Stopped By Gardai and asked to produce Licience+insurance

as.eirinn

Hi All...Thought I'd share my story of last week on my way home from work...Half 12 on wednesday night I was stopped at a routine traffic garda checkpoint...upon asking me for my licience I explained to the garda that I didnt carry it(my own reasons)...He then asked me to produce my licence and insurance cert at a nominated garda station...I duely obliged yesterday...I somehow annoyed the garda in charge by having the cheek to ask for a printout stamped and dated by him to prove that I had been there and furnished them with the documentation...all of which was in order...He'd never heard of such a thing, so I explained that 3 months earlier I had been stopped and was given this document no problem by another garda in the same station...he point blank refused to give me the printout...I explained to him that he was legally obliged to give it to me as proof of my visit. He refused again...;I then asked for his name, he refused and gestured to his epilet sayin 'thats all i needed to see'...I made note of his number...He asked me to move away from the desk when I told him that I wasnt leaving the station until I spoke to another garda or his superior...He once again told me to move away...I complied but said I would return the following day...I did!....I spoke to the sargent in charge got an apology from him and the document...
The main reason for this story is to let people know that if you have to produce documents at a garda station you ARE entitled to have it recorded by a document...Why?...If theyre computer crashes, if the garda fails to enter the info on pulse...you maybe summoned to court and charged with failing to produce...This document could mean the difference between an day in court and or points on your licience...None of the Gardai I spoke with on the day heard of this document...They enforce the law but only have a vauge understanding of it...
Happy motoring...

1922

i know this exists.....imo everyone should be given it as proof of production

Nonoperational

Can't understand why he didn't give you some bit of paper to say you were there!

mickdw

Pig headed and just wouldnt give in even when he knew he was wrong I suspect

Guy:Incognito

mickdw wrote: »

Pig headed and just wouldnt give in even when he knew he was wrong I suspect

Same could be said for refusing to carry his licence like the law requires.

as.eirinn

Same could be said for refusing to carry his licence like the law requires.


Nobody was ever prosecuted for not carring theyre licience in the car...the constatution protects you from having to do so...SO!...i do not have to carry any form of identification...it's my right, also no garda has ever tested this for fear of having it thrown out...it's a bad law in my humble opinion...

Absurdum

as.eirinn wrote: »

it's a bad law in my humble opinion...

...that and it's cumbersome and made from super-non-durable paper :P

mickdw

as.eirinn wrote: »

Nobody was ever prosecuted for not carring theyre licience in the car...the constatution protects you from having to do so...SO!...i do not have to carry any form of identification...it's my right, also no garda has ever tested this for fear of having it thrown out...it's a bad law in my humble opinion...

I dont like the law of having to carry my licence either for the simple reason that should it get lost, there is a strong possibility that it could be used for identity fraud etc.

as.eirinn

Absurdum wrote: »

...that and it's cumbersome and made from super-non-durable paper :P

Would you carry your passport in your car???......no you wouldn't

Drummerboy08

mickdw wrote: »

I dont like the law of having to carry my licence either for the simple reason that should it get lost, there is a strong possibility that it could be used for identity fraud etc.

I dont carry my licence on me at all times, but I do leave it in my own car. I drive a lot of different cars during the day, so it would be quite likely that it would get lost at one stage or another.

I also think its a smart move to insist on proof of producing documents - this is something that should be done without having to ask for it.

ForeverYoung90

as.eirinn wrote: »

Would you carry your passport in your car???......no you wouldn't

No because your driving not flying....would you carry your driving licience when on a plane..

mickdw

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

No because your driving not flying....would you carry your driving licience when on a plane..

Missing the point slightly

Absurdum

as.eirinn wrote: »

Would you carry your passport in your car???......no you wouldn't

exactly my point

my old driving licence fell apart because I carried it in my wallet

poppyvalley

as.eirinn wrote: »

Same could be said for refusing to carry his licence like the law requires.


Nobody was ever prosecuted for not carring theyre licience in the car...the constatution protects you from having to do so...SO!...i do not have to carry any form of identification...it's my right, also no garda has ever tested this for fear of having it thrown out...it's a bad law in my humble opinion...

YES! u r legally obliged to produce ur licence on Garda request. It's no big deal, pranny. Just carry ur licence like ur lazer card ( now...u wouldint go anywhere without that) You'd save urself alota hassle and us 2 hav 2 listen 2 u

mickdw

poppyvalley wrote: »

YES! u r legally obliged to produce ur licence on Garda request. It's no big deal, pranny. Just carry ur licence like ur lazer card ( now...u wouldint go anywhere without that) You'd save urself alota hassle and us 2 hav 2 listen 2 u

YEs but your driving licence is a document suitable for setting up bank accounts, credit cards etc. A lazer card is not.
A lazer card can be cancelled but a lost licence will still work for fraudulent purposes.

