Croke Park and its "open door" policy.

Spiritoftheseventies

this in this SINDO sports suppliment and second piece they have run in as many weeks about Croke Park opening its doors. Question is do authorities need to keep revisiting this issue.
I'm for staging the odd game (four games max per year) here but as such wouldn't be in favour of Croke Park be turned into our national stadium

By DION FANNING EXCLUSIVE

Sunday February 14 2010

Liverpool and Celtic have been in talks to play in a high-profile friendly at Croke Park this summer, the Sunday Independent has learned.

They would possibly have been part of a four-team mini-tournament held at the ground and negotiations were at an advanced stage when Liverpool withdrew because Croke Park had not been confirmed as the venue. Speculation that Real Madrid or Barcelona were one of the other teams lined up was denied last week.

Sources close to Liverpool confirmed on Friday that they had agreed to play in the friendly but had withdrawn when they were told the venue was not definitely available. However, they added that the decision to withdraw was not irreversible.

The stadium director of Croke Park, Peter McKenna, told the Sunday Independent that they had been asked about hosting the game.

"We were approached with a view to staging a Celtic/Liverpool pre-season fixture and a number of other exhibition fixtures too. We made it quite clear to the respective agents and promoters who contacted us that we were not in a position to enter into discussions," he said.

The prospect of the game has not disappeared though, with the possibility that GAA Congress in mid-April will allow Central Council to make their own decisions about how the venue is used. Currently, they can only enter negotiations with the IRFU and the FAI.

"The only organisations we have been directed to deal with are the IRFU and FAI in an arrangement where Croke Park was offered until the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road is complete," McKenna added. "Any future change to this directive is a matter for the GAA's Annual Congress in April."

While many clubs will have their pre-season games already planned by then, Liverpool are known not to finalise their schedule until April, at which point Croke Park may be available.

With the World Cup taking place in South Africa and players like Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard likely to be involved in the latter stages, the club are known to have ruled out a long-haul trip to Asia during pre-season so a game in Dublin would be ideal.

A number of promoters, not all of them Irish-based, are known to be pursuing games in GAA headquarters.

For the GAA, the possibility of having two clubs with strong Irish ties as the first British clubs to play at Croke Park would also be enticing.

Liverpool were once regular visitors to Ireland but the need to exploit marketing opportunities in Asia has seen a change of emphasis. A Liverpool XI comprised of youth players played in Dunmanway last August but a game with established stars facing a Celtic team that may even include Robbie Keane would be a sell-out.

It would be welcomed by the GAA, which is considering how to replace €36m in lost revenue from the soccer and rugby internationals, the last of which will take place at the end of March.

In the medium to long-term, they may be in a position to compete with the redeveloped Lansdowne Road as a venue for major finals in soccer and rugby, but a friendly involving two of the best supported clubs in the country would also be lucrative.

Lansdowne Road will not be available this summer as the first match planned in the new ground takes place on August 7 with Ireland playing Argentina four days later in the first soccer match.

"There is no way the first game in the Aviva will be anything other than rugby," a source close to the negotiations said last week.

The FAI would have to sanction any soccer match taking place in Ireland and while there might be concern at the competition Croke Park would provide, this is not seen as a difficulty by potential promoters of friendlies. It is a growing market in world football, although one expert believes they may have already reached saturation point.

"There are two pre-season tournaments in London, one at the Emirates and one at Wembley and this is probably too much. Dublin is a much smaller market."

Yet the possibility of playing at Croke Park is an incentive for many clubs, not just those who have strong Irish links.

The Real Madrid delegation that visited the stadium last year during the trip to Ireland which ended with a friendly against Shamrock Rovers in Tallaght Stadium, are known to have been overwhelmed by the stadium and baffled why it wasn't available to them. That may be about to change as Croke Park has an opportunity to capitalise on the breaking down of the barriers.

- DION FANNING EXCLUSIVE

Sunday Independent

Mayoegian

No soccer or foreign games should be played in Croke Park, once Landsdowne Road is completed.

smellslikeshoes

MaighEoGoDeo wrote: »

No soccer or foreign games should be played in Croke Park, once Landsdowne Road is completed.

Ah here why don't you join the rest of us in the 21st century.

super_furry

Can't understand the kind of thinking that would rather see the stadium lay empty and unused rather than utilised as the resource it is to make millions of euro for the GAA for little effort on their behalf. Money that could be reinvested into where the GAA does its best work - at grass roots. This entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic.

