The Tescoisation of Ireland?

miec

Hi I just read this article on the Irish times with regards to suppliers having to pay exhorbitant amounts to Tesco's for product placement on their shelves. I think they are holding many Irish suppliers to ransom which will kill of more jobs and transfer money out of the Irish economy into other economies but equally it means that the consumer has less choice because shelf space goes to the highest bidder. What does everyone else think? To be honest I am pretty anti-tesco's and avoid shopping there because they try to give an Irish friendly face but the reality is very different when you read these kind of stories.

hiorta

They're at the very same game in Scotland, with some strange planning consents being granted in the face of much local hostility.

At the same time, they and others, try to buy up sites that just seem to be of a size and location that competritors like Lidl and Aldi seem to prefer.

I went off them when Mrs Thatcher and her wee Jewish pal, the Tesco heiress, were rumbled at selling modernised houses in London to bolster Conservative vote in the area

The heiress fled to Israel seemingly rather than face triaL

ei.sdraob

miec wrote: »

To be honest I am pretty anti-tesco's and avoid shopping there because they try to give an Irish friendly face but the reality is very different when you read these kind of stories.

they do export 690 million euro worth of Irish products to their shops outside of Ireland

keep that in mind...

The_Honeybadger

miec wrote: »

Hi I just read this article on the Irish times with regards to suppliers having to pay exhorbitant amounts to Tesco's for product placement on their shelves. I think they are holding many Irish suppliers to ransom which will kill of more jobs and transfer money out of the Irish economy into other economies but equally it means that the consumer has less choice because shelf space goes to the highest bidder. What does everyone else think? To be honest I am pretty anti-tesco's and avoid shopping there because they try to give an Irish friendly face but the reality is very different when you read these kind of stories.

I generally avoid the place too if I can, try to shop for meat in the butchers and veg in the local Fruit & Veg shop and try to buy Irish if I can. Anybody interested in this subject should read tescopoly by Andrew Simms (I think), it takes a look at the whole Tesco model and the impact Tesco has had on towns and local economies in the UK, it also examines Walmart in the US and similar chains in europe. It is a totally one sided argument but an interesting read none the less.

Jip

They're all at it though, it's nothing specific to Tesco but it seems that the media are more focussed on Tesco for some reason, maybe because they're British ? There was a leaked memo published some months back from Superquinn which was basically a price list from them to their suppliers on a variety of issues, but there wasn't as much made of it.

If you were to avoid places that are involved in this nasty practice I'm afraid you'd be limited to where you can actually shop.

Sesshoumaru

I shop in Aldi now as their prices seem to be more consistent. With Tesco the prices seem to be constantly going up and down.

bamboozle

mickeyk wrote: »

I generally avoid the place too if I can, try to shop for meat in the butchers and veg in the local Fruit & Veg shop and try to buy Irish if I can. Anybody interested in this subject should read tescopoly by Andrew Simms (I think), it takes a look at the whole Tesco model and the impact Tesco has had on towns and local economies in the UK, it also examines Walmart in the US and similar chains in europe. It is a totally one sided argument but an interesting read none the less.

like yourself i try to do all my shopping at local butchers and fruit & veg shop, i havent set foot in tesco since a couple of years ago a friend told me of his company which had 10 out of 12 products it sold there replaced with cheaper imported goods.

Saadyst

If it weren't for the foreign supermarkets here, I'd fear the consumers here would still be getting ripped off very badly.

Whatever system Tesco has in play obviously works anyway. Competitive bidding is just that: competition.

thebman

Saadyst wrote: »

If it weren't for the foreign supermarkets here, I'd fear the consumers here would still be getting ripped off very badly.

Whatever system Tesco has in play obviously works anyway. Competitive bidding is just that: competition.

lets not beat around the bush, Tesco take the p*** in a number of ways but so do the other supermarkets.

None of them really give a crap about Irish goods and will charge whatever they think they can for a company to put its goods on their shelves.

