5 Months in

xgtdec

Hi All

Just posting to get some good advice on a few issues, i started in the gym 5 months ago and have pretty much watched my diet and done my workouts to the letter, weight has dropped and some definition is starting to show and over all im feeling much better in myself, i started at 18 and a half stone and through good diet and good workouts 4 days a week im now just under the 14 stone mark. But..and there is always a but the more i read about fitness the more i become confused, i suppose the main thing is that i now workout every 2nd day, my workout is a 10k run in 44-48 minutes and a 10k cycle in 20 minutes, both work up a good sweat and im feeling good after it, but all my gym weights are upper body based since my gym induction, 5 machines for arms 3 x 15 and 3 for stomach 3 x 15 and ive been doing them and noticing the differance but i cant help reading that i should be doing lower body aswell, or does the running and bike count for this? i also read that it should be 2 days on and one day off but im not sure if that would leaveme more tired or not, i guess some general guidance after 5 months is what im after, I'm a member of crunch but none of the "fitness staff" seem to be too pushed at what your doing, in fact since my induction i aint been approached by a member of staff at all, they do offer a personal trainer service...would this be something to look into to answer the questions?.the overall goal is fat burn....any questions for me..just shout....thanks so much!!

Inspector Coptoor

1st off, congrats on the weight loss.
well done.

you;re doing a very good time for 10k so fair play on that too.

1st off, 5 machines for arms at 3 sets of 15 is waay too much.

you really need to move away from machine based weights and start to learn how to do the compound lifts of the squat, bench, deadlift and overhead press with free weights.

programmes id suggest would be Rippetoe's starting strength (http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki) or strong lifts 5 x 5. (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/)

and then possibly moving on to something like Jim Wendler;s 5/3/1 programme.

are you training for any sport specifically?
or are you training solely to keep the weight down and feel good?

what's your diet like?
post up a full day's diet and a more detailed workout programme, as in, do you do the exact same workout mentioned above 4 times per week?

It all depends on what your goals are, do you want to become stronger and more muscular or do you want to become better at long distance running?

If it's strength your looking for, I'd recommend searching the 4 main lifts listed on youtube and watching them to see correct form, start off with light weight and build it up.

Id also switch to doing weights BEFORE cardio

hope this helps

xgtdec

Well diet wis it generally goes like this

7am, a handful of walnuts or 2 x babybel lites

9am, i slice of mccambridges bread, i egg scrambled, orange juice, and if i feel hungry a grilled sausage

11 am, a protein bar, im a madman for sweet and savoury chocolate and crisps so in order to stay away i have protein bars instead, good or bad i dont know but they keep me off the junk so i see them as a plus

2pm lunch, generally soup packed with veg and a few slices of chicken/ham etc

5pm, Protein Bar

7-8pm dinner, generally beans/peas with veg and either chicken/turkey/salmon

10pm, Protein Bar

Thats pretty much it for diet, i dont go hungry at all and it seem to be good for dropping the weight.

As for the work out well, the minimum for the 4 days would be like this
2k warm up at 12kph
22 min 5k run
20 minute 10 k bike

3 x 15 chest press 35 kg
3 x 15 pull downs 45 kg
3 x 15 Pec Fly 35 kg
3 x 15 tricep dips 35 kg

3 x 15 ab crunch 35 kg
3 x 15 kneeling rotations 45 kg

these are the machines given to me at induction, i didn't pick them at all.

The weights stay the same and normally ill do up to the 10k run but ill listen to my legs and if they aint sounding good then ill stop!

and i always do the cardio then the weights.

Is it possible to alternate as in Monday cardio and Tuesday weights etc with a day off at the weekend? i work in town and crunch have a gym there aswell as out in tallaght so 5-6 days isnt too much hassle

I'm also man enough to admit that i aint never been to the free weights area and am not too confident of going in there either

Any advice is appreciated as regards better results and any questions plase do just shout!!!

