Free thinking books for kids?

Zamboni

Someone close to me is being confirmed.

I've told the person I'll give a card and some dosh but that its just a present from me and nothing to do with the confo.
But I was hoping to include some form of book that would encourage free thinking and the ability to be objectively critical of various theologies etc.

I would appreciate if anyone had a recommendation for a book of this kind for the 10-12 year old. I'm not looking for anti-theist books just something that would encourage a questioning mind.

Thanks

Zombrex

can't think of any off the top of my head, though it would be a good idea

I enjoyed Sophie's World when I was young but it gets kind of silly near the end, going into the "question" of if different characters in books contained in books etc are "real" ... sort of veers towards the more supernatural end of philosophy, which even as a kid I found deeply unsatisfying (was on my way to atheism at that stage)

Too young for the God Delusion? :P

Dades

Confirmation age is just old enough to enjoy the "His Dark Materials" trilogy.
Kids fantasy with a little anti-organised religion flavour to it.

My kids will be getting this for a bedtime story.

Stroke Politics

There's a whole slew of books produced under the Philosophy for Children banner.

This is one site I suggest....
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/omc/kidsphil/stories.html

Rev Hellfire

Buy them a subscription to the nation geographic or some other magazine which provide insights into science and other cultures.

Personally I don't think its another persons place to be attempting to indoctrinate another parents child, while both Dades and Wicknights suggestions are good books. Neither books can be said to not have a certain bias.

Ickle Magoo

Rather than risk the wrath of the child's parents by deliberately giving an atheistic or book about religion or lack of to their child as they celebrate a religious festival for her, why not get her something a little less obvious?

What about Philip Pullman's trilogy "His Dark Materials" - which is child fiction but has often been associated with a commentary on religions. (You can hand it over safe in the knowledge that Hitchens claims Pullman actively persues an anti-Christian agenda in his writing).

Zamboni

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Personally I don't think its another persons place to be attempting to indoctrinate another parents child

I just want to merely illustrate that their are other options and encourage the ability to critically think for themselves.
I certainly don't want to shove atheism/anti-theism down their throats.

Thanks for the suggestions folks!

Dades

Fwiw, the His Dark Materials books are fantastic books first, social commentary second.

Ickle Magoo

Yep, great stories & I think you really have to be looking for a link to find it. There's a kind of CS Lewis quality about them, in that respect. The books are so much better than the film, I was really disappointed when I saw it!

Plowman

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Dades

^^ If anything the final themes were spiritual. The book deals with religious elements, but I would consider labeling the final scenes as 'religious' as somewhat missing the point! (Use spoilers please if getting specific ).

Sesshoumaru

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

Buy them a subscription to the nation geographic or some other magazine which provide insights into science and other cultures.

Personally I don't think its another persons place to be attempting to indoctrinate another parents child, while both Dades and Wicknights suggestions are good books. Neither books can be said to not have a certain bias.

+1

My Aunt bought me several years of National Geographic subscriptions when I was a kid. Looking back that certainly helped shape the person I am today!

achtungbarry

I think the children's version of Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything would be an excellent choice to encourage free thinking and a spirit of enquiry. The 'grown up' version of the book certainly had that effect on me.

There is nothing overtly 'atheist' about the book so is unlikely to cause offence or tension in the family but it opens up a wonderful world of scientific discovery and learning and encourages an enquiring mind. It is beautifully illustrated too.

Here it is on Amazon

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Really-Short-History-Nearly-Everything/dp/0385614802/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265720512&sr=8-4

The Mad Hatter

Richard Dawkins has one coming out soon, but I can't remember the title. It's being illustrated by Dave McKean, and should be bought on that merit alone.

Undergod

His Dark Materials. It's not even children's books by the end, it's just downright wonderful literature.

Dades

The Mad Hatter wrote: »

Richard Dawkins has one coming out soon...

I think giving a Richard Dawkins book is a real statement of intent. :pac:

L31mr0d

The Complete Calvin and Hobbes Collection

I read it first as a child, then again as a teenager and then recently again as an adult and each time it has grown in depth and meaning to me.