The_Honeybadger

thebman wrote: »

lets not beat around the bush, Tesco take the p*** in a number of ways but so do the other supermarkets.

None of them really give a crap about Irish goods and will charge whatever they think they can for a company to put its goods on their shelves.

Absolutely, Tesco are higlighted more than others for whatever reason but they all do it. TBH I doubt most customers care what they do as long as their shopping bill is lower. It is down to personal choice whether you shop there, I have no issue with people who want cheap food and won't be picketing their head office or anything, but I choose to shop elsewhere. I actually find there to be some great bargains in butchers and local stores if you take the time to look, and it really isn't that much more expensive if you are buying fresh unprocessed type food. Tinned and packaged foods will always be cheaper in Tesco.

Macha

thebman wrote: »

lets not beat around the bush, Tesco take the p*** in a number of ways but so do the other supermarkets.

As I stated in another thread, 70-80% of retail food bought in the UK and Ireland is bought in supermarkets. In the 1960s, that number was closer to 30%.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. Buy everything in the supermarket? They'll have all the market share, dominate and the local grocery/butcher/bakery will close down.

The_Honeybadger

taconnol wrote: »

As I stated in another thread, 70-80% of retail food bought in the UK and Ireland is bought in supermarkets. In the 1960s, that number was closer to 30%.

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. Buy everything in the supermarket? They'll have all the market share, dominate and the local grocery/butcher/bakery will close down.

Maybe its all in my head, but I find the quality available in the local butcher / veg / baker to be far superior. I think there will always be a place for these stores as long as they provide reasonably priced goods and add the personal touch that you just cannot get in the multiples. They need to up their game (many have already) and emphasise their superior quality and customer service. The ones not equipped or willing to do this will undoubtedly close.

Tipp Man

ei.sdraob wrote: »

they do export 690 million euro worth of Irish products to their shops outside of Ireland

keep that in mind...

Ei where did you get that number from?? (not doubting you just curious)

ei.sdraob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Ei where did you get that number from?? (not doubting you just curious)

label on the Tesco Milk bottle when eating breakfast which prompted me to google some more now...



edit/correction: its 655 million sorry, which still sizable amount of exports, which is better than nothing ...


anyways for all the moaning about Tesco they are a major employer and do benefit the economy, no wonder this country is going down the drain the disdain for profitable businesses and employers in this country is absurd as illustrated in this thread and by our minister recently

*The overall economy-wide output impact of the Tesco Group on the Irish economy is estimated at €2.5 billion.

*In 2006 Tesco Ireland facilitated €654.8 million worth of exports per annum of Irish-origin food and other products into the Tesco Group internationally, an increase of 86.4% in five years.

*During 2006, the value of exports facilitated by Tesco Ireland was above the total exports of Irish food and drink to France (Ireland's 2nd largest market for such exports), Germany, United States and others.

* During 2006, Tesco Ireland's domestic expenditure was €1.28 billion on Irish-produced goods and services, including expenditures on food and other products for re-sale, on wages and salaries, on business inputs and on capital investment.

* Overall domestic expenditures expanded by almost 29% between 2004 and 2006, indicating a substantial increase in Tesco Ireland's direct expenditure impact on the Irish economy.

* Combining total domestic expenditures of Tesco Ireland on Irish produced goods and services with the demand for Irish product in the form of exports to the wider Tesco Group internationally indicates that the total demand for Irish-origin food and other products supported by Tesco Group amounted to €1.94 billion in 2006.

* Tesco facilitates exports by small, medium and large Irish companies including Kerry Foods, Diageo, Lir Chocolates, Barry's Tea, Bewleys, Kepak, Kerrygold, Boyne Valley Group and others.

* Tesco has increased its employees by 4,659 employees since 1998, a 55.6% increase to 13,044. This compares with a 17.4% increase in employment across all internationally owned industry in Ireland over the same period.

