used his boxing talent to bring him as far as he possibly could. None of the rest of us could have done what he did. And fo that i think he should be applauded. Not criticised. I'll hapily admit to jumping on the bandwagon and offering my full, totally biased support to Bernard Dunne and thank him for everything.

Dirty whore!

Rob113 wrote: »

Lads. Lets be real here. I dont think anyone ever thought he was going to go on and unify the division and dominate for years. Everyone knew his limitations and probably turned a blind eye to them. Its called supporting one of your own. Every Irish fighter that gets into the ring has the whole country behind them regardless of who they are fighting, same with the soccer and rugby teams. When the soccer team went to the world cup they had the most fanatical support also. Your not going to reserve your support for someone just because they arent the absolute best on the planet.

Dunne was the best we had and to me that makes him a hero. He has done what everyone of us sitting behind a computer screen typing on this forum would love to do. He used his boxing talent to bring him as far as he possibly could. None of the rest of us could have done what he did. And fo that i think he should be applauded. Not criticised. I'll hapily admit to jumping on the bandwagon and offering my full, totally biased support to Bernard Dunne and thank him for everything.

Thats not completly true about everyone supporting irish fighters, you only have to go to boxing websites and see that on the irish threads dunne gets way to much credit even when he loses than some irish boxers who win and still get **** on because they arent from dublin.

Vintagekits

Anyone read this article??

Thoughts??

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/the-bubble-had-to-burst-for-dunne-and-for-dublin-2072760.html

Rob113

Dirty whore! wrote: »

Thats not completly true about everyone supporting irish fighters, you only have to go to boxing websites and see that on the irish threads dunne gets way to much credit even when he loses than some irish boxers who win and still get **** on because they arent from dublin.

Fully agree that its bad form not supporting one of your own but i dont agree with slating Bernard or knocking his achievements because the world title he won was a watered down version. He achieved what his skills and determination allowed him to. Im sure they could have found some way to duck poon if they had wanted to as money talks but he fought him and was badly beat so he has walked away. I for one dont think he was the greatest boxer ever to live but i thoroughly enjoyed watching him and have nothing but absolute respect for him. Hopefully one of our other fighters can capture the imagination in the same way and we can have another world champion soon (watered down version or not).

Rob113

its being discussed in the late late show thread

walshb

Rob, no doubt that Dunne is a skilled boxer and went as far as he could with what he had.

As for the "world title," I don't think it's begrudging at all. Any fighter on earth who wants to be called a world champion should win the actual title
If they do, I or anyone else cannot make excuses for this.

A favorite of mine is Khan, but I don't consider him a world champion, even though he actually holds the TRUE version of the WBA belt. He does have more a claim than Dunne though

If I apply this criteria, then how can I say that Dunne was a world champion.
It is not possible for me. Had Dunne beaten Cabarello then he goes a long way, as Caballero is the TRUE WBA belt holder.

Had we here not been so so OTT on Dunne and actually applied some
truth and honesty about it all, then maybe some folks wouldn't be coming
across as "anti Dunne." That is how we are labeled when we query the
nature of his praise, his opponents, his strengths and weaknesses.

He grew on me towards the latter part of his career. I was proud to come on and say that he showed me so so much last March. He showed me a career
best performance. I saved the REAL TRUE praise for when it mattered.

I couldn't do that when Dunne was in there meeting and beating the likes of Hughes, Jersuialov and Betts. I had to call that as I saw it, complete mismatches.

The Voronin win showed his weakness, and Kiko cemented it. He came back with three wins against very ordinary opponents, looking only okay, if I am being honest. He then looked his best vs. Cordoaba, however, it was still ever so clear that the chin was very shaky.

His team cocked up so badly by NOT avoiding on his first defence, the dangerous PK. Bernard was let down badly here. He deserved one or two
easier defences, and they should have done all in their power o make that
happen. I don't buy the whole, "We had no option."

Dirty whore!

walshb wrote: »

Rob, no doubt that Dunne is a skilled boxer and went as fas as he could with what he had.

As for the "world title," I don't think it's begrudging at all. Any fighter on earth who wants to be called a world champion should win the actual title
If they do, I or anyone else cannot make excuses for this.

