Recommended Reading - Nutrition 101?

cmyk

Throwing this out there specifically aimed at those studying or with a good background in nutrition, I think there's a few out there? TempleGrandin/Khrystina/EileenG etc.

In a nutshell I'm doing a course at the moment that features nutrition basics. I'm only a few weeks into it, but so far it's leaving me with more questions than answers. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll have to go along with the course as it's set out, but I'd like to do some research myself. They still use the traditional food pyramid as gospel, with breads/grains as the base with 6-11 servings +.

I've listened to all of robb wolf's paleolithic solution podcasts several times, and been dipping in and out of taubes' diet delusion, so I guess I'm getting swung by the low-carb, and in particular the issue of grains and dairy seemingly causing so many issues.

As the title suggests, to understand some of what robb wolf says I think I need a basic understanding of the chemical/biological workings of the breakdown of foods to take a more educated stance on it.

El_Dangeroso

The Diet Delusion is the daddy of all nutrition books in my opinion. Nothing else I've read has made a complex subject so entertaining. Though be aware that it is a few years old now and although he was onto the general right track, we know a little bit more about the carbs that cause trouble and those that don't.

Taubes is writing a new book for the lay person, called provisionally 'How we get fat.' which I believe will be out in 2011. But I'm assuming you probably need something a bit quicker.

I really wish there was a book that delved into the biochemistry in an understandable manner. So far I'm muddling though this as a reference:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crash-Course-Metabolism-Nutrition-Course-UK/dp/072343297X

It is very very technical and is full of diagrams that take hours of looking terms up on web to understand. But it is the science and nothing but the science, so is handy as a reference for the biochemical stuff.

I'd pick up the crash course on endocrinology too as hormone regulation is intrinsically interlinked with metabolism.

What specifically are you struggling with? Maybe I can direct you to some free web sources.

All in all, I find the more you get into the molecular level of metabolism, the more confused and disillusioned you become.

I prefer sticking to simple high level human studies which shows you what happens in the real world as opposed to a petri dish.

cmyk

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

I really wish there was a book that delved into the biochemistry in an understandable manner. So far I'm muddling though this as a reference:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crash-Course-Metabolism-Nutrition-Course-UK/dp/072343297X

It is very very technical and is full of diagrams that take hours of looking terms up on web to understand. But it is the science and nothing but the science, so is handy as a reference for the biochemical stuff.

I'd pick up the crash course on endocrinology too as hormone regulation is intrinsically interlinked with metabolism.

Thanks Temple. That looks along the lines of what I'm thinking, and understand what you say, I may very well regret delving too deep. I guess I find the podcasts from robb wolf quite interesting, but as I've no specific scientific knowledge I can't really fully understand the ins and outs of it, and so I'm forced to take it as face value....I hate doing this without my own research first.

For instance fish oil is a recurring theme and he speaks a lot of the huge imbalances in ratios of omega 3 and omega 6 fats from grain fed animals etc. I'd like to just understand the processes behind that a little more. I'm intrigued by some of the claims/cures made of the paleo diet.

I didn't know taubes was writing a new book, so I'll def keep an eye out for that too.

corkcomp

sports nutrition by anita bean, in fact any of her books ftw

El_Dangeroso

I think for your purposes, it might be good to get acquainted with Pubmed. It will only give you abstract but you can often get full text free by digging around.

A good tip for getting what you want is to look in the title only by putting [ti] after the keyword. For example Omega 3[ti] will give you all the articles with Omega 3 in the title. Or better yet, use MeSH headings:

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/bsd/disted/pubmedtutorial/020_010.html

Here is a journal where most of the articles are free-text:

http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/

But regarding omega 6 and 3 here is an excellent breakdown of the science by my favourite blog ever Whole Health Source:

Here is an overview of 3/6 and heart disease. Part I and Part II and an simplified summary for the lay person.

Actually, browse through that blog and you'll get an education in itself.

Stephan has the most scientific integrity of any blogger I've read, he's not a low carber, but he is rigourous in his investigation and I take everything he says seriously, even if I don't come to the exact same conclusion.

