Bowling? It can be a right pain in the.. er stomach?

DamoDLK

Just saw this on the Irish Times web page, unbelievable, to be honest.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2010/0209/1224264030669.html

Security guard went too far maybe? or was he right? hardly the crime of the century!

EDIT*
TWO IRISHMEN are recovering from gunshot wounds in a New York hospital after being shot by a security guard in a dispute over smoking at a bowling alley.

Gerard Hourigan from Limerick and Justin Donaghy from Navan, both age 29, were smoking indoors in a bowling alley in Queens at about 1.45am on Saturday when Michael Iavecchio (54), the bowling alley’s security guard, told them to leave.

Mr Iavecchio then escorted them outside and a fight ensued. The guard, a retired policeman, pulled out his .380 calibre Ruger semi-automatic pistol and shot Mr Hourigan on the right side of the torso and Mr Donaghy in the stomach.

“This has been an enormous trauma,” said a young American woman who identified herself as Mr Hourigan’s wife. She was reached by telephone at the Elmhurst Hospital in Queens, where the two men are recovering.

A police spokeswoman said the Irishmen will be arrested and arraigned by a local judge on charges of menacing as soon as they are released from hospital. She said their punishment will be up to the court. Their lives are not in danger.

“They’re charged with a misdemeanour, not a crime,” said James Patrick Delaney, the Irishmen’s lawyer. “They had no weapon and they didn’t cause any injury. They both have clean records in Ireland and the US. They are both married to American girls. They’re hard-working and they’re both here legally. Their families have come over from Ireland since the incident.” Mr Delaney says he owns pubs in New York and Dublin and that smoking “is not an issue. I’ve never seen anybody get in a fight about it.” The AMF 34th Avenue Lanes bowling alley in Jackson Heights, Queens, is described by the New York Times as being located on “a desolate commercial strip just south of Northern Boulevard”. It has 35 lanes, billiard tables and a snack bar and was described in the New York Daily News as “family-oriented”.

Mr Iavecchio was a policeman for 18 years before retiring in 1999. He had an unrestricted licence to carry a concealed weapon. His last posting was in the prison ward of the Kings County Hospital Centre. He has been charged with two counts of second-degree assault. The police spokeswoman said Mr Iavecchio was detained by police who went to the scene of the shooting, but she did not know if he was still being held.

The altercation between Mr Iavecchio and the two Irishmen was recorded by a surveillance camera

monosharp

</inevitiable comment> smoking kills :pac: </I'll leave now>

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

monosharp wrote: »

</inevitiable comment> smoking kills :pac: </I'll leave now>

You know, I was here earlier, nobody had replied. It's 5:45 in the morning, I have a good chance to get in the first reply and why don't I make a funny post I thought to myself. Then it occured to me, I had this chance many times before, let somebody else have a shot. Right now i'm not sure if I made the right choice or not... :P

seanybiker

Alexandra Bitter Teller wrote: »

You know, I was here earlier, nobody had replied. It's 5:45 in the morning, I have a good chance to get in the first reply and why don't I make a funny post I thought to myself. Then it occured to me, I had this chance many times before, let somebody else have a shot. Right now i'm not sure if I made the right choice or not... :P

it was a bad choice to be honest. Had a look in here a few minutes ago and decided that the generic (i cant think of anything to say) post just made me tut and click new posts a few times.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

seanybiker wrote: »

it was a bad choice to be honest. Had a look in here a few minutes ago and decided that the generic (i cant think of anything to say) post just made me tut and click new posts a few times.

Was thinking that, but I doubt I would have done any better :P

Overheal

Two late 20s Irishmen in their prime (I assume they knew how to handle themselves fair decently) Start fighting with a Retired Mid 50s Security guard?

Yeah I'd have pulled the revolver on them too. I doubt he was carrying anything else he could have used to defend himself with - besides his shoes.

