architect help!!

Dreamtime

hi all,

I have an architect coming tonight and am just looking for some advice on what i should be asking him obviously prev work etc but not sure what else.

all advice appreciated

beyondpassive

1. Address and phone numbers of recent clients.
2. Understanding of Energy Efficiency and Passive concepts (no BER bull).
3. Qualifications and registrations, extent of Insurance cover.
4. Portfolio
5. Fees

Dreamtime

thanks for the reply

i will write them down and ask him them.

anyone any other suggestions ??

muffler

As per beyondpassive's post above but also:

Fee for his services up to and including planning stage.
Will he then provide working drawings and the cost for same.
Will he supervise the construction of the house and again the fee involved.

Dreamtime

beyondpassive wrote: »

1. Address and phone numbers of recent clients.
2. Understanding of Energy Efficiency and Passive concepts (no BER bull).
3. Qualifications and registrations, extent of Insurance cover.
4. Portfolio
5. Fees

hi just reading back over your post what do you mean by extent of insurance cover

DOCARCH

Profesional Indemnity Insurance

Slig

Some good advice above but I'm not sure about the address and phone numbers of previous clients though, its not an interrogation. I wouldnt feel comfortable giving out private details of my clients to a perfect stranger. Definately ask for a portfolio of past works but take it with a grain of salt.

Discuss the project with them and see how you feel about their ideas. Make sure to get a full fee breakdown so that you know what your getting for your money and what extras you may have to pay for yourself. What qualifications do they have(mostly important if they are going to be signing off stage payment certs), Are they covered by PI insurance and what the timescale of the project is.

archtech

beyondpassive wrote: »

1. Address and phone numbers of recent clients.
2. Understanding of Energy Efficiency and Passive concepts (no BER bull).
3. Qualifications and registrations, extent of Insurance cover.
4. Portfolio
5. Fees

Under data protection, without prior consent of the client, one could land one's self in hot water I would image.

Might be no harm to ask where the bulk of their work is and their opinion of the planners in the area in question. if they do a lot of giving off about the planners, the planning process might be a rough ride.

Dreamtime

Thanks guys for all the replies,he will be coming soon so will report back to let you all know how i goy on.

thanks again

Dreamtime

hi all

the architect came out to the house tonight and was really pleased,i asked all the questions and got the answers.he lives in the same estate as myself got the name from the next door neighbour.

the only real concern i have at this point is that he cant guarentee that he will be around for the build as he is on the verge of getting a big job in a different country.

he has recommended two builders that he has done a lot of work with who i will get prices and one other.

my question is really if he is not around for the build and assuming i went withone of the builders he recommended would it be safe to say that the builder would build to his specks??

muffler

Dreamtime wrote: »

my question is really if he is not around for the build and assuming i went withone of the builders he recommended would it be safe to say that the builder would build to his specks??

This is where you need to engage someone to ensure he does.

size5

Dreamtime wrote: »

hi all

the architect came out to the house tonight and was really pleased,i asked all the questions and got the answers.he lives in the same estate as myself got the name from the next door neighbour.

the only real concern i have at this point is that he cant guarentee that he will be around for the build as he is on the verge of getting a big job in a different country.

he has recommended two builders that he has done a lot of work with who i will get prices and one other.

my question is really if he is not around for the build and assuming i went withone of the builders he recommended would it be safe to say that the builder would build to his specks??

Some options
1.See if your architect can recommend another architect that will inspect the build at each stage-not sure hiow practical this would be?
2.Is this the only architect that you have met? Maybe meet one or two other architects that could do job from start to finish.

And to reiterate Mufflesrs point I would get somone to supervise the building process. Best of luck

DOCARCH

size5 wrote: »

Is this the only architect that you have met? Maybe meet one or two other architects that could do job from start to finish.

+ 1

Not a great situation to have the architect you have selected disappear during your project - even if the architect was not engaged for the construction stage, at least they would be at the end of a phone to clarify small issues, etc.

Dreamtime

hi all

ive got onto the architect this morning and told him i was concerned about the possability that he may not be here for the build.he suggested that he could get an architect to over see the project if it does come about that he wont be here.

what would this mean for me,do i have to pay two acrhitects,is it a lot of hassle etc

onq

Your prospective architect has been frank with you - others may not be so forthcoming. <SNIP>

That having been said, your particular problem is getting to planning stage. If this can be acomplished in one go, well and good, but experience with residents associations shows me that you can end up in appeal.

