Selection of Mods

My name is URL

Without going to far into the details of what happened, I was asked a month ago if I'd like to Mod AH.. I said yes and didn't hear anything back

I had to PM Dav to see what was happening and he informed me that the Admin team decided that I was not Mod material

There was a poll on AH a while back where users were asked to choose who they would like to see as Mod.. (I know the poll was a pisstake)

I also know that other mods and even the Cmod had recommended me for the position, which is how I thought Mods were selected?

The reasons Dav gave me sounded quite generic. Sure I have a few blemishes on my record here but other current mods have worse

Could an Admin not have contacted me directly to inform me what the issues were about making me Mod?

No doubt you'll think I'm just bitter about the decision made, but I'm not.. I'm just annoyed that I was messed around with and led to believe that I was going to be made mod without any Admin taking the time to explain to me why I wouldn't

IvySlayer

I don't see why he wasn't appointed. People wanted him, he wiped the floors in the polls.

He doesn't get into much trouble, there were mods appointed with several bans in their history.

Before the no experience argument comes up, look at Frada and Zohan. They were popular posters which everyone liked, with no experience and they were made mods, and look how good they've been.

SV

lol, I really would like to see how URL isn't mod material considering some other mods(not particularly in AH)

Although, with regard to AH and..other forums really, why are the 'new' mods rarely seen on said forums before they're mods on them?

Kiera

It has happened in the past, where mods wanted a certain person and the Admins said no. Is it really that big of a deal, URL? Cant you just suck it up?

Or is it that you'll have to pay for your own coke and hookers thats really pissing you off?

IvySlayer

Kiera wrote: »

It has happened in the past, where mods wanted a certain person and the Admins said no. Is it really that big of a deal, URL? Cant you just suck it up?

Or is it that you'll have to pay for your own coke and hookers thats really pissing you off?

He's not angry about not being appointed moderator, PMs you know. It's the regular users of AH who want to know why he wasn't selected.

Smcgie

I don't think this thread is going to help URL. They have already selected their mods and replied saying your not suitable mod material... Why is this still an issue? At the end of the day its the admins decision and disregarding it and questioning their handling of it is not going to make you their next choice of mod.

phasers

I think that it's just downright rude that nobody got back to URL about it in the first palce.

Kiera

IvySlayer wrote: »

He's not angry about not being appointed moderator, PMs you know. It's the regular users of AH who want to know why he wasn't selected.

Look, i URL as much as the next guy/gal. But they obviously thought the other 3 were more suitable. Thats not to say they thought anything badly of URL. Sure who's to say he wouldnt have gotten it in the future?

I think this should have been done in private tbh.

IvySlayer

Hoof_Hearted wrote: »

I don't think this thread is going to help URL. They have already selected their mods and replied saying your no suitable mod material... Why is this still an issue? At the end of the day its the admins decision and disregarding it and questioning their handling of it is not going to make you their next choice of mod.

This is feedback, this is not a campaign to make him a mod, but rather to clarify the procedure on why he wasn't. There seems to be no definite reasons.

Nevyn

Sounds like the gun was jumped somewhere, all new mods are vetted and the admins get the final yeah or nay before someone is appointed.
There is a bit of a difference between guaging if someone wants to and offering them appointment. As the saying goes there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.

Could an Admin not have contacted me directly to inform me what the issues were about making me Mod?

Could you have not contacted the admins about this?
/shrug
Being able to handle matter descretely is something which is often required of a mod.

mike65

Same thing happened me me not too long ago. No names, no pack drill.

Time Magazine

I hope you don't mind me posting your ban history, but it's a 2-day ban from AH (you went "too far" with one comment) and a 7-day ban from PI for "unhelpful posting".

Seems strange that there's such a problem with that in the first instance, and I think it's pretty poor form that you didn't get a courtesy PM from someone either.

IvySlayer

Kiera wrote: »

Look, i URL as much as the next guy/gal. But they obviously thought the other 3 were more suitable. Thats not to say they thought anything badly of URL. Sure who's to say he wouldnt have gotten it in the future?

I think this should have been done in private tbh.

This isn't a dig at the mods appointed. A poll was appointed to vote for someone who was going to be a mod. He won. He had the support of other AH mods, the CMOD.