Spiritoftheseventies

The argument will ultimately boil down to whether GAA need the revenue once rugby and soccer returns to Aviva stadium. Attendances were down a bit for championship games last year. Like I said four matches per year max should do and in any case the Croke Park residents have to be considered as well.

SomeFool

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

The argument will ultimately boil down to whether GAA need the revenue once rugby and soccer returns to Aviva stadium. Attendances were down a bit for championship games last year. Like I said four matches per year max should do and in any case the Croke Park residents have to be considered as well.

You're spot on here I think, the money brought in by the extra games over the past few years would surely be missed. The NFL are selling out wembley every year now as well and something like that would be a more ideal option because of it's calendar to playing a soccer tournament in the middle of the championship.

Powerhouse

super_furry wrote: »

Can't understand the kind of thinking that would rather see the stadium lay empty and unused rather than utilised as the resource it is to make millions of euro for the GAA for little effort on their behalf. Money that could be reinvested into where the GAA does its best work - at grass roots. This entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic.

Stadia being used or unused has never had anything to do with this argument. If it had then there would be no argument for constructing, at a huge cost, a new ground at Lansdowne Road which will be empty for 350+ days per year. Croke Park should be the national stadium end of. I don't understand the mentality that sees nothing wrong with hosting four games a year but would have a problem with five, eight or twelve. You can lose your virginity only once. What difference does the number of games make at this stage? If the argument is one of financial benefit then why not try to maximise the financial benefit?

You might think "this entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic" but the 'no to Irish games' lives on quietly in Shamrock Rovers ground and in the new 'national stadium' at Lansdowne Road. But of course that's okay because the media doesn't criticise it so we don't really think of it at all.

cson

Aviva aren't going to let the FAI or IRFU decamp to Croke Park at will even if the doors remained open to them. It's a non issue imo.

SomeFool

cson wrote: »

Aviva aren't going to let the FAI or IRFU decamp to Croke Park at will even if the doors remained open to them. It's a non issue imo.

I don't think the Celtic and Liverpool friendlies would be connected to the FAI. I'm sure Landsdown road would be the touted venue if this was the case as it's open in August.

Mushy

Only problem I see for it is the usage on the pitch. After whatever concerts will be there this year it'll need to be re-laid, as is usually the case. If not the case, then I don't see why not.

panda100

Mushy wrote: »

Only problem I see for it is the usage on the pitch. After whatever concerts will be there this year it'll need to be re-laid, as is usually the case. If not the case, then I don't see why not.

After the state of the pitch in the Mayo-Meath match last year I wouldnt like to see the pitch being re-laid too often.

I think the GAA should focus on bringing more people to GAA games and more junior,club,ladies matches being played in Croke park before it opens its doors to more concerts and soccer matches.
I've been to more rugby games and concerts at Croke park over the last few years then I have GAA matches.I dont think Croke park should be exclusively for Leinster teams or All Ireland finals.

I used to be all up for Croke park being leased out to other sports but have yet to see any evidence of the money being used for any good in the sport or at grassroot GAA level. Going to watch any match at Pairc ui Chaoimh is a kin to torture. I know many local teams in smaller counties that still have to use cattle sheds as changing rooms. All the money that Croke Park seem to be getting for rugby matces etc seem to be going straight into fat cats pockets.

Croke park is one of the best stadiums in europe if not the world. Its nothing short of an absolute disgrace if its not being used on an international stage for Rugby and soccer internationals. They should also be looking to get a europa league/champions league final played there.

While I think the aviva is a complete waste of money when we have croke park it could still be used for the smaller games but I think if a game is big enough to exceed the capacity if the aviva then croke park should be used.

Daysha

Unfortunately with the way Lansdowne Road is being financed there's absolutely no way major soccer/rugby matches will return back to Croker, certainly in the next 10 years anyway. The sale of 10-year premium level seats in Lansdowne makes up a huge chunk of the money the FAI and IRFU needed to reconstruct the stadium, and they're not going to be sold if the organisations announce they may move the bigger matches to Croker. Ticket sales have been slow enough as it is so it would be bordering on financial suicide if they so much as hint that they may return to Croker in the future.