Other good science bloggers are:

Peter of Hyperlipid

Nephropal which is a blog of a kidney specialist

Cardiologist Dr. William Davis' Heart Scan Blog

And Dr. Eades blog - really worth browsing through old posts on his debunking of common nutritional myths and excellent analysis of studies in the media.

Bear in mind, that because this arena of science is so new, consensus is rare, even amongst paleo people. Some think dairy is the devil, some think it's fine in moderation. Some think we need to limit protein, some think protein limits itself. Some people are for ketosis, some people think it's best avoided. But pretty much everyone agrees that refined carbohydrate, vegetable oils and gluten are bad news and saturated fat has been incorrectly vilified.

Happy browsing!

cmyk

Brilliant stuff, thanks temple, that'll keep me busy for a while, a lot of that looks extremely technical but useful resources, I may run with the book you linked to first off to get some sort of grounding.

I have eades blog in my bookmarks alright, and really ought to have protein power...plenty of bedtime reading ahead me thinks, many thanks and I'm off to bed to get stuck back into diet delusion!

Sapsorrow

cmyk wrote: »

Throwing this out there specifically aimed at those studying or with a good background in nutrition, I think there's a few out there? TempleGrandin/Khrystina/EileenG etc.

In a nutshell I'm doing a course at the moment that features nutrition basics. I'm only a few weeks into it, but so far it's leaving me with more questions than answers. I'm resigned to the fact that I'll have to go along with the course as it's set out, but I'd like to do some research myself. They still use the traditional food pyramid as gospel, with breads/grains as the base with 6-11 servings +.

I've listened to all of robb wolf's paleolithic solution podcasts several times, and been dipping in and out of taubes' diet delusion, so I guess I'm getting swung by the low-carb, and in particular the issue of grains and dairy seemingly causing so many issues.

As the title suggests, to understand some of what robb wolf says I think I need a basic understanding of the chemical/biological workings of the breakdown of foods to take a more educated stance on it.

Hmmm.. suprisingly hard question to answer I don't read too many actual books during the college year more science papers and journals so I'm finding it hard to remember titles off hand...

Are you in a university? If so definately check out your library for journals and the likes and milk the online database for every paper it's worth while you can! (I'm downloading like crazy these days in case I don't do a postgrad and lose my ability to log in to the library database!)
It's a bit tricky at the start actually using the search engines on them (thanks for the tips btw Temple) but just mess around with them a bit till you get the hang of it.

Areas that I personally find interesting are: polyphenols, phytosterols and soy phtoestrogens in particular, carbohydrate metabolism esp fructose lately, antioxidants, cancer prevention and modification, calorie restriction and longevity, the french paradox, coffee - suprisingly interesting, vitamin D the vitamin D receptor and calcium, nutrigenomics, nutrition and ageing, alzheimers and depression all really interesting, nutrition phsychology and determinants of eating behaviour the list goes on but all of them are well interesting areas once you get down to the nitty gritty stuff

These days the internet is all you need really, I download individual articles from scientific american and the likes using a credit card rather than buying whole issues just to read one article about something nutrition related! Stephans blog that Temple linked is great too. It's also worth checking out sites run by organisations likes FSAI, EFSA, the british dietetic association and charitable organisations etc for papers, news etc.. I also like the ecologist and they generally include an article on nutrition and one of food production, toxicology etc..

Yea I loved the diet delusion more than anything because it makes you aware of just how flawed nutritional science can be which makes you more cynical when looking at research (a good thing as far as I'm concerned!) but I personally think Taubes takes the low carbs thing a tiny bit too far, I think there is room in a healthy diet for a small amount of the right sort of cereals for example. He's a little bit of a hypocrite in some respects and I'm not too keen on the fervour with with he pins the whole metabolic syndrome down to carbs alone pretty much, there's definately other nutritional aspects backed up with good research that play a role in it all that he seems to disregard so I take him with a little pinch of salt. In a sense he's doing exactly what all the sat fat-cholesterol fanatics did in the 1980s by getting so excited about one particular aspect of the research that he seems a bit oblivious to other aspects of the situation.

