Cheers Boards Mod's

items

Had a quick scan at emails, just noticed the arrival of Plumbing and Heating section, nice one.

Will start off by saying,

Tanks store cold water..

Cylinders store hot water..

Sinks are for washing dishes..

Basins can be found in bathrooms / en suites..



Problems with boilers, if you know what kind of boiler you have its best to mention either Gas or Oil, same goes for Solid Fuel (Range) or Back Boiler.

Problems with heating, if you know what kind of system you have again best mention, either modern sealed (expansion vessel) or traditional open vented (F&E small heating tank in attic).

Plumbing problems, best mention what kind of system you have either gravity or pressurized / part pressurized.

Showers can be standard manual / thermo mixer or electric.

Their is two types of "electric" showers, heated element electric showers and boosted hot / cold showers, best mention which type of shower.

Feel free to add to list, might be handy to create one of those stickys,

Cheers again Moderators.

JohnnieK

Just to be a pain in the ass, the proper term for a vessel that stores cold water is a cistern (even the one in the attic). Sorry for being a nob.

As a plumber I am glad they have started this section. It makes me angry reading the different threads form some people that think they know what there talking about when some one posts a plumbing and heating question.

items

You might well be right but its not a term widely used for storage water in attic. Most refer to attic tanks, same with suppliers / distributors, coffin tanks are the name given.

Cisterns store cold water above toilets, urinals etc, using the word cistern for attic tank might lead to confusion over toilet cistern.

I notice a lot of people posting problems call cylinder a tank and a sink a basin, best have people thinking right terms to avoid confusion, calling a tank a cistern could cause some confusion.

If someone rang and said cistern is overflowing out the roof, would sound strange.

looksee

An incompetent 'plumber' found out the hard way that you can have a mains shower, and you should not connect a 'tank fed' (or whatever the term is) shower to a mains supply.

JohnnieK

What a gob****e he is. It's not even a mistake that could be easily made.

JohnnieK

I know items. I'm just messing

Kashkai

Just for balance, the "plumber" who did my house was an incompetent gobsh1te and I as a non "professional" plumber have spent the past 3 years sealing and/or fixing rads, sinks toilets bath shower relaying sewers etc etc etc.

So while there are good competent plumbers out there, there are also eejits who have trouble remembering to fit seals around joints or metal inserts inside qualpex pipework so they can be tightened to form a seal.

I'm just saying that some non plumbers like me have more plumbing knowledge than some so called pros.

items

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Just for balance, the "plumber" who did my house was an incompetent gobsh1te and I as a non "professional" plumber have spent the past 3 years sealing and/or fixing rads, sinks toilets bath shower relaying sewers etc etc etc.

So while there are good competent plumbers out there, there are also eejits who have trouble remembering to fit seals around joints or metal inserts inside qualpex pipework so they can be tightened to form a seal.

I'm just saying that some non plumbers like me have more plumbing knowledge than some so called pros.

True, problem is down to little to no regulation of plumbing and heating. Anyone can call themselves a plumber and start up a company without qualification, just because someone call's themselves a plumber doesn't mean they are so best watch out, before hiring a plumber ask about if plumber is reputable.

Gas is now under proper regulation, Oil is on the cards, soon enough new Oil boiler not commissioned into use by an OFTE type person wont be covered by warranty. Cash strapped Government sooner than later will introduce water rate, when that happens hopefully water will come under regulation just like Gas, but its doubtful.

Micky Dolenz

Prosperous Dave wrote: »

Just for balance, the "plumber" who did my house was an incompetent gobsh1te and I as a non "professional" plumber have spent the past 3 years sealing and/or fixing rads, sinks toilets bath shower relaying sewers etc etc etc.

So while there are good competent plumbers out there, there are also eejits who have trouble remembering to fit seals around joints or metal inserts inside qualpex pipework so they can be tightened to form a seal.

I'm just saying that some non plumbers like me have more plumbing knowledge than some so called pros.

sadly the same could be said for any trade or profession.

items wrote: »

Oil is on the cards, soon enough new Oil boiler not commissioned into use by an OFTE type person wont be covered by warranty.

