Question about carbs

Iristxo

I have only been lurking around this forum for a couple of days but after reading a couple of posts I am now wondering, are people steering away from fruit because it has carbs? So then your diet consists of what, veg and a ton of fat coming from dairy and meat products? Just wondering, thanks.

Sapsorrow

My diet is mainly non-starchy veg with green leafies at least once a day (unless I'm having a bad few days), followed by beans, legumes, tofu, nuts and seeds(2-3 times a day), grains once a day (usually porridge as I'm trying not to eat bread or flour products anymore), and some low sugar fruitswith the porridge (usually just mixed berries) and a small amount of olive and coconut oil (trying to phase these out now though and will replace them with more fresh nuts and seeds).

I'm also trying to start eating eggs 2 or so times a week, but I'm not a fan of dairy or meat at all from a health (dairy) or moral (meat) perspective.
I'm also as you know starting to juice veggies now.

My diet isn't perfect every day as things are a bit hectic and unpredictable with college lately but most days this is very close to what I do.

I personally strive to eat as much veg as possible and am trying to focus on the green ones, so for me I find fruit is too convenient an excuse to not eat my veg. Veg is much healthier than fruit (with the exception of dark berries imo) especially if you're someone who cares about their sugar intake or is trying to lose weight.

A lot of it has to do with changing your perspective, I've learned a lot about carbohydrate metabolism since coming to this forum as it has inspired me to go off and look into it for myself seeing how passionately others here felt about it. I realised since that fruit in excess (like lots of dried fruits, juices, tropical fruits) despite having vitamins and minerals still pack a hell of a sugar punch and isn't necessarily good for you, it's quite shocking once you look into it. It made me realise that yes an apple is a hell of a lot better than a mars bar but it's not nearly as good as a bowl full of brocoli and for me has become my treat of choice now.

You'll find the low carb dieters (that word seems wrong as it's a lifestlye for many of them) here eat a hell of a lot of veg including green ones, so theres no risk of missing out on any nutrition by avoiding fruit if one has a very high veg consumption with some of it raw.

The whole high fat/cholesterol being bad thing is another debate altogether! I'll leave someone who knows what they're talking about explain that one as it's something I'm new to myself.

El_Dangeroso

Fruit is a bit of a double-edged sword. On the one hand you have the vitamins and the pectin.

On the other hand we have been breeding fruit to be sweeter and sweeter since we started growing it. I read the statistic that apples now contain so much sugar that some varieties now cause tooth decay!

On the whole carb issue, are all carbs bad? Definitely not. There are bad carbs just as there are bad fats and bad proteins, generally speaking the worst foods are ones we have only 'invented' in the last century. If you are a healthy weight, stick to real unprocessed food and you won't go too far wrong.

Sapsorrow

:eek::eek::eek:
New research by the U.S. Department of Agriculture found that the typical modern apple now has a sugar content of up to 15 per cent, which means it contains the equivalent of four teaspoons of sugar.

corkcomp

it depends! Take for an example, a banana. A banana will have a totally different effect on a 50 year old sedentary person who already has insulin regulation issues, vs a 20 something year old active person who is not over weight .. like most things there is no black and while. however, berries of all kinds are great for everybody.

rubadub

khrystyna100 wrote: »

New research by the U.S. Department of Agriculture found that the typical modern apple now has a sugar content of up to 15 per cent, which means it contains the equivalent of four teaspoons of sugar.

Most apple juice is 11% sugar (I used to brew it and still check it), grape juice is around 15%. They can use figures to shock anything, look at ads for crisps "only so much salt/fat etc".

Skimmed milk and carrots have a higher % of sugar than full sugar lilt!

Sapsorrow

rubadub wrote: »

Most apple juice is 11% sugar (I used to brew it and still check it), grape juice is around 15%. They can use figures to shock anything, look at ads for crisps "only so much salt/fat etc".

Skimmed milk and carrots have a higher % of sugar than full sugar lilt!

It wasn't so much the percentage as the 4 tsps that shocked me actually!