If you are appealed, you could end up with no permission yet and your architect gone to greener pastures. To erduce the likelihood of appeals, I would prepare the ground as well as possible. This may involve meetings with the residents association as well as hosting and meeting in your own home for close neighbours. Your architect will provide A4 copies of the application drawings.

I advise you do this prior to lodgement and listen to any and all concerns, taking them on board even if it means modifying your design. Your first permission must be achieved. Aferwards you can seek consult with the planners and renegotiate with neighbours and seek permission for revisions to previously approved for any changes you might wish to amend or reverse.

HTH.

ONQ.




Mod edit: onq please stick to the topic at hand and refrain from posting off topic comments. muffler.

Dreamtime

hi ong

the architect went through exactly what you have just stated last night in regards the neighbours.i get along very well with the neighbours both sides and something i will be doing is sitting down with them and making sure there is no issues from them.

as regards the residents association we dident go that far is this a must
to make sure we dont get appealed

onq

Dreamtime wrote: »

hi ong

the architect went through exactly what you have just stated last night in regards the neighbours.i get along very well with the neighbours both sides and something i will be doing is sitting down with them and making sure there is no issues from them.

as regards the residents association we dident go that far is this a must
to make sure we dont get appealed

How far do you go to avoid an appeal? Difficult question. Sometimes things slip by, but nowadays this is more rare, in my experience.

I would suggest that you at least check the history of the association in relation to making planning submissions on development in and around the estate. Our own association is very active, others many be less so.

If they're active, having dealt with the near neighbours may be enough, but I would tend to contact them regardless and point this out to them, assuming your near neighbours are satisfied.

You might consider dealing with your near neighbours would be enough choose and to let that hare sit. I regret I'm too remote from the action to advise in more detail.

HTH

ONQ.

Dreamtime

cheers ong i will check it out anyway.

anybody and ideas as regards the architect not been on site for the build.

he is looking into getting one he knows to over see the build if he wont be around.

will this be an extra expense for me etc

Slig

Its not unusual for one architect to take a project to planning outcome and another architect/engineer to carry out the supervision & certification. In fact the last office I worked for would not carry out supervision at all.
I would imagine that your architect will only be charging for the work that they will undertake. I would expect that any other professionals appointed afterwards would expect payment aswell.

onq

+1 What slig has said.

Additional costs may accrue if the succeeding (!) architect has to redo design work by the original or if the fee breakdown for the whole job isn't matched by the fee profile for takover.

One basis used be the Thirds division.

1/3 to planning
1/3 to tender
1/3 to completion incl. tender, limited inspections and certification.

Planning practices may try for 1/2 to planning on the basis they may not be retained for the balance of the work and the planning process can be arduous, including appeals, oral hearings, plublc meetings etc..

A practice retained only for inspecting and certifying may strive for 1/2 fees also for what can also be a very time-consuming part of the process, e.g. if there are problems with the built work, suppliers, specialist items or componets leading to a significant amount of time being spent in administration of the contract as opposed to the "four visits" approach.

Each stage being well done complements the others and paves the way for a successful completion. Its important therefore that the handover point is agreed between the architects and their respective fees schedules reflect this and the responsibility for design that goes with it.

The key point is the tender/ working drawing stage. If you have no tender drawings or general arrangment sets together with key details and a good specification, you may end up in difficulty both when pricing a job and building it. Good documents save time and money on site and are well worth the investment so you should strive for good technical sets regardless of who's doing it.

Which firm takes responsibility for these? My best advice is to pay your current architect to planning stage only, with the later incumbent having looked at them for free now based on your offer of being retained in the future, and having confirmed his satisfaction with these planning drawings. The newcomer will then control the production of the building totally, from tender through working drawings to site work to certification.

Keep it simple.

HTH

ONQ.

DOCARCH

Firstly apoloigies to the OP - they will get even more confused!

I'd agree with everything onq and slig have said.

The only comment I would make is that if you engage somebody up to an including planning. That's fine.

BUT

Where I have taken over projects for the tender and construction stages, I have insisted that I prepare my own, new, measured survey of the house/site and then re-draft the previous architects plans in my own format, firstly to make sure the design works/fits on the site as proposed and also get my head around the design. Secondly to ensure that prior to starting tender/construction drawings, generally the design complies with building regulations.

Inevitably this leads to some duplication of costs.