Donnelly117

as.eirinn wrote: »

Same could be said for refusing to carry his licence like the law requires.


Nobody was ever prosecuted for not carring theyre licience in the car...the constatution protects you from having to do so...SO!...i do not have to carry any form of identification...it's my right, also no garda has ever tested this for fear of having it thrown out...it's a bad law in my humble opinion...

Arent you required by law to carry your drivers license at all times while driving?

danjo-xx

Would be so simple to write note......received licence & insurance cert from joe soap today..10 second job and why any (well some) garda would be surprised at such a request in this day and age is beyond me.

That said I would never have thought to ask for receipt myself but will make sure to do in future if the need arises.

Guy:Incognito

as.eirinn wrote: »

Would you carry your passport in your car???......no you wouldn't

YOu bring it with you on a plane do'nt you.

Tefral

Good on ya OP, Driving an Integra Type R i get pulled over for "random" stops every now and again, the guards are normally nice when they realise im not a scumbag.

However everyonce in a while ya get a guard who asks you to produce your insurance (even though disk is in window) and NCT (same). I duly oblige, however many of my friends have produced and subsequently summons to court for not producing, these get thrown out usually but the missing the days work thing is a pain, so i Always get them to give me a print out, normally its easy but sometimes its like pulling teeth.

To make things easier, i just get them to stamp the back of my cert now with the station stamp with the date, that will suffice in court i would imagine.

Anyway, moral of the story is always get a reciept of producing because ya never know, they might forget to click save, or the system might **** up, or ya might meet a guard who knows ya drive a modified car/doesnt like the look of ya and doesnt click save (yes this happens)

as.eirinn

poppyvalley wrote: »

YES! u r legally obliged to produce ur licence on Garda request. It's no big deal, pranny. Just carry ur licence like ur lazer card ( now...u wouldint go anywhere without that) You'd save urself alota hassle and us 2 hav 2 listen 2 u

Tell you what...the topic was about proof of documention pranny!...not about carring it...read the topic fully before you stick you oar in. now get back to bed, youre up early lackie boy!!!;)

Guy:Incognito

as.eirinn wrote: »

Tell you what...the topic was about proof of documention pranny!...not about carring it...read the topic fully before you stick you oar in. now get back to bed, youre up early lackie boy!!!;)

Your the one who made a point of saying you dont carry your licence despite it being the law.

PCPhoto

mickdw wrote: »

Missing the point slightly

the point is ........ if stopped at a garda checkpoint ....and you dont have your licence with you - when asked by gardai to produce it - you are entitled to get proof you presented it at your nearest garda station.

as.eirinn

PCPhoto wrote: »

the point is ........ if stopped at a garda checkpoint ....and you dont have your licence with you - when asked by gardai to produce it - you are entitled to get proof you presented it at your nearest garda station.

CORRECTAMUNDO!!!

airvan

I just carry my licence and insurance in my wallet. Saves all that hassle and drama of visiting a Garda station. I'm not so paranoid about it falling into the hands of international criminals.

oldyouth

PCPhoto wrote: »

the point is ........ if stopped at a garda checkpoint ....and you dont have your licence with you - when asked by gardai to produce it - you are entitled to get proof you presented it at your nearest garda station.

That's just a Guard being decent and not prosecuting you on the spot. You are obliged to have in your possession your licence while in control of a vehicle

MarkN

Failing to carry a drivers licence is a 1 point offence.

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/licence_offences.php

TestTransmission

Heres an idea,leave your licence in your car

jhegarty

MarkN wrote: »

Failing to carry a drivers licence is a 1 point offence.

http://www.penaltypoints.ie/licence_offences.php

I don't see it

mickdw

airvan wrote: »

I just carry my licence and insurance in my wallet. Saves all that hassle and drama of visiting a Garda station. I'm not so paranoid about it falling into the hands of international criminals.

It doesnt need to be an international criminal to put a licence to wrongful use. If any scumbag happens to pick it up, you can be damn sure he will find a suitable gangster to give him €20 for it.

MarkN

jhegarty wrote: »

I don't see it

I don't know why, it clearly says failure to produce a licence.

I don't think all guards enforce it but it's there.

Guy:Incognito

mickdw wrote: »

It doesnt need to be an international criminal to put a licence to wrongful use. If any scumbag happens to pick it up, you can be damn sure he will find a suitable gangster to give him €20 for it.