That has already started with the introduction of passports for oil boilers. They are very indepth too, asking for make and model of flue analyzer used. It also asks for OFTEC number.

Between, OFTEC, RGI, and SEI, now more than ever do plumbers have to have many qualifications besides there senior trade cert or national craft cert. I firmly beliver these qualifications should be part of the standard based apprenticeship.

items

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

sadly the same could be said for any trade or profession.



That has already started with the introduction of passports for oil boilers. They are very indepth too, asking for make and model of flue analyzer used. It also asks for OFTEC number.

Between, OFTEC, RGI, and SEI, now more than ever do plumbers have to have many qualifications besides there senior trade cert or national craft cert. I firmly beliver these qualifications should be part of the standard based apprenticeship.

True, its all wrapped up in a way only for those who can afford, also plenty of money made for those who provide course, its big business. Having FAS provide extra certs during apprenticeship would be ideal, even separating individual trades, plumbing domestic, plumbing industrial, Gas service, Oil service and so on, instead we have just basic plumbing that's all it is basic. Most of the stuff you have to learn the hard way, while working.

Micky Dolenz

In many other countries Plumbing and heating/aircon are different trades. In the UK "heating engineers" looked down their noses at plumbers. I hope that doesn't happen here. Although the gap is starting to widen on Plumbers and RGI/OFTEC trained people. Even now a lot of RGI people couldn't bend a pipe or fit a basin etc. They do however know their way around a gas appliance.

Are we asking too much for plumbers to be albe to do everything? A big scope of work in that field.

items

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

In many other countries Plumbing and heating/aircon are different trades. In the UK "heating engineers" looked down their noses at plumbers. I hope that doesn't happen here. Although the gap is starting to widen on Plumbers and RGI/OFTEC trained people. Even now a lot of RGI people couldn't bend a pipe or fit a basin etc. They do however know their way around a gas appliance.

Are we asking too much for plumbers to be albe to do everything? A big scope of work in that field.

It's a case of how do you know who's capable / qualified to do the job. The way things are here, their is no real way of telling and no real regulation to deter cowboys from taking on stuff their not able for.

FAS and plumbing should be broken up into different sections so people can choose to become experience in a specialist field within plumbing and heating. Least that way each trade inside plumbing and heating will become more known over just "plumber".

Seen as its slow here I've been looking abroad and a few things have come up and I've noticed how far behind we are here, I missed out on a good job pipe fitting in Canada, even though I am more than experienced to do so I am not allowed work over their because I am not "qualified" in pipe fitting. Unlucky for me, their is no pipe fitting trade here, pipe fitting is part of plumbing but even so because my trade papers have "plumber" I am only allowed to work as a plumber and I've been given permission to do so.

If you don't have the right qualifications in Canada your not allowed work, end of. That's the way it should be here, its up to the big wigs to control things but they are not doing it. Its a free for all here, I could go out and start tiling tomorrow, once I've a sticker on my van saying I'm a tiler, none will know any different.

JohnnieK

OFTEC is still voluntary in Ireland as it stands at the moment. The boiler passport on new oil boilers is mainly for the UK market because OFTEC is like RGII for oil over there. If the installer is any good he will still fill in the passport though, I do. The Anton Sprint V2 is a great analizer.

The commision for energy regulation is talking about regulating the oil industry here too and OFTEC (Ireland) are not neccesserely going to get it, I would make a guess that another branch of RGII might be set up. They have the electricians, the gas fitters, so why not oil.

I am a heating engineer and worked with hundreds of heating engineers with British gas, there was never a culture of plumber bashing other than if the plumber was a plonker and that would be the same for all trades including my own.
I find it frightening that there seems to be no gas qualification here for anybody who might want to sit them, so you may find as plumbers you are more qualified to do the work of a RGII then they are. As a heating engineer i would say the transition from plumber to a heating engineer isn't that great if you keep the appliances out of it and there are lots of heating engineers who never put there head inside a boiler. In the UK there is more of a difference between a service engineer and installation engineer both are heating engineers with the same qualification, just two different skill sets, Gary.

