Is Our Future Really all that Bright?

Co45

We have all been hearing about 'the next crop' of youngsters. We have been told these upcoming players have the winning mentality thats been missing in the Irish time until very recently and have NZ style skill sets. But are we getting ahead of ourselves?
Granted, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Ferris, Healy, Heaslip and Sexton are all going to be excellent players in the future but what about the rest?
Well, firstly we have Keith Earls, many predicted him to be the natural successor to O'Driscoll's jersey but [and this sounds harsh] I think he is extremely overrated. He simply isn't close to O'Driscoll's level. Now I know many will say no one will ever be at O'Driscoll's level but Earls was touted by many as a future superstar of the game and yet at 22 he seems very ordinary. I don't think the guy will ever be world class and think hes been hyped to high heaven.
Who do we have in the second row? Cullen, Casey, O'Connell and O'Callaghan will all be retiring soon. Devin Toner isn't anywhere near their level and probably never will be. Toner had one good season and has simply disappeared. Ryan is not even Heineken Cup standard. We have no one of O'Connell's class or even O'Callaghan and Cullen's level coming through right now.
Sean O'Brien has put in some very good performances but does anyone think he'll ever be at the likes of Brussow's level? Or even close? The guy is a powerful runner but his hands are terrible and he'll probably end up another Leamy.
Tomas O'Leary isn't international standard. I don't know whats happened but the guy is a serious liability and currently I wouldn't even have him starting for Munster. He has been found out at the top level.
Fergus McFadden is a decent player. That's it. Hes 23 now and hes nowhere close to D'arcy or O'Driscoll's level and never will be.
Bright future?

1.Healy [World Class]
2.Best [Average]
3.Court [Below Average]
4.Toner [Below Average]
5.Ryan [Below Average]
6.Ferris [World Class]
7.O'Brien [Average]
8.Heaslip [World Class]
9.O'Leary [Below Average]
10.Sexton [Above Average]
11.Fitzgerald [World Class]
12.McFadden [Average]
13.Earls [Average]
14.Bowe [World Class]
15.Kearney [World Class]

What does everyone think? Are we overhyping our future?

thomond2006

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

As Hooky said last weekend: "We are a nation of optimists".

Gijoe

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

We're not a nation of optimists anyway. A nation of sensationalist over reactors. A loss in Paris and most the rugby journos reckon this is the end of an era, players past their prime etc.! blah blah blah, half the problem is with the tripe over reactions the Irish rugby media churn out after every win/loss.

If we win, we're the best Irish team ever, lose and we're bottom of the barrel.

Personally, I think we're a very good team, capable of beating anyone at home (including the All Blacks), but have limitations playing away. That's not to say we can't win away but can we win away consistently enough like in NZ to win a WC?? I don't think so.

A semi-final is definitely well within our capability and a final at a push.

thomond2006

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

We should aim for at least the Semi Finals at 2011.

Ciaran-Irl

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

• I'd question how soon some of the players you mention would retire. The likes of Paul O Connell, Donncha O Callaghan & Leo Cullen are likely to play until they are 35 or 36. Look at Simon Shaw for England - he is nearly 37. Given that this trio is in and about 31, there is a chance that one of them could be a starting lock in the 2016 World Cup. Probably Paul O Connell, who would turn 36 in October 2016 - around the time of the World Cup. Frankly, if Simon Shaw can do it, Paul O Connell can do it.
  
• There are also alternative prospects than the lads you mention in many cases. Jennings is 28 for example. no reason why he couldn't be playing at the age of 34/35 during the 2016 WC. Caldwell is less of a prospect than Donncha Ryan and others.
  
• Best & Cronin are better Hookers than 'Average'. Especially if you think we can already call Cian Healy world class.
  
• You cannot possibly decide once and for all if a player is good or bad very early in their career. Toner may well become a good player.
  
