OUTRAGE! British imperialists Drilling For Falkland Oil.

creeper1

[FONT=맑은 고딕]This is an outrage and we Irish shouldn’t be silent on it! We suffered at the hands of these imperialists and now seemingly it’s Argentina’s turn to be raped and pillaged by these criminals.[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC_SBAE5Jyw[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕][/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/07/falkland-islands-oil-britain-argentina[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕][/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]This has got me so angry! These Brits have messed up their economy and spent, borrowed and pissed away billions of $$$$$. They have no manufacturing base and a population of chavs and layabouts. They DESERVE and NEED to suffer for a very long time. But no no no no no. They are going to turn back to their colonial days and STEAL oil that DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM.[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]If they take this oil from the Falklands then they will be getting rich off the backs of the resources of another country. I can just picture those greedy swines at Westminser taking all the tax revenue and rubbing their fat hands with glee. All this oil should rightly go to the Argentinians. Look at how far away the Falkland Islands are away from the UK! They really have no right to that territory. Any Irish working for these oil companies should resign in protest at this disgusting and criminal rape. [/FONT]

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

smellslikeshoes

You must really be grasping at straws if you are using this as a reason to get outraged about the British. Yes the Falklands are much closer to Argentina but they really are a british place inhabited by British people. It's not like there is a native island population being opressed or anything.

StudentDad

The Falklands consider themselves British and that being the case so are the waters around those islands. Where is the problem?

SD

Winty

Hi Creeper 1

Are you OK?
Do you need to sit down and a cup of tea?

Save your "I hate the Brits Crap" for a Celtic supports bar this is "Irish Economy and Budget 2010"

In this area we have intelligent discussion and debate about the issue effecting our country economically not republican rhetoric.

ednwireland

why do you think they invaded to kick thae argentinians off in the 80's. you dont really think that any soverign or thought for the islanders was in their minds, it was all about natural resources, there were plenty of us saying it during the war just the technology wasnt there to extract it.

have a watch of rob newmans history of oil on you tube if you want to see a different point of view on oil (and wars and why the us fights to keep oil priced in dollars

well worth a watch

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5267640865741878159#

his thoughts on why the first world war started makes a hell of a lot more sense than the killing of franz ferdinand (te duke not the band)

colrow

creeper1 wrote: »

[ Any Irish working for these oil companies should resign in protest at this disgusting and criminal rape. [/FONT]

Send your cvs to Kentz lads, they'll be there to be sure

Richard

ednwireland wrote: »

why do you think they invaded to kick thae argentinians off in the 80's. you dont really think that any soverign or thought for the islanders was in their minds

I don't think that the oil was known about then. They kicked the Argentinians out because the Falkland Islanders couldn't do it by themselves and the UK handles their defence.

Liam Byrne

The Yanks are drilling for Iraq oil as we speak, having invaded them twice!

Are you likely to get as annoyed about that, OP ?

Richard

Liam Byrne wrote: »

The Yanks are drilling for Iraq oil as we speak, having invaded them twice!

Are you likely to get as annoyed about that, OP ?

He probably would, although to be fair, it is a different situation as Iraqis aren't American. Let's leave that can of worms closed, though!

simonj

At least the Falklanders might benefit from it.

A bigger scandal is what is happening here with Shell - that needs to be looked at

ei.sdraob

simonj wrote: »

At least the Falklanders might benefit from it.

A bigger scandal is what is happening here with Shell - that needs to be looked at

theres so many "scandals" in this country

that people have become desensitized too it all ...

Fat_Fingers

this topic is irrelevant to discussions in Irish Economy forum

The_Honeybadger

simonj wrote: »

A bigger scandal is what is happening here with Shell - that needs to be looked at

Very true, this is relevant in this forum. I'm no expert on the subject but can anybody explain to me why we simply handed this resource, which belong to the citizens of this country to a private company? Is there some benefit or element of the story that I have missed?

ei.sdraob

mickeyk wrote: »

Very true, this is relevant in this forum. I'm no expert on the subject but can anybody explain to me why we simply handed this resource, which belong to the citizens of this country to a private company? Is there some benefit or element of the story that I have missed?

because our government was not capable of organizing a quango to explore and drill for resources

The_Honeybadger

ei.sdraob wrote: »

because our government was not capable of organizing a quango to explore and drill for resources

Surely it can't be that simple, they were able to set up a quango for everything else. Seems absolutely outrageous to just hand over such a valuable natural resource because it would be too much trouble to bring it ashore ourselves. Why set up a new quango anyway, surely bord gais could have hired in the expertise needed.