Orizio

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

The argument will ultimately boil down to whether GAA need the revenue once rugby and soccer returns to Aviva stadium. Attendances were down a bit for championship games last year. Like I said four matches per year max should do and in any case the Croke Park residents have to be considered as well.

No it doesn't, the argument boils down to whether or not we are stupid enough to turn down huge amounts of money for no practical reason. I vote for being smart and taking the cheques.

flahavaj

super_furry wrote: »

Can't understand the kind of thinking that would rather see the stadium lay empty and unused rather than utilised as the resource it is to make millions of euro for the GAA for little effort on their behalf. Money that could be reinvested into where the GAA does its best work - at grass roots. This entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic.

I'd be absolutely ecstatic if the GAA could fleece the likes of Liverpool and Celtic for a massive wedge of cash just like they've done to the IRFU and FAI. Bring it on I say, though a part of me would be sickened to see such mediocrity grace our hallowed turf.:pac:

cruiserweight

panda100 wrote: »

I used to be all up for Croke park being leased out to other sports but have yet to see any evidence of the money being used for any good in the sport or at grassroot GAA level. Going to watch any match at Pairc ui Chaoimh is a kin to torture. I know many local teams in smaller counties that still have to use cattle sheds as changing rooms. All the money that Croke Park seem to be getting for rugby matces etc seem to be going straight into fat cats pockets.

What fat cats are these?

munchkin_utd

Ironic that Celtic might be the first non GAA club team on the hallowed turf.
Remember this!



Will this lad be protesting at celtic playing in croker next summer?

keane2097

super_furry wrote: »

Can't understand the kind of thinking that would rather see the stadium lay empty and unused rather than utilised as the resource it is to make millions of euro for the GAA for little effort on their behalf. Money that could be reinvested into where the GAA does its best work - at grass roots. This entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic.

+1000000000

Orizio

panda100 wrote: »

After the state of the pitch in the Mayo-Meath match last year I wouldnt like to see the pitch being re-laid too often.

I think the GAA should focus on bringing more people to GAA games and more junior,club,ladies matches being played in Croke park before it opens its doors to more concerts and soccer matches.
I've been to more rugby games and concerts at Croke park over the last few years then I have GAA matches.I dont think Croke park should be exclusively for Leinster teams or All Ireland finals.

I used to be all up for Croke park being leased out to other sports but have yet to see any evidence of the money being used for any good in the sport or at grassroot GAA level. Going to watch any match at Pairc ui Chaoimh is a kin to torture. I know many local teams in smaller counties that still have to use cattle sheds as changing rooms. All the money that Croke Park seem to be getting for rugby matces etc seem to be going straight into fat cats pockets.

We've had this discussion before - (1) your making these 'fat cats' up, they don't exist, (2) check the GAA website for their yearly budget and where the money goes and (3) the state of Cork's stadia is due completely to the CCB, although even they eventually have started to use the money they've been sitting on for years, planning the re-development of the Pairc, upgrading facilities at Mallow, Riverstown, Fermoy and elsewhere and finally upgrading our youth development structures with paid coaches etc.

rpurfield

think the aviva is one big cock up capacity wise but thats not really a debate for here.the opening of croke park should be entirely up to central council and not need congress all the time.as another poster said three or four games a year with the money going into grassroot development means everyones a winner

Fandango

I would go beyond the 3/4 games a year. Once it doesnt interfere with GAA games and the locals arent put out, why not have the games?? To hang on to the "No foreign Games" attitude is hugely short sighted imo. I would guarentee most fans of GAA also support a soccer team and would love to see them play in what is a fantastic yet until recently widely unknown stadium on the international stage. If Celtic v Liverpool does go ahead, i will certainly be lining up for a ticket!

rn

I would support the use of Croke Park a couple of times a year in order to get more non-gaa revenue for local level, particularly now that the capital sports program is gone. But it should be distributed direct to clubs from Croke Park...