• There are a few younger players that will burst through between now and 2016 that we have never heard about. Some, like Andrew Conway, we have heard about, though it is far too early to pass judgement.
  

chupacabra

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

Ian Nagle, Dave Foley, Ciaran Ruddock: Potnetial to be world class second rows

Dominic Ryan, Rhys Ruddock, Paul Ryan, Brian O'Hara, Eoin McKeown: Potential to be world class back rows

POD, Dave Moore, Connor Murray: Potential, Scrum half

Flyhalf: Not so much

And the rest of the backline is well secure, too many good players to mention. Front row is, as always, a worry but the likes of Jack O'Connel, Jack McGrath, Adam Macklin, Paddy Butler and Steven Archer have it in them to be full internationals someday. I think this thread it totally knee jerk and misinformed.

bamboozle

Ranked outside the Top 4

Co45 wrote: »

We have all been hearing about 'the next crop' of youngsters. We have been told these upcoming players have the winning mentality thats been missing in the Irish time until very recently and have NZ style skill sets. But are we getting ahead of ourselves?
Granted, Fitzgerald, Kearney, Ferris, Healy, Heaslip and Sexton are all going to be excellent players in the future but what about the rest?
Well, firstly we have Keith Earls, many predicted him to be the natural successor to O'Driscoll's jersey but [and this sounds harsh] I think he is extremely overrated. He simply isn't close to O'Driscoll's level. Now I know many will say no one will ever be at O'Driscoll's level but Earls was touted by many as a future superstar of the game and yet at 22 he seems very ordinary. I don't think the guy will ever be world class and think hes been hyped to high heaven.
Who do we have in the second row? Cullen, Casey, O'Connell and O'Callaghan will all be retiring soon. Devin Toner isn't anywhere near their level and probably never will be. Toner had one good season and has simply disappeared. Ryan is not even Heineken Cup standard. We have no one of O'Connell's class or even O'Callaghan and Cullen's level coming through right now.
Sean O'Brien has put in some very good performances but does anyone think he'll ever be at the likes of Brussow's level? Or even close? The guy is a powerful runner but his hands are terrible and he'll probably end up another Leamy.
Tomas O'Leary isn't international standard. I don't know whats happened but the guy is a serious liability and currently I wouldn't even have him starting for Munster. He has been found out at the top level.
Fergus McFadden is a decent player. That's it. Hes 23 now and hes nowhere close to D'arcy or O'Driscoll's level and never will be.
Bright future?


What does everyone think? Are we overhyping our future?

i agree with a lot of your points, the only downside of the provincial system here is that players dont get enough exposure, you could argue that McFadden's career has stalled if not gone backwards since starring in the churchill cup, and this is purely down to lack of game time. I agree with you re Earls, i just dont see what they hype's about, he looks physically weak on the pitch...
i think better use needs to be made of Connacht and a loan system so players get exposure, look at McLaughlin as a case in point of players getting a run of games to prove themselves.
Regarding the longer term, Macken, Conway, McGrath, Spence will all be knocking on the door soon but the most important thing in my mind is to get a replacement in for Hayes now, not next autumn now, Hayes is past it and we need a new TH to start accrueing experience at the top level so we dont fall assunder when the WC comes around.

buck65

Ireland are still the 2nd best team in Europe which makes them 5th in the world. (Personally I don't rate Argentina as anywhere near top 5.) Regardless of winning a Grand Slam , and beating the Boks , and being 3rd in the world for a while we were never really THAT good. Even our Slam was filled with deserved luck. Ireland showed on Saturday that they are an aging side in slow decline. Even against a paltry Italian side we struggled at times. A turgid Scotland and England made us look ordinary last year. The RWC is coming 2 years too late for us to make a semi final or final.
It was great for the golden generation to win a Slam as we were there or thereabouts for the best part of a decade and the Triple Crowns proved that. We , like it or not, are in transition and need a season or two to get back to where we were. For RWC2011 We need replacements at 3, 12, 13. We need depth at 1, 9, 10, 4, 5. All pivotal places in any side. This Irish squad can still do a job but we will be cruelly exposed by the Top 4 (NZ, Aus, SA, Fra) come next year.

ScrubsfanChris

My God, we lose one match and it's the end of the world.

buck65

Chris, if we lost a game it wouldn't be too bad. We got annihilated. It was boys against men stuff. Basteraud ran about 20 yards with O Driscoll hanging off him like a rag doll. Trinh Duc gave O Gara a 2 yard start and still out ran him over 10 yards. Earls got swallowed on numerous occasions. John Hayes looked like an old man coming off. Court looked like a kid coming on in comparison to the French props. Harinordoquy is faster than our midfield.