A favorite of mine is Khan, but I don't consider him a world champion, even though he actually holds the TRUE version of the WBA belt. He does have more a claim than Dunne though

If I apply this criteria, then how can I say that Dunne was a world champion.
It is not possible for me. Had Dunne beaten Cabarello then he goes a long way, as Caballero is the TRUE WBA belt holder.

Had we here not been so so OTT on Dunne and actually applied some
truth and honesty about it all, then maybe some folks wouldn't be coming
across as "anti Dunne." That is how we are labeled when we query the
nature of his praise, his opponents, his strengths and weaknesses.

He grew on me towards the latter part of his career. I was proud to come on and say that he showed me so so much last March. He showed me a career
best performance. I saved the REAL TRUE praise for when it mattered.

I couldn't do that when Dunne was in there meeting and beating the likes of Hughes, Jersuialov and Betts. I had to call that as I saw it, complete mismatches.

The Voronin win showed his weakness, and Kiko cemented it. He came back with three wins against very ordinary opponents, looking only okay, if I am being honsest. He then looked his best vs. Cordoaba, however, it was still ever so clear that the chin was very shaky.

His team cocked up so badly by NOT avoiding on his first defence, the dangeorus PK. Bernard was let down badly here. He deserved one or two
easier defences, and they should have done all in their power o make that
happen. I don't buy the whole, "We had no option."

I couldnt of put it better myself, you got all facts and reasons typed up there but i still cant help but feel all dunne fans will see that as hate and will always believe that he was world class no matter what you type and maybe its better to let them think what they want....

Dempsey

Just read that Indo article and I agree totally about the hype from RTE. Jimmy Magee should be banned from commentating on another boxing match because of the ****e he spewed into it.

walshb

Dirty whore! wrote: »

I couldnt of put it better myself, you got all facts and reasons typed up there but i still cant help but feel all dunne fans will see that as hate and will always believe that he was world class no matter what you type and maybe its better to let them think what they want....

Exactly why we need to separate the boxer and the person. Jeez, Dune had always impressed me when he's been on tv, always. I have always praised his style, manners and attitude. Okay, that is what I know of him as a person.
I can only judge what I see here. Maybe he is not all that great in real life, but I cannot say this, as I don't know him personally. I can only comment on what I see on tv.

Now, it is his boxing career where I and others can comment on. Same way we can judge many other sports stars. We judge on record, achievements, statistics, style, strengths and weaknesses, level of opposition and all that. When I take it all into account, he falls short of me labeling him a great OR very good fighter.

He did improve as he went on, something I have said, but it was short lived.
PK really just reiterated what many have said already.

mark renton

walshb wrote: »

Rob, no doubt that Dunne is a skilled boxer and went as far as he could with what he had.

As for the "world title," I don't think it's begrudging at all. Any fighter on earth who wants to be called a world champion should win the actual title
If they do, I or anyone else cannot make excuses for this.

A favorite of mine is Khan, but I don't consider him a world champion, even though he actually holds the TRUE version of the WBA belt. He does have more a claim than Dunne though

If I apply this criteria, then how can I say that Dunne was a world champion.
It is not possible for me. Had Dunne beaten Cabarello then he goes a long way, as Caballero is the TRUE WBA belt holder.

Let me see do I have this straight, you are not a world champion if you win the world title while the belt is unified, and you are not a world champion if you win the belt while it is not unified

If you apply this criteria walshb then you mock every world title holder that hasnt unified titles

mark renton

Dirty whore! wrote: »

I couldnt of put it better myself, you got all facts and reasons typed up there but i still cant help but feel all dunne fans will see that as hate and will always believe that he was world class no matter what you type and maybe its better to let them think what they want....

there are supporters here dirty w and then there are just plain haters, you my friend are a hater, even the most sturdy Dunne supporters have posted certain shortcomings in Bernards game

you on the other hand have never posted anything here with substance or balance, only agreeing with others who point toward a Dunne downfall

IMO boxers who earn the right to enter a ring with another world class fighter is himself then classed as world class

Dirty whore!

john47832 wrote: »

there are supporters here dirty w and then there are just plain haters, you my friend are a hater, even the most sturdy Dunne supporters have posted certain shortcomings in Bernards game

you on the other hand have never posted anything here with substance or balance, only agreeing with others who point toward a Dunne downfall

IMO boxers who earn the right to enter a ring with another world class fighter is himself then classed as world class

If you would read my posts on this thread you will see i praise dunne. And your not world champion because you hold a interim belt only an amateur boxing fan like you would swallow that. Brian peters bought dunne that fight he didnt get there on his talents or his own merit like real world class fighters, brian paid £250,000 to get cordoba over for an easy defence maybe cordoba didnt take dunne seriously?

