Speed Training

Goin90

Right. So I'm currently playing rugby and football, training five times a week and doing weights twice a week. I need to increase my speed because I want to chage position in rugby.
I was wondering what the best exercises/weightlifts and other 'drills' I could use to increase my speed. I would be looking for explosive speed. 'Speed to burn' kind of thing.
I'm currently doing sets of sprints three times a week also.

Thanks

ilovelamp2000

Do a little bit of research on plyometrics.

What position are you looking to change from and to ? Is weight loss a possibility ?

Barry.Oglesby

Stats? Position now and possible future position? Current lifts? last strength test/body comp test?

mink_man

doesnt putting on muscle slow you down?

Barry.Oglesby

If it did, this guy would be a pedestrian

Transform

mink_man wrote: »

doesnt putting on muscle slow you down?

emmm no!

d'Oracle

mink_man wrote: »

doesnt putting on muscle slow you down?

I had this argument witha mate recently. (both drunk)
I said that if it did then sprinters wouldn't bulk up.

He said they don't all do it.
Then he tried to use Kim Collins as proof of his point.

Bless him.

Barry.Oglesby

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

If it did, this guy would be a pedestrian

We could all run fast and carry muscle with the aid of illegal substances!!

d'Oracle

He is fast without them though.
And still big.

Chet Zar

This is a better example for ya?

Westwood

Maurice Green. like a match stick...



Shawn Crawford, fecking tiny...

The_Kew_Tour

My speed has improved by about 1.5secs over 100 metres since I started doing weight training about 18 months back

I am 26 now but always bit short on the speed side of things..

If it can work for me it can work for anyone

Barry.Oglesby

Deleted User wrote: »

We could all run fast and carry muscle with the aid of illegal substances!!

yeah cos that's what made him fast- the pixie juice!

Goin90

5ft 7"
just over 9 and a half stone (62kg)
Bench press 50kg
Dumbell press 17.5kg
Dumbell fly 10kg
Squat 55kg
Seated calf raise around 60kg (cant remeber properly the last time i did it)
I haven't taken any times for 100m so I'll have to get that done soon

In regards to position I've played scrum-half for my school's B-team and I've played centre for the C team.
I want to try a move out onto the wing but I know I'll need more speed for this.
I've never been slow but I wouldn't want to be put on the wing and get easily outrun

digme

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/sprinting_towards_single_digit_body_fat
It gives a sample workout of a sprinter.
I used some of the workouts in this,helped me a lot.

itsallaboutheL

Goin90 wrote: »

5ft 7"
just over 9 and a half stone (62kg)
Bench press 50kg
Dumbell press 17.5kg
Dumbell fly 10kg
Squat 55kg
Seated calf raise around 60kg (cant remeber properly the last time i did it)
I haven't taken any times for 100m so I'll have to get that done soon

In regards to position I've played scrum-half for my school's B-team and I've played centre for the C team.
I want to try a move out onto the wing but I know I'll need more speed for this.
I've never been slow but I wouldn't want to be put on the wing and get easily outrun

What age are you OP??

injured365

Goin90 wrote: »

5ft 7"
just over 9 and a half stone (62kg)
Bench press 50kg
Dumbell press 17.5kg

Dumbell fly 10kg
Squat 55kg

Bench 50kg and squat 55kg?
What age are you and how long have you being doing weights?

Goin90

I'm 16 been doing weights for about a year. Don't use a structured weights programme or anything tho

jfit

You should try to find a qualified trainer in your area, somebody who has a track record rather than simply looking to a gym for an instructor. A sprint coach with an athletics club will be able to teach you drills, mechanics, acceleration, max velocity etc.

On the strength side of things, in terms of long term development, you are really only in the foundation stage - literature tells us that a 2 year anatomical adaptation (foundation) should be laid before an athlete/player moves towards developing maximum strength.

Remember the development of speed is neural - in other words you can continue to improve speed if you are taught proper mechanics, drills and if you sprint.

