fianna fail and why they shouldnt get a sniff of your vote in the next election

bucks4becks

I have become so disillusioned with the political system here in ireland especially government. The lies and corrupt decisions are out of control and look and where our country is from it. Fianna failk are the main instigators of all this so from nnow and into the future , I will be writing down my thoughts and views on the past , the present and the future. If you decide to read great! if you dont read thats fine - at least I know the truth of this party will be out there. I plan on posting every couple of days if I can. Just take a close look at the new rules introduced re tds expenses and thats just recent. People should be ashamed of themselves for calling themselves members/supporters of this party.

rovert

Too bad there are no real alternatives then.

Biggins

Welcome to the Boards/the forum firstly.

A lot of folk here feel your pain and disillusion at the current situation. An awful lot.
There seems to be a number of camps on them.
One side outright dis-likes them and want no more of them and their antics in power (I'm in this group) - another few think they are the best(!) of a bad lot - and another group think there is nothing to replace them (this I can understand to a great degree).
Others lie somewhere in between the mixture of the above.

So far I don't see any possible viable alternative organisations for the future.
We need a complete clean bunch of people in the Dail on BOTH sides.
Will it happen? Not likely at all. Frankly, we are just going to get more of the same.
This depresses me, not just for my future but for my 4 children's future.

I HAD hoped in the early days of the Greens for a fresh start for the country - but the heads of the Greens sold out, became lapdogs and now are the makers of their own forthcoming demise.
We are screwed for some times to come as far as I can see - and the public will pay through their pockets and being further exploited for party gain.

Ardent

If I was to think back of all the stuff that has angered me about FF over the last 7/8 years, I could write a novel about it. And I'm not talking about corruption or cronyism, merely their incompetence!

How anyone votes for them is beyond me.

DrumSteve

I was expecting a bit more from that opening post tbh. it was a real build up seeing the thread title.... such a let down.

as opposed to telling us why we should not vote for ff, OP, Please tell me why we should vote for the other crowd?

wicklowwonder

Sorry to burst your bubble FF and Labour will form the government with help from Greens if needed (or if any greens left). FF will lose very few seats in the election. This will happen as Enda Kenny is going to perform a Royston Brady on it.... He will shot himself in the foot probably both feet, I cant wait to hear about contract mark 2.

Annasopra

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble FF and Labour will form the government with help from Greens if needed (or if any greens left). FF will lose very few seats in the election. This will happen as Enda Kenny is going to perform a Royston Brady on it.... He will shot himself in the foot probably both feet, I cant wait to hear about contract mark 2.

the labour party membership will not vote for a coalition with FF

Biggins

Johnnymcg wrote: »

the labour party membership will not vote for a coalition with FF

I agree. Lord knows they can see the effect of what happens to parties lately who sign-up with the FF bunch.
Labour will take one look at the Green party, their coming future and hopefully learn an important lesson there alone.
(I'm not advocating support for the Labour party just because they won't join FF)

Biggins

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble FF and Labour will form the government...

...and as if to back points already made by others:

Gilmore rules out FF pact - won't do deal with 'party of disaster'

Thursday September 10 2009
LABOUR leader Eamon Gilmore last night definitively ruled out any post-election pact with Fianna Fail.
Speaking at his party's 'think-in' in Faithlegg, Co Waterford, Mr Gilmore categorically dismissed any prospect of a deal with Fianna Fail who, he said, have been in power for 4,500 days and brought the country to the "brink of economic disaster".
Earlier, when asked if he was ruling out power-sharing with Fianna Fail, Mr Gilmore only said: "The Labour Party will put Fianna Fail out of Government, full stop"...