JohnnieK

items wrote: »

Seen as its slow here I've been looking abroad and a few things have come up and I've noticed how far behind we are here, I missed out on a good job pipe fitting in Canada, even though I am more than experienced to do so I am not allowed work over their because I am not "qualified" in pipe fitting. Unlucky for me, their is no pipe fitting trade here, pipe fitting is part of plumbing but even so because my trade papers have "plumber" I am only allowed to work as a plumber and I've been given permission to do so.

Are you really going abroad items? I got let go last October after 10 years with the company, I set up on my own in January. It's tough going but I love it. I'v already got a bit of word of mouth business, the hard part is getting my name out there.
The boiler servicing is hard going, I find a lot of people think because Board Gais supply the gas they have to get them to service it, it's a pain.

JohnnieK

Thats true Gary
I am a qualified plumber but iv probably installed the same amount of plumbing systems as heating and serviced many makes of boilers and repaired them (both gas and oil) so I suppose I am lucky that I have a broad knowledge of the trade as it is stand.

Thank God really seen as I work for myself now it would be even harder going out with just knowledge of one aspect.

Well Johnnie, if your going to fill out the benchmark and use your analyzer, then i maybe able to put a bit of work your way, i get calls sometimes for service work i can't do myself and boiler chops/power flushing i am to lazy to do,mostly in Dublin, so if you pm with your details I'll push them your way when they come up, as me dad says "it's nice to be nice", Gary.

items

JohnnieK wrote: »

Are you really going abroad items? I got let go last October after 10 years with the company, I set up on my own in January. It's tough going but I love it. I'v already got a bit of word of mouth business, the hard part is getting my name out there.
The boiler servicing is hard going, I find a lot of people think because Board Gais supply the gas they have to get them to service it, it's a pain.

Sure am if its possible, last two company's I worked for went out of business because they couldn't compete, we were doing best job over affordable job so kept getting out priced over the cheap skate shortcut'ers. Instead of sacrificing quality of work to keep jobs coming the owners decided to close shop. That's the problem here, customers can have two types of systems, one that agrees with regulation with additions to ensure longevity / hassle free and another thats just thrown together with just basics, enough to have it running, each system cost of install is different, unfortunately people tend to go for best price over best job. A bit of regulation would help but since there is none a lot of the good guys are out of work due to their prices being to high.

Everyone pays for it in the end, over the last few months we've all seen what happens when a bad system is fitted. Never once got a phone call from an ex customers even though I'm on same number but I got some work out of emergency and had to go out a few times fixing stuff that didn't need fixing had it been done right.

Thats a pain with Board Gas alright, see plenty of lads now adding Board Gas stickers to van even though they are not exactly working for them, just to highlight attention along with the RGII I guess.

items

JohnnieK wrote: »

OFTEC is still voluntary in Ireland as it stands at the moment. The boiler passport on new oil boilers is mainly for the UK market because OFTEC is like RGII for oil over there. If the installer is any good he will still fill in the passport though, I do. The Anton Sprint V2 is a great analizer.

The commision for energy regulation is talking about regulating the oil industry here too and OFTEC (Ireland) are not neccesserely going to get it, I would make a guess that another branch of RGII might be set up. They have the electricians, the gas fitters, so why not oil.

Just to let you know boiler passport is on the cards here, was due to happen late in 09 but hopefully it will be on way soon, must find the link, I posted it here before, its in relation to Irish boiler manufactures, they wont give out warranty unless boiler commissioned by OFTEC "type" person.

Installs were so bad Irish manufacturer were giving out free commission to save from warranty calls and still boiler's remained running without commission.

JohnnieK

items wrote: »

Thats a pain with Board Gas alright, see plenty of lads now adding Board Gas stickers to van even though they are not exactly working for them, just to highlight attention along with the RGII I guess.

Iv seen that my self alright, don't know it they are aloud though.

I know what your talking about regarding shoddy workmanship, I got a call from a letting agent I do some work for, his client wants me to inspect a troublesome system. She has new tenents in since December and heating not working properly.