Without seeing the tape though its hard to say how the play by play went. I'd be interested to watch though o_0

edit: the NYT divulges more
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/nyregion/07shoot.html

A retired New York City correction captain working security at a Queens bowling alley shot and wounded two men during a violent confrontation early Saturday morning outside the alley, the authorities said.

The retired officer, Michael Iavecchio, 54, was charged with two counts of second-degree assault after the 1:50 a.m. shooting outside the AMF 34th Avenue Lanes, at 6910 34th Avenue in Jackson Heights, the police said.

The two wounded men, both 29, were in stable condition at Elmhurst Hospital Center in Queens on Saturday, the police said. The police did not identify them.

The violence unfolded after Mr. Iavecchio, who was armed, asked the men to leave because they were smoking cigarettes in a vestibule, according to the police. Mr. Iavecchio then escorted the men outside, where the ensuing fight and shooting were captured on a surveillance video, a law enforcement official said.

According to the official, words were exchanged and the two men “put their hands” on Mr. Iavecchio. He pulled out a .380-caliber Ruger pistol, but the men “go back at him and he shoots,” the official said.

Mr. Iavecchio fired two shots; one bullet hit one of the men in the chest and the other hit the second man in the stomach, the police said.

The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation was still open, said that detectives were conferring with prosecutors from Queens County, and that it was unclear whether the two wounded men would also be charged with a crime. Detectives at the 115th Precinct station house were reviewing the video. The official added that Mr. Iavecchio had an active and unrestricted license to carry a concealed weapon.

“So his permit is valid,” the official said.

A woman who answered the telephone at the bowling alley on Saturday declined to comment.

“I don’t want to answer any questions,” she said. “I’d rather let my boss deal with that.”

Matthew Carroll, a manager at the bowling alley, referred questions to corporate officials in Virginia, but several calls to those offices were not returned.

The bowling alley is on a desolate commercial strip just south of Northern Boulevard. It has 35 lanes for bowling, as well as billiard tables and a snack bar.

On Saturday afternoon, about half the lanes were occupied with youth bowling teams and families and friends bowling together. One worker said that uniformed police officers had been in the alley on Saturday morning.

“We feel very safe, very secure here,” said Lorna Rainey, who came to the bowling alley on Saturday to see her daughter’s bowling coach. “It’s a great, all-American sport, and it’s a good place for kids to play it.”

Stephen J. Morello, a spokesman for the Department of Correction, said that Mr. Iavecchio retired on July 19, 1999, after an 18-year career.

“He retired voluntarily,” Mr. Morello said.

Mr. Iavecchio held the rank of captain when he retired, and his last assignment was working in the Kings County Hospital Center prison ward, Mr. Morello said. Further details about Mr. Iavecchio’s work history were not immediately available, he added.

Obviously the investigation would say for sure but at the moment it sounds as though they grabbed him; he pulled the gun; they backed up; he warned them off; they chose to attack him anyway; then he shot in defense.

Pdfile

retired police officer so he is...


but why a ruger... i thought even with his age they all had Glocks...


OT: meh, they got pissy and hissy with him, he pulled the gun, they'll moan b1tch and complain, the gaurd will get sacked and they'll have a bit of swagger with the birds now " oh yeah, did you see my gun wound, got it when fighting chuck norris, Ghandi, the wu tang clan and hitler all at the same time while given birth. "


the two lads sound like muppets anyways. Nobody smokes indoors these days.

IrishManSaipan

Pdfile wrote: »

Nobody smokes indoors these days.

Yeah, you would think that alright.

*sparks up smoke..... ah, breakfast*

minidazzler

Pdfile wrote: »

retired police officer so he is...


but why a ruger... i thought even with his age they all had Glocks...
.

Nah, even older detectives and whatnot in NYC get to keep their .38's.

Just look at Lenny Briscoe!

Pdfile

minidazzler wrote: »

Nah, even older detectives and whatnot in NYC get to keep their .38's.

Just look at Lenny Briscoe!