I'm also in favour of not using croker for any game before the Leinster final and also again before the All-Ireland semi-finals. I believe that Leinster football and hurling has suffered because of the county game is no longer centred at local level... too many games are in Dublin between neighbouring counties. Its costing supporters too much to travel there and the propect of the venue never selling out means people are committing to follow their county. A few years ago you'd have to seach for tickets on a tuesday night before the big game. If you had them in your hand, you were planning all week to travel on the sunday. These days people are "waiting and see" and inevitably modern Irish life will throw up a reason to watch the game on TV on the sunday... There is no better marketing for a game than a shortage of tickets for the game. there is a sense of achievement in just getting one - whether you team win, loose or draw.

panda100

Orizio wrote: »

We've had this discussion before - (1) your making these 'fat cats' up, they don't exist, (2) check the GAA website for their yearly budget and where the money goes and (3) the state of Cork's stadia is due completely to the CCB, although even they eventually have started to use the money they've been sitting on for years, planning the re-development of the Pairc, upgrading facilities at Mallow, Riverstown, Fermoy and elsewhere and finally upgrading our youth development structures with paid coaches etc.

We clearly are going to keep on disagreeing on this topic so I'l keep it short and sweet.
The main reason people are citing for opening up Croke Park is for financial reasons,I've seen the GAA financial reports and I see the plans for CCB all of which are very good. Its now been almost five years since Croke Park has been leased out to other sports and it just seems to be taking a long time for the money to trickle down to grass root level and I say this as someone who regularly has to fundarise for a cash strapped ladies football team. As for no fat cats in the GAA, Just look at the presidents €150,000 salary for starters, with little regeneration outside the capital and many cash strapped local clubs, I think its a wholly inflated salary for an amateur sport.

But as I said, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the GAA's financing and the dispensation to county boards to tend to their own stadia.

Orizio

panda100 wrote: »

We clearly are going to keep on disagreeing on this topic so I'l keep it short and sweet.
The main reason people are citing for opening up Croke Park is for financial reasons,I've seen the GAA financial reports and I see the plans for CCB all of which are very good. Its now been almost five years since Croke Park has been leased out to other sports and it just seems to be taking a long time for the money to trickle down to grass root level and I say this as someone who regularly has to fundarise for a cash strapped ladies football team. As for no fat cats in the GAA, Just look at the presidents €150,000 salary for starters, with little regeneration outside the capital and many cash strapped local clubs, I think its a wholly inflated salary for an amateur sport.

But as I said, I think we will just have to agree to disagree on the GAA's financing and the dispensation to county boards to tend to their own stadia.

This isn't Croker Park's fault - its the fault of your county board. Get on to them about funding (in reality, the majority of your funding should come from the local community). I've already given you examples of 'regeneration' in Cork, for example, so that point is mute. Again, the CCB have literally sat on a ****load of money for the last decade - they are only beginning to use it now because of the furore over the strikes.

I'd suggest you stop blaming Croke Park for things that are largely under the local county board's remit. Dispute the GAA budget if you like, its clear the GAA pumps a huge amount of its money into development.

Powerhouse

munchkin_utd wrote: »

Ironic that Celtic might be the first non GAA club team on the hallowed turf.
Remember this!



Will this lad be protesting at celtic playing in croker next summer?

Unlikely. This was a member of the media who posed for that photo. They are still laughing at the reaction to it. The biggest laugh of all was when it was mentioned in an editorial in History Ireland magazine!

Has anyone ever considered why the guy's face is not visible and why he just happens to be wearing a full Celtic tracksuit and is relatively lightly dressed for the camera (to get the full effect of his outfit) while it's cold enough to have others wear hats! Rarely has such a clumsy set-up been so successful.

Orizio

Powerhouse wrote: »

Unlikely. This was a member of the media who posed for that photo. They are still laughing at the reaction to it. The biggest laugh of all was when it was mentioned in an editorial in History Ireland magazine!

Has anyone ever considered why the guy's face is not visible and why he just happens to be wearing a full Celtic tracksuit and is relatively lightly dressed for the camera (to get the full effect of his outfit) while it's cold enough to have others wear hats! Rarely has such a clumsy set-up been so successful.

Link?

cruiserweight

Does anybody have a link to the GAA budgets, spending etc. I have seen them in matchday programmes etc., but not online.

panda100 wrote: »

As for no fat cats in the GAA, Just look at the presidents €150,000 salary for starters, with little regeneration outside the capital and many cash strapped local clubs, I think its a wholly inflated salary for an amateur sport.

€150,000 to head up one of the largest sporting and cultural organisations in the country, referring to the president of the GAA as a fat cat makes it sound like he takes a cut everytime Croke Park is leased out.