ei.sdraob

mickeyk wrote: »

Surely it can't be that simple, they were able to set up a quango for everything else. Seems absolutely outrageous to just hand over such a valuable natural resource because it would be too much trouble to bring it ashore ourselves. Why set up a new quango anyway, surely bord gais could have hired in the expertise needed.

you see

you are thinking logically and rationally

as displayed by our fine minister for enterprise this week, the people in charge are not capable of thinking and acting rationally

hence the resource ends-up in hands of private company who have the resources and were willing to take a multi-million euro risk in exploring and developing this resource, mind you the corporation tax on petroleum products is close to 30% so not all is lost

Scofflaw

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you see

you are thinking logically and rationally

as displayed by our fine minister for enterprise this week, the people in charge are not capable of thinking and acting rationally

hence the resource ends-up in hands of private company who have the resources and were willing to take a multi-million euro risk in exploring and developing this resource, mind you the corporation tax on petroleum products is close to 30% so not all is lost

That's about the size of it. 177 wells have been drilled in the Irish offshore over the last couple of decades, and wells in the deep Celtic Sea region cost $80-100 million a pop (source for both figures). Up to $250m a year has been invested in the Irish offshore by the various oil majors and minors, and so far there's been nothing to show for it. We have a favourable tax regime of 25% (rising to 40% on more productive finds) because otherwise nobody will bother drilling in our waters.

As to doing it ourselves - the Norwegians started their homegrown oil industry by drilling from modified barges in shallow and fairly calm seas known to have the same geology as the already-producing UK sector of the North Sea. The Irish Atlantic shelf, on the other hand, is at the deepest-water limits of drilling technology in some of the roughest seas in the world, on unknown geology that has never produced a commercial oil find - it's not a playground for the Irish civil service to waste money and lives.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Red_Marauder

creeper1 wrote: »

[FONT=맑은 고딕]This is an outrage and we Irish shouldn’t be silent on it! We suffered at the hands of these imperialists and now seemingly it’s Argentina’s turn to be raped and pillaged by these criminals.[/FONT]

What are you talking about Argentina for? Do you know the first thing about The Falklands? It is not in Argentina, the people are not decended from the Argentines, and furthermore, they clearly don't want any association with Argentina.

Argentina simply does not come into it.

The islands have a population about half the size of Mallow. They cannot dig for their own oil if that issue were to arise.

Ste.phen

I assumed that the OP wasn't being serious and was either being sarcastic or ironic, but it's hard to know really

mike65

The OP does appear to have issues with the UK as judged by some previous posts (he also could be a bit of an excitable nutter but thats for others to pass judgment on).

Pappy o' daniel

I wouldn't care if the British did a series of nuclear tests on the Falklands.

Jip

mickeyk wrote: »

Surely it can't be that simple, they were able to set up a quango for everything else. Seems absolutely outrageous to just hand over such a valuable natural resource because it would be too much trouble to bring it ashore ourselves. Why set up a new quango anyway, surely bord gais could have hired in the expertise needed.

What if the state paid millions to drill for oil or gas and found nothing ? Either way someone is going to call either outcome a scandal.

My understanding, and I'm open for correction, is that when the rights were sold there was no guarantee that there was anything to be found, Shell were taking a risk of drilling and finding nothing.
But as I said, I came into this late but haven't seen anything that says otherwise, everthing I've seen about it is biased one way or the other.


Edit, must read subsequent posts, i.e. ei.sdraob and Scofflaws before getting over excited and basically repeating what they said !

LordSutch

creeper1 wrote: »

[FONT=맑은 고딕]This is an outrage and we Irish shouldn’t be silent on it! We suffered at the hands of these imperialists and now seemingly it’s Argentina’s turn to be raped and pillaged by these criminals.[/FONT]

Amazing stuff, sounds like something taken from An Phoblacht, circa early 80's . . . :rolleyes:

Overheal

Reminds me of Russia selling Alaska to the United States - Man, they must of been kicking themselves during the Gold Rush and the Cold War...

But thats the butt of it. The Irish Government didnt have the money to burn in trying to find these projected deposits of Natural Gas. On the other hand, Shell does, and I can wager blindly make a many fold over larger GDP than the whole of Ireland, and their entire business is drilling, without having to worry about Public Sector Wages, The Dole, Healthcare, Taxing Cigarettes, Harney's grocery bill, etc. etc.

edit: $458b revenue compared to $174b per year

Red_Marauder

Overheal wrote: »

Shell does, and I can wager blindly make a many fold over larger GDP than the whole of Ireland

Shell do not "make" more than our GDP if these are the reference marks you want to use.