In almost every instance I have done this, I have found something wrong either with the survey of the existing house, site or design as proposed!

In one case somebody came to me with drawings and planning permission for 2 new semi-detached houses in their side garden on a very tight site. When I re-surveyed the site I found it to be 1.2metres narrower than shown on the planning drawings. Needless to say, there was significant re-design involved and another planning application for ammendments! It became obvious the original architect used the ordnance survey as his site survey!

I'd strongly sugget the OP check around a few architects who can take the project from start to finish (if that's what they want) before committing to a part service from one person followed on by another.

onq

+ 1 Docarch

I had - perhaps wrongly - assumed that because the current architect knew the succeeding architect he would know his foibles and allow for them. But n a situation where an unknown is taking over from a less-than-savvy practitioner, your comment apply.

And such errors happen more often than you'd think. I once rejected a chartered surveyor's work on a town house development because he was a metre too narrow and a metre too long.

On the last Room to Improve the plan drawing was found to be out circa 2000mm out on a circa 9000m width. I once found I was 150mm out when I got a digital survey to check my taped measure of a house site last year and was mortified I hadn't spotted it.

Enough off-topic waffling from me.

ONQ.

morning delight

onq wrote: »

One basis used be the Thirds division.

1/3 to planning
1/3 to tender
1/3 to completion incl. tender, limited inspections and certification.

Each stage being well done complements the others and paves the way for a successful completion. Its important therefore that the handover point is agreed between the architects and their respective fees schedules reflect this and the responsibility for design that goes with it.

The key point is the tender/ working drawing stage. If you have no tender drawings or general arrangment sets together with key details and a good specification, you may end up in difficulty both when pricing a job and building it. Good documents save time and money on site and are well worth the investment so you should strive for good technical sets regardless of who's doing it.

ONQ.

Hi ONQ

I can fully appreciate having an architect on board for the first two stages. But what do they add at the third stage? If a tight tender is prepared, the client has a strong grasp of the design and detailing, and a tight contract is drawn up with the contractor, why keep the architect on board?

I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, but am interested to hear what the architect adds during this phase of the build.

Poor Uncle Tom

The user onq has been banned, as stated beneath the username. Please refrain from asking questions of a banned user where he/she cannot, or is not allowed to, respond.

morning delight

Poor Uncle Tom wrote: »

The user onq has been banned, as stated beneath the username. Please refrain from asking questions of a banned user where he/she cannot, or is not allowed to, respond.

Fair enough, I didn't realise onq was banned.

Anyone else with an opinion on this?

DOCARCH

morning delight wrote: »

Hi ONQ

I can fully appreciate having an architect on board for the first two stages. But what do they add at the third stage? If a tight tender is prepared, the client has a strong grasp of the design and detailing, and a tight contract is drawn up with the contractor, why keep the architect on board?

I'm playing a bit of the devil's advocate here, but am interested to hear what the architect adds during this phase of the build.

To answer very quickly, you sort of mentioned what an architcet does - prepare a 'tight' set of tender documents. Most people/clients do not have a strong grasp of design and detailing, and are unable to draw up a tight contract.

With the aid of an architect and a 'tight' set of tender documents, you should get relatively accurate pricing from contractors and little scope for lots of extras and variations during construction.

morning delight

onq wrote: »

1/3 to planning
1/3 to tender
1/3 to completion incl. tender, limited inspections and certification.

DOCARCH wrote: »

To answer very quickly, you sort of mentioned what an architcet does - prepare a 'tight' set of tender documents. Most people/clients do not have a strong grasp of design and detailing, and are unable to draw up a tight contract.

With the aid of an architect and a 'tight' set of tender documents, you should get relatively accurate pricing from contractors and little scope for lots of extras and variations during construction.

Thanks for reply Docarch.
From what I can see that is achieved (or the majority of it) at stage 2 of the outlined 3 stage process. I can appreciate the added value of the architect for stage 1 and stage 2. However I find it harder to see the added value in stage 3!

DOCARCH

morning delight wrote: »

Thanks for reply Docarch.
From what I can see that is achieved (or the majority of it) at stage 2 of the outlined 3 stage process. I can appreciate the added value of the architect for stage 1 and stage 2. However I find it harder to see the added value in stage 3!

Oh sorry! I didn't really look at what you were referring to as stage 3!