Charles bronson i think you be thinkin about

wait... he had a Wildey .475

http://forum.pafoa.org/imagehosting/2515483bf264bc144.jpg

Nvm

Joey the lips

Overheal wrote: »

Two late 20s Irishmen in their prime (I assume they knew how to handle themselves fair decently) Start fighting with a Retired Mid 50s Security guard?

Yeah I'd have pulled the revolver on them too. I doubt he was carrying anything else he could have used to defend himself with - besides his shoes.

Without seeing the tape though its hard to say how the play by play went. I'd be interested to watch though o_0

edit: the NYT divulges more
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/nyregion/07shoot.html
Obviously the investigation would say for sure but at the moment it sounds as though they grabbed him; he pulled the gun; they backed up; he warned them off; they chose to attack him anyway; then he shot in defense.

+1 But they are Irish and were prob pissed and incapable of fighting....Oh wait....Lawless Ireland TV3 comes to me. Yes I would love to see the tape.

DamoDLK

Overheal wrote: »

...Yeah I'd have pulled the revolver on them too. I doubt he was carrying anything else he could have used to defend himself with - besides his shoes...

Agreed but shooting them was excessive, if the security guard had used mace, it could have had the same effect but less force.

IrishManSaipan

DamoDLK wrote: »

Agreed but shooting them was excessive, if the security guard had used mace, it could have had the same effect but less force.

He didnt have mace........

chakotha

Two torso shots. And they were unarmed. The guy's a looper.

jackiebaron

chakotha wrote: »

Two torso shots. And they were unarmed. The guy's a looper.

I agree. If they were drunk he could have easily overpowered them. A punch in the jaw or a push to the chest is normally enough to down a guy who's intoxicated. Also what do they train bowling alley security guards to expect? I would imagine they are trained to expect trouble from punk kids harassing girls and staff, and also to expect the normal trouble that comes from those who have consumed too much alcohol...you know, the kind of trouble a barman or bouncer can expect. That being the case why is this fool carrying a concealed firearm? And a fairly deadly .38 calibre one at that? It's not like he's a bank security guard, or someone's bodyguard or anything. The most he can expect is rowdiness. A can of mace and a few wrestling moves are all this guy should be armed with. Maybe a night-stick for the really agressive punters. This guy could have killed these two men and made widows of their wives purely out of his own trigger-happy sense of machismo. Worse still he could have paralysed them, ruining two young men's lives and consigning their wives to a lifetime of caring for their crippled husbands.
Don't get me wrong, these two lads were probably acting the bollox, what with refusing to stop smoking inside, being drunk and harassing the guard when they were ejected, etc. Maybe they are a pair of **** in general but even so this guard shot them because he wanted to, not because his life was in danger.
There are probably a dozen ways this fool could have dealt with this situation without resorting to drawing a friggin gun and shooting them.

I hope the company he works for has some serious indemnity insurance. He has already been charged with two counts of assault. No matter how that plays out the civil suit that follows should see both the bowling alley and the security company digging deep into their pockets to pay compensation.

DamoDLK

IrishManSaipan wrote: »

He didnt have mace........

Ah yeah I know! but do you not think that mace would have been more suiting to a security guard job in a bowling alley than a gun!?!

Dyr

If they were drunk he could have easily overpowered them

Is there some kind of special school of stupid statements that people go to nowadays? Jesus wept

jackiebaron

Another thing that doesn't smell right about this. Iavecchio was a prison officer which is a fairly well paid gig what with overtime etc. Not the most glamourous of jobs, after all, who would sentence THEMSELVES to a lifetime in prison?? ... but the pay and benefits are decent enough. Now apparently this Iavecchio guy resigned voluntarily after 18 years. He didn't wait to get his twenty year pension....he quit to go into the exciting world of bowling alley security which probably pays $9 per hour.
Could it be that he was given the opportunity to peacefully resign as a result of some of his actions? Did he have a mean and sadistic streak that the department of corrections thought might be a ticking time bomb?