BTW what exactly do you mean by "little regeneration outside the capital"? Many county grounds have been upgraded over the last number of years. In addition many county boards are also employing full time coaches to spread skills and gaelic games.

Orizio

cruiserweight wrote: »

Does anybody have a link to the GAA budgets, spending etc. I have seen them in matchday programmes etc., but not online.

€150,000 to head up one of the largest sporting and cultural organisations in the country, referring to the president of the GAA as a fat cat makes it sound like he takes a cut everytime Croke Park is leased out.

BTW what exactly do you mean by "little regeneration outside the capital"? Many county grounds have been upgraded over the last number of years. In addition many county boards are also employing full time coaches to spread skills and gaelic games. Just because you do not see it does not mean that it is not heppening. Most clubs, especially smaller clubs, need to engage in some sort of fund raising.

They should be on the GAA website somewhere, as I linked them to Panda the last time we debated.

ProperDeadly

panda100 wrote: »

I think the GAA should focus on bringing more people to GAA games and more junior,club,ladies matches being played in Croke park before it opens its doors to more concerts and soccer matches.
I've been to more rugby games and concerts at Croke park over the last few years then I have GAA matches.I dont think Croke park should be exclusively for Leinster teams or All Ireland finals.

Croker needs an attendance of something like 30,000 to break even for the day, so it makes absolutely no sense to have regular club/ladies matches etc there, because the GAA will just lose money!

real_red

Bring it on I say, though a part of me would be sickened to see such mediocrity grace our hallowed turf.

eh there would be more skill on display than has ever been seen on "your hollowed turf"

You might think "this entire 'no to foreign games' mantra is outdated and archaic" but the 'no to Irish games' lives on quietly in Shamrock Rovers ground and in the new 'national stadium' at Lansdowne Road. But of course that's okay because the media doesn't criticise it so we don't really think of it at all.

i think you'll find "Shamrock Rovers ground is owned by South Dublin County Council and is a community stadium open to all sports. In the near future id expect to see some under age gah games take place there and sham's would have no input unless it clashed with a pre arranged fixture...if you mean because tomas davis wanted to knock the 3/4 built stadium down and rebuild to less capacity so that dublin gaa could have a stadium on the northside i think you should do a little research on the matter..it was an outragous idea proposed way after SDCC had offer to help rovers finish the stadium..

as for the gaa wanting to use the new "national stadium", has anyone ever said they're not allowed? i doubt the fai/irfu would turn down handy cash...why would the gaa want to play there though? is 87,000 seats in croker not enough?

imho enough tax payers money has gone into croker that the gaa should be forced to open it up to all sports...iv often been amazed that Irelands most sectarian organisation gets so much support from a government suppose to be helping with a peace process

cson

Unfortunately it would seem that a lot of the Croke Park money is spent by the County Boards on their intercounty teams rather than facilities and grassroots levels. Whilst not wanting to ignite an argument re paying players I do think that it is galling to see a lot of money spent to ready teams to what is essentially a professional standard when the sport is still amateur. I'd propose a cap on what can be spent on the inter county teams as I believe to a lot of county boards the carrot of AI success is too much to turn down when deciding their spending priorities.

Powerhouse

real_red wrote: »

eh there would be more skill on display than has ever been seen on "your hollowed turf"



i think you'll find "Shamrock Rovers ground is owned by South Dublin County Council and is a community stadium open to all sports. In the near future id expect to see some under age gah games take place there and sham's would have no input unless it clashed with a pre arranged fixture...if you mean because tomas davis wanted to knock the 3/4 built stadium down and rebuild to less capacity so that dublin gaa could have a stadium on the northside i think you should do a little research on the matter..it was an outragous idea proposed way after SDCC had offer to help rovers finish the stadium..

as for the gaa wanting to use the new "national stadium", has anyone ever said they're not allowed? i doubt the fai/irfu would turn down handy cash...why would the gaa want to play there though? is 87,000 seats in croker not enough?

imho enough tax payers money has gone into croker that the gaa should be forced to open it up to all sports...iv often been amazed that Irelands most sectarian organisation gets so much support from a government suppose to be helping with a peace process

You need to do some research yourself. The GAA itself has long said it needs a smaller stadium in Dublin and Lansdowne Road would be an ideal size, but the pitch in the new ground will not be big enough. That was a decision made when it was planned. Yes, of course they were clever enough to never say "you are not allowed", just make it a de facto reality.

