Wrongly Summonsed?

LegacyUser

Hi Guys,

Posting here as I need some help on something as I'm not sure what to do. I'll make it as short as I can and someone might be able to point me in the right direction. And not sure if this is in the right place but personal issues seemed appropriate!

Last year I was at a dance event in Kerry. I was part of a random search by the Gardai, and a "party pill" from the head stores was confiscated. I gave it over straight away and explained what it was and where I got it (shop name etc.) and was sent on my merry way.

Just now, a Garda has arrived to the door with a summons for possession of ecstacy and a court appearance in the next few weeks. I've called the Garda Station to speak with the Garda and was told they will be back in tomorrow morning so will call again then. I'm 100% sure what was taken off me at the event was legal (had taken it out of the plastic wrapper it came in myself) but not sure what to do. I have no way of proving it etc. so very worried now that I'll get charged for it. Is there anything I can do bar calling the Garda and explaining? And even then, is there any way the Garda can help?

Hopefully someone can help me out here

Cheap Thrills!

I'd say get a solicitor and request proof you had anything illegal, if the guards still have the evidence then its just a legal high and they can't do anything...its probably just lazy paperwork on the guards side, but still even though it will cost a few hundred, proper legal representation is needed here.

It will probably get thrown out before it goes to court or the Judge might dismiss it if you have a solicitor/barrister and the guards cant prove you had anything illegal.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the reply first of all. I'm not even close to being in a position where I can pay a couple hundred euro to a solicitor at the moment unfortunately. I've been working for the last 4 months pretty much unpaid (long story, wont be relevant), and just finished college last year so I'm really down to nothing.

I'm most worried about being charged for it. I've never been charged (or summonsed) for anything before and it really scares me to think that I could be charged for something I didn't do.

Does anyone else have any similar experiences? And if so, can anyone advise on what to do?

antoinolachtnai

You might be able to get free legal aid. I would find a solicitor and speak to them.

Can't get free legal aid for some reason, and can't afford a solicitor? Tough really, you'll just have to get the money somewhere, because you really need a solicitor.

Could you weather it without a solicitor? Maybe you could but you will likely end up with a conviction you could have avoided. That could have serious consequences later on. Get a solicitor.

LegacyUser

Thanks for advise both. Appreciate it. Annoyed more than anything that this has been put through as it has and very worried about being charged. I presume if I was to go it alone, it'd be my word against the Garda and I'd have no chance. So only option is solicitor?

Stuxnet

it would need to be tested and confirmed to be what the guard says it is for anything to happen, don't panic, you'll be grand
and even if it was one pill, still nothing, you'd get a verbal warning

LegacyUser

BOBBY wrote: »

it would need to be tested and confirmed to be what the guard says it is for anything to happen, don't panic, you'll be grand
and even if it was one pill, still nothing, you'd get a verbal warning

This is what I thought as well but wasn't sure. I presume it would have to be tested before anything went through but I presumed this would have happened before the summons was sent out. That said, it wouldn't make any sense at all, as there's no way it could have tested and proven as ecstasy. Is there a chance that the summons could have been put through without any testing being done?

pickarooney

It's quite likely they confiscated a lot of different pills and mixed them all together.

LegacyUser

This is quite common, the gardai never got a lab report done, just tell your solicitor at your earliest convenience and he'll talk to the guard, you wont be in the dock!

globemaster1986

refilled33 wrote: »

This is quite common, the gardai never got a lab report done, just tell your solicitor at your earliest convenience and he'll talk to the guard, you wont be in the dock!

Get a solicitor! A friend of mine ended up in a sort of similar situation due to no NCT. Stopped by Gardai told had applied and was waiting etc. Guard said grand off you go. Six months or more later a summons arrives in the door. Gardai claiming friend had been told to present licence and proof waiting on NCT at nominated Garda station within 10 days. This was never mentioned at time my friend was stopped (2 passengers confirm this) and also the garda was shown the letter confirming NCT appointment on the side of the road. The so called "nominated station" wasn't even the closest to my friends home, or the one nearest where he was stopped. It was an absolute disgrace and was thrown out by the judge as such! A joke

LegacyUser

Hi Guys, OP here.

Went to the free legal advise centre today and was told to basically get a solicitor and speak to the garda as soon as possible. Got 2 missed calls while I was in there and it turned out to be the garda who had issued the summons (as I had left a message for her this morning). I spoke with her and explained my predicament and she said shes waiting on the test results back tomorrow but shes 99% sure there was traces of ecstacy.