Alessandra

This is slightly worrying to me. I have been relying on fruit recently as a extra energy boost since I have cut out bread and other starchy foods.
Surely any negative effects of the fruit are outweighed by its positives?
Too many apples won't cause me to put on weight surely?:eek:

Sapsorrow

Alessandra wrote: »

This is slightly worrying to me. I have been relying on fruit recently as a extra energy boost since I have cut out bread and other starchy foods.
Surely any negative effects of the fruit are outweighed by its positives?
Too many apples won't cause me to put on weight surely?:eek:

Your weightloss will be more efficient if you leave them out, but if you are happy to lose weight a little bit more slowely then there's no reason to give them up.

Transform

Alessandra wrote: »

This is slightly worrying to me. I have been relying on fruit recently as a extra energy boost since I have cut out bread and other starchy foods.
Surely any negative effects of the fruit are outweighed by its positives?
Too many apples won't cause me to put on weight surely?:eek:

stick to berries - low GI, less calories win win.

Yes too much fruit can be an issue and i recommend clients have some nuts and seeds with fruit. Again SOME nuts and seeds NOT the whole blinkin bag.

El_Dangeroso

Transform wrote: »

Yes too much fruit can be an issue and i recommend clients have some nuts and seeds with fruit. Again SOME nuts and seeds NOT the whole blinkin bag.

Haha! But! But, they are so delicious! Pistachios are my bete noir. Once bought a kilo bag in lidl thinking it would last me a month, it was gone in 5 days.I buy small bags now.

Getwellsoon

I know someone who lost weight by eating tons and tons of fruit. It would be literally all he'd eat all day until his dinner. It worked for him in the weightloss sense, but I'd always be telling him how ridiculous/bad it was for him. I think if you rely on it too heavily in a diet you can put weight back on easily if you go back to more normal eating habits. I see nothing wrong with having a couple portions of fruit a day though, I really should try to eat more. I think that if you substitute a sugary fruit instead of sweets or white/milk chocolate then that has to be a good thing.

Iristxo

Transform wrote: »

stick to berries - low GI, less calories win win.

Yes too much fruit can be an issue and i recommend clients have some nuts and seeds with fruit. Again SOME nuts and seeds NOT the whole blinkin bag.

Why is that? Mixing nuts and seeds with fruit makes the digestion a lot more difficult for me. It goes against food combination theories, doesn't it? I thought fruit was better eaten alone and on an empty stomach.

Transform

Iristxo wrote: »

Why is that? Mixing nuts and seeds with fruit makes the digestion a lot more difficult for me. It goes against food combination theories, doesn't it? I thought fruit was better eaten alone and on an empty stomach.

food combining is largely BS and i would not be a big fan.

if your digestion is sluggish then address that with some juicing (veg), detox etc

Iristxo

Transform wrote: »

food combining is largely BS and i would not be a big fan.

if your digestion is sluggish then address that with some juicing (veg), detox etc

My digestion is not sluggish. But in my experience anyone's digestion is better served if you follow some basic food combination rules. It's not difficult at all to prove that food combination really works: anyone can get up in the morning and, on an empty stomach have a few pieces of raw fresh fruit. Most people will be in the toilet within an hour. It goes in and right out again. Eaten, digested, out. Instead, try eating something else and a few pieces of fruit "on top". The juices that the stomach needs to digest the fruit are different to the ones that are needed to digest other foods. I find myself that if I eat something else with fruit or before fruit the fruit "rots" in my stomach and the digestion is much more difficult. I get wind and feel sluggish afterwards. Similarly if i eat two types of food that will individually not hurt me (like carbs and protein or whatever) but put together they sap my energy big time. I am no scientist and don't know the science behind it but have tried it on myself.

In any case, why is it that you recommend eating some seeds with the fruit?

heybaby

For anyone watching their carbs and have resorted to fruit as a healthier carb source than bread etc, unless you have just woken up or have just completed a session in the gym, its best to opt for a fruit that is slowly digested to prevent a pike in blood sugar levels and subsequent fat storage, fruit that fall into this low glycaemic index category are berries, and melon. You can eat buckets of berries strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, cranberries as they are low in calories too and high in fibre. Melons are also advised if you want a slow digesting low calorie carb source. You can buy berries frozen which is by far the cheaper option.