...he clarified his earlier remarks, saying: "I made it clear before the European and local elections that the Labour Party will put Fianna Fail into opposition after the next election. We will not be going into Government with them.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gilmore-rules-out-ff-pact-wont-do-deal-with-party-of-disaster-1882414.html

Liam Byrne

Biggins wrote: »

...and as if to back points already made by others:

Gilmore rules out FF pact - won't do deal with 'party of disaster'


http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gilmore-rules-out-ff-pact-wont-do-deal-with-party-of-disaster-1882414.html

Welcome news, but - maybe due to the Greens con-job - it's difficult to believe anything which resemble categorical promises at this stage.

Hopefully Gilmore will have more ethics and conviction than they did though.

paddyland

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Welcome news, but - maybe due to the Greens con-job - it's difficult to believe anything which resemble categorical promises at this stage.

Hopefully Gilmore will have more ethics and conviction than they did though.

THAT is what it comes down to for me at the next election.

At this stage I have no idea who has the better policies towards getting us out of this FF mess. All the parties have a mixture of good and bad debaters, and I'm sure each party has a mix of good and bad policies. I am also sure none of the parties has all the answers, or who has any more answers than another.

For me, it comes down to ethics.

Fianna Fáil on that score? An embarrassing joke. I am afraid Bertie was so unethical and compromised, that he has taken an entire generation of FF with him. So FF out.

The performance of Fine Gael leads me to see them as no more than a FF mini-me, so they are out, too. Enda Kenny himself constantly at pains to say the politically correct thing, and ending up saying all the wrong things. I would need a couple of years to see how a FG party under somebody else would work out.

Green Party? Ethics went out the window the day Gormley sold his grassroots out to support power and pensions at all costs.

Sinn Féin? Ethics? No comment.

That leaves Labour. I honestly have no idea how sound their economic policies are, or any other policy for that matter. I have no idea how ethical Eamon Gilmore is. But he gives me no reason to believe he is anything as corrupt or compromised as anyone any of the other parties can offer. So far, Labour have my vote, purely and simply because the other parties make me sick, FF especially, and I will vote for whoever I think speaks plain and straight, instead of trying to flog spin all the time. Gilmore is the closest thing to that at the moment.

thebman

rovert wrote: »

Too bad there are no real alternatives then.

There are all the other parties though so maybe one of them could be an alternative if you read up on them :-/

Or are you one of those, like reading in this day and age, can someone summarise it into a catchy phrase for me :pac:

I'd be banned if I came up with a joke one for FF because of how extreme it would be

Biggins

thebman wrote: »

...I'd be banned if I came up with a joke one for FF because of how extreme it would be

Lets be honest, its near impossible to make up one better than the one they are already themselves!

jmayo

rovert wrote: »

Too bad there are no real alternatives then.

So will you still vote for ff ?

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Sorry to burst your bubble FF and Labour will form the government with help from Greens if needed (or if any greens left). FF will lose very few seats in the election. This will happen as Enda Kenny is going to perform a Royston Brady on it.... He will shot himself in the foot probably both feet, I cant wait to hear about contract mark 2.

As Enda would say "dream on baby"

Labour have seen what happened to Spring back in the 90s and more recently they are watching what is happening to the greens.
Their is also example of the pds.
Now these parties are much smaller than Labour, but they have bornt the brunt of peoples' displeasure with the ff led governments.


ff suck the life out of their coalition partners and leave the minority party as an empty shell, devoid of the principles and convictions they once stood for with a party leadership lacking the support of their own members, nevermind the public.

Biggins

jmayo wrote: »

...ff suck the life out of their coalition partners and leave the minority party as an empty shell...

Reminds me of vampires... only come out at night to drink, attending funerals, putting more people on stretchers, etc

Was Bram Stoker a FF member by any chance! :pac:

johngalway

Labour surely learned their lesson about going in with FF from their last affair. Coupled with FF's recent glory, I can't see Labour going in with them.

All talking aside, it comes down to the very same thing each election, numbers. Who get's what and who that allows them to talk to.

I think FF will suffer, I think Greens will suffer more.

How well Independents do, or SF is another thing. Not sure SF will do as well as other elections, as in increasing their vote.