Vintagekits

That article by Conlan is pure and unadulterated and anyone agreeing with it needs their heads read!

I am embarrassed but some of the comments here.

I dont live in Ireland, I dont read the Sindo, I dont know the journalist, I dont have any knowledge of any of his previously article - I therefore read this article with a clean slate and no bias!

I sent the gob****e this email today -

Tommy,

Dissapointed in this article to be honest - very dissapointed to be honest.

Whilst some of what is said is true, it is the way it is presented that I have an issue with, it is overly critical, negative and skewed out of focus.

In truth shows a lack of in depth knowledge of boxing and why boxers are supported. It’s like you are purposefully looking for the negatives instead of an article that should have been balanced, reflective and an opportunity to give him credit where credit is due on a career in which he has achieved so much.

Let break the article down!

A. "he was still in danger of wearing out his welcome" - I would disagree with that. That view has no footing in fact, truth or logic, and there was ZERO indication of that reaction in the crowd. This opinion is put forward without a shred of evidence – a common theme in the article!

B. "He hadn't stayed at the top long enough to put down roots in the nation's affections." - fair point to a degree, however, he sold out the O2 Arena twice with 10,000 screaming fans and had the first World title fight in Ireland for over 10 years. That won’t be forgotten.

C. "When he turned up on the same show last Friday, few people cared -- he was yesterday's man." - see answer to A.

D. "The Bernard Dunne story revealed a section of the Irish sports media at its parochial worst. They ignored the inconvenient reality that Dunne was a big fish in a small pond." - I'll give you the bit about the big fish small pond - but where was he when that point needed to be made? Timing!!

E. "But America is the only country that matters in boxing and he wasn't even mapped there." - Bull! Bernard was making more money than most American world champions - also none of the worlds top ten SBW's were American, in fact none of the top 20 are - actually in truth none of the top 30 are!!! So why would he be fighting in American when even the Klitchko brothers cant get a HBO slot in the state and are cleaning up in Germany - so say that the states is the be all and end all is a view that died in the 70's.

F. "As the cheerleading reached its crescendo on the night he beat Ricardo Cordoba, the silence from America was even more deafening" - eh, NO!!! this fight was lauded high and wide in the states with most serious boxing writers voting it in the top three fights of the year. There are literally tens of 1,000's of professional bouts across the world across every year - if the silence was deafening how did this end up in the top 3 fights at the end of the year some NINE months later. For deafening silence it sure made an echo.

G. "Matched against a rugged Mexican named Adrian Valdez, Dunne was cut in the first round and ended the bout in what would become a familiar sight: his face a mess of blood and bruises. It was his last fight on American soil: how long he would have lasted there remains an open question." - yes Bernard marks up, yes Bernard cuts, yes he had an off night - but he won and won fair and square it was only the ignorant haters jealous of the exposure that Bernard was getting that claimed he lost it on points - have you seen the fight? I have, he won it clearly - its the same people that claim that Campos and Schmicet beat Duddy - their bile is toxic and their opinions incongruous with reality.

You attempt to make it sound like Dunne left the US under a cloud because of that close call, no mention of Sugar Ray folding SRL Promotions to make The Contender Series or the pressure from loved ones to go back home.

H. "One of his best performances came against Esham Pickering on the night they fought for the European title in November '06. The European title might have been boxing's equivalent of soccer's Intertoto Cup - the European title is the equivalent to the Intertoto" - **** me, the ignorance - I would rather hold the European title then most of the alphabet world titles out there, it has more credibility in its clasp then the trumped up gold and leather or so many "world" titles. If you think the EBU title is the Intertoto of boxing you need to stop writing about boxing - seriously.