Is there some sort of pre exam they carry out before sending away for full testing? And if so, is there a chance that something could have transfered from my hand (maybe after shaking someone elses hand). In a serious panic about it, and Garda also recommended getting a solicitor and that I wouldn't have to be there for the summons if I did.

I really dont mind a fine (I still feel it is completely undeserved and cant see how it could happen), but a charge against me could lead to not being able to travel in the future and that's what concerns me most.

The Bean Garda said she'd call me back tomorrow with more information and the test results, which in fairness is probably going out of her way to do.

Just in such a panic over it, especially since the summons was issued in november and I'm just getting it now, leaving me no time at all to take time to step back and figure out what to do.

Victor

helpneeded! wrote: »

I spoke with her and explained my predicament and she said shes waiting on the test results back tomorrow but shes 99% sure there was traces of ecstacy.

Taht doesn't sound right - she should ahve had the result before issuing the summons.

Is there some sort of pre exam they carry out before sending away for full testing? And if so, is there a chance that something could have transfered from my hand (maybe after shaking someone elses hand).

I suspect thats clutching at straws.

In a serious panic about it, and Garda also recommended getting a solicitor

Then get one.

I really dont mind a fine (I still feel it is completely undeserved and cant see how it could happen), but a charge against me could lead to not being able to travel in the future and that's what concerns me most.

You have already been charged. It is for a judge to decide whether to convict you or not and then sentence you. Sentence could mean fine, community service or imprisonment (suspended or not) - although for something like this its going to be at the lower end of the scale. Alternatively the Probation Act may be applied and/or a donation to charity suggested.

The Bean Garda

Don't use this phrase. Its rather dated and patronising (its also the wrong spelling) and may result in a more negative view of you.

said she'd call me back tomorrow with more information and the test results, which in fairness is probably going out of her way to do.

No, thats her doing her job.

Just in such a panic over it, especially since the summons was issued in november and I'm just getting it now,

Not unusual.

leaving me no time at all to take time to step back and figure out what to do.

I presume you have a few weeks notice?

LegacyUser

Hi Victor, thanks for input.

Victor wrote: »

Taht doesn't sound right - she should ahve had the result before issuing the summons.

This is exactly what she said. As mentioned above, she'll be calling today with results.

Victor wrote: »

I suspect thats clutching at straws.

May sound like I'm clutching at straws, but I'm completely stuck for an explanation here.

Victor wrote: »

You have already been charged. It is for a judge to decide whether to convict you or not and then sentence you. Sentence could mean fine, community service or imprisonment (suspended or not) - although for something like this its going to be at the lower end of the scale. Alternatively the Probation Act may be applied and/or a donation to charity suggested.

Sorry, wrong terminology used Thanks for clarifying though.

Victor wrote: »

Don't use this phrase. Its rather dated and patronising (its also the wrong spelling) and may result in a more negative view of you.

Gotcha!

Victor wrote: »

I presume you have a few weeks notice?

I got the summons the day before yesterday and its for Wednesday 10th February.

Victor

helpneeded! wrote: »

I got the summons the day before yesterday and its for Wednesday 10th February.

I don't know what the rules are, but that sounds tight.

No offence, but you don't come across on the internet* as the best witness. You really do need a solicitor, I'm sure there would be several locally that would do regular work in the relevant court.



* Admittedly, the judge will see a human being, not someone on the internet.

Jo King

The only reason there might be a summons issued before the test results would be if the six month deadline for applying for a summons was about to run out. Free legal aid will have to be applied for on the day. Bring evidence of income to court. Even by the standards of some guards this story takes the biscuit if it is true.

LegacyUser

Victor wrote: »

I don't know what the rules are, but that sounds tight.

Strange actually, and very annoying, as the application was made on 2nd November. I presume that means it's just been sitting around since then. It leaves me with just over a week to sort things out from the day I got it.

I'm waiting on a call tonight from the Garda, who I hope can clear a few things up for me.

It may sound like I'm clutching at straws again, but surely theres a chance what got taken off of me was mixed up with the guy who was being searched beside me (same person that searched us both, and then bagged what was confiscated seperately).

Am I within my rights to ask for a description of what was confiscated from me? I wouldn't ask, but I've never been more certain of anything before that what was confiscated from me was 100% legal.