Transform

xgtdec wrote: »

Well diet wis it generally goes like this

7am, a handful of walnuts or 2 x babybel lites

9am, i slice of mccambridges bread, i egg scrambled, orange juice, and if i feel hungry a grilled sausage

11 am, a protein bar, im a madman for sweet and savoury chocolate and crisps so in order to stay away i have protein bars instead, good or bad i dont know but they keep me off the junk so i see them as a plus

2pm lunch, generally soup packed with veg and a few slices of chicken/ham etc

5pm, Protein Bar

7-8pm dinner, generally beans/peas with veg and either chicken/turkey/salmon

10pm, Protein Bar

Thats pretty much it for diet, i dont go hungry at all and it seem to be good for dropping the weight.

As for the work out well, the minimum for the 4 days would be like this
2k warm up at 12kph
22 min 5k run
20 minute 10 k bike

3 x 15 chest press 35 kg
3 x 15 pull downs 45 kg
3 x 15 Pec Fly 35 kg
3 x 15 tricep dips 35 kg

3 x 15 ab crunch 35 kg
3 x 15 kneeling rotations 45 kg

these are the machines given to me at induction, i didn't pick them at all.

The weights stay the same and normally ill do up to the 10k run but ill listen to my legs and if they aint sounding good then ill stop!

and i always do the cardio then the weights.

Is it possible to alternate as in Monday cardio and Tuesday weights etc with a day off at the weekend? i work in town and crunch have a gym there aswell as out in tallaght so 5-6 days isnt too much hassle

I'm also man enough to admit that i aint never been to the free weights area and am not too confident of going in there either

Any advice is appreciated as regards better results and any questions plase do just shout!!!

diet and training have both gotten you where you are you need major overhaul to get to the next level.

Get the basics going first like body weight squats, lunges, swiss ball leg curls, press ups and pull ups

re diet where is the fruit and good fats? stop using the protein bars so much also

xgtdec

Fruit..theres always something isnt there , yes i should be eating more fruit, just finished a banana, so thank you and im now a little bit more fruit aware

As for the protein bars, well its something i came to take to keep me away from junk, if theres an alernative to them ill gladly give it a go.

As far as the body weight squats, lunges, swiss ball leg curls, press ups and pull ups go, well ill try it all if it gets me where i want to go, not actually sure i can left my own weight though!!, would it be worth a few personal training sessions to get shown how to do all this?? also is it better to do cardio and weights on seperate days?

Transform

xgtdec wrote: »

Fruit..theres always something isnt there , yes i should be eating more fruit, just finished a banana, so thank you and im now a little bit more fruit aware

As for the protein bars, well its something i came to take to keep me away from junk, if theres an alernative to them ill gladly give it a go.

As far as the body weight squats, lunges, swiss ball leg curls, press ups and pull ups go, well ill try it all if it gets me where i want to go, not actually sure i can left my own weight though!!, would it be worth a few personal training sessions to get shown how to do all this?? also is it better to do cardio and weights on seperate days?

its worth getting a proper progam yes

TommyKnocker

Hi xgtdec

IMHO most of the so called protein bars are fairly close to junk any way. A lot of them have lots of simple sugars included.

Try having maybe a handful of mixed nuts with maybe some dried fruit at 11:00 am, Maybe some Tuna or peanut butter and some oat cakes at 17:00 and then at 22:00 maybe try some whey powder mixed with milk and some coconut oil.

I also make up a protein mousse using frozen berries, cottage cheese and gelatine (recipie from Eileen G)

See this thread for some more healthy food ideas http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055573795&highlight=recipies

IMHO these are better sources of protein then the bars and will also provide some healthy fat sources.


Just some ideas.


Best Regards,

M

xgtdec

Super food suggestions thank you!!!, any brands i should be going for or just stroll into tesco and pick up what i can find, like will golden vale peanut butter do they job or does it have to be a specific kind?

