Unlimited - O2's meaning

Senna

Why can a company advertised something as being unlimited, but have a limit in the terms and conditions?

On O2's iphone packages it states data allowance as being "Unlimited", but its not unlimited, is limited to 3gb. How can they get away with it?

Victor

Um, in the terms of internet usage "Unlimited" usually mean an unlimited number of hours or unlimited monthly* download total, not that the bandwidth is limited. What bandwidth is stated? Most terms and conditions will also have a provision against abuse, primarily in relation to constant streaming of torrents and the like.


* Usually monthly, whatever the billing period.

drunkmonkey

And it might only last for another 6 weeks, it's not unlimited it's 3gb, then bend over time, seriously any company that makes a living out of conning and tricking people isn't worth your time, another fine example of 02 bs. Happy with my unlocked iPhone, no bull**** included.

Cabaal

drunkmonkey wrote: »

And it might only last for another 6 weeks, it's not unlimited it's 3gb, then bend over time, seriously any company that makes a living out of conning and tricking people isn't worth your time, another fine example of 02 bs. Happy with my unlocked iPhone, no bull**** included.

If thats the case the OP better say away from Meteor, Vodafone, Three, O2, Tesco Mobile, Eircom, Smart, UPC, IFA Telecom, UTV, IBB, Digiweb, Blueface, Perlico, Imagine, Gaelic Telecom., Magnet, Pure, Skytel, TalkTalk...need I go on?

All telecom companys offer some sort of "uinlimited" voice or data package that isn't actually unlimited.

All those mobile free calls and texts offers are not actually unlimited usage dispite what you may think.

In relation to things like "Mobile Broadband", these types of networks are not meant as ADSL & Cable Broadband replacements as the technology has physical limitations

Its not a con or trick at the end of the day a telecoms company has to protect its network from abuse

wildefalcon

It's still limited.

So the OP is right.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055823946

Is another thread about this.

It has a link to the Advertising standards webpage for reporting poor advertising.

http://www.asai.ie/complain.asp

very simple to use.

The more people that complain, the more chance that it will be changed.

Afterall, why not just call it the "premier" plan, or the "ultimate" plan? They chose the word, and they chose "unlimited".

So they chose to lie to us, but we don't have to take it lying down, do we?

WildeFalcon.

Cabaal

I've always suggested people complaining to the ASAI about this if they feel so strongly....it is better use of their time then starting a thread on boards.ie complaining about it

Of course the ASAI understand a telecoms provider has to protect itself from abuse so its unlikely they'd rule that telecoms providers can't have Fair Usage Policys.

Until the day that the ASAI or COMREG say its illegal its not a stealing or lieing as itsw clearly outlined in the T&C's that a FUP applys and if you don't like this clause then don't sign up the the service and agree to the T&C's.

Its that simple

Cabaal

Cabaal wrote: »

I've always suggested people complaining to the ASAI about this if they feel so strongly....it is better use of their time then starting a thread on boards.ie complaining about it

Of course the ASAI understand a telecoms provider has to protect itself from abuse so its unlikely they'd rule that telecoms providers can't have Fair Usage Policys.

Until the day that the ASAI or COMREG say its illegal its not a stealing or lieing as itsw clearly outlined in the T&C's that a FUP applys and if you don't like this clause then don't sign up the the service and agree to the T&C's.

Its that simple

Absolutely. But the word: "unlimited" is not being used in it's proper context.

dictionary.com wrote:

un⋅lim⋅it⋅ed  [uhn-lim-i-tid]
–adjective
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.

They could use another term instead. I can't think of one that works in this situation, but then again, I'm not paid the big bucks by o2 to do the thinking for them!

Cabaal

Papa Smut wrote: »

Absolutely. But the word: "unlimited" is not being used in it's proper context.

Then if you believe this then complain to the ASAI/Comreg,

I've seen numerous threads in the Broadband forum about "Unlimited" Broadband packages and almost in each thread I'd suggest people complain to the ASAI.

Yet to date I don't believe I've seen anyone actual admit to doing so and posting what they sent the ASAI.

Fair enough I can understand people being annoyed but you can be annoyed all you want its not going to change anything unless you actually get your act together.

Of course on the other side of things I believe its extremely unlikely that the ASAI won't allow the use of the term unlimited as its used by companys the world over

whiterebel

Cabaal wrote: »

Then if you believe this then complain to the ASAI/Comreg,

I've seen numerous threads in the Broadband forum about "Unlimited" Broadband packages and almost in each thread I'd suggest people complain to the ASAI.