I. "It was also a one-off. He was in the big league now and could no longer be sheltered. Poonsawat Kratingdaenggym came to Dublin six months later and brutally exposed the champion's limitations." - but he could have been sheltered, he, like Amir Khan, could have dropped his world title to fight opponents more suited to his style - Maidana is Khan's Prescott as Poonsawat was Dunne's Kiko! Everyone knew it going into the fight, Dunne knew it - he shunned the shelter to face his fear - nothing was exposed that night, it was out there from the start, everyone knew the danger - that’s why we stood behind him. I was never really a Dunne fan, I saw the soft and careful match matching and holes in his defense but the Cordoba fight showed a different fighter than before and to castigate the man like this after that night is sickening and ignorant.

Criticising boxing supporters for being parochial is like calling Cavan GAA fans for being parochial for supporting their team, sure the men from Bailieboro and Dowra can acknowledge and admire the skills and prowess of the Kerry and Meath teams but its only when their own men are winning that they get truly excited – and there is nowt wrong with that – its sport! Support your local gunfighter!

A bit more balance, thought and knowledge needed me thinks!!

Regards

mark renton

Dirty whore! wrote: »

If you would read my posts on this thread you will see i praise dunne. And your not world champion because you hold a interim belt only an amateur boxing fan like you would swallow that. Brian peters bought dunne that fight he didnt get there on his talents or his own merit like real world class fighters, brian paid £250,000 to get cordoba over for an easy defence maybe cordoba didnt take dunne seriously?

Are you for real Dirty ?? In the pro game challengers are putting money up all the time for a shot at titles, thats the way it works ffs, you are attempting to make it look like it was a back hander, and go check with the wba what exactly the requirements are for a challenger to face a champion in a wba title fight - then come back here and post

Dirty whore!

Nobody should be afraid to express their opinions on a boxers abilty in the ring as long as you dont cross the lines into their personal lives. And dumbass fans who overrate and hype fighters should have to back up their favourite fighters with valid reasons if they believe he is world class and be prepared for a backlash if they are talking crap about a world title of the worst kind.

Rob113

Firstly great post Vintagekits. That puts him in his place.

I think its commonly accepted that Bernard was loved by more than just hardcore boxing enthusiasts and to the average joe he was a world beater. Think of the thousands that followed Ricky Hatton to vegas, they probably all knew deep down that Ricky had his limits also but they all supported him. Its the very nature of the sports fan.

Anyone with a bit of boxing knowledge knew Bernard was limited, but he had liathroidì. He had a dream and he pursued it. He won a version of a world title. He himself didnt then go around claiming he was the undisputed champion of the world. But the belt was what it was - a world title belt. A watered down version admittedly, but the history books will always say that Bernard Dunne held a world title. The belt was there to be won and he won it and won it in style.

People went over the top with hype but others also go over the top trying to knock him.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. He was a good fighter who caught the imagination of the nation and achieved his dream of winning a world title. Its not his fault there are so many versions. He was hardly going to turn around after he won it and ask people not to call him a world champ.

walshb

john47832 wrote: »

Are you for real Dirty ?? In the pro game challengers are putting money up all the time for a shot at titles, thats the way it works ffs, you are attempting to make it look like it was a back hander, and go check with the wba what exactly the requirements are for a challenger to face a champion in a wba title fight - then come back here and post

John, I think what Dirty is getting at is the fact that Dunne never deserved a shot at a "world title." He is correct, the same was Khan didn't. Cordoba's team went with Dunne assuming he'd be an easy and very good payday.

To earn a shot at a title many would like to see the man actually earn it. That is the point. Hey, Dunne took it and fought very well. We know well it happens in boxing all the time, it is what is wrong with the sport. Not that I wouldn't like to see more Irish getting shots, but there is the whole case of fighters getting shots that do not deserve them, ahead of others who are far more deserving.

BTW, calling Dirty a hater is only reflecting badly on you. It's a shallow argument, John. The chap doesn't rate Dunne highly, get over it!

walshb

john47832 wrote: »

Let me see do I have this straight, you are not a world champion if you win the world title while the belt is unified, and you are not a world champion if you win the belt while it is not unified

If you apply this criteria walshb then you mock every world title holder that hasnt unified titles

This argument is so so old.

It is simple, win a version of world title and in my book, you may
be called a WORLD CHAMP; but winning a version of a version doen't even get considered. That is so simple, and applied to Dunne it is true.