* Tesco Ireland supports another almost 10,000 jobs in supplier firms dealing directly with its 96 Irish stores in 25 counties. Another 4,000 plus jobs are supported directly by exports of Irish products.

* Between direct and indirect employment, Tesco supports almost 27,000 jobs in Irish businesses.

* Tesco Ireland's annual exchequer tax contribution is €135.5 million, up 17.2% in two years.

* Tesco Ireland has worked with suppliers to commence production here of previously imported produce like peppers and onions.

* Tesco's wage bill in Ireland is €227.5 million, up almost 70% since 2002.

source


yes they are a major company/corporation, does that make them "evil" somehow?, they do employ people and contribute to economy, something that we need more of nowadays

...

The_Honeybadger

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyways for all the moaning about Tesco they are a major employer and do benefit the economy, no wonder this country is going down the drain the disdain for profitable businesses and employers in this country is absurd as illustrated in this thread and by our minister recently




source


yes they are a major company/corporation, does that make them "evil" somehow?, they do employ people and contribute to economy, something that we need more of nowadays

...

There is nothing wrong with being a big company, I have worked for big companies in the past and was treated very well.

On the jobs front I'm not so sure, they do employ many people but how many small shops have they put out of business in doing so, alot of their jobs were created at the expense of jobs elsewhere in smaller operations, not saying this is right or wrong, it is a competitive business after all, just saying alot of their employment is not incremental to the country due to their prescence here.

ei.sdraob

mickeyk wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with being a big company, I have worked for big companies in the past and was treated very well.

On the jobs front I'm not so sure, they do employ many people but how many small shops have they put out of business in doing so, alot of their jobs were created at the expense of jobs elsewhere in smaller operations, not saying this is right or wrong, it is a competitive business after all, just saying alot of their employment is not incremental to the country due to their prescence here.

i dunno


There are no official stats available (maybe retailer employment figures from CSO?) to draw any conclusion in either direction

Tesco are not the only large supermarket, if anything Aldi/Lidl seem to have had a larger impact and most of their food doesnt seem to be local or Irish, we now have healthy competition and this has affected rip off supermarkets like Dunnes

Looking around locally here in Galway I cant think of many small shops that closed, if anything theres more of them now and butchers etc, as i said before i have a relative who has a medium supermarket (16 people employed) and is doing quite well competing



anyways people have problems with large supermarkets but forget one point, as a consumer you have a huge say in how these supermarkets are shaped
every-time you buy something you are voting with your wallet

if you care about organic, green, local etc food then buy it

there was mentioned of wallmart earlier in thread but now they are one of the bigger organic food retailers now that their customers have voted with their wallets

me you everyone can shape the supermarkets and how they impact economy

anyways most of this was discussed in detail in recent thread (one about farmers and milk) dont want to repeat myself

The_Honeybadger

I'm not just talking about food stores, Tesco now sell Books, Stationary, Electrical Equipment, Phones, Gifts and anything else you can think of. I know one electrical shop owner personally that closed his door due to Tesco selling similar products. There are no stats as you quite rightly point out but I would guess many small businesses have closed due to the enormous economies of scale available to the multiples. Like I said I'm not saying this is right or wrong but it is happening. Are the largely minimum wage (or just above) jobs that Tesco provide better than the jobs available in the small outlets on the main street? Anybody's guess really but I suspect the thousands of jobs they provide are not all net jobs for the economy.

ei.sdraob

mickeyk wrote: »

I'm not just talking about food stores, Tesco now sell Books, Stationary, Electrical Equipment, Phones, Gifts and anything else you can think of. I know one electrical shop owner personally that closed his door due to Tesco selling similar products. There are no stats as you quite rightly point out but I would guess many small businesses have closed due to the enormous economies of scale available to the multiples. Like I said I'm not saying this is right or wrong but it is happening. Are the largely minimum wage (or just above) jobs that Tesco provide better than the jobs available in the small outlets on the main street? Anybody's guess really but I suspect the thousands of jobs they provide are not all net jobs for the economy.