Victor

Solicitor.

jimmycrackcorm

What's even more bizarre about this story is that the summons is for a single tablet... not even supply or intent to supply....

unattendedbag

The Garda needs to present a certificate in court from the forensic science lab in Dublin to certify that the item confiscated is or contains ecstasy. They may or may not have confused it with another piece of evidence but to prove this you would need to view the piece of evidence and then declare in front of a judge that this is not the pill that was confiscated from you. But this is severely clutching at straws again. And you are entirely right to be worried as a conviction for drugs (however small the amount) is severe. If will affect the possibility of getting visas for the US, australia, new zealand etc... and even the chance to get a decent job as having a criminal record means you have to declare it when asked and will show up when vetted.


Im just gonna throw this point into the mix OP. How do you know there was not traces of ecstacy in that pill? You often hear of these legal highs from head shops and the "simulated" effects they have but unless you are a master chemist with a criminal law degree then you cant be sure whether they are "legal" or not. I bet the person selling them in the shop doesn't even know what they contain, and reading the ingredients on the back of the wrapper doesn't count. The problem is these aren't regulated so they can put anything they want into the ingredients. It is very well possibile that the pill you had that the garda confiscated had ecstasy in its content to give the effects of being on a high.

Basically you need to sit down and have a serious chat with a solicitor about all this as we cannot be giving out legal advice on boards. This thread would be locked in the legal forum a lonf time ago.

P.S. A summons can be served up to 7 days before the court date.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the input guys.

I was waiting to hear from the Garda today as she said she would call, but had not received a call by 11 so phoned the Garda station. The Garda that answered gave her a call for me and she said she'd call back tomorrow after 2. I really dont have the time to wait but not much else I can do at the moment.

Will get in contact first thing tomorrow morning with a solicitor.

Balls

Reflector

Now I respect the guards and the ****ty job they have dealing with knackers but sometimes I really think they need to take it easy.

See how much this is going to cost.

Judge and court time
her time
Technician time to analyse the pill
Your time
etc

All these resources are going to be in the thousands for wages and time taken. I mean if you were dealing drugs to children then ok your a scumbag but in the hopes that there is a small trace of ecstasy in one pill.???

Sleepy

OP, might be worth going back to that same head shop and buying a package of these pills with a receipt? That way if there is something in the tablets that shouldn't be there you can pass these over to the Garda saying that this was where you got the tablet she confiscated, that here's another sample and ask for them to be tested.

Even if ignorance isn't a defence in the eyes of the law, it wouldn't be the first time a case was dropped in exchange for co-operation.

LegacyUser

Hi Guys, and thanks again for all the input, it's really appreciated.

I got a call from the Garda today to let me know that she still hadnt received the test results, but would call me when she does. Very annoying as time is very much running out.

She said it's "most likely" that what was confiscated didn't get mixed with anything else and when I expressed concern about the uncertainty. I accept that there's no way she could know if there was a mix up as there was another garda handling bagging.

It's so frustrating, but I know theres nothing the Garda can do about it now, apart from give her account, and she'd been as helpful as she can be. It still gets me nowhere closer to out of this mess though

She suggested a lawyer who deals with these cases regularly in this court. I Googled to get a number and had a flick through "RateyourSolicitor.com" (it was the first search result) and he seems to have gotten mostly bad reviews. That said, I've never used the site before and appreciate that it's open to abuse from less than happy previous clients.

I called another solicitor and the receptionist took all my details while waiting for the solicitor to become available, however they will have nobody attending the court in question on that day.Shes passed on another number now so will ring this now.

She mentioned that the solicitor would be making a request for all the documents in question and that this would push the case back a month. I presume this is at added cost to me

In any case, I think I'm doing as much as I can at the moment, and thanks for the suggestions Sleepy, I'll pop in and pick some up just in case this could affect it. Shame if I got caught with them again though

Frustrated but again, don't think I can do much more at the moment.

Will keep everyone posted as I find out.

Thanks Guys

Victor

helpneeded! wrote: »

She suggested a lawyer who deals with these cases regularly in this court. I Googled to get a number and had a flick through "RateyourSolicitor.com" (it was the first search result) and he seems to have gotten mostly bad reviews. That said, I've never used the site before and appreciate that it's open to abuse from less than happy previous clients.

Realise that 70-90% of their clients are criminals and have no problems causing aggro.

Tigger

1 there is no 99% sure there is mdma in yer pill ther is or ther is not
2 if you rae genuine then no head shop is selling madma ridden pills in this climate its a strictly cointrolled substance
3 till they get the result with the mdma content in yer pill they hyave no case agin you after they do if you are sure of your facts they query the chain of evidence. i would be getting a soliciotor cand i would be planning to sue the office in question if you are sure you are sure.

there is a lota bull here aND I DON T mean the op

tiggers have the dyslexia but they are qualified analytical chemists

LegacyUser

As always first of all, thanks for the input guys.