Unless something huge happens I can't see past FG + Labour and possibly + other. Labour would likely have a bigger bargaining chip, not least of which being FG fairly sick of warming the opposition benches I would think.

FINGAL FAN

Labour will NOT put FF back in power . They have learned their lesson from Dick Spring . However its awful to think FG under this present twit are going to benefit .

trapsagenius

FINGAL FAN wrote: »

Labour will NOT put FF back in power . They have learned their lesson from Dick Spring . However its awful to think FG under this present twit are going to benefit .

I think you'll find that Labour's ratings remained high even after they went into government with FF.According to many analysts it was their decision to go straight into government with FG that damaged their credibility with the electorate.

BTW, if there was an election in the morning I would vote for FF because I would be appalled if Enda Kenny was Taoiseach.Also the fact that FG are absolutely hopeless when it comes to dealing with NI.

wicklowwonder

There are alot of people in the same boat, Enda Kenny will not win an election. FG should be may ahead in the polls, they have done nothing to encourage people to support them other than say ah sure you cant vote for that crowd, look what they have done. Labour will get into bed with FF purely because they will see as their only way of getting into power, I know a few members who feel they have waited on FG long enough that its time to take the plunge.

Liam Byrne

thebman wrote: »

Or are you one of those, like reading in this day and age, can someone summarise it into a catchy phrase for me :pac:

How about :

a) "Bertie's Team"

or

b) "Yes to Jobs

Both 100% irrelevant and misleading, but both worked for the scum.

Liam Byrne

trapsagenius wrote: »

BTW, if there was an election in the morning I would vote for FF because I would be appalled if Enda Kenny was Taoiseach.Also the fact that FG are absolutely hopeless when it comes to dealing with NI.

You seriously reckon that Kenny is worse than Cowen ?

Or as corrupt as Ahern ?

Jeez! I must be reading the wrong facts about the last ten years, because while Kenny is certainly no saint and was inept at getting O'Donoghue his due, he's light years ahead of those two.

wicklowwonder

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How about :

a) "Bertie's Team"

or

b) "Yes to Jobs

Both 100% irrelevant and misleading, but both worked for the scum.

how is Bertie's team misleading? He was the leader so thus his team was under him? Also yes to jobs is not misleading as more jobs have been created with FF in power and us in Europe than any other time in our history. SCUM Liam? These people are humans like me and i presume you.... They majority are trying to lead us of this recession. Please do not refer to the Fianna Fail party as SCUM! It still is the biggest political organisation in this country in term of numbers and i take that a personal insult from you. Scum is the people selling drugs on the street or the people killing in cold blood gang land style not a political party leading this country out of recession. What ever your beef with Ahern you cannot call the collective group of FF scum. But I am not suprised as I said on other threads you and a small few other on this site will do anything you can to blacken the name of good men. At least you have stopped comparing them to other an other organisation.....

Annasopra

wicklowwonder wrote: »

Labour will get into bed with FF purely because they will see as their only way of getting into power, I know a few members who feel they have waited on FG long enough that its time to take the plunge.

Labour won't go in with FF. Full Stop

imitation

The biggest problem is who else is there to vote for ? Just look at the circus FG ran this week with George Lee, and now a few cute hoors have seen a bit of conflict they are trying to make there way up the ladder.

+1 to the sentiment that FF are like vampires to there coalition partners, what state will be the green party be in 5 years time ?

wicklowwonder

Johnnymcg wrote: »

Labour won't go in with FF. Full Stop

same was said about the greens.... It will be a hung Dail so or someone like Sinn Fein will hold the balance the power. Would anyone go into power with Sinn Fein? What do you guys think?

ROS123

FF absolutely need to be out of power for at least one full term or more. They have been in power for too long and there is a need for a change. They have become to cozy and complacent. They have put their own people on every state body, their friends the developers have been given favourable conditions to end up ruining the country. The have presided over a situation with light touch regulation over the banks and maybe worst of all are completely cozied up to the heads of all civil service depts.
What worries me is that if they run for the full term, they may just get enough votes for them to still have a say in what happens. What should happen is an election in the short term and for FF to be decimated in the polls, maybe then we can get rid of all the dodgy lazy complacent FF politicians. Will it happen or will the Irish people run back to them like sheep. I worry for this country.