i would agree with you but without any facts for (well theres the tesco figures posted earlier) or against we only have anecdotal evidence to use

all good questions anyways


from the figures provided by Tesco in and absence of figures otherwise i would have to say Tesco is a good thing for Irish economy

from my (personal) experience of Tesco in Galway and Dublin they have been of positive for economy, consumers and employment,

with butchers, fruit and fish, gift etc shops springing up next to them here in Galway i dont see how the smaller retailers are affected negatively

if anything without a large supermarket to draw people in many small shops in shopping centers might find themselves out of business...



as for stationary, books, electrics, phones, gifts etc:
a. most of these products are made in China so not exactly local products
b. online retailers like Amazon, Ebay and Komplett are much more "disruptive"

you might be thinking of Walmartization but we dont have anything resembling Walmart here in Ireland for a variety of reasons

thebman

I think what is actually happening is Tesco is branching out into the mainstream areas of electronics etc... which is the main revenue source for the specialist stores.

They offer other specialised products they don't make much money off because they are specialist stores.

However more and more people who want specialised products are buying online and with mainstream business in Tesco, it leaves no market for the local store.

Of course with veg that isn't possible but I don't see Tesco killing off all that market as their veg and fresh food is crap. Local business needs to get itself out there better to survive if they are doing things better than Tesco though.

Rulmeq

ei.sdraob wrote: »

they do export 690 million euro worth of Irish products to their shops outside of Ireland

keep that in mind...

The problem with that figure is that "Irish" to them includes Northern Ireland, and not wanting to insult anyone but that's not really much use to the Irish economy.

ei.sdraob

Rulmeq wrote: »

The problem with that figure is that "Irish" to them includes Northern Ireland, and not wanting to insult anyone but that's not really much use to the Irish economy.

what do you base this claim on? any figures or references??

bamboozle

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what do you base this claim on? any figures or references??

just a side note to this, i recently was told that the guarenteed irish symbol includes produce from Northern Ireland...

ei.sdraob

bamboozle wrote: »

just a side note to this, i recently was told that the guarenteed irish symbol includes produce from Northern Ireland...

what does any of this have to do with Guaranteed Irish?

im talking about figures (linked earlier) produced by Tesco Ireland, Northern Ireland and its shops would fall under Tesco UK branch

Jip

mickeyk wrote: »

Are the largely minimum wage (or just above) jobs that Tesco provide better than the jobs available in the small outlets on the main street?

This was debated elsewhere before, why are you assuming that Tesco staff are paid the minimum, or slightly above minimum, wage, simply because it's a supermarket ?

Rulmeq wrote: »

The problem with that figure is that "Irish" to them includes Northern Ireland, and not wanting to insult anyone but that's not really much use to the Irish economy.

And again, why do you make that claim ? Tesco Ireland is a separate entity than Tesco UK and operates as such. At management level some of the roles cross over into each other but they operate as completely separate companies.

The_Honeybadger

thebman wrote: »

I think what is actually happening is Tesco is branching out into the mainstream areas of electronics etc... which is the main revenue source for the specialist stores.

They offer other specialised products they don't make much money off because they are specialist stores.

However more and more people who want specialised products are buying online and with mainstream business in Tesco, it leaves no market for the local store.

Of course with veg that isn't possible but I don't see Tesco killing off all that market as their veg and fresh food is crap. Local business needs to get itself out there better to survive if they are doing things better than Tesco though.