Of Course we will bounce back and maybe come second , but to ignore this and write it off as a bad day at the office would be foolish.

This is the level we need to be at next year, and it's not going to happen with our current players and game plan. We are too predictable. Fance said it all week that they had us figured out and they were going to expose us.

thomond2006

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

This was done in the Irish Independent Six Nations Supplement.

The number in brackets refers to the age the player will be at RWC2011:

*Added by me

Fullback
Incumbents: Rob Kearney (25)
Options: Paddy Wallace (32), Geordan Murphy (33), Denis Hurley (27)
For the Future: Felix Jones (24), Andrew Conway (20), Dave Kearney (22)

Wingers
Incumbents: Keith Earls (24), Tommy Bowe (27)
Options: Luke Fitzgerald (24), Shane Horgan (33), Andrew Trimble* (27), Ian Dowling (29), Johne Murphy (26)
For the Future: Tiernan O'Halloran (20), Nevan Spence (21)

Centres
Incumbents: Brian O'Driscoll (32), Gordon D'Arcy (31), Paddy Wallace (32)
Options: Keith Earls (24), Andrew Trimble (27), Fergus McFadden (25), Darren Cave (24), Tom Gleeson (26)
For the Future: Brendan Macken (20), Scott Deasy (23), Eoin Griffin (20)

Fly-Half
Incumbents: Ronan O'Gara (34), Jonny Sexton (26)
Options: Ian Humphreys (29), Ian Keatley (24), Paddy Wallace (32)
For the Future: James McKinney (20), Kyle Tonetti (24), Andrew Burke (24), Luke Marshall (20), Paddy Jackson (18)

Scrum-Half
Incumbents: Tomás O'Leary (28)
Options: Peter Stringer (33), Eoin Reddan (31), Isaac Boss (31)
For the Future: Dave Moore (23), Conor Murray (22), Paul O'Donohue* (24)

Back Row
Incumbents: Stephen Ferris (26), David Wallace (35), Jamie Heaslip (27)
Options: Denis Leamy (29), Shane Jennings (30), Seán O'Brien (24), Kevin McLaughlin (27), Chris Henry (27), Niall Ronan (29), Willie Faloon (25)
For the Future: Eoin McKeown (20), Danny Qualter (19), Aaron Connelly (19), Rhys Ruddock* (21)

Second Row
Incumbents: Donncha O'Callaghan (32), Paul O'Connell (32)
Options: Leo Cullen (33), Mick O'Driscoll (33), Devin Toner (25), Malcolm O'Kelly (37), Donnacha Ryan (27), Dan Touhy (26), Ryan Caldwell (27)
For the Future: Ian Nagle (23), Dave Foley (23)

Hooker
Incumbents: Jerry Flannery (33), Rory Best (29)
Options: John Fogarty (34), Bernard Jackman (35), Denis Fogarty (28), Sean Cronin (25), Damian Varley (28)
For the Future: Niall Annett (20)

Props
Incumbents: Cian Healy (24), John Hayes (37), Marcus Horan (34)
Options: Tom Court (31), Tony Buckley (31), Mike Ross (31), Brett Wilkinson (28), Declan Fitzpatrick (28)
For the Future: Stephen Archer (23)

Peter B

Very optimistic choices in the poll there. I think we are ranked as 5th in the world at the moment which is accurate and historically very good.

As someone said earlier a semi final would be the aim. I think a semi would be a great achievement. While there is a possibility of us winning the thing I think it would be very unlikely. We are being optimistic thinking we are still in within a chance of winning the thing.

The WC is down in NZ where we have never won (against NZ anyway). For England to win the WC they were consistently beating the big teams (including NZ) and beat them away from home. Unfortunately we are not at that stage yet so our chances for a WC look very unlikely. Hope I'm wrong though!:)

EmacB

Ranked outside the Top 4

nevermind:P

walshb

Gijoe wrote: »

If we win, we're the best Irish team ever, lose and we're bottom of the barrel.
.

Have to agree. Jeez, one loss in 13 is hardly the end. We have consistently been a brilliant team over the past few years and we have some great players. It's like we're not happy if we win or lose with the team. We win and we didn't win good enough, we lose, and we're crap; I don't get it.