On the sugar thing jesus I went looking for a copy of Yudkins pure white and deadly jesus christ not available for less than 100quid anywhere! Thinking of buying myself a first ed as a special present to myself maybe when I graduate

The other one someone recently mentioned is Michael Pollens omnivores dilema for the more political side of things.

Are you looking for a textbook or just books for recreational reading? A good basic book on nutrition wouldn't be a bad thing with a little bit of biochem in it heres a good one I use a fair bit that the head of the nutrition dept in UCC contributed to: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=458660426&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26tn%3Dan%2Bintroduction%2Bto%2Bhuman%2Bnutrition%26x%3D28%26y%3D10

A good introductory 3rd level book on physiology is always a good thing to have too so you can try and develop more of an understanding of the fundamental concepts and mechanisms behind a lot of nutritional intervention theories. Physiologies a great area I love it

I don't know would there be much point in getting a chemistry book it's so heavy going I can't imagine anyone learning it out of free will but of course an understanding of chemistry is indispensible for understanding a lot of the research out there so maybe try a leaving cert book even just to glance through some of the basics.

I'll try and think of some good titles for you and have a gander at my bookshelf in the next while

El_Dangeroso

khrystyna100 wrote: »

Yea I loved the diet delusion more than anything because it makes you aware of just how flawed nutritional science can be which makes you more cynical when looking at research (a good thing as far as I'm concerned!) but I personally think Taubes takes the low carbs thing a tiny bit too far, I think there is room in a healthy diet for a small amount of the right sort of cereals for example. He's a little bit of a hypocrite in some respects and I'm not too keen on the fervour with with he pins the whole metabolic syndrome down to carbs alone pretty much, there's definately other nutritional aspects backed up with good research that play a role in it all that he seems to disregard so I take him with a little pinch of salt. In a sense he's doing exactly what all the sat fat-cholesterol fanatics did in the 1980s by getting so excited about one particular aspect of the research that he seems a bit oblivious to other aspects of the situation.

God, I really want to contradict you there..but I can't

In Taubes' defense, a LOT has happened in the five years since he finished his manuscript, so he wouldn't have had access to some of the more illuminating studies that have come out recently and his central tenet is 'refined carbs cause metabolic dysfunction' which is still true, we can just be a bit more specific as to which ones and and why it's not the whole story. Plus he is not stating that he is right, but rather appealing to the scientific community to 'investigate the alternative hypothesis', the epilogue even outlines the design of a few potential studies. He is misguided on a few tiny points, especially fructose and the glycemic index, but in fairness he is so spot on with so many other things that I forgive him.

cmyk

Thanks guys, all great info, in particular that Whole health source blog seems like a great point of reference.

Khrystyna: I was initially looking for a book, something along the lines of what you might use in your first year studying (as a nutrition intro).

I'm in a v.small private college, and nutrition isn't a huge module, they have a small library, it's not that concise though, and mainly seems to lean towards anatomy/physiology end of things, and no online library.

My problem is with the pubmed stuff etc is I'm not really going to get much understanding from them without some firm grounding, so the book that temple pointed me towards might serve as a good reference to support that.

My frustration is the majority of reading I do points towards some level of carb restriction for weight loss as a standard starting point. Why then is this information taking so long to filter down and the same old food pyramid is still being used as gospel. They did add a caveat that the introduction of the GI table has an influence, and that the vegetable/fruit level will be changed to 10+ servings or unrestricted in the foreseeable future.

Sapsorrow

cmyk wrote: »

Thanks guys, all great info, in particular that Whole health source blog seems like a great point of reference.

Khrystyna: I was initially looking for a book, something along the lines of what you might use in your first year studying (as a nutrition intro).

I'm in a v.small private college, and nutrition isn't a huge module, they have a small library, it's not that concise though, and mainly seems to lean towards anatomy/physiology end of things, and no online library.

My problem is with the pubmed stuff etc is I'm not really going to get much understanding from them without some firm grounding, so the book that temple pointed me towards might serve as a good reference to support that.