Iristxo

Source: http://www.carbs-information.com/gi-diet-fruit-veg.htm

Fruit and Vegetables Are Low GI Foods

Generally speaking, most fresh fruits and vegetables are extremely healthy and provide a range of micronutrients, including vitamins, minerals and phytochemicals. Fruits and vegetables are an important part of any healthy GI diet plan as they tend to have low GI values because of their high fiber content. Even higher GI fruits (eg. cantaloupe) are unlikely to cause an adverse glycemic response unless eaten to excess or without other low-GI foods. The exception is dried fruit which typically contains a high level of sugar and is a high-GI fruit.
Low GI Cooking

To maintain low GI values in fruits and vegetables, do not overcook as this raises their value on the glycemic index, and also reduces their nutritional value.
GI Diet Advice on Eating Fruit and Veg

To maintain stable blood glucose levels and healthy diet nutrition, enjoy a wide range of fresh fruits and vegetables, both as snacks and at mealtimes. See below for specific GI diet advice about fruit and veg.
Best Fruits and Vegetables To Eat on a Healthy GI Diet Program

Foods with a lower glycemic response in this food group include:

All fresh fruits and vegetables are fine except those listed below. Dried apples, apricots, cranberries and plums (prunes).
Types of Fruits and Veggies To Avoid on a GI Diet Program

Foods in this food group which raise blood glucose levels more rapidly, include:

Cantaloupe/water melon. Most dried fruit. Parsnips, plantain, potatoes (except boiled new), swede, turnip, yam. Note: Go easy with corn, pumpkin, squash and sweet potato.

Source: link above.

Why is everyone all of a sudden talking about the insulin response when eating fruit? All on-line info that I can get hold off indicates the opposite!

brianthebard

http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/whattoeat/a/glycemicindlist_3.htm

one example of glycemic index of fruit. Not low gi.

http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_food_diet/glycemic_index.php

Second source.

http://www.weightlossforall.com/glyemic-list-fruits-vegs.htm

third. A few types of fruit are low gi, but the majority are medium-high. You perhaps need to look a bit harder.
Sugar front fruit is obviously going to raise insulin levels, there's no way anyone could argue otherwise.

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

My digestion is not sluggish. But in my experience anyone's digestion is better served if you follow some basic food combination rules. It's not difficult at all to prove that food combination really works: anyone can get up in the morning and, on an empty stomach have a few pieces of raw fresh fruit. Most people will be in the toilet within an hour. It goes in and right out again. Eaten, digested, out. Instead, try eating something else and a few pieces of fruit "on top". The juices that the stomach needs to digest the fruit are different to the ones that are needed to digest other foods. I find myself that if I eat something else with fruit or before fruit the fruit "rots" in my stomach and the digestion is much more difficult. I get wind and feel sluggish afterwards. Similarly if i eat two types of food that will individually not hurt me (like carbs and protein or whatever) but put together they sap my energy big time. I am no scientist and don't know the science behind it but have tried it on myself.

In any case, why is it that you recommend eating some seeds with the fruit?

No offense but there is no logic in terms of either physiology or biochemistry to that post whatsoever. Fruit or meat etc is NOT going to rot in your stomach. Everything is 'rotted' in a sense by endogenous microflora in the colon however.

Iristxo

khrystyna100 wrote: »

No offense but there is no logic in terms of either physiology or biochemistry to that post whatsoever. Fruit or meat etc is NOT going to rot in your stomach. Everything is 'rotted' in a sense by endogenous microflora in the colon however.

No offence but I thought somebody would come up with a scientific explanation that I can certainly not provide that would de-bunk what I just said.

Oh well... just my experience. No super-secret profession behind this one

Iristxo

This is what I was referring to:

Food Combining Principles

People who suffer from symptoms of indigestion including gas, bloating, constipation, diarrhea, or fatigue may benefit from following the principles of food combining. Because different types of foods require different enzymes, different degrees of acidity, and different lengths of time for complete digestion, it stands to reason that those foods requiring the same digestive conditions should be eaten together, while other foods requiring a different set of digestive conditions should be eaten separately. The logic in this is that when foods requiring different digestive conditions are eaten together, the digestive processes slow down and the food begins to ferment causing gas, bloating and the associated discomfort so typical of indigestion. Knowing which foods require a similar digestive environment and the length of time required for full digestion can make meal planning easier and may result in less discomfort following meal time.