That is a fair asessment. In my view it is a pity that the specialist store will be forced to close as i am a big fan of the personal touch that they offer, and it is nice to deal with somebody who has an interest in what they are selling, ask a shop assistant in Tesco about the TV they are selling and all you'll get is a "huh" not sure I'll have to get a manager. Online shopping does have alot to do with it also, you can buy literally any specialised product and have it in 2-3 days delivered to your door, hard to compete with when most people now have internet access.

bamboozle

ei.sdraob wrote: »

what does any of this have to do with Guaranteed Irish?

im talking about figures (linked earlier) produced by Tesco Ireland, Northern Ireland and its shops would fall under Tesco UK branch

i was responding to message no. 20 which referred to Irish products including produce from Northern Ireland.

ei.sdraob

bamboozle wrote: »

i was responding to message no. 20 which referred to Irish products including produce from Northern Ireland.

see post 14

RobAMerc

I think a bigger issue with Tesco is that they are building larger and larger stores with free parking on the outskirts of towns while town councils penalise shoppers from entering our town centres with ridiculous parking charges and punitive speed limtis.
This effectively is causing the doughnutization of our towns - there is nothing to go into the centre for!

Our towns all have a litany of empty commercial units, small shop owners are left with no one to sell to, and to top it all off these super stores are normally built on the ring road - leaving it stopped with traffic. In one case I see the town is talking about having to build a by-pass to by-pass the old by-pass !

I watched a program on this on the BBC 10 years ago and couldn't believe the town councils could be so stupid.

We learn nothing in this country till we make the same mistakes ourselves I'm afriad.

bamboozle

ei.sdraob wrote: »

see post 14

That bears no relevence to my post, i merely stated that the guarenteed irish symbol includes produce from northern Ireland. I didnt say that Tesco included Northern Irish produce in the figure they derived for sales of Irish produce.

The_Honeybadger

Jip wrote: »

This was debated elsewhere before, why are you assuming that Tesco staff are paid the minimum, or slightly above minimum, wage, simply because it's a supermarket ?

Jip I packed many many shelves while I was trying to get through college, in both SV and Dunnes. Management make a good living but those on the shop floor are not that well paid in my experience, perhaps that has changed since I worked there. It is largely these type of jobs that would have been lost in smaller outlets that is why I made that comparison. I am sure senior management in Tesco earn excellent money but that caliber of person is unlikely to be found selling Fruit and Veg off a stall, or selling phones in a main street outlet.

ei.sdraob

RobAMerc wrote: »

I think a bigger issue with Tesco is that they are building larger and larger stores with free parking on the outskirts of towns while town councils penalise shoppers from entering our town centres with ridiculous parking charges and punitive speed limtis.
This effectively is causing the doughnutization of our towns - there is nothing to go into the centre for!

Our towns all have a litany of empty commercial units, small shop owners are left with no one to sell to, and to top it all off these super stores are normally built on the ring road - leaving it stopped with traffic. In one case I see the town is talking about having to build a by-pass to by-pass the old by-pass !

I watched a program on this on the BBC 10 years ago and couldn't believe the town councils could be so stupid.

We learn nothing in this country till we make the same mistakes ourselves I'm afriad.

yep things like free park and ride would certainly help bring in shoppers

hell im sure the shops in city center would like to subsidiess such schemes

edit: you can be really evil and subject people to ads for your products on the way into center

miec

Ultimately, you get what you pay for. Buy everything in the supermarket? They'll have all the market share, dominate and the local grocery/butcher/bakery will close down.

I agree, it is up to us as consumers to support smaller businesses. Like many others here I buy my meat and veg from butchers/greengrocers and the rest of my stuff in Aldi/Lidl or Dunnes or a local shop. I have since learned that Dunnes charge their suppliers even more (it was on Today FM on the last word) so it may be that Tesco's is getting all the rap for this but my beef with them is that they make out they are Irish friendly, I find that Lidl and Aldi do not make such claims, you know the stuff is imported elsewhere, this tends to get hidden in Tesco's and other supermarkets, that is what annoys me the most, in the same way that labelling is giving the image of being one thing (eg: low fat or green or healthy) when in reality it is another thing.

Already there are towns and villages in Ireland whose centres are dying a slow death because of the rise of retail parks and shopping centres, which results in a loss of community. Also if you don't have a car to get to these places your fecked.