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.

jackiebaron

Bambi wrote: »

Is there some kind of special school of stupid statements that people go to nowadays? Jesus wept

Ah yes, another condescending little troll wandering the halls of cyberspace clipping various statements and adding his/her snide remark like a dog rambling from tree to tree cocking a leg and adding a few little droplets of piss.

AnonoBoy

When Inspector Harry Callahan asks you to stop smoking, you goddamn stop smoking punk!

Dr_Teeth

jackiebaron wrote: »

Ah yes, another condescending little troll wandering the halls of cyberspace clipping various statements and adding his/her snide remark like a dog rambling from tree to tree cocking a leg and adding a few little droplets of piss.

From your Join Date and attitude, I'd say this is a new account to get around a ban. Good luck with that.

Mr. Incognito

Hold on he was from Limerick- was probably his gun.

Winty

This pair of tramps started a fight with a member of staff because he was doing his job stopping them from smoking.
One of the brothers said "Gerard is a grand, pleasant lad, who would never cause harm to anyone. This seems to be a very isolated incident with Gerard in the wrong place at the wrong time."

He was smoking against the law in a public building how is this the wrong place at the wrong time?

With a bit of luck the yanks will kick both of them out as a example to all the "Paddys" in Woodlawn.

IvySlayer

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

Hold on he was from Limerick- was probably his gun.

They had to pin it on something...

Minstrel27

jackiebaron wrote: »

Ah yes, another condescending little troll wandering the halls of cyberspace clipping various statements and adding his/her snide remark like a dog rambling from tree to tree cocking a leg and adding a few little droplets of piss.

In fairness it was an odd comment. If they were absolutely hammered then yes it would have been easy to overpower them.

General Zod

OVER THE LINE!

arybvtcw0eolkf

jackiebaron wrote: »

A can of mace and a few wrestling moves are all this guy should be armed with. Maybe a night-stick for the really agressive punters.

The funny thing about this is your probably serious!.

Two attackers -V- one man with a gun is pretty even odd's I'd say, and fair play to the guy for having the balls to squeeze off a few.

mikom

IvySlayer wrote: »

They had to pin it on something...

It's hard to believe the guard went so spare.
Not a permanent employee I reckon, I'd say he was just ten Pin.
Anyway, in solidarity the whole bowling alley is on strike until this mess gets sorted out.

bonerm

Strike and a double.... nice.

the_syco

DamoDLK wrote: »

Mr Iavecchio was a policeman for 18 years before retiring in 1999. He had an unrestricted licence to carry a concealed weapon. His last posting was in the prison ward of the Kings County Hospital Centre. He has been charged with two counts of second-degree assault. The police spokeswoman said Mr Iavecchio was detained by police who went to the scene of the shooting, but she did not know if he was still being held.

jackiebaron wrote: »

but the pay and benefits are decent enough. Now apparently this Iavecchio guy resigned voluntarily after 18 years. He didn't wait to get his twenty year pension....he quit to go into the exciting world of bowling alley security which probably pays $9 per hour.

Sounds like he left before he got fired...

BluePlanet

I highly doubt the irish lads were threatening the guys life ffs.
Doubtless an ameriacan court won't see it that way tho.

IvySlayer

mikom wrote: »

It's hard to believe the guard went so spare.
Not a permanent employee I reckon, I'd say he was just ten Pin.
Anyway, in solidarity the whole bowling alley is on strike until this mess gets sorted out.

I heard there were riots so the police had to get the bumpers out. :pac:

mikom

IvySlayer wrote: »

I heard there were riots so the police had to get the bumpers out. :pac:

Fuckin' gutter snipes the lot of them.

jackiebaron

Keenan Moldy Memory wrote: »

The funny thing about this is your probably serious!.

Two attackers -V- one man with a gun is pretty even odd's I'd say, and fair play to the guy for having the balls to squeeze off a few.

Whoa!! Just back up there for a minute and put this in some kind of perspective. This situation didn't involve a guy walking home late at night through a dodgy neighbourhood and being set upon by two muggers brandishing knives and demanding his wallet or else they'll carve him up.