Took the weekend off from worrying, but have put together a list of solicitors in the area to call first thing tomorrow morning. Probably won't get many replies between now and the morning, but any advise on what I should be asking. Obviously, I'll be explaining the situation first of all but will there be much variation in cost between different solicitors?

Also, should I be asking have they had muc experience in criminal cases?

Again, completely new to this so no idea how to even approach it.

Jo King

You should only deal with solicitor who deal in criminal legal aid cases. Find out from the local papers in your area which solicitors are regularly in the District Court in criminal cases. Forget about the rest.

LegacyUser

Jo King wrote: »

You should only deal with solicitor who deal in criminal legal aid cases. Find out from the local papers in your area which solicitors are regularly in the District Court in criminal cases. Forget about the rest.

Hi Jo King, thanks for the advise. It's not my home area, but I'll look through the local directory and ring a few places before settling. The Garda gave me the name of a solicitor who regularly deals with criminal cases in this court so may be a good start to give him a call. I mentioned in earlier posts that this particular solicitor didnt have a great rating on Rate My Solicitor, but again it's open to abuse and "hard feeling" I suppose.

I'll call in the morning and post back here.

Cheers guys.

irishh_bob

helpneeded! wrote: »

Hi Guys,

Posting here as I need some help on something as I'm not sure what to do. I'll make it as short as I can and someone might be able to point me in the right direction. And not sure if this is in the right place but personal issues seemed appropriate!

Last year I was at a dance event in Kerry. I was part of a random search by the Gardai, and a "party pill" from the head stores was confiscated. I gave it over straight away and explained what it was and where I got it (shop name etc.) and was sent on my merry way.

Just now, a Garda has arrived to the door with a summons for possession of ecstacy and a court appearance in the next few weeks. I've called the Garda Station to speak with the Garda and was told they will be back in tomorrow morning so will call again then. I'm 100% sure what was taken off me at the event was legal (had taken it out of the plastic wrapper it came in myself) but not sure what to do. I have no way of proving it etc. so very worried now that I'll get charged for it. Is there anything I can do bar calling the Garda and explaining? And even then, is there any way the Garda can help?

Hopefully someone can help me out here

the guards are not your friends , people you can reason with , they follow set down guidelines and when they issue you with a summons , it means they have made a descision to bring you before the courts , its up to you to hire someone to represent you in court , you could however represent yourself seeing that thier seems to be a degree of confusion surrounding this case , the judge may side with you over the guards , not unheard of for guards to mess up on details

joeybloggs

helpneeded! wrote: »

Is there some sort of pre exam they carry out before sending away for full testing? And if so, is there a chance that something could have transfered from my hand (maybe after shaking someone elses hand). In a serious panic about it, and Garda also recommended getting a solicitor and that I wouldn't have to be there for the summons if I did.

I'm fairly sure they would have a basic Colour change test for MDMA based drugs. It might have failed this test and as such has led to her suspicions, that it's is ectasy. However it might just have similiar chemical makeup, which knowing the crap these Head shops put out there, is quite likely.

If it does go to a lab, it will be properly Identified and quantified.

Hope you understand why your in this postion though. Drugs are never worth it.

LegacyUser

joeybloggs wrote: »

I'm fairly sure they would have a basic Colour change test for MDMA based drugs. It might have failed this test and as such has led to her suspicions, that it's is ectasy. However it might just have similiar chemical makeup, which knowing the crap these Head shops put out there, is quite likely.

If it does go to a lab, it will be properly Identified and quantified.

Hope you understand why your in this postion though. Drugs are never worth it.

Thanks for the clarifiction re the colour change test. I thought they'd have something like this, just didnt know.

As for the drugs part, as far as I'm concerned, I havent done anything wrong. Point taken though - the head shop has ultimately put me in this position.

LegacyUser

joeybloggs wrote: »

Drugs are never worth it.

Charging someone for one pill isn't worth it. Drugs are extremely enjoyable and, obviously, many consider them worth it. If you were around for alcohol prohibition in the US, would you have stopped drinking?

Sorry for the OT. Hope the OP gets a sensible judge. Unfortunately the pills you had are probably illegal now.

LegacyUser

OVER THE MOON!!

Still shaking actually, but got a call from the Garda just now and the results came back negative. Saves me so much time, money, and panic!

