Routes to studying medicine.

techtom

Hi
I am 36 years of age and I have a B.Sc. in Computers along with 12 years experience in computer industry. Finding work in this area is getting harder and harder. Physical sciences were always my first love.

I am currently planning a career change to Medicine or Vetinary am looking for advice on the different routes that exist to achieving this.

Is there any 2 year higher certificate course (leinster area) that can provide me with a means to getting in to University to study Medicine or Vetinary ?

or is there a 4 year course where a transfer to medicine can take place during year 2

Thank you very much in advance for any advice.

G

T-Square

Out of curiosity, does your leaving cert result have anything to bear on the issue?

How about the degree, was it a 2.2 or 2.1, 1.1?

I heard of a women who is 40 yo, and she is studying,
but it'll be 15 years before she makes a living from it.

And the doctors rates are really coming down apparently,
doctors are advising people they know, including their own family,
not to join.

techtom

Hi
I got about 450 points and a 2.2 in University ...

People do things for different reasons .... that woman that is doing it at 40, more power to her if gets what she wants.

piby

techtom wrote: »

Hi
I got about 450 points and a 2.2 in University ...

People do things for different reasons .... that woman that is doing it at 40, more power to her if gets what she wants.

Well you're 2.2 precludes you from doing the graduate course in medicine (you need a 2.1 plus GAMSAT) and I may be wrong but for the standard 5-year course it's 480 LC points plus the HPAT. So you're left with trying the mature student route (not sure how that works tbh but I believe it's problematic enough) or applying to the few universities in England that accept a 2.2. This is all for medicine obviously I don't know about becoming a vet!!

techtom

What about doing a certificate course and then applying for a transfer

MicraBoy

techtom wrote: »

What about doing a certificate course and then applying for a transfer

I think you might be screwed. As far as I know if you have a degree already you are now only able to able to apply for entry through Graduate Medicine route. The criteria for applying is that you MUST have at least a 2.1 from the first degree you acheived. Masters or Ph.D. don't count for anything so you can't do a transfer. You must also achieve an adequate score in the GAMSAT exam.

Trinity do not do Graduate Medicine so I wonder do you have an option of applying as a mature student there? Possibly not as it is the HEA that set the criteria for GradMed rather than the individual Universities.

You would be able to apply in the UK though, or perhaps do undergrad in places like Hungary, which is a popular choice.

Vetinary is a little less strict crtieria, you should check UCD website for info on that.

techtom

Hi Micraboy....

Can you elaborate more on the UK option,please ?

G

Don Keypunch

techtom wrote: »

Hi Micraboy....

Can you elaborate more on the UK option,please ?

G

AFAIK two medical schools in the UK take a 2.2 degree for entry to GEM, St. Georges University London and Nottingham. The fees for GEM in the UK are alot less than Ireland ( £3500 for 1st year ), you need to usually get above 60 in the GAMSAT and have a good deal of healthcare/ voluntary experience aswell. It is to late to apply for the UK for this year, you have to apply to UCAS by October and sit the GAMSAT in September. You could still register for the GAMSAT Ireland now and sit it in six weeks. Try www.newmediamedicine.com for more info, especially this thread.

techtom

GAMSAT .....

I Have a degree in software and it is 1992 since i did chemistry biology and physics.

Closing date for GAMSAT is midnight tonight ....

I could not possibly be prepared for a test by 20th of March ???????????

Don Keypunch

late registration gives you another week or two I think, there is no limit on the amount of times an individual may sit the GAMSAT and the GAMSAT IRL and GAMSAT UK results are both accepted by Irish and UK universities, if you want to get a feel for the exam why not give it a go.

3DataModem

My sister got a 2.2 and is currently studying in St George's in London.

Not an easy route, but definitely an option.

AKK

MicraBoy wrote: »

I think you might be screwed. As far as I know if you have a degree already you are now only able to able to apply for entry through Graduate Medicine route. The criteria for applying is that you MUST have at least a 2.1 from the first degree you acheived. Masters or Ph.D. don't count for anything so you can't do a transfer. You must also achieve an adequate score in the GAMSAT exam.

Trinity do not do Graduate Medicine so I wonder do you have an option of applying as a mature student there? Possibly not as it is the HEA that set the criteria for GradMed rather than the individual Universities.

You would be able to apply in the UK though, or perhaps do undergrad in places like Hungary, which is a popular choice.

Vetinary is a little less strict crtieria, you should check UCD website for info on that.

Apologies for jumping in on the thread but can you still repeat the leaving (even if you have an undergraduate degree like the op with a 2.2), sit Hpat and be accepted on undergraduate medicine on the basis of your combined leaving cert/hpat results?