Do not rush down the road of chasing heavy weight yet, leave that for another 12 months - if you can, contact a sprint coach and ask him to steer you in the direction of a qualified strength and conditioning coach (someone with a track record i.e. working with athletes/players of good calibre).

Hanley

jfit wrote: »

On the strength side of things, in terms of long term development, you are really only in the foundation stage - literature tells us that a 2 year anatomical adaptation (foundation) should be laid before an athlete/player moves towards developing maximum strength.

Can you explain what this means, and what literature it came from?

Not having a shot at all, genuinely curious

RacoonQueen

For team sports you can do some completely different speed drills than what a sprinter or certainly a long distance runner would do.

You have your bog standard high knees, heel flicks and running backwards, which all always worked for me. You'd also be looking at acceleration development, once already warmed up; things like standing sprints - sprinting from a standing start or a sprint from 'dancing' on the spot.
Varied speed runs - for example sprinting for 20m, holding your pace for 20m then increasing your pace for 20m, dropping pace for 20m then try to get back to faster pace for 20m etc
Sprinting from a lying down start is a good rugby drill to increase how quickly you can go from lying down after a tackle to reaching max. speed.
Build up sprints - running to 25m, increase your speed between 25m and 50m, increase again between 50m and 75m and then maintain your pace between 75m and 100m.

aDeener

digme wrote: »

http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/sprinting_towards_single_digit_body_fat
It gives a sample workout of a sprinter.
I used some of the workouts in this,helped me a lot.

that really looks the part, thanks for that. if that doesnt improve sprint times god help us!!

jfit

The IRFU has set out a Long term players development model, something that has been in place for years in other countries and also now being implemented by the GAA (with resistance I believe to certain aspects).

You will a lot of info on this under LTPD or LTAD (long term athlete development) if you search.

All periodization models include an anatomical adaptation phase at the beginning. When dealing with a 16year old (for most sports but no all e.g early development sports such as swimming, gymnstics etc) with 1 years of strength training the approach (for long term benefit) is a 2 year AA period - this should be filled with Circuit training, learning technique for squats, Deadlifting, introduction to Olympic lifts but emphasising technique over weight, once this base is laid the individual can move to the development of Max strength which becomes crucial in terms of continued speed development.

There are quite a few more movement related issues for a field sport player to consider in terms of speed development, deceleration, change of direction and so on. The OP was, I think, looking to better his forward running speed - its too simplistic by the way to describe drills as bog standard - drills like Mach's A and B drills are executed improperly by the majority of athletes (I've rarely seen a rugby or GAA players use these drills) - these need to be taught be somebody who understands how they were developed in the first instance.

An introduction to plyometrics (low volume) woulds also be a good idea - mechanics (especially landing technique) must be properly taught at the beginning.

Barry.Oglesby

You wouldn't happen to be doing the Setanta course would you jfit?

Conditioned

jfit wrote: »

The IRFU has set out a Long term players development model, something that has been in place for years in other countries and also now being implemented by the GAA (with resistance I believe to certain aspects).

You will a lot of info on this under LTPD or LTAD (long term athlete development) if you search.

All periodization models include an anatomical adaptation phase at the beginning. When dealing with a 16year old (for most sports but no all e.g early development sports such as swimming, gymnstics etc) with 1 years of strength training the approach (for long term benefit) is a 2 year AA period - this should be filled with Circuit training, learning technique for squats, Deadlifting, introduction to Olympic lifts but emphasising technique over weight, once this base is laid the individual can move to the development of Max strength which becomes crucial in terms of continued speed development.

There are quite a few more movement related issues for a field sport player to consider in terms of speed development, deceleration, change of direction and so on. The OP was, I think, looking to better his forward running speed - its too simplistic by the way to describe drills as bog standard - drills like Mach's A and B drills are executed improperly by the majority of athletes (I've rarely seen a rugby or GAA players use these drills) - these need to be taught be somebody who understands how they were developed in the first instance.

An introduction to plyometrics (low volume) woulds also be a good idea - mechanics (especially landing technique) must be properly taught at the beginning.

