My personal frustration with the game at the moment

carrig2007

I just need to have a little rant about how I'm going with the game at the moment. I'm a decent enough player and i've done ok from it considering i've only really started playing a lot with maybe 9 months. My best results tend to come in 8-9 player sit n go's at a local pub after i get knocked out of the tourney. I also fare good enough in the tourney in college. I've tried online and havent done too much to be honest. Mainly paddy power (where i find the bad beats to be outragous, maybe it's just me im not sure...) and a bit of full tilt. I'm convinced that I'm a good player and deserve to be doing better than I am at the moment. I watch poker on the net nearly every day, and play nearly everyday also. Better players than me have told me that they're surprised with my lack of results in the tourey in the local pub and I have no good answer for them. I think that I do run pretty bad at times, although sometimes its just a case of bad player calling me with muck and outflopping me. Anyway i think thats enough. I'd be interested to see what people think and if anybody has a similar story and if I should consider some changes etc...

Thanks

Daithio9

carrig2007 wrote: »

I just need to have a little rant about how I'm going with the game at the moment. I'm a decent enough player and i've done ok from it considering i've only really started playing a lot with maybe 9 months. My best results tend to come in 8-9 player sit n go's at a local pub after i get knocked out of the tourney. I also fare good enough in the tourney in college. I've tried online and havent done too much to be honest. Mainly paddy power (where i find the bad beats to be outragous, maybe it's just me im not sure...) and a bit of full tilt. I'm convinced that I'm a good player and deserve to be doing better than I am at the moment. I watch poker on the net nearly every day, and play nearly everyday also. Better players than me have told me that they're surprised with my lack of results in the tourey in the local pub and I have no good answer for them. I think that I do run pretty bad at times, although sometimes its just a case of bad player calling me with muck and outflopping me. Anyway i think thats enough. I'd be interested to see what people think and if anybody has a similar story and if I should consider some changes etc...

Thanks

Move up levels.

carrig2007

Cheers for the advice, but i'm curious and not being at all smart here, but if I cant beat the levels I'm playing at now how would i be justified in moving up?
Thanks...

westlife2010

Rob Taylor, will you ever have the decency to post under your own name!

DeadMoney

carrig2007 wrote: »

I just need to have a little rant about how I'm going with the game at the moment. I'm a decent enough player and i've done ok from it considering i've only really started playing a lot with maybe 9 months. My best results tend to come in 8-9 player sit n go's at a local pub after i get knocked out of the tourney. I also fare good enough in the tourney in college. I've tried online and havent done too much to be honest. Mainly paddy power (where i find the bad beats to be outragous, maybe it's just me im not sure...) and a bit of full tilt. I'm convinced that I'm a good player and deserve to be doing better than I am at the moment. I watch poker on the net nearly every day, and play nearly everyday also. Better players than me have told me that they're surprised with my lack of results in the tourey in the local pub and I have no good answer for them. I think that I do run pretty bad at times, although sometimes its just a case of bad player calling me with muck and outflopping me. Anyway i think thats enough. I'd be interested to see what people think and if anybody has a similar story and if I should consider some changes etc...

Thanks

This is constructive criticism only and I mean no disrespect but here goes. You are not as good a player that you think you are full stop. Most players are not near as good as they think they are in this game and while confidence is definitely a good thing in poker, lack of self realization can be very expensive and block progression. You say you are playing pub tourneys and college tourneys. So you are pretty much playing complete fish. Even if you were killing these games that wouldn't say much about your poker ability as the standard here is pretty much as weak as it comes.

Also you can watch pokertube till the cows come home but that isn't going to make you a better player. Watch for entertainment sure but if you want to improve you gotta study hand histories, books, coaching vids, discuss hands with good players etc. Also play a tonne of hands obv. Pick a site and get all your roll on to it and start grinding what ever stakes you are rolled for. Go with stars or ftp.

P.s, sites are NOT rigged against you, you are just seeing far more hands per hour than you are used to live so bad beats are gonna pop up much more often.

carrig2007

Thanks for that honesty. I dont think im anything special but am willing to learn. Whatever helps i'll try....cheers anyway

tipp86

I was lucky enough to be a winning player from nearly the start which is over 4 years ago.

This was only because the games were so soft back then and my tight play worked a treat.

I allways wondered back then why i didnt do that well at tournaments ( this was because i was to tight )

You will look back in a year and realise how bad you were. This is assuming you learn in this period.

Suited

Daithio9 wrote: »

Move up levels.

What a ******* thing to say.

DeadMoney

Carrig I'd recommend joining a coaching site that has lots of small and micro stakes vids. I'm really not sure which are the best for these stakes but I know Cardrunners have a very good intro to micros series with Brystmar which I started to watch when I first started playing 6max NL. Perhaps there is better value though than Cardrunners so do a bit of research and check 2+2 coz there are probably lots of threads dedicated to this.