Normally services are broken into 4 stages (or at least as per the RIAI Agreement for Domestic Works), as follows;

Stage 1 - Design
Stage 2 - Planning
Stage 3 - Tender
Stage 4 - Construction

When you said stage 3, I assumed the stages I usually work off. My mistake!

Why keep and architect on for the construction stage? Ensuring the builder is building in accordance with the tender documents, generally in accordance with building regulations and using the materials specified. Updating drawings and details as may be required due to issues/changes required on site. Contrcat administration, certifying payments to the builder, ensuring the builder is fairly paid but not overpaid, dealing with and valuing extras and variations, dealing with and negotiating final accounts, acting as arbitrator between the client and builder. Providing necessary paperwork/certs to banks. Snagging at the end of construction and end of defects period. Preparing opinions on compliance.

Lots of reasons really to have an architect for the construction stage, especially if somebody/a client does not have a strong grasp of design and detailing.

morning delight

Lots of good reasons then, particularly if someone doesn't want to (or have the time to) acquire the requisite construction knowledge and wants a more hands off approach to the whole build.

I like the 'arbitrator between the client and builder'. I know of one or two cases where the client acted as the arbitrator between the architect and builder:).

My own opinion is good professionals are well worth it as they probably save you on items like extra work etc as you point out. They also add a certain peace of mind as to the quality of the project, which is afterall going to be your home for the next 30/40 years!

picorette

It is a long way from builder's working drawings to a completed building, and there are numerous decisions and interpretations to be made despite the tightest of Tender Documents.

Retaining an Architect for the construction stage should ensure that the original design is carried through and not re-interpreted, and that there is a thorough check on the quality of the construction and adherence to Building Regulations, and of course, the Tender Drawings. Most builders will try to do their own details if they get the opportunity.

At the end, the Architect will ensure proper completion of the works and legally certify this, a document which will be required when the house is sold.

green apple.

hi all, im very new to all this....

just wondering if this is a good rate for an architect in 2010.
my architect is in the RIAI i like his work and also his clear interaction with the client.
we are using him to go from stage 1 to stage 4

costings include
stage 1 €800
stage 2 €1500
stage 3 €1000
stage 4 €1200

so 4500 in total incuding vat and expenses....

No6

What work is he doing for you? It does seem very reasonable.

Mellor

green apple. wrote: »

hi all, im very new to all this....

just wondering if this is a good rate for an architect in 2010.
my architect is in the RIAI i like his work and also his clear interaction with the client.
we are using him to go from stage 1 to stage 4

costings include
stage 1 €800
stage 2 €1500
stage 3 €1000
stage 4 €1200

so 4500 in total incuding vat and expenses....

Tbh this post makes no sense as it's totally out of context.
stage 1-4 means nothing, what actually work is he doing, is it a new house or an extension etc

size5

green apple. wrote: »

hi all, im very new to all this....

just wondering if this is a good rate for an architect in 2010.
my architect is in the RIAI i like his work and also his clear interaction with the client.
we are using him to go from stage 1 to stage 4

costings include
stage 1 €800
stage 2 €1500
stage 3 €1000
stage 4 €1200

so 4500 in total incuding vat and expenses....

If I take it you mean from desig/concept stage to actual completion of the final project I think its a very resaonable price, compared to the architect we are currently using-but not sure if that says a lot:rolleyes:

picorette

green apple. wrote: »

hi all, im very new to all this....

just wondering if this is a good rate for an architect in 2010.
my architect is in the RIAI i like his work and also his clear interaction with the client.
we are using him to go from stage 1 to stage 4

costings include
stage 1 €800
stage 2 €1500
stage 3 €1000
stage 4 €1200

so 4500 in total incuding vat and expenses....

The fee needs to be put into perspective.
Can you clarify the works it is for? And the size?

green apple.

sorry about that this is what we hope to get for our money!!!

hopefully we will be building a two storey house the kitchen might be one level. we are hope to have the house as air tight as possible the size is no greater than 2500sq ft. please post replies again!!! thank you.