Source: http://nutrition.suite101.com/article.cfm/indigestion_and_food_combining

I am sure some of you will come and tell me this is largely not true because of some recent study that I don't know off. Sorry. don't mean to be smart, I appreciate everyone's input, otherwise I would not ask

Iristxo

Note too, that raw foods are generally easier to digest because they supply their own digestive enzymes, while cooked foods require the body to produce enzymes for break-down.

Source: same as above

I was also under the impression that this was true... but I have been informed already in a different post that it isn't.

corkcomp

yes there are merits to food combining .. thats all

Sapsorrow

That link is just some article written by a freelance journalist/primary school teacher not exactly a specialist in nutrition. I don't need a study to tell me it's wrong because I've studied basic physiology and I know how the human body works this isn't complicated stuff that require people to go off and do cell culture studies or the likes to make sense of it we know already how the digestive system works. The human digestive system can cope perfectly well with different combinations of healthy foods and has done for milennia. Like I said before the idea that plant enzymes help you digest your food is ridiculous.

Transform

Iristxo wrote: »

Source: http://www.carbs-information.com/gi-diet-fruit-veg.htm

Fruit and Vegetables Are Low GI Foods

Generally speaking, most fresh fruits and vegetables are extremely healthy and provide a range of micronutrients, including vitamins, minerals and phytochemicals. Fruits and vegetables are an important part of any healthy GI diet plan as they tend to have low GI values because of their high fiber content. Even higher GI fruits (eg. cantaloupe) are unlikely to cause an adverse glycemic response unless eaten to excess or without other low-GI foods. The exception is dried fruit which typically contains a high level of sugar and is a high-GI fruit.
Low GI Cooking

To maintain low GI values in fruits and vegetables, do not overcook as this raises their value on the glycemic index, and also reduces their nutritional value.
GI Diet Advice on Eating Fruit and Veg

To maintain stable blood glucose levels and healthy diet nutrition, enjoy a wide range of fresh fruits and vegetables, both as snacks and at mealtimes. See below for specific GI diet advice about fruit and veg.
Best Fruits and Vegetables To Eat on a Healthy GI Diet Program

Foods with a lower glycemic response in this food group include:

All fresh fruits and vegetables are fine except those listed below. Dried apples, apricots, cranberries and plums (prunes).
Types of Fruits and Veggies To Avoid on a GI Diet Program

Foods in this food group which raise blood glucose levels more rapidly, include:

Cantaloupe/water melon. Most dried fruit. Parsnips, plantain, potatoes (except boiled new), swede, turnip, yam. Note: Go easy with corn, pumpkin, squash and sweet potato.

Source: link above.

Why is everyone all of a sudden talking about the insulin response when eating fruit? All on-line info that I can get hold off indicates the opposite!

that post is just full of massive holes!

Transform

khrystyna100 wrote: »

That link is just some article written by a freelance journalist/primary school teacher not exactly a specialist in nutrition. I don't need a study to tell me it's wrong because I've studied basic physiology and I know how the human body works this isn't complicated stuff that require people to go off and do cell culture studies or the likes to make sense of it we know already how the digestive system works. The human digestive system can cope perfectly well with different combinations of healthy foods and has done for milennia. Like I said before the idea that plant enzymes help you digest your food is ridiculous.

100% right

Transform

khrystyna100 wrote: »

That link is just some article written by a freelance journalist/primary school teacher not exactly a specialist in nutrition. I don't need a study to tell me it's wrong because I've studied basic physiology and I know how the human body works this isn't complicated stuff that require people to go off and do cell culture studies or the likes to make sense of it we know already how the digestive system works. The human digestive system can cope perfectly well with different combinations of healthy foods and has done for milennia. Like I said before the idea that plant enzymes help you digest your food is ridiculous.

what i was saying - food combining is largely BS

just another excuse for people to get a little anal about their food rather than focusing on the basics.

seeds/nuts with fruit can be of use for most people as they are a good combo of protein, carbs and essential fats - oh and it lowers the GI of the snack also

no need for recent studies its just basic physiology

Iristxo

Oohhh, I see what's going on now. Looks like there's lots of people in this forum following the low-carb "trend". I must admit I hadn't had a good look at the forum before I started posting and I was surprised by all the questions about carbs but I see it now. I should have done my "homework" better before starting posting in the forum.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It's a minefield there, isn't it?