Diabhal Beag

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

We have good team but I can't see us beating the All Blacks or France in the next 3-4 years. We need to beat at least one of them to get to a Webb Ellis win.

How we finish the Six Nations will show a lot about how we will cope with a big defeat.

Podge_irl

Can't see us beating France in the next 3-4 years??? Wouldn't agree with that at all.

Also, Best is anything but average. He's an excellent hooker.

chupacabra

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

EmacB wrote: »

sexton is only 24 :P

thomond2006 wrote:

The number in brackets refers to the age the player will be at RWC2011:

:rolleyes:

Gijoe

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

Also, forgot to mention in my post earlier. This France team is not as good as they're made out to be. I recall a few of the weekend paper saying they were up there with some of the best French teams. They were clinical against us but that's IMO. I actually fancy Wales to turn them over in Cardiff. So, they had a good game against Ireland - doesn't mean we're suddenly bad.

buck65

walshb wrote: »

Have to agree. Jeez, one loss in 13 is hardly the end. We have consistently been a brilliant team over the past few years and we have some great players. It's like we're not happy if we win or lose with the team. We win and we didn't win good enough, we lose, and we're crap; I don't get it.

We're not crap. France are a good barometer for us to compare ourselves to the Top teams in the world. It's all well and good beating the Boks at home but to go on the road and beat the Top 4 is the test.
Of course I don't agree that we have been brilliant either. Just solid workmanlike. If Stephen Jones had scored that pen last year we would be massive underachievers. One C'ship in 7 years of dominance is hardly brilliant.

Ciaran-Irl

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

We have good team but I can't see us beating the All Blacks or France in the next 3-4 years. We need to beat at least one of them to get to a Webb Ellis win.

How we finish the Six Nations will show a lot about how we will cope with a big defeat.

How do you work that out? We beat them last year for starters. They are a tough prospect in France, but away from home in NZ, they are beatable.

The test is whether we will finally beat NZ. If we beat them away in the summer, this game against France turns into nothing more than a brief blip.

Teferi

About 2/3 years ago many people on this forum were lamenting that we had nobody to look to past this golden generation. Then Fitzi, Kearney etc. burst onto the scene.

One loss that ends an unprecedented run of workmanship and luck and the sky is falling. Ridiculous. The lads will lick their wounds, do a lot of hard work in the next 2 weeks and I think we will see a different team against England.

corny

This thread could look ridiculous in a couple of years time. No one knows how players will develop in the future. Take Sexton for example. Arguably an injury to another player changed the course of his career. Some of the younger lads might turn into world beaters or they might turn out to be journeymen. Near enough impossible to predict.

anonymous_joe

Ranked outside the Top 4

Co45 wrote: »

1.Healy [World Class]
2.Best [Average]
3.Court [Below Average]
4.Toner [Below Average]
5.Ryan [Below Average]
6.Ferris [World Class]
7.O'Brien [Average]
8.Heaslip [World Class]
9.O'Leary [Below Average]
10.Sexton [Above Average]
11.Fitzgerald [World Class]
12.McFadden [Average]
13.Earls [Average]
14.Bowe [World Class]
15.Kearney [World Class]

What does everyone think? Are we overhyping our future?

Looking at the team you've got there, I'd only call Kearney and Fitzgerald as potentially world-class. Most'd be above average.

In all fairness, if you remember any of the 90s for Ireland, then yes, the future's bright. We sucked balls back then. We'll hopefully never be that again. Looking at our youth teams, we consistently punch above our weight.

Of the teams above us atm, South Africa have about 10 times more people playing rugby than us, New Zealand and Australia both have two or three times more at least, while England have ten times more than us and France five times more than us or so.

Given what we have to work with, we've done amazingly well, and look set to continue as a very competitive side.

thehighground

Tommy Bowe looked far from World Class when he came on the international scene first. Luke Fitzgerald looked distinctly average against the ABs 18 months ago, Darcy looked brilliant initially, then looked average for a while and was dropped and came back to be 6Ns player of the series in 2005.

Point is don't write anyone off just yet.

kippy

Ranked outside the Top 4

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

My God, we lose one match and it's the end of the world.