Liam Byrne

wicklowwonder wrote: »

same was said about the greens.... It will be a hung Dail so or someone like Sinn Fein will hold the balance the power. Would anyone go into power with Sinn Fein? What do you guys think?

Is that a genuine question, or just more scaremongering ?

wicklowwonder

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Is that a genuine question, or just more scaremongering ?

oh genuine question. I do personally feel that FF will perform alot better than you and others would have us believe. I also think Sinn Fein could very easily hold balance of power unless FF and Labour go in together.

Liam Byrne

wicklowwonder wrote: »

SCUM Liam? These people are humans like me and i presume you.... They majority are trying to lead us of this recession. Please do not refer to the Fianna Fail party as SCUM! It still is the biggest political organisation in this country in term of numbers and i take that a personal insult from you. Scum is the people selling drugs on the street or the people killing in cold blood gang land style not a political party leading this country out of recession.

It's a term I use for people or organisations without a shred of ethics.

If the cap fits.

Yes, I'll take your point that there might well be some decent people in it, but the fact is that those people have allowed their organisation to be dragged into the gutter by electing "leaders" such as the corrupt Ahern.

Decent people would either (a) fight against this or (b) resign from it as a dead loss.

wicklowwonder wrote: »

What ever your beef with Ahern you cannot call the collective group of FF scum.

Why ? Because we're supposed to "comment in sense, not in anger" or some such rubbish ?

You and hallelujahjordan go on and on about some notional "collective responsibility" because of the actions of some people in society, and yet you object when I indicate that FF has collective responsibility ?

Lose the double-standards or I'll end up with even less interest in your posts.

wicklowwonder wrote: »

But I am not suprised as I said on other threads you and a small few other on this site will do anything you can to blacken the name of good men. At least you have stopped comparing them to other an other organisation.....

Commenting on the actions of individuals is not "blackening" them,

And I won't rise to the bait about the "comparing", because we all know that's yet another attempt at discrediting my view.......the fact is that there are decent people in the Catholic Church too........so in an odd way, your objection to being compared to that is hilariously double-standards too.

But at least we have it in black and white....."collective responsibility" applies when FF want to blame us, but don't dare point out their collective responsibility. :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

wicklowwonder wrote: »

oh genuine question. I do personally feel that FF will perform alot better than you and others would have us believe. I also think Sinn Fein could very easily hold balance of power unless FF and Labour go in together.

Well, if they do, at least the only ounce of cash they'll be getting ever again from me will be their ridiculous €10 exit tax.

And I never thought I'd say this, but the fact is that while SF are seriously objectionable in my book, and I'm not convinced that they've changed their ways, at least there's some indication that they have.

So I'd view SF as less objectionable as FF these days.

Still, considering the fact that you ridicule FG policies, I'd doubt that FF would go into power with a party whose policies are even more hair-brained....

Or does it not mattter, as long as FF get their asses on "their" seats ?

johnnyskeleton

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Welcome news, but - maybe due to the Greens con-job - it's difficult to believe anything which resemble categorical promises at this stage.

Hopefully Gilmore will have more ethics and conviction than they did though.

To be fair, the Greens never said that they wouldn't go into coalition with FF, they just said that they were part of the opposition and didn't want to go into power with FF.

Ironically, the party whose ideas best match those of FF are FG. Is it beyond the realms of possibility that we will see a Fiana Gombeen coaltion and eventual unification of these two parties, with Labour as the reluctant opposition party?

Dempsey

I dont know who I'm going to vote for but wake up and smell the coffee. The alternatives aren't better. There is a reason that FG and co didn't get a lookin for the last how many years tbh, they weren't good enough. Yes we are in a mess but that doesn't automatically mean that the alternative would have done any better at all.