Forget about Shamrock Rovers - they should have been let go down the swanny just like all bad businesses should. But a stadium owned by the county council should be open to all sports end of story. Same as Lansdowne Road with alomst €200 million going to it from the exchequer. Strange that you think the public money argument should apply to Croke Park only.

real_red

But a stadium owned by the county council should be open to all sports end of story.

it is open to all sports, the only reason that senior GAA games can't be played is because of the pitch dimensions as far as i know...the reason the dimensions dont suit is because originally rovers had planned to build it themselves however when they got into financial trouble SDCC decided to help finish and use as a community stadium but decided knocking the stadium and rebuilding as well as getting new planning permission would cost too much..i cant see youe arguement with this tbh?

Same as Lansdowne Road with alomst €200 million going to it from the exchequer. Strange that you think the public money argument should apply to Croke Park only.

well as the fai have not said "you are not allowed" i didn't think i needed to say this but i feel both should be stadiums for the national use..in fact if delaney and the fai turned down such handy money id b discussed..

Blackjack

real_red wrote: »

well as the fai have not said "you are not allowed" i didn't think i needed to say this but i feel both should be stadiums for the national use..in fact if
delaney and the fai turned down such handy money id b discussed..

the Pitch at the Aviva Stadium is too small for GAA games.
As pointed out elsewhere, a lot more cash has been poured into the Aviva by the Taxpayer than has been given to Croke Park.

mallet head

Powerhouse wrote: »

But a stadium owned by the county council should be open to all sports end of story. Same as Lansdowne Road with alomst €200 million going to it from the exchequer. Strange that you think the public money argument should apply to Croke Park only.

Tallaght stadium is open to all sports as will Lansdowne. The last time I checked the GAA were not only the only ones with a 19 century rule on "foreign" sports and still hadn't signed up to the cross participation agreement.


It says a lot about the state of gaelic games in the 21th century when a "Friendly" between two British soccer clubs will probably draw a bigger crowd that almost any All Ireland semi-final. Ironic also when you consider the only team capable of filling the totally oversized stadium has one All Ireland in almost 30 years. Add to that the fact half their fans are event junkies who wouldn't have a basic understanding of the rules and probably never stepped inside a GAA club were the game lives and dies and you begin to see why the game is down the toilet in the capital.

Powerhouse

mallet head wrote: »

Tallaght stadium is open to all sports as will Lansdowne.

Which GAA club is playing there?

Blackjack

mallet head wrote: »

It says a lot about the state of gaelic games in the 21th century when a "Friendly" between two British soccer clubs will probably draw a bigger crowd that almost any All Ireland semi-final. Ironic also when you consider the only team capable of filling the totally oversized stadium has one All Ireland in almost 30 years. Add to that the fact half their fans are event junkies who wouldn't have a basic understanding of the rules and probably never stepped inside a GAA club were the game lives and dies and you begin to see why the game is down the toilet in the capital.

You do know that every all Ireland final is full to Capacity, don't you?

EoghanRua

mallet head wrote: »

It says a lot about the state of gaelic games in the 21th century when a "Friendly" between two British soccer clubs will probably draw a bigger crowd that almost any All Ireland semi-final. Ironic also when you consider the only team capable of filling the totally oversized stadium has one All Ireland in almost 30 years. Add to that the fact half their fans are event junkies who wouldn't have a basic understanding of the rules and probably never stepped inside a GAA club were the game lives and dies and you begin to see why the game is down the toilet in the capital.

Hard to see irony in the fact that the county with the biggest population and also the one in which Croke Park is located in the team capable of filling the stadium. Surely that is to be expected purely on the basis of numbers? You have more people living within walking distance of Croke Park than you have in most counties.

But what would be bizarre is to go from a situation where run o' the mill GAA National League games outstrip League of Ireland soccer attendances while the anticipated attendance at a match involving two British teams would rival the All-Ireland Final according to you. I think that says a lot more about Irish society and its curious enthrallment with everything that goes on across the water than it does about the state of gaelic games.

super_furry

Powerhouse wrote: »

Which GAA club is playing there?

There's no GAA club playing there - the pitch is too small for a full sized GAA pitch and in order for it to have been big enough, there would only have been room for one 3000 seater stand, with no room for further expansion. Instead now there's a 6000 seater stadium with two stands and the room to increase the capacity to 11,000. As it is a community stadium, which has already seen a rugby international, there is the option for local underage GAA teams to play there, should they so wish.