The admins didn't want him - Why? Do users opinons not matter? This is the bit I want clarification on.

My name is URL

Thaedydal wrote: »

Sounds like the gun was jumped somewhere, all new mods are vetted and the admins get the final yeah or nay before someone is appointed.
There is a bit of a difference between guaging if someone wants to and offering them appointment. As the saying goes there's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip.



Could you have not contacted the admins about this?
/shrug
Being able to handle matter descretely is something which is often required of a mod.

I didn't know who to contact, that's why I PM'd Dav in the end

It wouldn't have broken the Admin's backs to speak with me directly instead of allowing it to go on until I had to make the first move, this whole thing could have been averted if the communication was better

And I would like some honest reasons as to why the decision was made, even though other mods thought I'd be a good addition. I don't think that's too much to ask

Aren't communities built by the people that post in them?

Time Magazine

Thaedydal wrote: »

Could you have not contacted the admins about this?
/shrug
Being able to handle matter descretely is something which is often required of a mod.

Did you read the OP?

He did contact an admin. IMHO in this case the CMod (or whoever approached him) should have sent him a PM explaining the admins said no (which they're more than entitled to do), but they didn't. He was left hanging. That's what he's complaining about and I sympathise with him.

Faith

I think sometimes forum mods will select a new mod, and PM them to see if they're interested before going to the Admins. This is because there's no point wasting admin time by saying "Can you add X to mod Y forum", only for the admin to contact X and find out they've no interest in being a mod. So in a way it's jumping the gun.

I imagine the PM sent to you was only to see if you were interested in becoming a mod of AH, in the event that you were approved for said position. It sucks, because it obviously got your hopes up. The mods should have come back to you and said "We contacted the admins with x no of possible candidates for the new AH mod position, and unfortunately you weren't chosen". It should have been made clearer to you that, unless asked by an Admin, nothing is definite. The local mods and Cmods can agree on someone, but if the admins disagree, that's that.

IvySlayer - in these instances, no, user opinion doesn't count. It might help with candidate selection, but it has no bearing on the eventual decision made by the admins as to who will get the mod job.

IvySlayer

Faith wrote: »

I think sometimes forum mods will select a new mod, and PM them to see if they're interested before going to the Admins. This is because there's no point wasting admin time by saying "Can you add X to mod Y forum", only for the admin to contact X and find out they've no interest in being a mod. So in a way it's jumping the gun.

I imagine the PM sent to you was only to see if you were interested in becoming a mod of AH, in the event that you were approved for said position. It sucks, because it obviously got your hopes up. The mods should have come back to you and said "We contacted the admins with x no of possible candidates for the new AH mod position, and unfortunately you weren't chosen". It should have been made clearer to you that, unless asked by an Admin, nothing is definite. The local mods and Cmods can agree on someone, but if the admins disagree, that's that.

IvySlayer - in these instances, no, user opinion doesn't count. It might help with candidate selection, but it has no bearing on the eventual decision made by the admins as to who will get the mod job.

And the current mods on the forum and the CMOD doesn't count either?

Xavi6

Faith wrote: »

no, user opinion doesn't count.

Then don't run a poll in the forum tbh

IvySlayer

Xavi6 wrote: »

Then don't run a poll in the forum tbh

Yeah this! I didn't know it was a pisstake at the time. (Zohan enforced rules and everything, it seemed serious)

5starpool

Perhaps as part of the mod selection process if the user is deemed not suitable, it should be up to a specific person (relevant admin,cmod, or involved mod) to let this person know that they are not going to be made mod, and I believe it should be the cmods job. If there is going to be an extra layer in this then make use of it. Equally if the person is suitable, the cmod should also contact them again to communicate this (I still think initial sounding out is the mods job though).

Communication = good.

Bob_Harris

Pfft, Earl would be better than The Zohan anyway.

I've spent more time banned from After Hours than I have spent posting there. He gave me another month off just now.

Faith

IvySlayer wrote: »

And the current mods on the forum and the CMOD doesn't count either?

Don't get me wrong, opinions count. User opinions help in the selection of potential mods, and mod and cmod opinions count in getting the admins to look at the potentials. But admin decision is final, and if they decide against someone, even if everyone else thought they were a great choice, then that person still won't get the gig. Yeah, it's a little unfair, but that's how it's always been. Sucks especially for URL in this case.