Ickle Magoo

Plowman wrote: »

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I didn't get anything so blatantly anti-anything from his books but they certainly kicked up a stink from certain quarters...

http://www.christian-teachers.org.uk/newscomment/31

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=4004&CFID=15086469&CFTOKEN=13435533

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0331.htm

Go figure.

robindch

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/arts/al0331.htm

A bit trippy to see an article titled "Philip Pullman and the Seduction of Children" on a catholic website...

Ickle Magoo

Isn't it just! :pac:

Plowman

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Dades

Plowman wrote: »

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Au contraire, the

evil-doers in the book are known as "The Magisterium", which in our universe is the "teaching authority of the Roman Catholic Church".

Couldn't be more obvious!

What is obvious to adults (apart from the reviewers on those sites!) who read the book is Pullman's contempt for organised religion over human love and values.

Plowman

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Dades

Plowman wrote: »

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Don't worry - I'm a fanboy!

Plowman wrote: »

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The main thing not to lose sight of is that the books, especially for kids, are a real treat. Beautiful writing, amazing characters and a splendid alternative to the PS3.

Plowman

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Dades

Plowman wrote: »

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Arguable... but George RR Martin is better again...

Undergod

Plowman wrote: »

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Objectively incorrect!

Dades wrote: »

Arguable... but George RR Martin is better again...

I can barely think of a fantasy series that's less suitable for a confirmation present!

Ickle Magoo

Plowman wrote: »

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Well, he has pointed out in numerous interviews exactly what he means.

...Dust is my metaphor for all the things that your atheist materialist friend no doubt believes in as firmly as I do: human wisdom, science and art, all the accumulated and transmissible achievements of the human mind.

and

As for 'spirit', 'spiritual', 'spirituality' - these are words I never use, because I can see nothing real that seems to correspond with them: they have no meaning. I would never begin to talk of a person's spiritual life, or refer to someone's profound spirituality, or anything of that sort, because it doesn't make sense to me. When other people talk about spirituality I can see nothing in it, in reality, except a sense of vague uplift combined at one end with genuine goodness and modesty, and at the other with self-righteousness and pride.

There's a full length copy of the interview here...

http://filmchatblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/philip-pullman-extended-e-mail.html

Daftendirekt

+1 for His Dark Materials.

It's almost like Narnia for non-believers.

Plowman

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Ickle Magoo

I was about to say the same.

I guess you can choose to have any interpretation of his stories that you want - you can completely ignore why he says he wrote them and what he says he was meaning if it gives you pleasure.

Valmont

I read his Dark Materials when I was 13/14 and I still haven't found any books that I love quite as much. Absolutely epic. Don't forget that a kid isn't going to be thinking "hmm... I wonder if this is some sort of allegory?".

Zillah

Am I the only one who didn't like His Dark Materials? Do they get better as they go along? I read the first one and finished it with total disinterest by the end.

Ickle Magoo

The first book wasn't my favourite but if you didn't like Northern Lights, then I don't think you'll like the rest, story aside, they are very similar.

Daftendirekt

Zillah wrote: »

Am I the only one who didn't like His Dark Materials? Do they get better as they go along? I read the first one and finished it with total disinterest by the end.

Yes, they do get better. The first one barely even gives you a taster of the hours of blasphemous fun which follow.

Dades

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

The first book wasn't my favourite but if you didn't like Northern Lights, then I don't think you'll like the rest, story aside, they are very similar.

I respectfully disagree! The second and particularly third books are what make the trilogy a masterpiece of fantasy writing. The themes grow along with the protagonists, and the different layers create something epic.

There are books written just about what these three books mean!

Coriolanus

Dades wrote: »

Arguable... but George RR Martin is better again...

Crown of Stars or Malazan is even better again. :P

Anyway +1 for the idea to buy a sub to Nat Geo. The Pullman books are great and all, but they'll be done with inside a couple of months, whereas the sub will still be there this time next year.
I know what I'd want!

Valmont

After six years I did not renew my subscription to the National Geographic. I was sick to death of hearing the constant forecasts of absolute doom and destruction that accompanied every article.

"These bees are pretty cool huh? Well, don't look so happy, they will be extinct in one year unless..."