Yeah,
Seriously, people are getting very carried away.
We are a good rugby side but to win the big competitions EVERYTHING has to work out for us. The right players on form, injuries being avoided, a friendly ref and even the bounce of the ball. We may even have to rely on another team underperforming.
What happened last year was excellent and the best year ever for Irish rugby but we have to look at the reality of the situation. Everything worked out for us.
The nations we are competing against generally have larger populations and larger rugby playing populations. They have the pick of a massive player base. Its pretty obvious that to consistently beat them we'd have to have some once in a lifetime squad, and even if we did compete with them one year (like last year) we may not get the same result the following year as they have more players to pick from, better resources etc.
Thats the reality.
The weekend was dissappointing but I didnt think we could win that game. However had we had that bit more luck, bounce of the ball, less nerves etc the result could have been different.
Time to settle and take stock, perhaps appreciate what we have done and consider what we could do if things go our way.
Kippy

walshb

buck65 wrote: »

We're not crap. France are a good barometer for us to compare ourselves to the Top teams in the world. It's all well and good beating the Boks at home but to go on the road and beat the Top 4 is the test.
Of course I don't agree that we have been brilliant either. Just solid workmanlike. If Stephen Jones had scored that pen last year we would be massive underachievers. One C'ship in 7 years of dominance is hardly brilliant.

We have been brilliant, even in defeat. We were close many times to winning the championship, a bounce here and there and a score here and there. So, is it if we only win the championship we are brilliant, and if not, we are not? I don't agree with this. We are a top 5 World Team. Last year we were 4th I think.

Since the 6 nations began, we are joint first with France in number of wins. 36/50.
As I said, a bounce here and there and a score here and there means that we
don't have the same championship wins, but hell, we are still brilliant.

So, we cannot get the Webb Eliis? Does this mean we are not brilliant?

Holy sh!t, we have lost ONE game in 13, lets relax.....

I have to be honest, of all the sports and players and stars in Ireland over the last few years, it is the rugby guys that are the best IMO

If Stephen Jones had scored that penalty we still were brilliant. It wouldn't have changed the fact that we played a magnificent game vs. Wales, with a ref who was out to screw us. Also, if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle....:)

d'Oracle

TBH I have not read too many interviews with him, nor have I heard him speak, so I'm not sure how bright he is.

But he is a very handy player........

Feckin Everybody wrote:

Sexton is the Future

Podge_irl

walshb wrote: »

Since the 6 nations began, we are joint first with France in number of wins. 36/50.

Not anymore we aren't

profitius

I don't know why all the doom and gloom. Irish rugby is going from strength to strength. Look at the squad of players now compared to 10 years ago and 5 years ago. Its way superior.


There are areas of weakness but there was alot more areas of weakness a few years ago.

The_Kew_Tour

Ranked outside the Top 4

Ireland are decent side and more then capable of putting in decent performances against some teams.

We had great season last year but you have to remember all our big games were at home and when we had to play our first decent game away from home this season we were beat out the gate.

We have no chance of winning world cup, im sorry but anyone who thinks we have decent chance is living in dream world really.

We cant really put 2 decent performances together in an neutral venue or away from home what makes us think we going do 3 in row next year.

If we get to semi finals next year that will be excellent.

thehighground

adrian280582 wrote: »

Ireland are decent side and more then capable of putting in decent performances against some teams.

We had great season last year but you have to remember all our big games were at home and when we had to play our first decent game away from home this season we were beat out the gate.

We have no chance of winning world cup, im sorry but anyone who thinks we have decent chance is living in dream world really.

We cant really put 2 decent performances together in an neutral venue or away from home what makes us think we going do 3 in row next year.

If we get to semi finals next year that will be excellent.

At last, some common sense. There are huge celebrations in the Tri nations when one of the big 3 win away from home - all things were forgiven of Peter De Villeriers when they won in NZ last season - and they were the No. 1 team in the world. It also explains how rare back-to-back grand slams are?

We have a good chance of doing reasonably well in the next RWC if we avoid NZ on their home ground.

stephen_n

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

We have good team but I can't see us beating the All Blacks or France in the next 3-4 years. We need to beat at least one of them to get to a Webb Ellis win.

How we finish the Six Nations will show a lot about how we will cope with a big defeat.