If your gonna start grinding ring games I think purchasing holdem manager is a wise investment and I think you can get good deals on this through joining certain coaching sites. Join 2+2 also if you are not a member and start reading/posting the micro stakes forum. I think starting at 25nl is good although you might get sort of crushed at the start if you have no experience so maybe start at 10nl but move up as soon as you are rolled for 25nl (about $500 bankroll). 10nl isn't worth playing as the rake is so high and its hard to get your roll up. Id say practise at 10nl and study vids and then gove 25nl a go as soon as your can, 25nl is quite easy to beat if you stick to a basic enough starting hand chart and play TAG ABC solid poker. You will mostly profit at these levels from letting people make big mistakes so don't try anything fancy and stick to the advice you get in coaching videos. If you have Rakeback on FTP i'd play only there but if you can't get RB then go with stars and get the sign up bonus.

Remember poker is not easy to beat online these days and it takes a huge amount of work and effort to move up stakes. If you are just looking to play for fun, then just keep playing the games you are used to, after all its more fun this way anyway. If you are serious about giving online a proper stab then the above advice is good. However sng's are also another way to go but I'm afraid I know very little about these so you may want to ask somebody else about BR management for sng's and learning resources.

GL and PM me if you have any questions.

Treehouse72

It's not that hard to be ok at poker. Took me a long time to realise this. In a sense, we're all "ok" at poker. But "ok" is probably only breakeven in today's online games. I don't play live so I can't comment on that.

I'd sit there and think to myself how awesome I was to spot that cbetting AJo on a 478 mono bard into two TAGfish probably isn't that smart. Wow! What a genius I am for picking that one! I would give myself credit for the subtlety of this thought process. Oh dear.

Really, the fundamental concepts aren't that difficult and should make you breakeven. But I'm not sure they are enough to put you in the green in today's games. Throw in the need for rigid discipline, coping with the grind, the tilt control, the BR management...it's a very tall order nowadays and being "ok" doesn't really cut it any more. Online anyway.

One other thing: most players have no conception whatsoever about variance, standard deviation, sample size and the long term. Anyone with a partlcarly massachostic streak shoud give this a go:

http://www.evplusplus.com/poker_tools/variance_simulator/


Suddenly, 500,000 hands seems kinda, you know, woteva.

latenia

Play 100 $11 SNG's on Stars (not turbos) If your ROI is above 10% then you're probably good enough to get better. If you're busto after 20 tournaments then you probably aren't. Start after 9PM and play for 3 or 4 hours a day.

5Aces

I think im a lot better than i actually am too.

Eyecatcher

I found that you must have some record of your games played either with one of the poker trackers or a good old fashioned notebook.

Every game you play..eg note down site played/start date + time/finish time/no of runners/buy in/total buy ins (rebuys) / finishing position/ P/L (profit/loss) etc and any other info you think pertinant ie 'was drinking'

When its all wrote down/ recorded it is easier to see where/what is best for you and what needs work

It also encourages discipline

To get into a negative frame of mind whilst thinking you are 'quite good' is not really gonna work ..bottom line and facts tell the tale

Just my thoughts on matter

Good Luck

Royal Irish

If your playing in small cheap buy in tournaments your head will get done in by people who just dont take it too seriously.

I play poker alot. More so in cash games. I also played in tournaments in Asia aswell which were an experience (won 1 in Cebu).

But about a year ago I went through a really bad run of luck. It bothered me that much I just had to do something about it.

I solved it by changing my style of play. I sat down and picked out my 10 or 12 best hands and only played them. No matter how low the blind was, if I didnt have 1 of those 10 or 12 holding cards, I would fold. It brought about an instant turn of form. You will win more than you lose if you play tight like this.

But it might create a downside that you might earn too much respect at the table. Like been unable to get paid with great hands.

Around the same time last year when I went into great detail about changing my style of play, I also started trying to learn more about "tells" and one of the most important things about tells, is too watch people and pay attention to hands your not involved in.

It all takes alot of patience and alot of folding.

Your mileage may vary

DeadMoney

Royal Irish do you offer coaching??? Pm me will pay top rates!

Royal Irish

You got your coaching above. Seriously though, follow that advice to start with and you will notice a massive improvement in your game. Other advice would be learning the maths side of poker in more detail, ie working out the the % of an "out" coming in the turn or river. Alot people think they know how to do that but I have met very few who do.

Its all a big blend of your own self control and patience, maths and reading tells.

My personal favorite is giving out fake tells.

DeadMoney

Royal Irish wrote: »

You got your coaching above. Seriously though, follow that advice to start with and you will notice a massive improvement in your game. Other advice would be learning the maths side of poker in more detail, ie working out the the % of an "out" coming in the turn or river. Alot people think they know how to do that but I have met very few who do.