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

Oohhh, I see what's going on now. Looks like there's lots of people in this forum following the low-carb "trend". I must admit I hadn't had a good look at the forum before I started posting and I was surprised by all the questions about carbs but I see it now. I should have done my "homework" better before starting posting in the forum.

Thanks everyone for your responses. It's a minefield there, isn't it?

I prefer to say I'm carb conscious. It's nearly impossible to be low carb as a veggie/vegan and my diet certainly doesn't fit the criteria for low carb.
Calling it a trend is fairly patronizing, people here who follow a low carb lifestyle are generally already very fit and healthy, not looking (or indeed in need) for a quick fix crash diet.

Iristxo

I'm reading all threads. Boy, do people like to argue around here.

Iristxo

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I prefer to say I'm carb conscious. It's nearly impossible to be low carb as a veggie/vegan and my diet certainly doesn't fit the criteria for low carb.
Calling it a trend is fairly patronizing, people here who follow a low carb lifestyle are generally already very fit and healthy, not looking (or indeed in need) for a quick fix crash diet.

Oh, no, I didn't mean to be patronizing, I just could not think of a better word. I am sure it is a perfectly good choice for many or whatever. Jezz, one has to measure their words around here.

Iristxo

For all that's it's worth, the people in the raw food forums I usually frequent are a lot less defensive!

Go on, you all shoot me now.

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

I'm reading all threads. Boy, do people like to argue around here.

Oops sorry that's my fault I misinterpreted you then!

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

For all that's it's worth, the people in the raw food forums I usually frequent are a lot less defensive!

And a lot more misinformed!

brianthebard

Iristxo wrote: »

Jezz, one has to measure their words around here.

No, just try and make arguments based on factual information and people will take you seriously.

corkcomp

Iristxo wrote: »

I'm reading all threads. Boy, do people like to argue around here.

yup! there is a definate trend alright

Sapsorrow

corkcomp wrote: »

yup! there is a definate trend alright

For a good reason

Iristxo

brianthebard wrote: »

No, just try and make arguments based on factual information and people will take you seriously.

Hehe I'm not getting into that again. And to be honest I am here to "learn" more than to "teach". I will contribute alright and if someone find something useful in what I say that'll be grand.

I'll measure my words from now on though... I am starting to see how things work around here!

Iristxo

khrystyna100 wrote: »

And a lot more misinformed!

I think I prefer to be more misinformed but happier!

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

I think I prefer to be more misinformed but happier!

Lol I know my body was a hell of a lot happier when I packed in the raw foodism, I was much happier too because my IBS pretty much went away

Iristxo

Iristxo wrote: »

I'm reading all threads. Boy, do people like to argue around here.

Sorry, that was meant to read "old" and not "all". I'll be here till the cows come home if I do that!

Sapsorrow

Iristxo wrote: »

I'll measure my words from now on though... I am starting to see how things work around here!

Don't measure your words, do the opposite and provide a clear and logical arguement and back yourself up with properly sourced data not pop nutrition articles written by randomers on the internet and people won't be inclined to argue with you. Tbh it's kinda irresistable not argueing when you know something makes no sense

itsallaboutheL

*beats face of table*

Iristxo

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Don't measure your words, do the opposite and provide a clear and logical arguement and back yourself up with properly sourced data not pop nutrition articles written by randomers on the internet and people won't be inclined to argue with you. Tbh it's kinda irresistable not argueing when you know something makes no sense

Oh, Jeeeezz. Yes, I got it.

Transform

khrystyna100 wrote: »

I prefer to say I'm carb conscious. It's nearly impossible to be low carb as a veggie/vegan and my diet certainly doesn't fit the criteria for low carb.
Calling it a trend is fairly patronizing, people here who follow a low carb lifestyle are generally already very fit and healthy, not looking (or indeed in need) for a quick fix crash diet.

agreed

Transform

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Don't measure your words, do the opposite and provide a clear and logical arguement and back yourself up with properly sourced data not pop nutrition articles written by randomers on the internet and people won't be inclined to argue with you. Tbh it's kinda irresistable not argueing when you know something makes no sense

one of the best written replies i have seen on the nutrition forum in a while