Piste

Yep that's possible, you just need to have all the requirements in one go. (i.e. if your course requires you to pass irish and another language, you can't use your Irish and French grades from the LC in the 80s, you'd need to sit them again)

The three main ways of doing medicine atm are Undergraduate entry from LC and HPAT, Graduate entry using a 2.1 degree and GAMSAT, or mature student.

As the graduate entry medicine route isn't possible for you, your best bet would be either to resit the leaving cert + HPAT and hope to get in that way, or apply as a mature student and try to get in that way.

techtom

One more option I could do ...

Do another Undergraduate in perhaps "chemistry pharm" DCU get a 2.1 and during 4 years practice GMAT tests. Then apply for Medicine

It would be expensive 2K each year x 4 then if I got Med 20K each year.

The leaving cert would be cheaper and then undergrad Med course fees are cheaper also.

Doing the leaving cert again is a tall order specially since they changed the minimum entry requirement and single sitting rule.


Repeat 3 science subjects + the two Maths subjects
+ "one other" and then get passes ((Ordinary) English Irish and French)

Its years since I done any of this stuff.

Narkius Maximus

techtom wrote: »

One more option I could do ...

Do another Undergraduate in perhaps "chemistry pharm" DCU get a 2.1 and during 4 years practice GMAT tests. Then apply for Medicine

It would be expensive 2K each year x 4 then if I got Med 20K each year.

The leaving cert would be cheaper and then undergrad Med course fees are cheaper also.

Doing the leaving cert again is a tall order specially since they changed the minimum entry requirement and single sitting rule.


Repeat 3 science subjects + the two Maths subjects
+ "one other" and then get passes ((Ordinary) English Irish and French)

Its years since I done any of this stuff.

So potentially you could be 44-45 starting as an intern, with at least ten years training ahead of you at that stage (if things don't change dramatically regarding training schemes).

I don't mean to dent your plans and hopes, but seriously, unless you got straight into a GP scheme, your working life as a 'consultant' could be as little as 10 years if you factor in mandatory retirement at 65 in PS. (this is likely to change though)

Go for it, why not, if it's your passion, but go in eyes wide open, with an informed decision.

On an aside, does anyone know when the 1st batch of GEM interns will be coming on stream?

MicraBoy

techtom wrote: »

One more option I could do ...

Do another Undergraduate in perhaps "chemistry pharm" DCU get a 2.1 and during 4 years practice GMAT tests. Then apply for Medicine

It would be expensive 2K each year x 4 then if I got Med 20K each year.

.......

Its years since I done any of this stuff.

No you can't I'm afraid. Your 2.1 must be in the FIRST degree you did. I know that doesn't make a huge amount of sense but that is the rule. See this document from CAO

As regards it being too late to sit GAMSAT I recommend go and do it anyway. The experience will be good - get Griffiths exam guide as a starting point, and don't panic about not knowing much - and you might suprise yourself. Then sit it again in September with some decent studying under your belt.

I think the thing you need to focus on is getting volunteer work and shadowing a doctor. If you are going the UK route this will be very important at interview stage. newmediamedicine.com will be invaluable in helping you research your options. But seriously don't let the panic merchants sway you from doing the GAMSAT this March if you seriously considering trying for the UK option.

Narkius Maximus wrote:

On an aside, does anyone know when the 1st batch of GEM interns will be coming on stream?

RCSI who were the first into this lark have their first graduates in 2010

AKK wrote:

Apologies for jumping in on the thread but can you still repeat the leaving (even if you have an undergraduate degree like the op with a 2.2), sit Hpat and be accepted on undergraduate medicine on the basis of your combined leaving cert/hpat results?

My understanding is that once you have a degree you are exlcuded from applying by the undergrad route. However I haven't researched that option and don't want to make absolute statements about it. May be it only applies if you meet the criteria for Graduate Medicine. The admissions offices of the colleges will be able to tell you for sure.

techtom

Can one do Leaving Cert Ag Science combination with biology chemistry ?

techtom

MicraBoy ...

Thank you for heads up on "first degree 2.1" cao stipulation.

How ever i contacted admissions, and I am not precluded from going the graduate route (while holding a degree already) however ... Payment defaults back to that of a "graduate entry".

G

Don Keypunch

Sorry to piss on your bonfire but in order to get into GEM in Ireland you have to have a 2i in your FIRST primary degree.

ORLY?

MicraBoy wrote: »

My understanding is that once you have a degree you are exlcuded from applying by the undergrad route. However I haven't researched that option and don't want to make absolute statements about it. May be it only applies if you meet the criteria for Graduate Medicine. The admissions offices of the colleges will be able to tell you for sure.

I don't think this is true actually, I could be wrong but I remember being very surpirsed that when the HPAT was introuduced that there didn't seem to be a stipulation that those who already held degrees couldn't take the test and apply like a regular leaving cert student. I wouldn't go through admissions for info on this - go direct to CAO.