Its all a big blend of your own self control and patience, maths and reading tells.

My personal favorite is giving out fake tells.

**** me this is a massive level right? If it is its hilarious

Royal Irish

Deadmoney whats the 3+ rule from the previous hand for working out your % in the next hand?

DeadMoney

Royal Irish wrote: »

Deadmoney whats the 3+ rule from the previous hand for working out your % in the next hand?

I don't know I'm only shot taking 400nl, I'm not ballin with you and Caro's book of tells at the nosebleeds quite yet!

phantom_lord

Royal Irish wrote: »

Deadmoney whats the 3+ rule from the previous hand for working out your % in the next hand?

huh?

gorrrr72

phantom_lord wrote: »

huh?

That's exactly what I said:D

MagicalBikeRide

Suited wrote: »

What a ******* thing to say.

[x] This is a level...
[x] I like...
[ ] People get the level?

wannabecraig

Royal Irish wrote: »

Deadmoney whats the 3+ rule from the previous hand for working out your % in the next hand?

I know this works very well for me. I look at my cards, if they're good I raise, if they're not I probably just fold. The % of time this helps me is 3+ the % of time it doesn't, I mean it's pretty invaluable.

That and reverse tells; like when I have a monster hand I go 'Ah ****, not 72 off again, I get this hand every time!!!' Then when I get raised into, I say, I'm all-in... oddly enough though, when I do my reverse tell I very rarely get bet into, and when I do the guy usually has a better hand than me... But I still do it...

AdMMM

wannabecraig wrote: »

I know this works very well for me. I look at my cards, if they're good I raise, if they're not I probably just fold. The % of time this helps me is 3+ the % of time it doesn't, I mean it's pretty invaluable.

That and reverse tells; like when I have a monster hand I go 'Ah ****, not 72 off again, I get this hand every time!!!' Then when I get raised into, I say, I'm all-in... oddly enough though, when I do my reverse tell I very rarely get bet into, and when I do the guy usually has a better hand than me... But I still do it...

huh?

MagicalBikeRide

AdMMM wrote: »

huh?

+1

wannabecraig

^^ I hope youz are joking!

MagicalBikeRide

wannabecraig wrote: »

^^ I hope youz are joking!

[ ] Biggest level yet
[x] You talk jibberish

wannabecraig

MagicalBikeRide wrote: »

Biggest level yet?

You'd hope so wouldn't you!

dbs_sailor

was going to weigh in but looks like everythings covered - especially the **** about reverse tells - really important stuff. haha

i went insane last year from bad beats. mostly because i was playing low-mid buyin tournies and getting dogged horrifically again and again and again. these days i'm playing a lot of HU shootouts and around 75% of my last 20 or 30 showdowns where i had a hand dominated resulted in me being 3-outered. usually comes on the flop.

i presume that this spell will eventually pass and the hope is i'll get a solid month where i run like god and make millions like that "only play 1 of the 12 best opening hands" guy... the only piece of wisdom i feel qualified to impart about poker is the following: every 3 months or so you'll look back and realize you're a MUCH better player now than you were 3 months earlier. this'll happen over and over and over again as you get a better sense of the game, get comfortable using different lines in different situations and learn the maths more and more. noticing that you're improving should be a humbling experience as you remember how cocky you were about your abilities and you realize you've come on in leaps and bounds in a small period of time. you'll probably come to the revelation that you're not a poker genius and that you'd do well to become an average reg or a tournie player who runs well for a single day for a big payoff... that pretty much sums up my poker experience.

MagicalBikeRide

Simple solution - Buy PT3 and compare your results with your EV...

Freyja

carrig2007 wrote: »

I just need to have a little rant about how I'm going with the game at the moment. I'm a decent enough player and i've done ok from it considering i've only really started playing a lot with maybe 9 months. My best results tend to come in 8-9 player sit n go's at a local pub after i get knocked out of the tourney. I also fare good enough in the tourney in college. I've tried online and havent done too much to be honest. Mainly paddy power (where i find the bad beats to be outragous, maybe it's just me im not sure...) and a bit of full tilt. I'm convinced that I'm a good player and deserve to be doing better than I am at the moment. I watch poker on the net nearly every day, and play nearly everyday also. Better players than me have told me that they're surprised with my lack of results in the tourey in the local pub and I have no good answer for them. I think that I do run pretty bad at times, although sometimes its just a case of bad player calling me with muck and outflopping me. Anyway i think thats enough. I'd be interested to see what people think and if anybody has a similar story and if I should consider some changes etc...

Thanks

Stop playing with Fish....ask around for better standard of games....and pay attention to other people at the table when your not involved in hands...keep mixing up your style while still playing hands that give good odds, keep playing, It will turn for you (excuse the pun)