We have a GDP of about $174 billion. In 2008 Shell made a profit of about $25 billion.

Scofflaw

Red_Marauder wrote: »

Shell do not "make" more than our GDP if these are the reference marks you want to use.

We have a GDP of about $174 billion. In 2008 Shell made a profit of about $25 billion.

Is GDP "profit" or "turnover"? I would have said turnover, insofar as either applies.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Overheal

Im a terrible economist.

But yeah, its what shell does. And its far less of a risk for them than it is for ROI.

creeper1

Pappy o' daniel wrote: »

I wouldn't care if the British did a series of nuclear tests on the Falklands.

[FONT=맑은 고딕]What a great attitude you guys have huh? Let me give you a quick geography lesson. The UK is in the Northern Hemisphere whereas the Malvinas (falklands) are in the Southern Hemisphere. It doesn’t take a genius to know who has a stronger territorial claim. In short the UK DOES NOT DESERVE TO HAVE ONE DROP OF THAT OIL. [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]Small countries must stick up for one another. Whether it be Tibet occupied by China or Northern Ireland occupied by the British we must support one another. It’s not OK for a larger country to invade another one, plant it’s people there and then call it part of it’s territory. By that logic the north of Ireland would indeed be British. [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]Consider this (ficticious) scenario for a moment. A huge oil find is discovered in the waters around County Derry. It’s huge! It’s billions of barrels worth and would be enough to allow a tax take for Ireland to pay off all her debts and even have a surplus! Are you going to tell me “well that’s part of UK territory”, “this has nothing to do with the republic of Ireland” and “the people there are British”?[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]No didn’t think so. [/FONT]

lugha

creeper1 wrote: »

Consider this (ficticious) scenario for a moment. A huge oil find is discovered in the waters around County Derry. It’s huge! It’s billions of barrels worth and would be enough to allow a tax take for Ireland to pay off all her debts and even have a surplus! Are you going to tell me “well that’s part of UK territory”, “this has nothing to do with the republic of Ireland” and “the people there are British”?

Alas, it would be part of UK territory, and alas again, it would have nothing to do with the republic of Ireland (though we might indirectly benefit). Not quite true to say the people there are British (they are if they want to be), but that don't put no fuel in my motor.
What I tell you (or you tell me) wouldn't count for diddley.

Scofflaw

creeper1 wrote: »

[FONT=맑은 고딕]What a great attitude you guys have huh? Let me give you a quick geography lesson. The UK is in the Northern Hemisphere whereas the Malvinas (falklands) are in the Southern Hemisphere. It doesn’t take a genius to know who has a stronger territorial claim. In short the UK DOES NOT DESERVE TO HAVE ONE DROP OF THAT OIL. [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]Small countries must stick up for one another. Whether it be Tibet occupied by China or Northern Ireland occupied by the British we must support one another. It’s not OK for a larger country to invade another one, plant it’s people there and then call it part of it’s territory. By that logic the north of Ireland would indeed be British. [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]Consider this (ficticious) scenario for a moment. A huge oil find is discovered in the waters around County Derry. It’s huge! It’s billions of barrels worth and would be enough to allow a tax take for Ireland to pay off all her debts and even have a surplus! Are you going to tell me “well that’s part of UK territory”, “this has nothing to do with the republic of Ireland” and “the people there are British”?[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]No didn’t think so. [/FONT]

The difference would be that the Falkland Islands were uninhabited when discovered by Europeans. The French established the first colony, the British the second - the French one was then taken over by the Spanish, who ran it from Buenos Aires, which is where the Argentine claim distantly derives from. After a few more switches of governorship, the Spanish abandoned the islands in 1811. In 1826, a man called Luis Vernet applied for permission to establish a settlement on the islands under the joint control of the British and the "United Provinces of the River Plate" (later Argentina). The latter, in 1829, unilaterally declared sovereignty over the islands to the exclusion of the British - who naturally responded by reasserting their own sole sovereignty. The British went on to develop the islands

In other words, you're really saying that even though the British actually colonised these uninhabited islands before the Spanish and developed them, the current Argentine government should have a stronger claim by virtue of historical Spanish imperialism, followed by a bit of unilateral imperialism on the part of Argentina's predecessor.

It's also worth pointing out that Argentina is hardly a "small country" - they are, in fact, regional number 2 military power.