Xavi6 wrote: »

Then don't run a poll in the forum tbh

Tell that to the AH mods, not me. But in fairness, polls have been run there for a long time, and they usually do result in the popular candidate getting the job (afaik). Except for Pighead.

Xavi6

Faith wrote: »

Tell that to the AH mods, not me.

That was the intention. I was just making a point on your point

IvySlayer

Faith wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, opinions count. User opinions help in the selection of potential mods, and mod and cmod opinions count in getting the admins to look at the potentials. But admin decision is final, and if they decide against someone, even if everyone else thought they were a great choice, then that person still won't get the gig. Yeah, it's a little unfair, but that's how it's always been. Sucks especially for URL in this case.




Tell that to the AH mods, not me. But in fairness, polls have been run there for a long time, and they usually do result in the popular candidate getting the job (afaik). Except for Pighead.

Admins make a decision fine. They run the site. At least give a reason. Considering how highly recommended he came, I hope it was a good one.

TheZohanS

IvySlayer wrote: »

This isn't a dig at the mods appointed. A poll was appointed to vote for someone who was going to be a mod. He won. He had the support of other AH mods, the CMOD.

The admins didn't want him - Why? Do users opinons not matter? This is the bit I want clarification on.

The enbolded is not true, I should know it was me that posted the poll and the thread.

Back in early January I asked if posters were interested in having an After Hours Awards for 2009 here.

TheZohan wrote: »

We're looking for Category suggestions for the After Hours Awards for 2009. The best 10 or so suggestions will make the final cut. We'll make a few polls as we progress. If you would prefer not to have an Awards that's cool too.

We don't want any suggestions for nominees for the Categories that you suggest just yet.

E.g. : "Best New Poster" might be one suggestion for a Category.

Lets keep it clean and make sure any suggestions are in-line with our Charter.


Have fun!

From that I picked a category that was popular and asked for nominations here. When we had enough nominations I added a poll.

Bob Mugabe was the outright winner by a landslide.

None of this was to pick a mod, it was for the craic. Unfortunately we lost two mods in January so we didn't have enough manpower to finish off the rest of Awards.

Faith

IvySlayer wrote: »

Admins make a decision fine. They run the site. At least give a reason. Considering how highly recommended he came, I hope it was a good one.

I completely agree. He should have been informed once the decision was made, either by an admin or mod.

TheZohanS

Bob_Harris wrote: »

Pfft, Earl would be better than The Zohan anyway.

I've spent more time banned from After Hours than I have spent posting there. He gave me another month off just now.

You have 10 bans, 4 infractions and 5 warnings.

It's not me, it's you.

WindSock

If the poll was a farce for the lulz, then why was Url asked if he would like to be one?
It seems a bit unfair.

IITYWYBMAD

Maybe and explanation from one of the Admins as to how and why this decision was reached, would help.

seamus

Faith wrote: »

I think sometimes forum mods will select a new mod, and PM them to see if they're interested before going to the Admins.

This is probably what happened in this case. A mod should never PM a potential mod saying, "Would you like to mod the forum" before going to the admins. Because if the admins (or the Cmod) decide not to make them a mod for whatever reason, it puts people in awkward positions.

More recently the admins have been taking the mods' and Cmods' recommendations (because they can't know everyone), but in the case of high-profile posters, they may veto a particular user for whatever reason.

It's worth noting that previous bans aren't given as much weight as the poster's overall attitude and previous conduct on feedback. The admins need mods who consider the well being of the overall site and not just necessarily the forum(s) they mod. They need people they can be reasonably sure aren't going to create hassle.

You can read that to mean "They need team players" if you wish, but they need mods that they know aren't going to use their moderation abilities in grudges against users, are going to be relatively impersonal when it comes to moderating and aren't going to feed sensitive information to people who shouldn't know it. They also need people who know when to take a discussion into private and when to make it a public issue.

That's not a shot at you starting this thread URL - but it damages the credibility of the whole moderation system when moderators start questioning and attacking eachother in public or "airing their dirty laundry" unnecessarily. There are a number of people who have been prosposed as mods and shot down on that very basis.