JJayoo

Where do you get your protein bars? do u use myprotein, they have great value for bulk buys

TommyKnocker

xgtdec wrote: »

Super food suggestions thank you!!!, any brands i should be going for or just stroll into tesco and pick up what i can find, like will golden vale peanut butter do they job or does it have to be a specific kind?

Hi There

Tesco do a peanut butter by "Whole Earth" which has no added sugar and they also have an organic variety. This is the brand I use. I buy Kelkin Organic Oat cakes, again in Tesco. I use the John West Tuna in brine, but the one that uses very little brine, so no draining required and I use Yoplait full fat cottage cheese. I buy nut varieties in either Tesco or Holland and Barrat. I usually mix Almonds, Walnuts, Brazil nuts, Hazel nuts & Cashews with some dried Cranberries, Cherries and Blueberries.

I alway have Oatcakes, Peanut Butter and a bag of mixed nuts and dried fruit at my desk in work, along with some Whey powder (which I pre-measure into zip-loc sandwich bags). So I always have a reasonably healthy food source available for snacks.

Another thing I bring to work in a small tupperware container is 3 whole eggs (soft boiled) removed from their shell and mashed up with some spring onion, diced pepper and quartered cherry tomatoes.

There are literally loads of ideas for healthy snacks without resorting to protein bars


Best Regards,

M

xgtdec

Just to check

Is this the type of whey to have before bed?
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/bulk-powders/protein-powders/impact-whey-isolate/

does it keep your metabolisim going over night or what would be the benefits, would you take one before or after workouts?

TommyKnocker

Hi There

There is nothing to say that you have to take whey before bed, but if you are taking a protein bar before bed then I think whey would be a better option.

The myprotein whey you linked to would be fine for taking before bed. Basically you have two options for protein powder.

• Whey
• Casein

Casein has a slower absorbtion rate than Whey, so ideallly you would take a casein based protein before going to bed (this does not have to be in powdered form. Cottage Cheese mixed with some natural yogurt and some berries world also work) and your body should use it to repair and hopefully build muscle. However mixing Whey with milk slows down the absorbtion rate of the protein to a similar rate to Casein (or so I have read), so rather then buying two types of protein powder, I just buy Whey. I mix it with water for my post workout shake and with milk at any other time.

I personally take a shake 3 times per day.

• At 08:30 in the morning at my desk (1 scoop whey, 5g creatine, 5g L-Glutamine mixed with 300 ml skimmed milk). The reason being that it is easier to down a shake then to eat a chicken of tuna salad.
• At around 16:00 (1 scoop of whey mixed with 300 ml of skimmed milk) coupled with a Cottage Cheese and fruit mousse, as a pre workout snack.Again because it is handier and lighter on my stomach then a proper meal per workout.
• At around 20:00 ish, immediately after my workout (2 scoops of whey, 2 scoops of glucose, 5g Creatine, 5g L-Glutamine mixed with 450ml water). I will not have eaten at this point for four hours, and it will be another 60-80 minutes before I arrive home, so I want to get some protein and carbs in a quickly as possible after training.

As I said, the first two shakes I take are purely for convienience sake. If I could I would choose real whole food over these shakes. I would however always take the post workout shake due to the gap since my last meal and the 60-80 minutes until I get home form the gym. Plus the fact I believe that the shake will be absorbed quicker than real food.


Best Regards,

M

xgtdec

super stuff,

i will get the whey as a before bed drink as workwise i can manage real foods more often then not, im going to look up the personal trainer in crunch and get a routine from him, do you think he would have cardio and resistance on different days or all together, is there telltale signs of a good and bad personal trainer or are they like golf coachs where as long as your paying them they tell you your doing great:)

corkcomp

xgtdec wrote: »

super stuff,

i will get the whey as a before bed drink as workwise i can manage real foods more often then not, im going to look up the personal trainer in crunch and get a routine from him, do you think he would have cardio and resistance on different days or all together, is there telltale signs of a good and bad personal trainer or are they like golf coachs where as long as your paying them they tell you your doing great:)

this is just a general rule (and yes there are exceptions before any smart ass points it out!) ive found most personal trainers that charge you an hourly fee are ok, and some are excellent. unfortunaly in my experience most gym instructors (ie. the free help) are not good (again there are exceptions)

xgtdec

Hi Guys...back again

I have my review(that i asked for) on Friday and im going to be adding a decent amount of lwr body weights to my workouts, so the week looks like this