It is just possible that you may be using a double standard.

amused,
Scofflaw

Overheal

creeper1 wrote: »

What a great attitude you guys have huh? Let me give you a quick geography lesson. The UK is in the Northern Hemisphere whereas the Malvinas (falklands) are in the Southern Hemisphere. It doesn’t take a genius to know who has a stronger territorial claim. In short the UK DOES NOT DESERVE TO HAVE ONE DROP OF THAT OIL.

Okay genius: does that mean they dont have rights to Oil found in the North Sea because, Technically, it falls in the Eastern Hemisphere?

Small countries must stick up for one another. Whether it be Tibet occupied by China or Northern Ireland occupied by the British we must support one another. It’s not OK for a larger country to invade another one, plant it’s people there and then call it part of it’s territory. By that logic the north of Ireland would indeed be British.

Pardon my Yankee Ignorance young Republican: But isn't Northern Ireland part of the UK and by all extension, quite British?

Consider this (ficticious) scenario for a moment. A huge oil find is discovered in the waters around County Derry. It’s huge! It’s billions of barrels worth and would be enough to allow a tax take for Ireland to pay off all her debts and even have a surplus! Are you going to tell me “well that’s part of UK territory”, “this has nothing to do with the republic of Ireland” and “the people there are British”?

You seem really hung up on this They're British thing, don't you.

I suppose it would depend, were these the Territorial Waters of the UK? I'm sure if you bothered to check, the Terriorial Waters are going to be well-defined under International law. So the question to your hypothesis is simply does it fall in their waters or doesnt it? Is it a split? What ratio is the split?

A more accurate similie would be to find a large Natural Gas deposit off the coasts of Hawaii, only to have it claimed by those filthy US Chinko Pinko Commy Yank Bastards. But oh snap. Hawaii is kind of like a colony, innit. Only it isnt called a colony. Semantics. Did you know that Hawaii already has Universal Healtcare and has done for the last 40 years? Madness. We should overthrow them. If only they didnt have a Spy in the White House.

donkey balls

Winty wrote: »

Hi Creeper 1

Are you OK?
Do you need to sit down and a cup of tea?

Save your "I hate the Brits Crap" for a Celtic supports bar this is "Irish Economy and Budget 2010"

In this area we have intelligent discussion and debate about the issue effecting our country economically not republican rhetoric.

the british tax payer since 1982 has paid for the defence of the falklands(isla malvinas) islands costing millions a year having RAF/Navy people based there.
and more than likely will cost millions a year into the future.
what they might get from drilling for oil might just break
even for the cost of the islands defence.
oh and winty im a celtic supporter please dont tar us all with the same brush:)

ballsymchugh

ei.sdraob wrote: »

because our government was not capable of organizing a quango to explore and drill for resources

and ray burke was the guy to ask in those days!!

Winty

Sorry to Donkey Balls, I was rude and take it back.

Martin 2

The last thing Mother Earth needs is another oil well so I won't be too disappointed if their exploration fails.

sparkling sea

Tis sad to see the anti British sentiment is alive and well with the chip on the shoulder brigade or could I be wrong could the motavation behind this be a discussion of the modernity verus dependency theory - no.

If we want to be outraged about the pillaging of natural resources, we need to look at our own country before we criticise others including Britian and NI.
Don't think a country like the Philippines are happy that we pillage their nurses, despite the fact that they are a very poor country and it was very costly for them to train these nurses.

Jip

sparkling sea wrote: »

Don't think a country like the Philippines are happy that we pillage their nurses, despite the fact that they are a very poor country and it was very costly for them to train these nurses.

Do you realise how many Irish trained nurses go to the UK to work ?

walshb

StudentDad wrote: »

The Falklands consider themselves British and that being the case so are the waters around those islands. Where is the problem?

SD

The Falklands will never ever be British, just like the North of Ireland will never ever be British, just like Taiwan will never be Taiwanese, or "American."

sparkling sea

Jip wrote: »

Do you realise how many Irish trained nurses go to the UK to work ?