Let's just say this incident never happened. Are you getting the picture yet? You have a security guard at a BOWLING ALLEY...you know where families go to have a laugh. Where teenage kids go to flirt with each other and where middle aged guys in ugly shirts go to engage in the incomprehensible art of rolling a ball at 10 wooden bottles. His duties would include telling bratty kids to stop throwing popcorn at each other or to keep their sodas off the pool table. Once in a while he might have to break up a scuffle between two punks vying for the attention of the same guidette.

Why in the name of blue blazes is this guy packing a .38 cannon in a job like this?

It's not like this is a venue that attracts vicious skinheads, psychopathic soccer hooligans or the kind of Francis Begby characters from Glasgow pubs.

Do shopping mall security guards carry concealed firearms in case Beth and Robin get rowdy in the Food Court? Do stewards at basketball games (where alcohol and emotions can generate some heightened tensions) swan around with Glocks strapped to their thighs? Do security staff at funfares walk around with shotguns?

You must live in a perpetual world of paralyzing fear if you think that it's reassuring to have an armed rent-a-cop at a bowling alley.

Dartz

Yet another bowling related shooting....

TPD

You'd think shooting them in the thigh would have been equally effective and less dangerous.

Stercus Accidit

The Perfect Drug wrote: »

You'd think shooting them in the thigh would have been equally effective and less dangerous.

"Hold still lads please and refrain from attacking me, while I just aim this shot at your thigh"

He shot as he was trained to in self defence, at the centre of mass, and I'm impressed he was able to keep cool enough to hit them each once, if he was being attacked.

It is dependant on whether he was being attacked or not whether or not he will be convicted, and that alone.

jackiebaron

[QUOTE=Stercus Accidit;64388906
He shot as he was trained to in self defence, at the centre of mass, and I'm impressed he was able to keep cool enough to hit them each once, if he was being attacked.

QUOTE]

Yet another person who sees NOTHING out of the ordinary in a security guard at a bowling alley carrying a concealed lethal weapon. Would you like to see movie theatre ushers armed with Barettas along with their flashlights?

Stercus Accidit

jackiebaron wrote: »

Yet another person who sees NOTHING out of the ordinary in a security guard at a bowling alley carrying a concealed lethal weapon. Would you like to see movie theatre ushers armed with Barettas along with their flashlights?

He had it legally, deal with it.

The issue is whether or not he was defending himself, nobody should be obligated to be beaten up while on their job. He had the gun for defence, legally, if he defended himself in accordance with the law; rather than some other possibility, he is in the right.

AnonoBoy

He's going to be charged with assault, the Irish lads are facing small misdemeanour charges.

That's it.

Stercus Accidit

AnonoBoy wrote: »

He's going to be charged with assault, the Irish lads are facing small misdemeanour charges.

That's it.

I was charged with assault before, and it was thrown out of court as soon as I arrived, assumed guilt is nonsense.

Of course they will charge, the cctv will be analysed, a decision will be made.

It remains the case that he either was acting in self defence or not, I have more sympathy for this yank if he was acting in defence than the lucky guys who survived being shot. But thats if, idle hypothesis makes for great AH, but we don't know how things actually happened, so I don't buy this criticism of the man and assuming his guilt.

Dyr

General Zod wrote: »

OVER THE LINE!

This isn't nam smokeys, this is bowling..there are rules

pickarooney

Winty wrote: »

He was smoking against the law in a public building how is this the wrong place at the wrong time?

Is this a rhetorical question? in a public building in 21st century America is the definition of the wrong place at the wrong time to be smoking.

AnonoBoy

Bambi wrote: »

This isn't nam smokeys, this is bowling..there are rules

Let me tell you if that security guard pulled any crazy **** with me, flashed a piece out on the lanes. I'd take it away from him, stick it up his ass and pull the f*cking trigger 'til it goes click.

jackiebaron

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

He had it legally, deal with it.