My frustration is the majority of reading I do points towards some level of carb restriction for weight loss as a standard starting point. Why then is this information taking so long to filter down and the same old food pyramid is still being used as gospel. They did add a caveat that the introduction of the GI table has an influence, and that the vegetable/fruit level will be changed to 10+ servings or unrestricted in the foreseeable future.

Ok well definately get the book I sent you a link to then as a good background book and we used it as a textbook in first and second year it covers a good range of topics in a fair bit of detail and is very readable.

Re Carbs and weightloss, yes the low carb thing works for a lot of people but it's isn't important and doesn't necessarily work for everyone. It's good to learn about all approaches to diet and nutrition without getting to hell bent on one theory so early on as there is no one hat that fits all in nutrition so try and keep an open mind and explore other approaches to health too. There are populations in the world that cosume good carbs and live long healthy and slim lives, on a population level it's only when we deviate towards processed grains and sugars that the issues begin.

They aren't going to start adivsing low carb anytime soon because they realise that the general public isn't reliable in 2 respects (a) to correctly interpret radical new guidelines (like the low carb ones) and (b) to have the educational background in nutrition and finances to apply the theory in an appropriate and safe way to prevent any major nutritional deficiencies etc..

Try telling the average joe on the street that they should be doing low carb and a huge percentage of them will cherry pick the bits they likes (ie Ok yay now I can eat a fry for breakfast 3 times a day) and ignore the bits they don't like (ie the masses of green leafy's etc) so you have to try and understand things from the perspective of the public health nutritionists who are trying to comunicate information on a very simplified level to a generally uninterested and uniformed general public without confusing them or giving them the wrong impression about anything. It's an extremely challenging situation for the policy makers and thats why it takes so long to shift the guidelines.

Right just scoured my bookshelf these aren't necessarily to everyones tastes but here are some of the ones I've read in the last few years;

Healing with wholefoods - Paul Pitchford
Fats that heal, fats that kill - Udo Erasmus
Sugar blues - William Duffy
Not on the label - Felicity Lawrence
Diet for a dead planet - Christopher Cook
Diet and nutrition - Rudolf Ballantine
Diet for a new america - John Robbins
The China study - Colin T Campbell
Stolen harvest - Shiva
Food politcis - Marion Nestle
Dangerous grains - Braly and Hoggan: Just bought this for myself and it's looking good so far

Also been eyeballing these lately for myself: http://www.amazon.com/Nutrition-Concepts-Controversies-Frances-Sizer/dp/0495390658/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265367303&sr=1-3

and: http://www.amazon.com/Food-Revolution-Your-Diet-World/dp/1573247022/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1265367522&sr=1-7

El_Dangeroso

I don't know about people not 'getting' a real low carb diet, I think the main problem with government policy at the moment is that it's a) too prescriptive and influenced by industry and b) it assumes people are stupid, so advocates basically meaningless and overly simplistic changes in people's lifestyles (take the stairs instead of the lift!)

In my own opinion a ketogenic diet should only be prescibed to the overweight, some people choose to go keto all the time and feel better on it and that's ok too, I drift in and out of it myself but don't make an effort to stay there. The rest of the time I'd advocate moderate carbs, in the region of 25-35% of calorie intake, the majority comprised of vegetables.

I can't help but notice the China Study in that list Krystyna..surely not!!:eek:

Sapsorrow

Lol I knew I was gonna get a slagging for that one , It is very flawed science but i stuck it in as it's one of the books I read in the last year or so and may be of interest to the OP.