What aspects are being met with resistance by the GAA?

jfit

Ya, I did the 2 years with Setanta but I started my fitness enthusiasm (and qualifications) over 20 years ago.

If you really want to understans speed, its development, its links with strength, plyometrics and so on, search out the definitive research undertaken in the 1990s by the IAAF - track and field always led the way in terms of research - fantastic stuff which still stands up today.

GAA resistance - I've been told by coaches from different parts of the country that members are not too happy with the idea of eliminating competitive matches for younger children - this is part of the LTPD philosophy.

d'Oracle

jfit wrote: »

GAA resistance - I've been told by coaches from different parts of the country that members are not too happy with the idea of eliminating competitive matches for younger children - this is part of the LTPD philosophy.

Wait, what?
They stop kids playing, in order to train them in it?

Whats the point in a sport, if you can't play the sport?
I think I can see where that may be a problem.

injured365

d'Oracle wrote: »

Wait, what?
They stop kids playing, in order to train them in it?

Whats the point in a sport, if you can't play the sport?
I think I can see where that may be a problem.

Its not stop them playing its that the competitive type of games shouldnt be allowed that skills should be the focus not winning. As in challenge matches or friendlies would be allowed but no real competitive cups or leagues. The FA in england are looking into something similiar as well.

To some degree clubs have started this policy themselves by ensuring that everyone plays in the matches and not making decisions on subs, tactics etc based on the score of the matches but on the hope of everyone getting game time.

A big difference from even a few years ago when certain players were always favored and others always blacklisted

d'Oracle

injured365 wrote: »

Its not stop them playing its that the competitive type of games shouldnt be allowed that skills should be the focus not winning. As in challenge matches or friendlies would be allowed but no real competitive cups or leagues. The FA in england are looking into something similiar as well.

To some degree clubs have started this policy themselves by ensuring that everyone plays in the matches and not making decisions on subs, tactics etc based on the score of the matches but on the hope of everyone getting game time.

A big difference from even a few years ago when certain players were always favored and others always blacklisted

Oh, right.

Barry.Oglesby

jfit wrote: »

Ya, I did the 2 years with Setanta but I started my fitness enthusiasm (and qualifications) over 20 years ago.

Thought you might have, that paragraph you wrote above was more or less word for word from one of the lectures

If you really want to understans speed, its development, its links with strength, plyometrics and so on, search out the definitive research undertaken in the 1990s by the IAAF - track and field always led the way in terms of research - fantastic stuff which still stands up today.

which itself was just proof of much of the Soviet material from the 70s and 80s, with apparently still a lot of mistranslations and misinterpretations.

Plyometrics are, for me, the number 1 most misused set of exercises in training. No one really understands what they're for or how to programme them in. My mate, thanks to a whole weekend's "Reebok Plyometrics" course once put a DSL team through a whole 90 minutes of plyo work where the training age was probably between 0 and 2 years. He's an idiot of course but it's common enough to see guys who can deadlift 100kgs jumping on and off boxes.

d'Oracle

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

it's common enough to see guys who can deadlift 100kgs jumping on and off boxes.

Erm... can you expand that a bit?
Are you relating strength levels to wether you should do plyos?

jfit

I wouldnt say that Plyometrics are not understood - mechanically and physiologically we have quite a good understanding - exercises are not the problem - poor coaching is - poor understanding of when to introduce, what to introduce, volumes and so on.

There is a view that a certain levels of stength should be in place before Plyometric training takes place - exactly how much is debated.

I train kids ranging in ages from 4 - 18yrs all of whom jump, hop, sprint etc with no ill effects. Kids play ranges of sports all the time which include plyometric movement - problems arise when a coach decides to create a specific plyometric session for individuals without testing landing mechanics, strength levels, history of plyo training etc.

bubbleking

d'Oracle wrote: »

Erm... can you expand that a bit?
Are you relating strength levels to wether you should do plyos?

Il have to look up my old lecture notes on this one but i think it was suggested that an athlete should have a Squat 1RM of 1.5 times their body weight before attempting any form of plyo