EoghanRua

super_furry wrote: »

There's no GAA club playing there - the pitch is too small for a full sized GAA pitch

That was my understanding of it too though others seemed to cast doubt on that.

Obviously the theoretical concession to local under-age clubs is meaningless as they won't need a 6,000 seater stadium, nor indeed 11,000. Now Dublin playing a National League game there would require such a capacity, but of course that was not provided for.

So, when you put all the double-speak and hypocrisy aside it is as the Miinister long insisted it would be - a GAA free stadium. That would be grand of course if it wasn't a publicly owned ground.

real_red

Obviously the theoretical concession to local under-age clubs is meaningless as they won't need a 6,000 seater stadium, nor indeed 11,000. Now Dublin playing a National League game there would require such a capacity, but of course that was not provided for.

Your missing the whole point as to why the pitch does not suit GAA. Shamrock Rovers bought the land and started to build the stadium, could not finish it (for a number of reasons) so SDCC decided to take over and make it a community stadium...Im sure if SDCC had been the main player from the start the plans may have been different..the GAA is like the mafia of Ireland ffs, they have most politican's in their pockets so I highly doubt the SDCC would risk discriminating against the GAA...

You say no underage games would be played in tallaght - what about the cumman na bunscoil or whatever its called? do they not played the finals in croker each year and only get a couple of thousand to watch? Or what about competitions like feile's - could they not be held there?

Powerhouse

real_red wrote: »

Your missing the whole point as to why the pitch does not suit GAA. Shamrock Rovers bought the land and started to build the stadium, could not finish it (for a number of reasons) so SDCC decided to take over and make it a community stadium...Im sure if SDCC had been the main player from the start the plans may have been different..the GAA is like the mafia of Ireland ffs, they have most politican's in their pockets so I highly doubt the SDCC would risk discriminating against the GAA...

You say no underage games would be played in tallaght - what about the cumman na bunscoil or whatever its called? do they not played the finals in croker each year and only get a couple of thousand to watch? Or what about competitions like feile's - could they not be held there?

You are the one mssing the point. The decision that the pitch does not suit the GAA was one quite deliberately made. Twenty metres would have done it no problem if the will was there.

You are also missing the point about under-age games. Of course you could play under-age games there, but so what? It's not needed for that. There are plenty of grounds that would hold the few hundred at under-age games. It is adult games that would require a larger capacity so pointing to under-age games is meaningless.

The idea that a stadium should be built from public funds for a profit-seeking business like Shamrock Rovers, especially one that has been shown time and again to be unsustainable, is scandalous. In effect it is for their exclusive use. Let us not have any nonesense about the odd rugby match or some feile in the recesses of your imagination cloud that reality.

Hopefully the true reasons why John O'Donoghue was so determined that the GAA would never use that stadium will emerge in the future. Unfortunatley as he has already been unseated having been shown to have badly abused public funds it will not occasion a resignation but it might show up some more of the corrupt practices that are constantly emerging in the League of Ireland.

celt262

Kyla High Soda wrote: »

Croke park is one of the best stadiums in europe if not the world. Its nothing short of an absolute disgrace if its not being used on an international stage for Rugby and soccer internationals. They should also be looking to get a europa league/champions league final played there.

While I think the aviva is a complete waste of money when we have croke park it could still be used for the smaller games but I think if a game is big enough to exceed the capacity if the aviva then croke park should be used.

I dont agree with that. Any Stadium that doesnt protect you from the rain when you are seated isnt up to scratch as far as im concerned.


The GAA should let it to be used to raise revenue as much as they can.

Derryleigh

The only way that this match should go ahead is if it is not impinging on any GAA championship matches during the summer.

What we must remember is that the GAA, soccer and rugby are all in competition with each other for young players as I see in my local area, which is rural and which has traditionally being a strong GAA area.

Its not all about money. If someone in the GAA raises the question, why should we be handing over our pitch to allow soccer to promote itself, then I think that is a reasonable question.

It has nothing to do with being in the 18th century or whatever, it is about the GAA making a judgement call on the benefits of this apart from the financial benefits.