Monday - 10k run 10 k bike
Tuesday - Weights program listed earlier with addtional lwr body, swim
Wednesday - 10k run 10k bike
Thursday - Weights program listed earlier with addtional lwr body, swim
Friday - 10k run 10k bike

I have also ordered some whey protein..erm...5 kilos to be exact

Given my gym routine and that the goal is fat loss at first, what sort of shakes should i be taking and when, any questions on any of this please do ask!!!!

Michael 09

Hi Xgtdec

Just popped into the thread, you seem to be getting some really good advice here so I'll leave the lads to it.

Just wanted to say well done on your weight loss and well done on realising that you needed to change your routine.

Keep it up mate!

xgtdec

Cheers for that, any words on the whey timing?

TommyKnocker

xgtdec wrote: »

Hi Guys...back again

I have my review(that i asked for) on Friday and im going to be adding a decent amount of lwr body weights to my workouts, so the week looks like this

Monday - 10k run 10 k bike
Tuesday - Weights program listed earlier with addtional lwr body, swim
Wednesday - 10k run 10k bike
Thursday - Weights program listed earlier with addtional lwr body, swim
Friday - 10k run 10k bike

I have also ordered some whey protein..erm...5 kilos to be exact

Given my gym routine and that the goal is fat loss at first, what sort of shakes should i be taking and when, any questions on any of this please do ask!!!!

Hi xgtdec

The timing of when you take whey shakes is not really of any importance. Whey was suggested as a more benificial protein source then all the protein bars you were eating, as most of these are also high in sugars and binding agents etc.

IMHO the main points you need to consider to move towards your stated goal of fat loss are

• Change up your weights routine
• Work out your daily maintenance calorie requirements and then cut this by between 300-500 calories to create a calorie deficit.

Workout Routine

I would personally recommend either

• Strong Lifts 5x5. See http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/
• Starting Strength. See http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/Starting_Strength_Wiki

Both of these programs are based around the main compound lifts (bench press, squat, deadlift, pull-ups, push-ups, power cleans, rows) and will help you develop full body strength. This is a better way for a person to start off IMHO.

I would also suggest that you consider swapping your planned schedule around to 3 days weights and 2 days cardio. And as your goal is fat loss, then start with some High Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). This is where you will go all out for 30-40 seconds and then recover for 1 minute or so and then go all out again for 30-40 secs. You should do around 10 or so work sessions. As you progress you can lengthen the time of the work part and/or decrease the recovery time. Usally a HIIT session lasts between 20-30 minutes and you should be close to collaspe and feel wasted after it. However at teh start you may not be able to jump straight into a 20 minute HIIT session, so build up to it. Maybe you will start with work periods of 20 seconds. The main thing is that you push as hard as you can on all work session and are totally wasted when finished.

Working out your daily calorie requirements

To work out your daily calorie requirements, I would recommend either

• The Harris Beneict formula (if body fat % is unknown). See http://www.bmi-calculator.net/bmr-calculator/harris-benedict-equation/
• The Katch McArdle Formula (if body fat % is known). See http://cordianet.com/calculator.htm

First workout your Basic Metabolic Rate (BMR), then multiply the BMR figure by the activity multiplier to get you daily calorie requirements.

To loose body fat reduce this number by arond 300-500 calories to create a daily calorie deficit. This should see you loose around 1lb per week, most of which should be from your body fat stores.