Yet to date I don't believe I've seen anyone actual admit to doing so and posting what they sent the ASAI.

Fair enough I can understand people being annoyed but you can be annoyed all you want its not going to change anything unless you actually get your act together.

Of course on the other side of things I believe its extremely unlikely that the ASAI won't allow the use of the term unlimited as its used by companys the world over

I did. Its being investigated. Its bending the language to suit themselves, and its not on. Find another word for it, or another way to describe it.

old_aussie

Even if the plan is "Unlimited", it's a known quantity.

If you get 3 Gig at full speed and use it in the first day, then it's retarded to 64Kb/sec after that for the next 29 days(working on a 30 day month).

So, 64Kb/sec which would be about 6.4Kb/sec to the desktop.

6.4Kb/s x 60 secs = 384 Kb per min

384kb/s x 60 mins = 23.04Mb per Hr

23.04Mb/Hr x 24 Hrs = 552.96 Mb per day

552.96Mb/day x 29 Days = 16,035.84 Mb or about 16Gig bal for the remaining 29 days.

Total for the month would be 19 Gig Download.

So why don't the sellers advertise the fact that your max for the month would be 19 Gig........WHY.......because UNLIMITED seems SO MUCH MORE than 19Gig.

cgarvey

Agreed, it should defeinitely be banned (by the ASAI voluntary, non-binding, code of practice at the very least).

With unlimited the customer has 3 choices:
1) Never know about the limit, and never reach it (which will apply to probably the majority of them.. although maybe not with home BB use of 3GB)
2) Never know about the limit until they've been overcharged (download 2 games on Steam and they're now well over the limit and subject to overages). I know of two people who have had overages applied to their bill without any warning from o2. I don't know how widespread it is, but the system is obviously in place to allow for that. (1 and 2.5GB over, respectively).
3) Have to search through legal speak to find out the actual limit.

2) and 3) alone should be enough to stop the use of the word (nevermind that it is "unlimited" for a majority of customers).

I encourage you to complain to the ASAI. I have and it didn't make much difference, but the more complaints the better. Once the numbers add up, they might reconsider their position; especially if you've fallen victim to the practice.

mickoneill30

Cabaal wrote: »

If thats the case the OP better say away from Meteor, Vodafone, Three, O2, Tesco Mobile, Eircom, Smart, UPC, IFA Telecom, UTV, IBB, Digiweb, Blueface, Perlico, Imagine, Gaelic Telecom., Magnet, Pure, Skytel, TalkTalk...need I go on?

You listed IBB there. They list their products as either with a cap or unlimited. The unlimited for them is unlimited. The Terrabytes of ehm "linux" downloads I've done over the years are proof of that

Cabaal

mickoneill30 wrote: »

You listed IBB there. They list their products as either with a cap or unlimited. The unlimited for them is unlimited. The Terrabytes of ehm "linux" downloads I've done over the years are proof of that

Its still not unlimited, every ISP has a limit as bandwidth costs money
You may not have been seen by their radar yet though

Sadly ISP's business models don't allow for truely unlimited data as I explain here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=58094826&postcount=11

However even if this does change I'd bet that "Unlimited" with FUP's will remain

wildefalcon

whiterebel wrote: »

I did. Its being investigated. Its bending the language to suit themselves, and its not on. Find another word for it, or another way to describe it.

I have reported this unusual use of unlimited to the ASAI.

It only took a few minutes. It is really easy.

I would encourage anyone with a problem with the use of "unlimited" to do the same.

Unless, of course, you are happy being walked on and being treated like a mug. In which case: do nothing.

WildeFalcon.

drunkmonkey

old_aussie wrote: »

Even if the plan is "Unlimited", it's a known quantity.

If you get 3 Gig at full speed and use it in the first day, then it's retarded to 64Kb/sec after that for the next 29 days(working on a 30 day month).

So, 64Kb/sec which would be about 6.4Kb/sec to the desktop.

6.4Kb/s x 60 secs = 384 Kb per min

384kb/s x 60 mins = 23.04Mb per Hr

23.04Mb/Hr x 24 Hrs = 552.96 Mb per day

552.96Mb/day x 29 Days = 16,035.84 Mb or about 16Gig bal for the remaining 29 days.

Total for the month would be 19 Gig Download.

So why don't the sellers advertise the fact that your max for the month would be 19 Gig........WHY.......because UNLIMITED seems SO MUCH MORE than 19Gig.