If this was winter, it would not be such an issue and they would be fooliosh not to allow it go ahead, but in a world cup year especially, the GAA need to focus on promoting their own product first and foremost especially at the height of the championship.

panda100

cruiserweight wrote: »

BTW what exactly do you mean by "little regeneration outside the capital"? Many county grounds have been upgraded over the last number of years.

Largely due to local fundraising or corporate sponsorship? The Gaelic grounds in Limerick wouldnt have been built without JP Mc Manus help for example?
I know and realise this is LCB's fault,but as far as Im concerend the rejuvenation of provinical GAA grounds should be under the remit of the national GAA bureaucracy. I take on board though what you and Orizo are saying and do appreciate that the GAA have definatly tried to make inroads into promoting the sport.

Anyway, I would have the same sentiments as Derryleigh. Theres not much point having all this extra revenue when hurling and football are losing so many young players to soccer and rugby.

Spiritoftheseventies

celt262 wrote: »

I dont agree with that. Any Stadium that doesnt protect you from the rain when you are seated isnt up to scratch as far as im concerned.


The GAA should let it to be used to raise revenue as much as they can.

Yes would definitely be of great use for the Dublin championship. How many southside teams have to travel over to Parnell park after work when Tallaght Stadium would be an ideal alternative. This line that its not a suitable gaa ground doesn't hold.

super_furry

Spiritoftheseventies wrote: »

How many southside teams have to travel over to Parnell park after work when Tallaght Stadium would be an ideal alternative. This line that its not a suitable gaa ground doesn't hold.

There was never the room on the land for it. It just wasn't possible. Not once during any stage of the judicial review or high court procedings were alternative stadiums plans offered by Thomas Davies GAA Club or Croke Park that would have allowed for a full sized GAA pitch within the stadium. The land on which the stadium is built could not have accomodated both a full size pitch and two stands without knocking down the adjoining Oldbawn Community School.

Rosita

super_furry wrote: »

Not once during any stage of the judicial review or high court procedings were alternative stadiums plans offered by Thomas Davies GAA Club or Croke Park that would have allowed for a full sized GAA pitch within the stadium.

It's not the job of Thomas Davis or the GAA to do stadium plans. They were entitled to argue the principle regarding the use of a publicly owned facility. It is up to planners to develop plans.

If there was insufficient space to build a such a public sporting amenity then the council should have cleared the site and built a playgound or something for which it was suitable.

MaighEoAbu

Not everything is about the money or the revenue! Before soccer and rugby were allowed play in Croke Park, there was a certain pride you felt in Croke Park knowing that the stadium was exclusive to just GAA. Soccer and rugby players could be all the celebrities they want, with their WAGS, their huge, outlandish salaries and their sponsorship deals. They could have everything in the world, but it didn't matter because our players had something better - Croke Park.

Now, look around and I can already see the damage. My own GAA club and others. Kids who once dreamt of playing in Croke Park on All-Ireland Final day have given up that wish, and have taken up rugby or soccer. After all, they're going to have equal opportunity now to play there, right? Many of my friends at school had that same pride in Croke Park, a unique pride exclusive to the GAA. I know a few who have now left GAA because that feeling is gone and have turned to the local soccer club.

I'm getting sick of John Delaney's smug attitude towards the GAA and Croke Park. We have broken a rule made by the forefathers of the GAA and it seems he never appreciates it.

Why are we opening the doors to Croke Park indefinitely it seems, to our competitors? Do the idiots who are making these decisions realise what damage they are doing to the future of this organisation. What's some revenue in comparison to the long-term damage to the GAA? Would these decision-makers please come down to the local clubs who are trying their best to promote the GAA at local level who are now having to compete more than ever with rugby and soccer?

It's time the decision-makers woke up and realised it's not all about the money.

super_furry

Rosita wrote: »

If there was insufficient space to build a such a public sporting amenity then the council should have cleared the site and built a playgound or something for which it was suitable.

So they should have demolished a stadium that was 50% complete in order to build a playground just because a full sized GAA pitch couldn't be accomodated?

What about swimming pools? They're publicly owned sporting facilities that aren't fit for senior GAA also. Should they all be demolished for 'playgrounds'?

Really sad to see that the 'if we can't have it, no-one can' thinking still exists in some quarters.

Spiritoftheseventies

Wonder if Rovers intransigence have anything to do with the Clann na Gael fontenoy episode in early 90s when they wanted to have game played there but Gaa wouldnt sanction it.