I arrived at the house and the Rads all had cold spots all over, classic tell tail signs of a clogged up system. The tenent told me some guy came out a week before Christmas and Guess what his solution was!! he put an expansion vessel in the hotpress. Now the system has two expansion vessels (an old Potterton PrimaF with vessel in kitchen) Not only that he never blanked the old open vent.

I went to flush it today and found a leak (poxy Techtite fitting) the pipe was not filled enough and damaged the rubber seal ring and the thing was weeping for years.

Pandoras Box.

That would be great Gary

I have to be careful though got my nuckels wraped before for mentioning company name.

JohnnieK

items wrote: »

Just to let you know boiler passport is on the cards here, was due to happen late in 09 but hopefully it will be on way soon, must find the link, I posted it here before, its in relation to Irish boiler manufactures, they wont give out warranty unless boiler commissioned by OFTEC "type" person.

I know iv heard of this alright. I done my oil course in FAS there was a guy from C&F Quadrant doing it. He told us about it.

He said that someone brought Firebird to court over this because they wouldn't stand by the warranty because it wasn't commissioned by OFTEC engineer. Apparently they won because OFTEC have no legs in Ireland or something.

Don't know how true it is though.

OFTEC are expensive to join and you have to do the last module in Tyrone witch is a real put off.

items

True, I know all about it. You might want to edit out last bit of (other) post.

JohnnieK

The OFTEC bit?

items

JohnnieK wrote: »

The OFTEC bit?

No the other bit, personal details are a no no I might even be scalded for acting as a Mod, just giving you heads up could do with more plumbers posting not being banned.

Micky Dolenz

Boiler passports have came with Grant,Warmflow and Firebird boilers since late last year.

JohnnieK

Thanks Items

Still new to all this

items

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Boiler passports have came with Grant,Warmflow and Firebird boilers since late last year.

True but for now a person deemed "experienced" enough to install / commission can fill out the required paper work. A change is on the cards soon only a person with OFTEC or similar type qualifications like FAS or direct boiler manufacturer certs can commission boilers in order for customer to avail of warranty.

Oil is now like Gas was 5 years ago, people with "experience" could certify works, now they cant unless RGII, Oil will be same but it will be a slow process.

Micky Dolenz

items wrote: »

True but for now a person deemed "experienced" enough to install / commission can fill out the required paper work. A change is on the cards soon only a person with OFTEC or similar type qualifications like FAS or direct boiler manufacturer certs can commission boilers in order for customer to avail of warranty.

Oil is now like Gas was 5 years ago, people with "experience" could certify works, now they cant unless RGII, Oil will be same but it will be a slow process.

But to fill out the paper work (honestly) you need to have an oil pressure guage and a flue analzyer. Anybody with that sort of equipment should be competent. If you don't have these tools, how could one sign off passports.

In relation to oil to gas, it probably is more like ten years, atleast with gas, it an installer did a new installation that required a meter, it would be checked for basic safety, soundness test, correct flue, correct material, etc by a Bord Gais approved person.

items

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

But to fill out the paper work (honestly) you need to have an oil pressure guage and a flue analzyer. Anybody with that sort of equipment should be competent. If you don't have these tools, how could one sign off passports.

In relation to oil to gas, it probably is more like ten years, atleast with gas, it an installer did a new installation that required a meter, it would be checked for basic safety, soundness test, correct flue, correct material, etc by a Bord Gais approved person.

You'd be surprised how many lads out there don't have the kit or experience to commission in accordance with passport, their is nothing stopping them from just filling out figures without taking test, real easy to copy figures into paperwork at the moment, I'd say its happening too.

Only way to be certain is to have installers registered providing certification numbers / details etc and thats on the cards, God only knows how long its due this year but still unlikely.

It will get interesting when oil refiills will be refused because tanks don't meet the regs.

Johnnie send me your details via a private message, i will stick it in my phone and the next time someone is twisting my melons for a service call i can't cover i will put your way and you can thank your analyzer for that, i don't know many who can use them so there no point passing them the work:D, Gary.

Kashkai

Why don't the plumbers on here set up a sticky with their contact details so other Boardsies can easily contact them and put business their way. Its the done thing on other forums, e.g. electrical, satellite forums etc. A bit of free advertising in the current economic climate won't hurt.