You have me lost there, o2 are offering 3GB per month, How did you get to 19GB a month? Am I missing something? And what with them retarding your bandwidth? Is it an australian thing?

Senna

It's quite simple, they advertise "unlimited" but in the small print they state a limit of 3gb.
I dont really care about "high costs" and "they have to cover themselves" etc. they dont have to advertise it as unlimited, they can advertise it at the maximum allowance, in this case 3GB.

Have to wonder about people standing up for these companies, no wonder they think they can advertise whatever they want and feck the consumers.








p.s thanks for the link above, complaint sent.

Forest Master

Cabaal wrote: »

Its still not unlimited, every ISP has a limit as bandwidth costs money

I'm with Magnet, and it's unlimited.

old_aussie

drunkmonkey wrote: »

You have me lost there, o2 are offering 3GB per month, How did you get to 19GB a month? Am I missing something? And what with them retarding your bandwidth? Is it an australian thing?

Yeah, in Oz they advertise unlimited, after you use your say 3 Gig they slow(retard) the connection down to 64Kbps and you can continue to download 24/7 at the 64Kbps which translates to about 6.4 kbps to the desktop.

The 19Gig is the 3Gig used up in say the first 24 hrs at full speed and the bal of 16 Gig if you continue downloading 24/7 for the rest of the month(remaining 29 days)

16 Gig is the most you can download at 6.4 Kbps to the desktop if you download 24 Hrs a day for the remaining 29 days.

It's like being on dial-up.

Jeez, I can be as clear as mud sometimes. lol

Mountjoy Mugger

Cabaal wrote: »

However even if this does change I'd bet that "Unlimited" with FUP's will remain

That means it's limited.

Cabaal, you really do take the pi$$ sometimes!

Cabaal

Forest Master wrote: »

I'm with Magnet, and it's unlimited.

Really?
http://magnet.ie/index.php/Products/ftth-ultimate.html
*Fair Usage Applys to every package listed

Which packare are you on?

Mountjoy Mugger wrote: »

That means it's limited.

Then once again let me state that all based on your view all "Unlimited" packages by the following Meteor, Vodafone, Three, O2, Tesco Mobile, Eircom, Smart, UPC, IFA Telecom, UTV, IBB, Digiweb, Blueface, Perlico, Imagine, Gaelic Telecom., Magnet, Pure, Skytel, TalkTalk...etc are also limited

I'm not taking the piss I'm just stating the fact that you will never see a truely uinlimited package with no FUP attached to it, the FUP stops people really abusing the providers network

I'm not defending any providers in respect of this I'm just stating how things currently are

CoNfOuNd

I don't blame these companies for having Fair Usage Policy at all. It's only right that they protect themselves, as long as the actual usage limits in their T&Cs are genuinely fair!

In cases where a normal user could easily go over the limit, they shouldn't be advertising it as unlimited.

old_aussie wrote: »

Yeah, in Oz they advertise unlimited, after you use your say 3 Gig they slow(retard) the connection down

It might be more politically correct to say that they 'throttle' the connection speed. Lol

Forest Master

Cabaal wrote: »

Really?
http://magnet.ie/index.php/Products/ftth-ultimate.html
*Fair Usage Applys to every package listed

Which packare are you on?

Yeah, no limit. I download & upload constantly - connection is always active, and never had any complaints from them re bandwidth or usage.
Although lately I do think they're messing around with some type of protocol filters/restrictions. Internet runs fine & torrents run fine: but not at the same time. The second I launch uTorrent, my browser times-out when trying to load pages. Not a major issue, as I usually only run uTorrent when I'm not surfing - but I know they've done something to cause this...

It's a business connection; 12MB download, 1MB upload.

Slice

Why would you need a 'fair usage policy' on an unlimited product? How can you abuse an offer that's unlimited?

wingnut

I compained in writing to the ASAI when Vodafone brought out their 'unlimited' package two years back. I olutlined why it cleary has limits and therefore should not be advertised as unlimited. I got a letter saying they forwarded the query to Vodafone.

In the end they were happy at Vodafones use of the term unlimlited in the context of a fair use policy.

If you ask me its a load BS. How on earch can anyone justify advertising a clearly limited service as 'unlimited' and get away it???? It boggles the mind!!!

I would be the equivalent of a car manufacturer saying "UNLIMITED MILAGE 3 YEAR WARRANTY"*

*subject to a limit of 50,000 miles

Woudln't happen.