To be fair, the Garda was a huge help from the moment I contacted her first, and sounded genuinly relieved and happy for me on the call.

Thanks to everyone whos provided info and opinions on everything throughout this thread, it made everything so much easier being able to vent!

A happy ending............

Tigger

brilliant

pickarooney

Excellent result (in that it was a fair and true one) and it's good to see that you hold no grudge against the gardai who, though over-zealous, were only doing their jobs.

Killed By Death

GREAT NEWS OP!

You see the truth will out in the end!!!

:pac: Happy for ya!

LegacyUser

Hey guys, thanks for all the well wishes. Still couldnt be happier about it.

Like a new lease of life

babychuckles

Great news on the negative test result.
I am sorry to be a worry wort Just paronia on my half im sure but did you ask the garda what happens with the summons now...do they cancel it and send you written confirmation that its all over or do you have to do something to make sure it has gone away for ever and not sitting in the court listings? Apologies if i have made you worry all over again but the news is good on the whole.

irishh_bob

pickarooney wrote: »

Excellent result (in that it was a fair and true one) and it's good to see that you hold no grudge against the gardai who, though over-zealous, were only doing their jobs.

if only they were as zealous in dealing with real crime

jhegarty

Should the op still show up on the court date, just incase there is a "mix-up" ?

Victor

jhegarty wrote: »

Should the op still show up on the court date, just incase there is a "mix-up" ?

Yes. The summons still stands. OP, you or your solicitor still need to go to court.

LegacyUser

Victor wrote: »

Yes. The summons still stands. OP, you or your solicitor still need to go to court.

Are you 100% on this Victor? The first thing I did once I got the call was to ask the Garda what i now needed to do (show up, get a solicitor etc.) and she told me straight away to disregard the summons and continue as if it had never arrived.

I'll call a Garda statiion to confirm now regardless.

LegacyUser

OP,

If anything positive is to come out of this let it be that you stay the hell away from these shops, those so called "legal" highs cause just as much harm, if not more as the illegal ones. They put plant feed in some of them.

Victor

helpneeded! wrote: »

I'll call a Garda statiion to confirm now regardless.

A bit meaningless on a document issued by the court, not the garda.

faceman

I would say that what she probably meant was that she wouldnt be attending court therefore the case would be struck out.

However for piece of mind, best to appear in court on the day unless you get written confirmation otherwise

LegacyUser

confusedmuch wrote: »

OP,

If anything positive is to come out of this let it be that you stay the hell away from these shops, those so called "legal" highs cause just as much harm, if not more as the illegal ones. They put plant feed in some of them.

?

They don't put plant feed in them they just label them as plant feed to get around loopholes. Educate yourself perhaps instead of listening to Joe Duffy and his army of uninformed, uneducated callers. The only thing the OP should learn from this is to be more discreet about taking these things because even though theyre legal theyre still frowned upon and situations like what happened to the OP can happen.

OP delighted for you, You should of never got a summons before they tested it however.

tbh

confusedmuch wrote: »

They put plant feed in some of them.

sunshine, water and air?

LegacyUser

bubg wrote: »

?

They don't put plant feed in them they just label them as plant feed to get around loopholes. Educate yourself perhaps instead of listening to Joe Duffy and his army of uninformed, uneducated callers. The only thing the OP should learn from this is to be more discreet about taking these things because even though theyre legal theyre still frowned upon and situations like what happened to the OP can happen.

OP delighted for you, You should of never got a summons before they tested it however.

Sorry but getting off you head is not my area of study, i've decided to educate myself on more important things in life, like getting a career. You obviously know more about this than I do. Good for you.

Wibbs

OK we've had our say on the plantfeed issue, so lets get back to the topic at hand thanks.

Stuxnet

delighted for you op
did they give you back your pill !!

lets go parrtaay !!

LegacyUser

BOBBY wrote: »

delighted for you op
did they give you back your pill !!

lets go parrtaay !!

Thanks Don't want to push it.

Rang this morning to confirm if I need to be in court or not. Asked for the Garda who issued the summons but she was out on a call. Once I had said my name, the Garda knew straight away and said there was absolutely no need for me to be there. I asked was that 100% and she said yes.

Victor, you seem certain that this has nothing to do with it and that I need to be there. I don't see any reason that both Gardai would have told me not to go unless absolutely certain.

Would really like to have no doubt in my mind before the end of tonight as I've a meeting tomorrow morning and cant miss it. Don't want to let the case go if it's essential that I'm there.