Your making probably the most inconsistent and unpredictable team in world rugby the benchmark for what we should achieve? France will probably get beaten in this 6N and we will probably beat them in Dublin next year sousing them seriously undermines your argument!

profitius

stephen_n wrote: »

Your making probably the most inconsistent and unpredictable team in world rugby the benchmark for what we should achieve? France will probably get beaten in this 6N and we will probably beat them in Dublin next year sousing them seriously undermines your argument!

Indeed. This is the same France who got thrashed by NZ in the autumn.

kmart6

How can you list Earls as average but have Fitzgerald,Bowe and Kearney as world class?!

chupacabra

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

kmart6 wrote: »

How can you list Earls as average but have Fitzgerald,Bowe and Kearney as world class?!

Because they are?

kmart6

Bowe yes! Kearney recently not a chance! Fitzgerald is injured but wasn't playing world class before hand!!!

BoarHunter

stephen_n wrote: »

Your making probably the most inconsistent and unpredictable team in world rugby the benchmark for what we should achieve? France will probably get beaten in this 6N and we will probably beat them in Dublin next year sousing them seriously undermines your argument!

inconsistent ? since 1970 :

43 matches between the 2 sides : Ireland 8 wins 3 draws 32 defeats ( WC included )

I find it a rather consistent and to say a win in Dublin for next year is not the norm either.

profitius

BoarHunter wrote: »

inconsistent ? since 1970 :

43 matches between the 2 sides : Ireland 8 wins 3 draws 32 defeats ( WC included )

I find it a rather consistent and to say a win in Dublin for next year is not the norm either.

Ireland couldn't beat Scotland in the 90's and struggled to win a game in the 5 nations. We were that bad. France will be judged against the top teams.

Kev37

kmart6 wrote: »

Bowe yes! Kearney recently not a chance! Fitzgerald is injured but wasn't playing world class before hand!!!

Thats harsh! Kearney's had two poor games and suddenly hes not world class? He was among the best players on the Lions tour and most pundits agree he is one of the best full backs in the world.
Fitzgerald was one of the best wingers in Europe before his injury he certainly has the potential to be world class!!

bamboozle

Ranked outside the Top 4

kmart6 wrote: »

How can you list Earls as average but have Fitzgerald,Bowe and Kearney as world class?!

Fitz, Bowe and Kearney have all been stand out performers in top level games over the last 12-18 months, they have all proved themselves against top class opposition. they have all cemented their place on the international team. Earls still has some way to go yet

5989

Plenty of talent coming through in the backs...

It's pretty null and void to speculate whether player X is good enough for international rugby until they've had a few run out's. Some develop early, some develop late.....

BTW Andrew Burke is 20 now, and will be 22 at the WC, not 24.

stephen_n

BoarHunter wrote: »

inconsistent ? since 1970 :

43 matches between the 2 sides : Ireland 8 wins 3 draws 32 defeats ( WC included )

I find it a rather consistent and to say a win in Dublin for next year is not the norm either.

If your consistency against Ireland won world cups then that would be great, since the inception of the world cup France have been on paper at least the strongest northern hemisphere team and yet they have not won it yet, why is that? because they can be brilliant one game and ****ing truely brutal in the next, the last world cup being a prime example, so i wouldn't rate the French as the team to judge ourselves against!

Amazotheamazing

Ireland will always suffer from having less players than some other countries, we're only ever a few injuries away from a mediocre team, imo. On the other hand, we have plenty of reasons to think we're getting better at ensuring good players stay playing and make the step up to International level.

It's always dangerous to speculate on how good a player will be when he's playing underage, but i think we have a better system for helping players succeed now.

The next biggest issue for the IRFU is to ensure all our top players are getting games. There's only so long that players like McFadden and D. Ryan (and similar players of their calibre) are allowed stay as provincial squad players when our overall depth is so shallow.

Riskymove

Ranked outside the Top 4

Kev37 wrote: »

Thats harsh! Kearney's had two poor games and suddenly hes not world class? He was among the best players on the Lions tour and most pundits agree he is one of the best full backs in the world.
Fitzgerald was one of the best wingers in Europe before his injury he certainly has the potential to be world class!!

first of all, I dont like this Sky sports like "Best X in the World", its childish stuff imo but anyway...