I think what would be best is a more diverse set of politicians being elected so it isnt a case of one party forcing their hand over another or a government just looking after a percentage of the population. We need a diverse government, elected based on what the politician is promising, not his party.

I know it sound idealistic but its a change from FF or FG + a desperate party trying to run this country. Respect shown to difference points of view and circumstance. Seen too many stories of governments marginalizing good people just because they represented a fraction of the vote.

Liam Byrne

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

To be fair, the Greens never said that they wouldn't go into coalition with FF, they just said that they .....didn't want to go into power with FF

And the difference is ?

Dempsey wrote: »

I dont know who I'm going to vote for but wake up and smell the coffee. The alternatives aren't better.

A lack of corruption - by it's nature - makes them "better".

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.

Dempsey wrote: »

There is a reason that FG and co didn't get a lookin for the last how many years tbh, they weren't good enough. Yes we are in a mess but that doesn't automatically mean that the alternative would have done any better at all.

They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

And maybe "the reason" that FG didn't get a look in was because they didn't lie and buy elections with false promises ?

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

A lack of corruption - by it's nature - makes them "better".

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.



They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

And maybe "the reason" that FG didn't get a look in was because they didn't lie and buy elections with false promises ?

Oh yes, Fianna Gael are squeaky clean. If you believe that then all I can do is laugh tbh

The certainly could have done worse!

Fianna Gael would have kept ALL of their promises

Are you really going to try and feed us this FG are better because they werent in the spotlight nonsense?

johnnyskeleton

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And the difference is ?

I don't think you can equate what the greens did with a liklihood that Labour will do the same.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, we should have much "better" overall, but at least FG aren't as bad.

It's a toss up between the lesser of two evils on the one hand and better the devil you know on the other.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

They certainly couldn't have done any worse!

There's always room to do worse, but if FG were in power the last few years at least they probably wouldn't have allowed the public sector to increase so much.

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

Are you really going to try and feed us this FG are better because they werent in the spotlight nonsense?

No. I prefer to deal in facts!

Remind me again where Lowry ended up after FG kicked him out because of his corruption ?

Then remind me how many FFers you've heard of getting permanently* kicked out because of corruption ?

* Sneaking BCF back in does not apply, for obvious reasons

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No. I prefer to deal in facts!

Remind me again where Lowry ended up after FG kicked him out because of his corruption ?

Then remind me how many FFers you've heard of getting permanently* kicked out because of corruption ?

* Sneaking BCF back in does not apply, for obvious reasons

But wasnt he corrupt whilst at FG???

What about that fact?

When was he proven as corrupt since his days at FG???

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

But wasnt he corrupt whilst at FG???

What about that fact?

When was he proven as corrupt since his days at FG???

What's your point ?

The FACT is that as soon as FG found out, he was history.

In stark contrast to FF.

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

Except if you're FF, in which case you back them all the way to the nearest tribunal or jail.....or State Funeral (paid for by the people who were screwed, and eulogised by his successor in more-ways-than-one).

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

What's your point ?

The FACT is that as soon as FG found out, he was history.

In stark contrast to FF.

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

Except if you're FF, in which case you back them all the way to the nearest tribunal or jail.

You've converted me, FG are pure as holy water, FF are as pure as the local water scheme.

You believing that they are whiter than white is funny but what even funnier is you thinking that I'm a FF man. I didnt say I was, I didnt vote in the last election, was traveling.

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

You've converted me, FG are pure as holy water, FF are as pure as the local water scheme.

No - FG are as pure as TREATED water (i.e. corruption removed when found) and FF are the local slurry tank.

Dempsey wrote: »

You believing that they are whiter than white is funny but what even funnier is you thinking that I'm a FF man. I didnt say I was, I didnt vote in the last election, was traveling.

Funny how you assumed that "you" was directed at you, but the "you" in the sentence before it was generic, simply because it referred to FG :

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Unfortunately, you can't ensure that people won't get corrupted, but when found out, you get rid of them.