The best way to call it is who in the division do you rate numero 1....

Eg: Middleweight, Pavlik to me is the best, world champ

Super Bantam....JML is number 1, world champ, though moving up

JWW...Bradley is numero 1, so world champ. Khan is a top rated WBA
champ, but to me, he needs a little more before I will call him numero 1.
Beat Bradley and you will be champ

BTW, who says I am mocking them? Because I don't consider many
in the divisions as world champs, that means I am mocking them? That's odd.
Hardly mocking. If I was to say they were useless, as well as NOT world champs, yes,
that is mocking.

mark renton

walshb wrote: »

BTW, calling Dirty a hater is only reflecting badly on you. It's a shallow argument, John. The chap doesn't rate Dunne highly, get over it!

My point - the dude has about 50 posts, its beneath me but if we were to go through them I'm sure about 30-40% of them are anti Dunne and most of them not even in a Dunne context

Vince135792003

I thought the article in the Independent was poorly written in that some of his points were valid but he was going off in tangents that I completely disagreed with and was quite mean spirited towards what Dunne has achieved.

RTE did get on the bandwagon and obviously the commentary and hype by the likes of Jimmy Magee bordered on ridiculous. At time is was farcially over the top.

However boxing is a different animal to most sports.

From the very beginning, boxing wasn't just about what happened in the ring.

Boxings foundations are based upon hype, charismatic champions and challengers, more hype.........and then what happens in the ring.

Bernard was a very skilful fighter. He was not quite at the elite level but managed through his skill in the ring, his obvious charisma and his ability to speak well to create a buzz around Irish pro- boxing that never existed before in terms of the number of people who watched him on tv and the amount of tickets he sold.

I think Conlon was coming from a pure sport perspective. There's much more to the boxing than just that.

rossi272

Bernard Dunne is joining the fire brigade in Dublin.:D

Vintagekits

rossi272 wrote: »

Bernard Dunne is joining the fire brigade in Dublin.:D

and if he was so what? better then being a self opinionated cop, or was that supposed to be humorous?

when is mid term over??

joepenguin

The article was p!$$ poor on so many levels. Its been covered here already but just to throw in one or two comments:

"Big fish in a small pond" I disagree with this statement. Irish pro boxing may be a small pond, but Bernard was not competing at Irish title level, nor was he competing with any of his fellow pro boxers. In fact he paved the way for them
.
Bernard was a boxer in an era when the super bantamweight champions of the world were the likes of Vasquez, Marquez, Juanma Lopez. I always viewed Dunne as a small fish in shark infested waters. Not all of the world champs were of this standard and the consensus was always that Dunne was of the standard to challenge / beat the likes of Molitor, Cabellero, Cordoba etc.

As for the intertoto statement :rolleyes: The writer clearly knows nothing of boxing because the ebu european title is as prestigious as titles get. America, the supposed home of boxing doesnt have a title as credible. Who is the American champion??? No such thing. If he knew anything beyond rte coverage he would have known that the super bantam division at euro level was so so. To put it into context Bernard was one of the elite european fighters and a step down from that at world level. If he wanted to ridicule him he could have at least did so on the back of a valid point.

Regarding peoples statements on Dunnes claim as world champion: He was a world champion. Which in todays world of boxing means being one of the top ten fighters to hold a wba/wbc/ibf/wbo belt. Gone are the days of the wbc being prestigious and the wbo been a chump title. Example: check out the champs at 147.... "ah but dunne merely had an interim version"... who is the main man at 175? clue: he holds the wbc interim version.

Titles nowadays mean nothing. Dunne beat a fighter ranked 5th-7th in the world (depending on the publication you had your hands on) and therefor became a top 5 fighter. He also got a belt from it and even though Cabellero was the full champ, Dunne beat the man who beat the man. Which doesnt make Dunne the man, but re enforces my point that there was a point in time when Bernard Dunne was fighting and winning at world class level.

I dont follow Sprinting closely but who ever got 5th in the world in the mens 100 meters at the last olympics is still world class even if he always comes up short against Usain Bolt.

Dempsey

Just watched Dunne on the Late Late Show, he looked happy with his decision and getting on with the rest of his life. He doesnt look like he'll make the mistake that other fighters make and get that urge to have one last crack of the whip.