Kearney has been in great form over last campaigns but has had some issues recently, however there is no doubt he is still up to the task

Fitzgerald is one of the most underrated players we have, one only has to look at how difficult we are having it trying to replace him...not only that but I think he'd be even better at fullback...his contribution to the defensive side of things is obvious imo

we might as well all resign ourselves to the fact that we will be losing much more than a centre when BOD stops playing, while we might have other centres who can perform to international level, noone will replace BOD. He is a one in a generation player who we were lucky enough to have as an Irishman.

A lot of us wanted to see Earl's play more regularly and in one position; recent stories have shown there are a lot of confidence issues at play with him which may halt his development to the level that a lot of people think he can reach (McGeechan is not a bad judge of talent I would say), he needs a lot of mentoring I'd say.

Rugby is a game where things can change fast, especially with players at a young age, they can really develop physically and mentally in what seems a short space of time. I think this is why sometimes we dont hear much about someone and then all of sudden they are really standing out

rugby also is not soccer, pace is not as important in most positions, therefore retirement age is much higher, it is not that uncommon to see people in mid-30s playing in international sides.. so i would not rule out people that quickly for the WC next year.

That WC is still over 18 months away, a lifetime in the context of Ireland rugby squads, I dont think you can pick the WC starting XV based on what we know at the moment

toomevara

Ranked outside the Top 4

For the past decade or so we've punched way above our weight in rugby union, and thats down to canny and far sighted management on the part of the IRFU as much as the arrival of the 'golden generation' of players. Our provincial system and careful management of top talent is as much the cause of our continued success as any other factor.

We've created a model system which husbands and manages limited resources massively effectively thus allowing us to sit at rugby's top table. I see no reason why that won't continue. The only thing which concerns me is the parachuting in of foreign players into key squad positions in provincial squads to the possible detriment of the national side, but at this point, I think its being done in a largely sensible manner.

tommy57

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

I agree i think there are to many overseas players creeping into the Irish setup.The IRFU would want to keep that to a minimum so that Irish players get to play.The more Irish playing the better for the Irish team.

Co45

Ranked outside the Top 4

tommy57 wrote: »

I agree i think there are to many overseas players creeping into the Irish setup.The IRFU would want to keep that to a minimum so that Irish players get to play.The more Irish playing the better for the Irish team.

On the flip side you've had McLaughlin saying he learnt greatly from Elsom, Sexton said Contepomi was an excellent mentor and Healy says the arrival of Ollie le Roux helped his scrummaging to no end.

tommy57

Ranked outside the Top 3 - same level as now

I understand where your coming from but its these same players keeping them out of the team.

d'Oracle

tommy57 wrote: »

I understand where your coming from but its these same players keeping them out of the team.

Yeah but they aren't now.

Sexton came in due to an injury but Dr. Phil was already on his way off to chelsea Toulon.

Ollie was never gonna hang around for a long time.

And Rocky was ALWAYS going to head back to Aussie for a shot at the WC.

I think Leinster has been a good example of how foreign Marquee players can be used to the benefit of Irish rugby.

Riskymove

Ranked outside the Top 4

d'Oracle wrote: »

I think Leinster has been a good example of how foreign Marquee players can be used to the benefit of Irish rugby.

but at the same time people like McLoughlin think about quitting cause they cant get gametime, now its O'Brien not guaranteed a start

Leinster also brought in Hines when they lost Rocky, why not an irishman?

Felix Jones has moved from leinster to Munster but couldnt get gametime there either due to foreign players involvement

d'Oracle

Riskymove wrote: »

but at the same time people like McLoughlin think about quitting cause they cant get gametime, now its O'Brien not guaranteed a start

Leinster also brought in Hines when they lost Rocky, why not an irishman?

Felix Jones has moved from leinster to Munster but couldnt get gametime there either due to foreign players involvement

McLoughlin wanted to quit because of his constant injuries, it was nothing to do with foreign players.

Felix Moved because he had a better chance at Munster.
There is only one foreign player out of 3 positions he can play who he would have had to contend with. If you bring that up, there are more Foreign back 3 players at munster.

You are making this up as you go along.

Edit: Hines also provides second row cover and now that O'Brien is in the irish set up they will need cover.
Note also the presence of Hines has not prevented O'Brien getting into the irish setup.