Theres probably easily a few hundred licences permenantly lost every year. How many cases of identity theft are we hearing about from it? If a bank gave out credit cards (doesnt any bank issue credit cards without at least lookign for copies of recent bank statements) with just a licence as id you'd have a serious grievance with them.

Being overly paranoid is not good for you.

jhegarty

MarkN wrote: »

I don't know why, it clearly says failure to produce a licence.

I don't think all guards enforce it but it's there.

Producing a license is what the op did at the station. It's not having in the car with you. I think that's only a fine.

Stekelly wrote: »

Theres probably easily a few hundred licences permenantly lost every year. How many cases of identity theft are we hearing about from it? If a bank gave out credit cards (doesnt any bank issue credit cards without at least lookign for copies of recent bank statements) with just a licence as id you'd have a serious grievance with them.

Being overly paranoid is not good for you.

You don't think identity theft exists ?

Vikings

Does the same risk not apply if you leave your house with your keys?

What if you lose them and whoever finds them somehow manages to find out where you live - what then!!? Oh noes.

Serious serious over dramatisation going on in this thread!! An awful lot of talk about "law" in this thread but a distinct lack of quoted legislation to back it up.

Guy:Incognito

jhegarty wrote: »

You don't think identity theft exists ?

I dont worry about it so much I ignore laws or inconvenience myself.

Do you leave your credit cards at home in case you lose them or they get solen?

jhegarty

Stekelly wrote: »

I dont worry about it so much I ignore laws or inconvenience myself.

Do you leave your credit cards at home in case you lose them or they get solen?

As has been pointed out above you can cancel you credit cards with one phone call.

Guy:Incognito

jhegarty wrote: »

As has been pointed out above you can cancel you credit cards with one phone call.

Look , people on this forum are great about bemoaning all things Irish and saying how great this or that is in other countries.

If we were in Germany we'd all be carrying our licence and registration details with us without battign an eyelid, but while we all like to say how great things are on the other side of the fence we whinge and moan if we have to do these things in Ireland.


Why bother trying to get people to do anything at all. Lets just remove seatbelts from cars again, let peopel drive any old dangerous ****heap with whatever licence they choose to have themsleves. Who cares about insurance and sure 3 or 4 pints is grand before driving. Civilised society is for losers.

as.eirinn

I was just suggesting that if you DO have to produce your documents at a garda station...get the printout youre entitled to...that was the overiding point I was trying to get across to everyone...not weather you should carry your licience or not...that was a personal choice of mine and one that I stand by for better or worse...Food for thought, thats all...

as.eirinn

as.eirinn wrote: »

Would you carry your passport in your car???......no you wouldn't

I do actually. I often leave it in the glovebox as I will be either at home with it left in my rented accommodation or vice versa when I need it for going somewhere.

I keep my drivers licence in my wallet at all times as I may be driving different cars and its handy to have ID on you for various different things.

superspark

as.eirinn wrote: »

I was just suggesting that if you DO have to produce your documents at a garda station...get the printout youre entitled to...that was the overiding point I was trying to get across to everyone...not weather you should carry your licience or not...that was a personal choice of mine and one that I stand by for better or worse...Food for thought, thats all...

members of the public are not entitled to the printout of pulse as it is for the gardai only and the law requires people to carry there drivers licence at all times while DRIVING, there's an offence for failing to produce ur licence at the time when stopped and failing to produce after 10 days

kippy

as.eirinn wrote: »

I was just suggesting that if you DO have to produce your documents at a garda station...get the printout youre entitled to...that was the overiding point I was trying to get across to everyone...not weather you should carry your licience or not...that was a personal choice of mine and one that I stand by for better or worse...Food for thought, thats all...

I think most get the point.
Get a receipt in case Pulse crashes and you end up in court.

I wonder how many people keep receipts for all transactions, banking, shopping, order status etc etc......food for thought.

I really dont understand why people have issues with carrying their license inside their wallet anyway. Its obviously part of the law for good reason.

Mine has been there now for 8 years at this stage. It runs out in a few more when I'll get a new one and at that stage hopefully it will be a US style credit card style one, a bit easier to get in the wallet.

as.eirinn

superspark wrote: »

members of the public are not entitled to the printout of pulse as it is for the gardai only and the law requires people to carry there drivers licence at all times while DRIVING, there's an offence for failing to produce ur licence at the time when stopped and failing to produce after 10 days

A written Document with a station stamp would have sufice...I merely wanted proof of attendance...not a tall order, and a lawful request i think you'll agree

Esel

cronin_j wrote: »

However everyonce in a while ya get a guard who asks you to produce your insurance (even though disk is in window)..