The issue is whether or not he was defending himself, nobody should be obligated to be beaten up while on their job. He had the gun for defence, legally, if he defended himself in accordance with the law; rather than some other possibility, he is in the right.

He may have had a permit to carry a concealed firearm but I'd be VERY interested to know if the proprietors of the bowling alley knew that their security guard was armed. I'm quite certain that they would have told him not to carry his gun while working on their premises or else go find another job. You're missing the point when you're arguing the legality of this guy carrying a weapon. A bowling alley is no place for an armed guard especially a 54 year old ex-prison guard with a chip on his shoulder and probably an axe to grind against anyone who doesn't show him "respect". If you need to have a security at a bowling alley to get rid of rowdy drunks then employ one or two heavies who work out at the gym, don't lose their tempers and can handle themselves in a brawl.
If I owned a night club or beach-bar or some family joint like a local amusement park and needed security in case there was ever any trouble and the security company sent me some guy armed with a gun or bat or samurai sword I'd send him packing straight away no matter what kind of permits he had.

Just because the guy holds a permit to legally carry a weapon doesn't mean he is allowed to bring it to, and wear it at, his job.

You seem to think that just because it's "legal" then it's justifiable. If a mentally retarded or autistic kid flips out, breaks away from his mother and runs over and starts slapping me I'm not going to beat that kid to a bloody pulp or kill the poor, troubled soul even though according to you I would be legally defending myself from attack.
Barmen and bouncers deal with drunken upstarts all the time. They don't pull out a gun and shoot them. They sling them out on their asses.

The bowling alley guy followed them outside after he threw them out for smoking. Why? Did he want to provoke a fight further? Did he actually want them to make a go for him? Two soft targets, nicely drunk, easy to provoke...and off the boat too...very easy to wind up with a few anti-Irish jibes. Maybe, maybe not...but this guy could easily have just locked the door after dumping these guys out but he chose to take it further.

Either this guy wanted to be macho by bringing his gun to his dead-end job hoping to use it on some punk and the owners didn't know he was tooled up or they DID know he was armed and ought to now be contacting the best lawyers they can find.

AnonoBoy

jackiebaron wrote: »

He may have had a permit to carry a concealed firearm but I'd be VERY interested to know if the proprietors of the bowling alley knew that their security guard was armed. I'm quite certain that they would have told him not to carry his gun while working on their premises or else go find another job. You're missing the point when you're arguing the legality of this guy carrying a weapon. A bowling alley is no place for an armed guard especially a 54 year old ex-prison guard with a chip on his shoulder and probably an axe to grind against anyone who doesn't show him "respect". If you need to have a security at a bowling alley to get rid of rowdy drunks then employ one or two heavies who work out at the gym, don't lose their tempers and can handle themselves in a brawl.
If I owned a night club or beach-bar or some family joint like a local amusement park and needed security in case there was ever any trouble and the security company sent me some guy armed with a gun or bat or samurai sword I'd send him packing straight away no matter what kind of permits he had.

Just because the guy holds a permit to legally carry a weapon doesn't mean he is allowed to bring it to, and wear it at, his job.

You seem to think that just because it's "legal" then it's justifiable. If a mentally retarded or autistic kid flips out, breaks away from his mother and runs over and starts slapping me I'm not going to beat that kid to a bloody pulp or kill the poor, troubled soul even though according to you I would be legally defending myself from attack.
Barmen and bouncers deal with drunken upstarts all the time. They don't pull out a gun and shoot them. They sling them out on their asses.

The bowling alley guy followed them outside after he threw them out for smoking. Why? Did he want to provoke a fight further? Did he actually want them to make a go for him? Two soft targets, nicely drunk, easy to provoke...and off the boat too...very easy to wind up with a few anti-Irish jibes. Maybe, maybe not...but this guy could easily have just locked the door after dumping these guys out but he chose to take it further.

Either this guy wanted to be macho by bringing his gun to his dead-end job hoping to use it on some punk and the owners didn't know he was tooled up or they DID know he was armed and ought to now be contacting the best lawyers they can find.