ShooterSF

I think Ill open a bar. 20 euro in and UNLIMITED FREE DRINKS (subject to a fair usage policy of 2 drinks. Further drinks cost 15 euro. Minimum contract of 12 months. If you wish to leave the premises before the 12 months is up there's a cancellation fee of 200 euro)

Atlantic Dawn

Most broadband providers have a limit of between 20-30gb per month, to advertise unlimited for the Iphone would certainly give the assumption that it was at the very least this amount of more.

Cabaal

Forest Master wrote: »

Yeah, no limit.

If it has a FUP then it has a limit, you just haven't abused it enough to find out

It's a business connection; 12MB download, 1MB upload.

Business connections are different to residential packages, always have been so you can't compare like with like when its nothing alike

Slice wrote: »

Why would you need a 'fair usage policy' on an unlimited product? How can you abuse an offer that's unlimited?

Because there is no such thing as a unlimited product when it comes to data transfers, thats why they will always have a FUP

Nonoperational

Cabaal wrote: »

If thats the case the OP better say away from Meteor, Vodafone, Three, O2, Tesco Mobile, Eircom, Smart, UPC, IFA Telecom, UTV, IBB, Digiweb, Blueface, Perlico, Imagine, Gaelic Telecom., Magnet, Pure, Skytel, TalkTalk...need I go on?

All telecom companys offer some sort of "uinlimited" voice or data package that isn't actually unlimited.

All those mobile free calls and texts offers are not actually unlimited usage dispite what you may think.

In relation to things like "Mobile Broadband", these types of networks are not meant as ADSL & Cable Broadband replacements as the technology has physical limitations

Its not a con or trick at the end of the day a telecoms company has to protect its network from abuse

Are you feeling alright? 3Gb and your defending it being called unlimited?

Cabaal

gpf101 wrote: »

Are you feeling alright? 3Gb and your defending it being called unlimited?

My point in this thread is you have people complaining about O2 when what O2 are doing is no different to every other telecoms provider, basically if people are unhappy complaining about this one company is not the way to go.

I'm trying to help people understand the much wider picture that exists instead of people just thinking this is something to do with O2.

I've never actually said I agree or disagree

parsi

Yes, but a FUP is a limit.

Let's call a spade a spade and say the limit is 3GB. It's clear - just like on fixed lines. Why go calling a spade a shovel and having a FUP which is a roundabout way of saying that the spade you bought is actually a spade whilst the advertising promises you entry into the wonderful world of shovels ?

Cabaal

parsi wrote: »

Yes, but a FUP is a limit.

Let's call a spade a spade and say the limit is 3GB. It's clear - just like on fixed lines. Why go calling a spade a shovel and having a FUP which is a roundabout way of saying that the spade you bought is actually a spade whilst the advertising promises you entry into the wonderful world of shovels ?

I understand where your coming from but O2 have done nothing wrong until the ASAI say otherwise, at present and up until they change the ASAI see's an unlimited product (be it voice, data or text) with a FUP as acceptable and perfectly fine

You can give as many examples about spades and shovels and the meaning of unlimited in the dictionary but until the ASAI or the likes of Comreg rule otherwise your examples are sadly pretty meaningless

An FUP isn't always a set limit persay but it is required by every network provider so they can protect themselfs from abuse, thats why every residential provider will have it in some form or another....your welcome to find one that doesn't of course

wildefalcon

The ASAI have just written to me, thye have upheld my complaint and found that o2 have been doing something wrong with regard to the unlimited plan.

They have been in breach of the Code of advertising and have been instructed to change their website.

RESULT!!

WildeFalcon.

Davy

Wont the same apply to eircom, upc, vodafone etc now then. Probably all have to make complaints :rolleyes:

Cabaal

Davy wrote: »

Wont the same apply to eircom, upc, vodafone etc now then. Probably all have to make complaints :rolleyes:

Logic would suggest the same applys to everyone else, of course logic may not apply in this instance

whiterebel

wildefalcon wrote: »

The ASAI have just written to me, thye have upheld my complaint and found that o2 have been doing something wrong with regard to the unlimited plan.

They have been in breach of the Code of advertising and have been instructed to change their website.

RESULT!!

WildeFalcon.

Same here, I got the email yesterday.

drunkmonkey

Great result, I don't have a problem with companies using unlimited and sticking in a fair usage policy if it's within reason, but 3gb is far from unlimited . It was blatant misleading by o2.