If you're as neutral as you claim, why did you only pick one ?

Dempsey

Liam Byrne wrote: »

No - FG are as pure as TREATED water (i.e. corruption removed when found) and FF are the local slurry tank.



Funny how you assumed that "you" was directed at you, but the "you" in the sentence before it was generic, simply because it referred to FG :



If you're as neutral as you claim, why did you only pick one ?

In your innocent mind maybe. In my mind its a case of trying to see life in black and white when its different shades of grey. I'm sure you are a model citizen, declared all your income to the revenue and benefits in kind and just never committed a sin. Your filing an appeal against your original sin as we speak :pac:

You quoted me, when you quote me DIRECTLY I will assume "you" is referring to me. In future, be clearer with what you say, no?

Liam Byrne

Dempsey wrote: »

In your innocent mind maybe. In my mind its a case of trying to see life in black and white when its different shades of grey. I'm sure you are a model citizen, declared all your income to the revenue and benefits in kind and just never committed a sin. Your filing an appeal against your original sin as we speak :pac:

You quoted me, when you quote me DIRECTLY I will assume "you" is referring to me. In future, be clearer with what you say, no?

Hang on a second before you confuse yourself on that tangent of yours.

1 ) I quoted you directly - check.

2 ) I commented about how you get rid of corruption - check.

3 ) I commented about how you don't, if you are in FF - check.

What caused you to completely miss #2, despite it being between the quote and the comment that you [actual you] took exception to ?

I will assume "you" is referring to me

If this was true, then "you" could just as easily have assumed that #2 would have referred to "you". You didn't.

I used the word 3 times. All 3 times were generic and equivalent.

Maybe I should start using the Queen's English and say "one", but in all honesty that wouldn't help if "you" continue to skip and ignore complete sentences, and take exception to arbirtrary ones.

johngalway

Dempsey wrote: »

Fianna Gael

Has something really big happened that I missed...

skearon

Johnnymcg wrote: »

the labour party membership will not vote for a coalition with FF

Of course they will, plus Labour policies are closer to FF's than FG's

skearon

bucks4becks wrote: »

People should be ashamed of themselves for calling themselves members/supporters of this party.

No, its your that should be ashamed of yourself for such a statement about any democratic political party.

sesna

wicklowwonder wrote: »

What ever your beef with Ahern you cannot call the collective group of FF scum.

Yes you can and its completely justified

skearon

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You seriously reckon that Kenny is worse than Cowen ?

Or as corrupt as Ahern ?

Jeez! I must be reading the wrong facts about the last ten years, because while Kenny is certainly no saint and was inept at getting O'Donoghue his due, he's light years ahead of those two.

Kenny has no economic knowledge and no ability to make decisions in a crisis, God help us all if he was ever to make Taoiseach!

Bertie Ahern has not been found guilty of any crime, there is such thing as due process!

sesna

skearon wrote: »

Kenny has no economic knowledge and no ability to make decisions in a crisis, God help us all if he was ever to make Taoiseach!

Bertie Ahern has not been found guilty of any crime, there is such thing as due process!

Ah yes, Brian Cowen really steered the country well during his reign as Minister for Finance. And as for Bertie, of course we all know he won the money on a horse...

skearon

sesna wrote: »

Ah yes, Brian Cowen really steered the country well during his reign as Minister for Finance. And as for Bertie, of course we all know he won the money on a horse...

Proof is the favourable response by the international markets to the Government's economic policy and the budget

sesna

skearon wrote: »

Proof is the favourable response by the international markets to the Government's economic policy and the budget

Proof is that the only thing stopping our live register figures from exceeding half a million people is mass emigration. Yes great economic policy.

Biggins

sesna wrote: »

Proof is only thing stopping our live register figures from exceeding half a million people is mass emigration. Yes great economic policy.

I heard RTE quoting figures of 60,000 from a report published by The Economic and Social Research Institute for the year 2009.