Or maybe the bowling alley did know he carried a gun and you're just speculating wildly....

jackiebaron

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Or maybe the bowling alley did know he carried a gun and you're just speculating wildly....

The employers of armed guards are legally responsible for any use of force. I'm only speculating here but I'm guessing that this guy was not employed by the bowling alley as an armed guard, per se. Why would you need an armed guard at a bowling alley? Instead he was employed as a bog-standard security bod who happened to have his own private weapons permit. If that's the case then this guy is in serious trouble since he used his own personal weapon in the conduct of his work duties where a firearm was not required.

Armed guards are for one thing only at that is to protect against the very real threat of deadly force such as celebrity assasination, armed robbery, etc. You don't need an armed guard patrolling the science museum or department store. You just need a guy to watch out for petty theft or vandalism or in the case of the bowling alley a guy who can throw out drunks much like a bouncer.

arybvtcw0eolkf

jackiebaron wrote: »

You must live in a perpetual world of paralyzing fear if you think that it's reassuring to have an armed rent-a-cop at a bowling alley.

Yup, I'm terrified of everything :rolleyes:

First off its not unusual to see armed security in the USA.

Secondly, and to me, more important. What in all reality do people think the security guy should have done - not acted, get beat up and possibly be disarmed and shot dead by his assailants with his own weapon?.

The guy acted in self defence, and I know we have a reputation as 'the thick Paddy', but these two went out to prove it ffs!. Smoking in an area they know is illegal, get chucked out, attack the security - the man produces a weapon & shouts a warning (at this stage most people would back off) and our hero's attack him a second time!.

They're lucky to have escaped with flesh wounds, bet they don't pull that crap again.

There's no smoke without fire!.

EMMA DEE

what kind of jump up yank!!!bring s a gun, to what is mean t to be a family set enviroment!!!! and for smoking, people that think that the two lads deserved this, seriously need a reality check!!!to get shot for smoking is a JOKE. the man was a retired corrections officer obviously on a power trip, he deserves everything he gets and more, he could have killed them two young lads!!!murderers and sex offenders don t get a bullet!!but for smoking!!!yeah everyone that is on this forum that is against these young lads has a brain!!! i mean brain dead!!! and also they don t know the full story!!!!but and the end of the day, they had to deal with an america, and what does the majority of the world think of american s , dumb as ****!!!! go back and eat yourselves happy!!!!

arybvtcw0eolkf

EMMA DEE wrote: »

what kind of jump up yank!!!bring s a gun, to what is mean t to be a family set enviroment!!!! and for smoking, people that think that the two lads deserved this, seriously need a reality check!!!to get shot for smoking is a JOKE. the man was a retired corrections officer obviously on a power trip, he deserves everything he gets and more, he could have killed them two young lads!!!murderers and sex offenders don t get a bullet!!but for smoking!!!yeah everyone that is on this forum that is against these young lads has a brain!!! i mean brain dead!!! and also they don t know the full story!!!!but and the end of the day, they had to deal with an america, and what does the majority of the world think of american s , dumb as ****!!!! go back and eat yourselves happy!!!!

OH my eye's!.

biko

EMMA DEE wrote: »

what kind of jump up yank!!!bring s a gun, to what is mean t to be a family set enviroment!!!! and for smoking, people that think that the two lads deserved this, seriously need a reality check!!!to get shot for smoking is a JOKE. the man was a retired corrections officer obviously on a power trip, he deserves everything he gets and more, he could have killed them two young lads!!!murderers and sex offenders don t get a bullet!!but for smoking!!!yeah everyone that is on this forum that is against these young lads has a brain!!! i mean brain dead!!! and also they don t know the full story!!!!but and the end of the day, they had to deal with an america, and what does the majority of the world think of american s , dumb as ****!!!! go back and eat yourselves happy!!!!

Wooo hold your horses there little missy.

It's easier to read if you use paragraphs, not some many exclamation marks etcetera.
Welcome to boards by the way