If you're not satisfied with the answers Dav gave you, maybe PM him again and ask him to be brutally honest.

IITYWYBMAD

WindSock wrote: »

If the poll was a farce for the lulz, then why was Url asked if he would like to be one?
It seems a bit unfair.

It looks like 2 separate points to me.

1) The poll was for the Lulzzzzz

and

2) URL was asked.

The two, seemingly, unconnected.

Saibh

This is my recollection of how mods were picked in AH as a poster on Boards.

There was a thread started asking regulars to nominate someone for mod - that time dr.bollocko was made mod.

Another thread was created sometime later - Rabies was appointed (as far as I can recall I don't think Rabies was mentioned as a potential mod).

In both cases, there wasn't a poll.

Rest of the mods as far as I remember were appointed without any threads started.

Posters/mods nominated are made mod, posters/mods not nominated were made mod.

IvySlayer

OK, forget the brilliant poll, I admitted earlier I didnt know it was a pisstake

My other questions still stand.

My name is URL

seamus wrote: »

This is probably what happened in this case. A mod should never PM a potential mod saying, "Would you like to mod the forum" before going to the admins. Because if the admins (or the Cmod) decide not to make them a mod for whatever reason, it puts people in awkward positions.

More recently the admins have been taking the mods' and Cmods' recommendations (because they can't know everyone), but in the case of high-profile posters, they may veto a particular user for whatever reason.

It's worth noting that previous bans aren't given as much weight as the poster's overall attitude and previous conduct on feedback. The admins need mods who consider the well being of the overall site and not just necessarily the forum(s) they mod. They need people they can be reasonably sure aren't going to create hassle.

You can read that to mean "They need team players" if you wish, but they need mods that they know aren't going to use their moderation abilities in grudges against users, are going to be relatively impersonal when it comes to moderating and aren't going to feed sensitive information to people who shouldn't know it. They also need people who know when to take a discussion into private and when to make it a public issue.

That's not a shot at you starting this thread URL - but it damages the credibility of the whole moderation system when moderators start questioning and attacking eachother in public or "airing their dirty laundry" unnecessarily. There are a number of people who have been prosposed as mods and shot down on that very basis.

If you're not satisfied with the answers Dav gave you, maybe PM him again and ask him to be brutally honest.

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made

I have been outspoken in feedback a few times, but is that not what Feedback is for?

As a user, this forum is the only place to air concerns etc. As a mod, there'd be less public ways of going about things

If the decision was made because of my past history in feedback then it seems unfair to this forum itself, because it pretty much means that people cannot bring up issues without the fear of them being used against you in future

WindSock

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

It looks like 2 separate points to me.

1) The poll was for the Lulzzzzz

and

2) URL was asked.

The two, seemingly, unconnected.

So someone went ahead and asked Url before they cleared it up with the Admins?

IITYWYBMAD

WindSock wrote: »

So someone went ahead and asked Url before they cleared it up with the Admins?

It would not be the first time.

Nevyn

while a poster maybe popular in a forum and while the mods of that forum may think they would be a good fit the admins are tasked with the over all well being of the site and site security and the final call is with them.

It can be as simple as they don't like the cut of your gib or don't think your mod stuff and good enough arguments were not made by those who nominated you and being popular with forum regs is never enough.

Finding good replacement mods for busy forums is hard, esp when they are to play forward the sites ethos and uphold the rules. Bloody hard for PI/RI.

Silverfish

I've gotten pm's a few times asking me would I like to mod a forum.
But it never ended up going anywhere. I know that unless I hear from an admin (or Cmod now) that it, for whatever reason, wasn't going ahead.

If a mod pm's asking would you be interested in modding a forum, it may not mean anything, it may just be a face-value would you be interested, can your hat be thrown in the ring sortof thing. They don't get the final say, the admins do.

So it really shouldn't be done without clearing it with an admin first, it does make the whole process longer but it does save that feeling.

Ponster

My name is URL wrote: »

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made...

While everything that seamus says is correct, I believe that there is an extra element required to be a good mod of AH (in the same way not all mods can mod PI or politics...)