Work Stage One: Initial Design
Examine planning documentation from County Council in relation to adjacent sites; confirm a final brief with you for the proposed schedule of accommodation based on an analysis of the completed client questionnaire; prepare sketch design solutions for your proposed home for your assessment maximising the house’s relationship to the site, orientation, aspect and internal planning. We note that all design development client/architect meetings will take place at our offices.
Work Stage Two: Developed Design
Consult with the planning authorities including roads and drainage; develop an optimum design solution based on your response to work stage one including scaled plans and elevations and
incorporating new brief items that may evolve following work stage one; prepare and submit all documentation and drawings for an application for planning permission; deal with any requests for further information from County Council that may arise.
Work Stage Three: Working Drawings
Prepare a set of detailed tender drawings, documentation and specifications to include basic services for use by the client in obtaining quotations from contractors and to demonstrate compliance with Building Regulations. Please note that planning application drawings do not contain sufficient information for these purposes.
Work Stage Four: Construction
Carry out periodic inspections (six) of the works in order to issue certificates for payment to the bank for stage payments. Prepare Certificates of Compliance with Building Regulations and Planning Permission on completion. This stage will be as described in our email to you previously.
The fees associated with the above work stages would be:
Work Stage One: € 800
Work Stage Two: € 1,500
Work Stage Three: € 1,000
Work Stage Four: € 1,200
Please note that the above figures are inclusive of expenses and VAT (21%). We have set out on the attached appendix an outline of the expenses that we have allowed for and we note your payment terms. We are available to discuss the above if you require further clarification and we look forward to hearing from you soon.
APPENDIX: EXPENSES INCLUDED
Stage One:
Photographs / developing
Printing / copying
Ordnance Survey Planning Pack
Telephone/fax/internet
Stage Two:
Newspaper ad
Planning application fee
Printing / copying
Telephone/fax/internet
Stage Three:
Printing / copying
Stage Four:
Certificates
Telephone/fax/internet

archtech

Have to say its a very competitive price, its working about at about 1.5% +VAT at €100/sq.f build, which for a full design service of a project of this nature would have been considered well below cost in the past by most.

Were you advised that you would require a BER, possibly engineer, EPA test, topographical survey etc.

Did the architect confirm that they held PI?

Are you happy with what you've seen in terms of the relevant work/references of this architect?

green apple.

archtech wrote: »

Have to say its a very competitive price, its working about at about 1.5% +VAT at €100/sq.f build, which for a full design service of a project of this nature would have been considered well below cost in the past by most.

Were you advised that you would require a BER, possibly engineer, EPA test, topographical survey etc.

Did the architect confirm that they held PI?

Are you happy with what you've seen in terms of the relevant work/references of this architect?

We are very happy with the terms of the work and were supplied with 7 references. We have seen most of the previous work including the architects home so it looks good from that end.

We are ruling out an engineer because he will sign off on it.

Will have to check the BER i know what that is but what is a topographical survey and an EPA test!!!

thanks for the reply!!!

BenK

I think that's a ridiculousy low price to be honest. You are basically getting a full architectural (and engineering by the sounds of it) service with expenses included for around €3,720 (excl VAT).

A topographical survey is a survey of the site and can also show any existing buildings. It show the levels of the land, ridge heights, apex levels etc. It's not required for every job but on a complex or sloping site it's pretty essential.

You may also need an engineer to carry out a percolation test on the site for a septic tank.

As for not needing an engineer I'd double check with your architect you don't need one. I can't imagine that your architect will be happy to sign off on the design of any of the structural elements.

Also as archtech has noted, check that they have PI.

I have attached extracts from the RIAI survey of fees (undertaken in November 2008. It's also available on the RIAI web site.) to show what were common percentage fees for architects a couple of years ago for a full service. Your fee proposal of 1.5% (and that has assumed a low construction cost of €100 per square foot) doesn't even register on the chart. I know people will say that those were boom prices but as these are percentages it really is all relative to the construction cost. No wonder about 60% of architects are unemployed! It just shows how desperate Architects are for work at the moment... I'm not trying to lecture you however greenapple and if you are happy with your architect's other work if I was you I'd snap up that offer.

I can only assume that your architect is a one man show with little overheads and that the design for your house is fairly standard. I don't mean to cause any offence by that but the price does seem exceptionally low.

DOCARCH

BenK wrote: »

I think that's a ridiculousy low price to be honest.

Have to agree.

For that price, what struck me is that you may be getting a design, tender documentation, etc., alreday prepared for another house (maybe built maybe not) and then just transferred/copied to your site?

Even if architect was working at minimum wage, it's difficult to envisage you'd be getting a bespoke design for a one-off house. In addition the OP mentions air-tightness - more time consuming detailing and specification?

You simply may not get the service you might think you will get?

Is it an urban or rural site?