The insurance disk does not prove that you are insured to drive the car. The certificate does. Personally, I always carry licence and insurance cert.

cpoh1

esel wrote: »

The insurance disk does not prove that you are insured to drive the car. The certificate does. Personally, I always carry licence and insurance cert.

It wont matter, im always asked to produce at the station regardless of whether I have at the checkpoint, they need to enter the details on pulse.

I have direct experience of what the OP is talking about. Stopped at a routine checkpoint 9 months ago and asked to produce despite showing cert. at the time to the garda. Did so 5 days later without getting a receipt and last month received 4 summons at my door. Non-production of insurance, non display of insurance disk (I have no idea where that came from!!!!) and driving with no insurance. Rang the garda and she insisted that because it wasnt on the system i couldnt have produced it at the time i said i had. I dropped my cert down to her personally and tried to see if I could have her strike it out on the day without me attending court but no joy. Now i have to take a day off work and go to court depite being in the right, ill get off fine but its the inconvenience of it all.

I wish i had gotten a receipt anyway.

Harcrid

I also leave my licence in the car, but that means if I am driving my wifes car I won't have it on me.

The sooner they introduce the credit card style licence the better as I can just leave it in my wallet at all times. The current one is just too big to fit and just ends up falling to pieces if you do put it in there.

Jip

Celtxx wrote: »

I also leave my licence in the car, but that means if I am driving my wifes car I won't have it on me.

The sooner they introduce the credit card style licence the better as I can just leave it in my wallet at all times. The current one is just too big to fit and just ends up falling to pieces if you do put it in there.

Same here, fine during the week in my own car, not so fine at weekends as her car is the main one. I've only had a producer once and didn't get a receipt which I did actually expect and it did have me wondering at the time.

My current licence expires this year, just as well as it's currently in about 4 pieces, I still don't understand why we still don't have the credit card style ones yet.

Marlow

For all you moaners:

It's 2 points for not having the license with you and 1 point for not producing it at the station afterwards. But nobody here seems to be able to read: http://www.penaltypoints.ie/licence_offences.php (top 2 items)

While it can be argued, that the 2 points only is in the case where you driving a vehicle, that you don't have a license for, that is actually assumed until you show them your license.

@OP: It's indeed a very good idea to get a printout or some sort of receipt.

/M

galwaytt

MarkN wrote: »

I don't know why, it clearly says failure to produce a licence

It says 'produce' - doesn't define where, or when. Generally a 'producer' as taken to mean at the station, but I'll let a GTC confirm that on here.

Stekelly wrote: »

Look , people on this forum are great about bemoaning all things Irish and saying how great this or that is in other countries.

If we were in Germany we'd all be carrying our licence and registration details with us without battign an eyelid,

..if we were in Germany we'd have entirely reasonable, durable credit-card style ones, not DIY printed on Kellogg's boxes ones that don't fit ANYWHERE

superspark wrote: »

members of the public are not entitled to the printout of pulse as it is for the gardai only and the law requires people to carry there drivers licence at all times while DRIVING, there's an offence for failing to produce ur licence at the time when stopped and failing to produce after 10 days

as.eirinn wrote: »

A written Document with a station stamp would have sufice...I merely wanted proof of attendance...not a tall order, and a lawful request i think you'll agree

A simpler receipt wouldn't have killed the Garda to give, in any form. This board is full of threads about people who have produced, but have still been summonsed, so it's as much a useful record for the Garda as the OP.

esel wrote: »

The insurance disk does not prove that you are insured to drive the car. The certificate does. Personally, I always carry licence and insurance cert.

Actually, the disc proves nothing. It's not legal document, is widely forged -which is why the GS keep asking for the actual Certs.

cpoh1 wrote: »

It wont matter, im always asked to produce at the station regardless of whether I have at the checkpoint, they need to enter the details on pulse.

I have direct experience of what the OP is talking about. Stopped at a routine checkpoint 9 months ago and asked to produce despite showing cert. at the time to the garda. Did so 5 days later without getting a receipt and last month received 4 summons at my door. Non-production of insurance, non display of insurance disk (I have no idea where that came from!!!!) and driving with no insurance. Rang the garda and she insisted that because it wasnt on the system i couldnt have produced it at the time i said i had. I dropped my cert down to her personally and tried to see if I could have her strike it out on the day without me attending court but no joy. Now i have to take a day off work and go to court depite being in the right, ill get off fine but its the inconvenience of it all.