Maybe someone felt that you didn't have that extra quality? Either way you didn't do anything wrong in the 'mod-selection-process' and I certainly wouldn't rule out you becoming mod of perhaps some other forum in the future.

WindSock

IITYWYBMAD wrote: »

It would not be the first time.

In recent times?

Times were a mod of the forum would ask for a user to be added as a mod and it usually happened. Now there are procedures in place.

mike65

hey Silverfish, you're doing alright!

The Recliner

Silverfish wrote: »

I've gotten pm's a few times asking me would I like to mod a forum.
But it never ended up going anywhere. I know that unless I hear from an admin (or Cmod now) that it, for whatever reason, wasn't going ahead.

If a mod pm's asking would you be interested in modding a forum, it may not mean anything, it may just be a face-value would you be interested, can your hat be thrown in the ring sortof thing. They don't get the final say, the admins do.

So it really shouldn't be done without clearing it with an admin first, it does make the whole process longer but it does save that feeling.

Ah you have enough forums anyway

URL I feel for your plight, it seems like there was a mis-communication or a lack of it

These are things that have come up recently and are being worked on

I obviously don't know what the reasons were for you not being selected, it could be something as simple as they had other candidates who were suggested first and you might have been back up, however you aren't the first person this has happened too and hopefully if a few of the improvements that are being talked about happen then maybe you might be the last

seamus

My name is URL wrote: »

That seems fair enough, but how can anyone determine how a user will perform as a mod? I know that Mods need to be team players, and I've never held a grudge against any poster.. I don't see how that would be a reason for the decision made

I have been outspoken in feedback a few times, but is that not what Feedback is for?

As a user, this forum is the only place to air concerns etc. As a mod, there'd be less public ways of going about things

If the decision was made because of my past history in feedback then it seems unfair to this forum itself, because it pretty much means that people cannot bring up issues without the fear of them being used against you in future

I wasn't commented on your case specifically, I don't know the details, just outlining the usual reasons why such a request is turned down.

Yes it can be hard to determine who will and will not make a good mod, and mistakes have been made (both in appointing and not appointing) in the past. It's something of an unknown quantity, and sometimes a gut feeling will swing it either way for someone.

It's generally the case that where there's any doubt whatsoever, it'll be turned down. It's much harder to remove a modship from someone once you've given it to them, so the admins have to do their best to avoid making the wrong choice in the first place.

After Hours and some of the other forums (such as Soccer) are also given special consideration in that they're the "welcome lobby" for new people and are insanely busy. I would have always done my utmost to appoint existing mods to positions in AH because I was sure they could handle it.

WindSock

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

seamus

WindSock wrote: »

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

Indeed, for after hours in particular, the most popular posters don't always make the best mods because the role means that they need to reign in their posting style.

IITYWYBMAD

WindSock wrote: »

In recent times?

Times were a mod of the forum would ask for a user to be added as a mod and it usually happened. Now there are procedures in place.

I've no idea of the timescale tbh.

My name is URL

WindSock wrote: »

Maybe they thought you would lose teh funneh if you were made mod
Has happened before.

That wouldn't bother me tbh. If I had of been appointed I would have done my best to keep the forum running smoothly

There's not much else I can say really.. except that in cases where both users and mods and Cmods feel that someone is a good choice, maybe the Admins should give them the benefit of the doubt, even on a trial basis, to see how it works out

Ponster

My name is URL wrote: »

maybe the Admins should give them the benefit of the doubt, even on a trial basis, to see how it works out

It may seem to make sense but it's 100 times harder to de-mod then it is to pick the mod in the first place.
Sometimes it's just better to err of the side of caution when there's a doubt.

IITYWYBMAD

Ponster wrote: »

It may seem to make sense but it's 100 times harder to de-mod then it is to pick the mod in the first place.
Sometimes it's just better to err of the side of caution when there's a doubt.

How is it harder?

Time Magazine

Because if someone is demodded we'll all be up in arms unless there's a damn good reason.

WindSock

My name is URL wrote: »

That wouldn't bother me tbh. If I had of been appointed I would have done my best to keep the forum running smoothly

What I mean is, perhaps you are a valuable contributer to AH. Being a mod of it comes with restrictions.



''Great power, comes with great responsibility''

-Spidey's Uncle