You are hardly comparing the two, could you be less unaware

Fr Tod Umptious

All this reminds me of that Wolf Tones song 'Rock On Rockall'

The chorus goes

'Oh rock on Rockall you'll never fall
For Britains greedy hands
Oh you'll meet the same resistance
Like you did in many land'

In places like Irish pubs in America you see young easily influenced types jumping up and down raising fists and singing this chorus with gusto, putting 110% into it

What they are really saying is

'hey Brits, you may have colonized half the world, but there is a piece of rock somewhere above Ireland (I could not pick it on the map) and I think we Irish own it, and there is no way you will get your hands on it'

Jip

sparkling sea wrote: »

You are hardly comparing the two, could you be less unaware

Spell it out for me so.

sparkling sea

creeper1 wrote: »

[FONT=맑은 고딕][FONT=맑은 고딕]Consider this (ficticious) scenario for a moment. A huge oil find is discovered in the waters around County Derry. It’s huge! It’s billions of barrels worth and would be enough to allow a tax take for Ireland to pay off all her debts and even have a surplus! Are you going to tell me “well that’s part of UK territory”, “this has nothing to do with the republic of Ireland” and “the people there are British”?[/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕] [/FONT]
[FONT=맑은 고딕]No didn’t think so. [/FONT]

It has nothing to do with the Republic of Ireland - it would be a matter for the people of NI and by extension Britain - as long as the majority of people of NI want to be part of Britain.

I don't see NI as part of my country the Republic of Ireland, so why would I feel that I would be entitled be the benefits from the resources of another country.
I would not wish NI to part of my country and while I acknowledge that many people do not feel the same as me, the tide is turning. I know many people who feel exactly the same as me and are extremely protective of their country and do no want its make up to be changed in any way. Nor would they feel entitled to claim the resources of NI

sparkling sea

Jip wrote: »

Spell it out for me so.

Try Tovey and Share a Sociology of Contemporary Ireland.

Philippines a 3rd would country until 2006 - 2nd world country now. Its is and has been hugely in need of retaining its natural resources especially its educated people.

Ireland 1st world country ( yes even now we are still at the upper end of the modernization scale) - over supply of educated human resources.

Nurses going to English speaking England - what a culture shock it must be to get on a plane and travel for a whole hour to a completely different society, will it ever be possible to get home.

Yes we were in a similiar position to the Philippines many years ago and alot of our resources went to the UK, America and Austrialia.

Ireland was well aware of the crisis in the Phillippines and despite this and our own history, during and up until the delcine in the boom, the Irish government activitely pillaged the human resources of the Philippines

Jip

Your views are fairly extreme, imo.

sparkling sea

Jip wrote: »

Your views are fairly extreme, imo.

Do you think so, I am assuming you mean with regard to NI, its just my opinion, well no, there are loads of people who feel the same as me - fortunately we don't ram it down peoples throats as everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
I would always willing support the majority decision but I have been to NI many times and I think the people are completely different, their experiences (unfortunately for them) are completely different to the people the Republic and to be honest I find it almost impossible to understand what they are saying, very Scottish sounding to me.

With regard to pillaging resources, its complete accepted that this is an ongoing practice by 1st world countries, even ones who were subject to the same practices themselves in the past

Jip

sparkling sea wrote: »

and I think the people are completely different, their experiences (unfortunately for them) are completely different to the people the Republic and to be honest I find it almost impossible to understand what they are saying, very Scottish sounding to me.

That's gas, what has someones accent got to do with anything ?

sparkling sea

Jip wrote: »

That's gas, what has someones accent got to do with anything ?

Its just identity and I suppose I don't feel I can identify with the political adversity or the people of Northern Ireland. Although there accent hasn't really much to do with why I see Northern Ireland as a separate country, the reason for that is purely because it is a separate country. I don't understand why a minority of people who are not happy being from the Republic think its OK to pretend they represent the silent majority or that everyone feels the same as they do.

I am proud of my country even if its up the creek at the moment - and I don't need anywhere else to be added to it, to make me feel that it is a complete country. I think it is complete as it is.

Fr Tod Umptious

sparkling sea wrote: »

Its just identity and I suppose I don't feel I can identify with the political adversity or the people of Northern Ireland. Although there accent hasn't really much to do with why I see Northern Ireland as a separate country, the reason for that is purely because it is a separate country. I don't understand why a minority of people who are not happy being from the Republic think its OK to pretend they represent the silent majority or that everyone feels the same as they do.

I am proud of my country even if its up the creek at the moment - and I don't need anywhere else to be added to it, to make me feel that it is a complete country. I think it is complete as it is.

Great post, well said

StudentDad

walshb wrote: »

The Falklands will never ever be British, just like the North of Ireland will never ever be British, just like Taiwan will never be Taiwanese, or "American."

Oh good grief. The people living there consider themselves British!
They want nothing to do with Argentina and they have been living there for centuries. The place is British!

SD

hmmm

StudentDad wrote: »

Oh good grief. The people living there consider themselves British!
They want nothing to do with Argentina and they have been living there for centuries. The place is British!

The OP seems to think that nationality is defined by territorial borders. In that case we'd have a bunch of island nations and one big one called Eurosiafrica.