I wish i had gotten a receipt anyway.

See, all that hassle avoided if a simple receipt was issued as standard. Can't remember, but I think they issue one as std in the UK.

Marlow wrote: »

For all you moaners:

It's 2 points for not having the license with you and 1 point for not producing it at the station afterwards. But nobody here seems to be able to read: http://www.penaltypoints.ie/licence_offences.php (top 2 items)

Sorry, you're incorrect. Maybe you want to read your own link again -it says nothing of the sort. 'Driving without a licence' is NOT driving without the pink piece of paper in your pocket. The pink piece of paper isn't your actual licence - it's only a RECORD of your licence. Your licence is in fact your file with the CoCo, with your entitlements etc on it. 'Driving without a licence' is the offence of driving, UNLICENCED. Nothing to do with pink cardboard. This is why points are put on your 'licence' - the FILE -and the pink thing you hold can be 'clean', but your record, not......
Just ask Noel Dempsey - he got points for that very offence inside the last.......10 days ?....yep, THAT Noel Dempsey, the Minister for Transport :rolleyes:

To illustrate this case that the 'licence' in your pocket is not your actual licence, but your 'file' is, this is how I know: several years ago, a friend of mine decided after many years lapse, that he'd return to motorcycling, and bought a bike. To get insurance, he looked up his licence details, and saw the bike category was blank. Yet he had actually done, and taken, a DoE motorcycle test, years previously. Some 'banter' with the council said that when we went from the old red wallet ones (the stitched ones), when he renewed at one stage, he failed to tick the 'bike' box, and the new pink one(s) subsequently issued over time, all continued to 'lack' the bike entitlement. So now what ? Well, the issuing 'licence' for the actual test, when it was done, was in another Co Co office, and they were contacted. They showed that the test had taken place, been passed, and told (him) that the Record of Note, the 'Licence' - aka the Co Co file - shows that the holder was in fact 'licenced' to drive bikes. The failure to tick the box on a renewal form did not constitute a rescinding of the 'licence', the absence of it by renewals didn't forfeit it, and the entitlement was not lost. A new pink one, with the bike entitlement was subsequently issued by the original CoCo.

Marlow wrote: »

While it can be argued, that the 2 points only is in the case where you driving a vehicle, that you don't have a license for, that is actually assumed until you show them your license.

No, it doesn't. If you drive a vehicle which you are not LICENCED to drive, it is the exact same as having NO licence. There are not 'grades' of licence. Each one, each category, is a separate distinct one, and failure to have the correct one is idictable in it's own right, and no congnisance of the other classes you DO hold, is relevant.

Marlow wrote: »

@OP: It's indeed a very good idea to get a printout or some sort of receipt.

/M

would save a whole lot of hardship.

Marlow

galwaytt wrote: »

No, it doesn't. If you drive a vehicle which you are not LICENCED to drive, it is the exact same as having NO licence. There are not 'grades' of licence. Each one, each category, is a separate distinct one, and failure to have the correct one is idictable in it's own right, and no congnisance of the other classes you DO hold, is relevant.

What I pointed out here, is that until you produce your license, it's assumed, that you are not licensed to drive. If you state, that you have the license for the category of car you driving, you can produce it at the garda station. If you fail to do that, you can actually end up getting 2 or maybe even 3 points, depending on how the outcome in court is.

I've never stated, that there are grades of licenses. I was referring to the categories for vehicles. You just get points/fined on the spot, if the license you produce doesn't have the class of vehicle you are driving, while if you don't produce your license that will get delayed. If you don't produce your license at all, the result is the same. It's assumed you weren't licensed.

/M

cornbb

Just leave your license in your car, tbh if someone stole the car or broke into it to steal the license then identity theft wouldn't be my biggest worry.

Guy:Incognito

galwaytt wrote: »

..if we were in Germany we'd have entirely reasonable, durable credit-card style ones, not DIY printed on Kellogg's boxes ones that don't fit ANYWHERE

.

They fit in the car.:)

Theta

galwaytt wrote: »

Sorry, you're incorrect. Maybe you want to read your own link again -it says nothing of the sort. 'Driving without a licence' is NOT driving without the pink piece of paper in your pocket. The pink piece of paper isn't your actual licence - it's only a RECORD of your licence. Your licence is in fact your file with the CoCo, with your entitlements etc on it. 'Driving without a licence' is the offence of driving, UNLICENCED.

How and why would they apply points to a file (licence) that doesn't exist? It provides no penelty to someone without a drivers licence. Surely it makes more sence its for not having it on you?