I'm not arguing against their various standpoints but it has got to the stage where reading the articles is just depressing and repetitive.

Ickle Magoo

Dades wrote: »

I respectfully disagree! The second and particularly third books are what make the trilogy a masterpiece of fantasy writing. The themes grow along with the protagonists, and the different layers create something epic.

There are books written just about what these three books mean!

Oh I agree, I loved the series, the stories, the themes but then, I didn't finish the first book with total disinterest. The other books are written in the same style, obviously, so I am sceptical that someone who finds the first book boring is going to suddenly find sequels which follow the same characters & storyline from the first un-put-downable (?) - hope I'm proved wrong!

robindch

I'd go with the National Geographic too. Great photography and from time to time, the slightest whiff of an an Amazonian nipple too. These things were necessary in the days down the country before the intertubes showed up.

BTW, I recall that my parents acquired, at some point during their parenting career, a copy of David Bergamini's brilliant Time-Life book on Mathematics:

http://www.librarything.com/work/310080

It's not in print any more, no doubt on account of the prehistoric section on computers as much as anything else ("The core memory in the picture above (about the size of a shoe-box) stores as many as 1024 bits!"). However, it left me with a maths books habit that I've never really managed to kick.

Daftendirekt

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Oh I agree, I loved the series, the stories, the themes but then, I didn't finish the first book with total disinterest. The other books are written in the same style, obviously, so I am sceptical that someone who finds the first book boring is going to suddenly find sequels which follow the same characters & storyline from the first un-put-downable (?) - hope I'm proved wrong!

The stories are so different though. While I also enjoyed the first book, it reads as a much more straightforward fantasy/adventure story than the other two. It's only in The Subtle Knife that things start to get really interesting.

Ickle Magoo

Daftendirekt wrote: »

The stories are so different though. While I also enjoyed the first book, it reads as a much more straightforward fantasy/adventure story than the other two. It's only in The Subtle Knife that things start to get really interesting.

I did say "story aside" they are similar ie character and style - but you are right, each book should be judged on it's own merit. :cool:

Daftendirekt

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I did say "story aside" they are similar ie character and style - but you are right, each book should be judged on it's own merit. :cool:

I may have missed that. My bad.

Good to the series is quite popular anyway.

The Mad Hatter

Zillah wrote: »

Am I the only one who didn't like His Dark Materials? Do they get better as they go along? I read the first one and finished it with total disinterest by the end.

Felt the same way when I read the first book - haven't tried the other two yet, but I'm willing to give the whole series another shot.

robindch

I'm with The Mad Hatter and Zillah on this one.

The books didn't really do much for me, and I had Mr Pullman hisself reading them on audiobook. I think I made it around half way through either the second or third book, then gave up as I found the characters seemed to lose direction completely, while the amount of irrelevant prose, characters and scenes grew to truly terrifying proportions.

Nice idea, poor implementation and I think I'll stick with Iain Banks.

Ickle Magoo

Iain Banks rocks - he went to the same school as my Dad & now lives down the road from my Auntie!

Turtwig

Who's Iain Banks?
*Is too lazy to google. Just wanted to express ignorance of not knowing or hearing of him .*

Ickle Magoo

*feigns shock & horror* :pac:

He's a Scottish science fiction writer, supporter of Scottish independence, Honorary Associate of the National Secular Society and a Distinguished Supporter of the Humanist Society of Scotland.

See more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_Banks

robindch

Malty_T wrote: »

Who's Iain Banks?

As Ickle Magoo says, he's a Scottish author who's produced some of the most thoughtful, not to say coolest, science-fiction and non-scifi literature in the last 30 years.

IMHO, his best stuff is in Consider Phlebas, The Player of Games, The Bridge, Use of Weapons and Inversions.

IMNSHO, Banks leaves Pullman in the dust, especially with respect to humor which Pullman avoids as though toxic.

Coriolanus

I just thought of something.

Buy the kid a bible and make him read it.

Sure fire recipe for awkward questions to mommy and daddy.

Dades

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

Iain Banks rocks

I only know him as Iain M Banks - and yes he does rock!

I spent a good part of last year reading his "Culture" novels.