It's important to remember that as your body fat %/weight drops, you will need to recalculate your calorie requirements, as the number of calories required by a 14st person to maintain their weight will be higher then what is requried when that person drops to say 13st 7lb. So your daily caloire requiremetns should be dropping in line with your fat loss.

Finally for fat loss I have found that having a ratio of 40% of calories from Protein, 30%-35% of calories from healthy fat sources and 25%-30% calories from carb sources has worked really well for me. Also I get as many of my daily carb calories from fiberous sources (fruit & veg) as possible and I limit the amount of starchy carbs (rice, pasta, potatoes, breads etc) I eat.

After that try and get as much of your daily calories from good whole food sources. Use your whey shake for after workouts and when it is not convienient to have whole food. However you treat the whey are a normal food and count the calories provided by the whey into your daily calorie allowence, always maintaining your deficit. Whey protein is a supplement. It should be used to supplement a already good diet. It is not a magic potion and will not work miracles

Summary

• Change up your workout routine
• Base you weight workouts around the compound movements
• Start introducing some HIIT cardio
• Workout your daily calorie requirements
• Create a daily calorie deficit
• Remember that Whey is a supplement and is used to supplement an already good clean diet.

Hope that helps.


Best Regards,

M

xgtdec

did ya type that all in one breath?

Ill have a load of reading up to do after all that, i'd better suss out the free weights in the gym, ill creep in early sunday morning, should be quite at that stage,

I did want to be off the bars or at least cut them down so i think the diet is going to be better say minus 2 bars a day and adding the whey

The hiit training should be good, could this be done on a treadmill?, id still want to do a 10-15k in a week so would it be better to have 3 cardio with 2 hiit and one 10-15 or 3 cardio days and 3 weights days? or does this leave little time for recovery

You advice is much appreciated

TommyKnocker

Hi Xgtdec

xgtdec wrote: »

The hiit training should be good, could this be done on a treadmill?,

Yep, you can do HIIT on the threadmill, but also try it on the Cross Trainer and the rower, just to mix things up a bit and keep it challenging and interesting

xgtdec wrote: »

I'd still want to do a 10-15k in a week so would it be better to have 3 cardio with 2 hiit and one 10-15 or 3 cardio days and 3 weights days? or does this leave little time for recovery

You advice is much appreciated

IMHO (and please remember that I am an IT engineer and have no formal qualifications in Health and fitness) HIIT is a better method of cardio for cutting body fat than just steady paced cardio. However if you want to keep one session where you do a 10-15k run, then that's up to you. As long as you are eating a calorie deficit and doing something that get's your heart rate up and has you sweating, then you are going in the right direction.

As for doing 3 days cardio and 3 days weights, well again that's up to you. If you have the time and you are recovering ok, then that's fine. That is the routine I follow. I lift on Sunday, Tuesday & Thursday and do cardio on on Saturday, Monday and Wednesday and have friday off. I will usually do some extra stretching and foam rolling on Fridays.

The only thing to do is to try it for a few weeks and see how you get on.


Best Regards,

M

xgtdec

Super Stuff

so by all that i have a BMR of 2002.99 and at a guess im putting down that im pretty active so BMR x 1.725 =3455.15 calories a day needed to maintain weight

So say 3000 to lose it, i have a nasty feeling that i actually eat less than this, maybe around 2000 a day, i really have to get a couple of days menu and work out the calories......but again interesting and super stuff;)

TommyKnocker

You will want to avoid running too large of a calorie deficit as your body will react to this my lowering your metabolism and storing the extra calories as fat for what it percieves as a famine.

The trick is to run a deficit to force yoru body to hit its fat stores for the extra energy it requires, while not going too large which might trigger the lowering of your metabolism.

This is why the 6 small meals a day is used. So your body is being fed regulary which helps keep your metabolism up.

You can use http://www.fitday.com to help you keep your daily calorie intake or if you are familiar with Microsoft Excel, you could knock up a quick and dirty spreadsheet to track your calories.


Best Regards,

M