Sapsorrow

New book today 'bad science' by Ben Goldacre.
Anyone read or know anything about this guy? It's got a chapter dedicated each to Gillian McKeaith and Patrick Holford so I thought it has to be good for a laugh. I read a random paragraph that happened to be about Kellog's being an outspoken anti-masturbation campaigner. In his 'treatment for self-abuse and it's effects' he reccomended women use pure carbolic acid downtsairs "as an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement" :eek: and also that men should be circumcised without anaesthetic "as the bried pain will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment". Needless to say me and the boyf have sworn to neve buy another keellogs branded product again what a nut case! :pac:

El_Dangeroso

khrystyna100 wrote: »

New book today 'bad science' by Ben Goldacre.
Anyone read or know anything about this guy? It's got a chapter dedicated each to Gillian McKeaith and Patrick Holford so I thought it has to be good for a laugh. I read a random paragraph that happened to be about Kellog's being an outspoken anti-masturbation campaigner. In his 'treatment for self-abuse and it's effects' he reccomended women use pure carbolic acid downtsairs "as an excellent means of allaying the abnormal excitement" :eek: and also that men should be circumcised without anaesthetic "as the bried pain will have a salutary effect upon the mind, especially if it be connected with the idea of punishment". Needless to say me and the boyf have sworn to neve buy another keellogs branded product again what a nut case! :pac:

Oh Kellogg was a well known nutter. He used to run an asylum and thought that cereals could cure compulsive masturbation and animal products encouraged it lol!

They've made a movie on his life The Road to Wellville, well worth a look.

Re: Ben Goldacre, he tends to stick to easy targets, people keep shouting about Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book 'The great cholesterol con' (which is a BRILLIANT book by the way, completely factual and very funny and entertaining). But he keeps ignoring it, seems he doesn't feel brave enough to call out the bad mainstream science of which there is LOTS, because it's much easier to bag on quacks and homeopathy.

Sapsorrow

Hmmm will try and get that Kendrick one next so.
I had a read of the Goldacre one last night, I read the chapter about 'professor' Patrick Holford and the one about Matthias Rath and Mbeki who are anti aids medication etc..
It's actually a really good read, at the start of the book he was kinda pickin on holistic therapies and stuff and I was thinking ya he really is just going for an easy target here so I skipped ahead to some of the grittier stuff and I really like what I read so far. He's really funny, I like the way people he writes about keep trying to sue him :pac: Funny he mentioned about Holford accusing him of being a pharma-puppet and saying the same thing about anyone who contradicts him rather than backing himself up with a reasonalbe arguement based on good up to date research and I remember him doing that at the seminar of his I went to years back. He was really playing up the whole 'oh the parma companies are out to trick you and discredit us the people who are trying to deliver you the truth' spiel and he's the oen who's been workin in pharma companies since the 70's! He's such a con man it's unbelievable.
Anyway definately reccomend it to anyone who doens't mind being made really angry by what they read.

cmyk

Just a word of thanks again for the links on the other stuff guys, have those (intro) books you both recommended on the way. Should keep me up late a few nights.

Transform

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Oh Kellogg was a well known nutter. He used to run an asylum and thought that cereals could cure compulsive masturbation and animal products encouraged it lol!

They've made a movie on his life The Road to Wellville, well worth a look.

Re: Ben Goldacre, he tends to stick to easy targets, people keep shouting about Dr. Malcolm Kendrick's book 'The great cholesterol con' (which is a BRILLIANT book by the way, completely factual and very funny and entertaining). But he keeps ignoring it, seems he doesn't feel brave enough to call out the bad mainstream science of which there is LOTS, because it's much easier to bag on quacks and homeopathy.

the cholesterol myth is a good one on the whole cholesterol issue.

El_Dangeroso

Just found this reading list from the course to become a certified nutritional therapist in the US, haven't read all the books but from what I have read this list seems pretty spot on:

http://www.nutritionaltherapy.com/NTT_Documents/Reading%20List%202009-10.pdf

Sapsorrow

Temple_Grandin wrote: »

Just found this reading list from the course to become a certified nutritional therapist in the US, haven't read all the books but from what I have read this list seems pretty spot on:

http://www.nutritionaltherapy.com/NTT_Documents/Reading%20List%202009-10.pdf

Pretty unconventional list, I'd say it'd be different for a dietician or nutritional science course. Elson M Haas in particular is very fluffy spiritual stuff.
I've actually got a fair few of those books, definately reccomend healing with wholefoods, it's my bible.