I was very surprised because I think anyone graduation with a 1.1 would fly the HPAT.

Also, not entirely sure again but I think that the first grad med graduates out of RCSI will be in 2011.

HQvhs

AFAIK if you qualify for GEM (i.e. if you have a 2.1 degree) then you can only apply for graduate entry medicine and you are precluded from applying as a mature student.
However, if you do not have a 2.1 degree then you can apply as a mature student for the 5/6 year undergrad courses.

ORLY?

HQvhs wrote: »

AFAIK if you qualify for GEM (i.e. if you have a 2.1 degree) then you can only apply for graduate entry medicine and you are precluded from applying as a mature student.
However, if you do not have a 2.1 degree then you can apply as a mature student for the 5/6 year undergrad courses.

Does anybody have a source for this info? The CAO website simply talks about school leavers, would not anyone repeating the leaving cert or taking it for the first time, qualify as one of these?

RCSI only mention that to use leaving cert results that the leaving cert must have been taken within the three years prior to entry.

There's not much info on the process on the NUIG site.

chocfan

ORLY? wrote: »

I don't think this is true actually, I could be wrong but I remember being very surpirsed that when the HPAT was introuduced that there didn't seem to be a stipulation that those who already held degrees couldn't take the test and apply like a regular leaving cert student. I wouldn't go through admissions for info on this - go direct to CAO.

I was very surprised because I think anyone graduation with a 1.1 would fly the HPAT.

Also, not entirely sure again but I think that the first grad med graduates out of RCSI will be in 2011.

No, I think RCSI will be out in 2010
Also as regards the point about people holding a degree and then doing HPAT to get in that way, I'm open to correction here but I think your HPAT sitting has to be either the year you sit your Leaving Cert or the year immediately after so I reckon those people with a degree would be ineligible unless they went back to repeat the Leaving (which I know people have done successfully)

ORLY?

chocfan wrote: »

No, I think RCSI will be out in 2010
Also as regards the point about people holding a degree and then doing HPAT to get in that way, I'm open to correction here but I think your HPAT sitting has to be either the year you sit your Leaving Cert or the year immediately after so I reckon those people with a degree would be ineligible unless they went back to repeat the Leaving (which I know people have done successfully)

The HPAT can be done in the two years before entry to a medical course but cannot be taken unless you've have applied to sit the leaving or have already sat the leaving cert. It seems that it doesn't matter when the leaving was done???

Are you saying you know somebody who has a degree and went back to do the HPAT and leaving cert to get in? This is what I was trying to clarify because I think this is possible regardless of if a person holds a 2.2,2.1,1.1.

chocfan

ORLY? wrote: »

Yes, the HPAT and leaving cert have to be done in the same year.

Are you saying you know somebody who has a degree and went back to do the HPAT and leaving cert to get in? This is what I was trying to clarify because I think this is possible regardless of if a person holds a 2.2,2.1,1.1.

That's exactly what I'm saying-an Irish person but their first degree wasn't done in Ireland or the UK-not sure if this would make a difference to anything?

ORLY?

So, from what I can tell, anyone who wants to go through the standard med route needs to sit the HPAT and have a leaving cert meeting the points and matriculation requirements from one sitting, that was done within a time period specified by the university (e.g. last 3 years for RCSI).

And ye guys/girls are right about RCSIs first graduates coming out in 2010, I forgot that they took in a group a year before UL started.

techtom

What about dentistry pharma vetinary ? Do same stipulations apply ? One last question when do you start getting paid in medicine ?

chocfan

As far as I know, GAMSAT is only being used for Medical Graduate Entry and HPAT for Medical Undergraduate Entry. Not sure what they use for the others but pretty sure that for the undergrad ones at least, there's no assessment test-just the (minor!!) matter of getting the points in the CAO

As for getting paid as a doctor, that would be from when you start as an intern so after your 5/6 years in college as an undergrad (Dep where you do it) and 4 as a postgrad. Hopefully, for me I'll start getting paid from July 1st!

MicraBoy

Dentistry and Pharma would have to be the mature undergrad route.

Vet at UCD requires GAMSAT but you don't need a 2.1

Was just on the Trinity website. Theres is a link to Mature Entry to Medicine there. This is all it says (remember they don't do GradMed at Trinity):

Applicants to Medicine

Applicants must present a Grade B and a Grade C in two of Physics, Chemistry, Biology at higher Leaving Certificate level or equivalent. All applicants must sit the HPAT-Ireland admissions test which will take place on 27th February, 2010. For more details on this test please click here. HPAT-Ireland test results will assist with short-listing candidates for interview. CAO applications for Medicine must be made online.

briankirby

If all else fails you could apply to eastern europe,if u have the cash.Its where im applying to this year but,be warned that it will be very difficult to return to ireland after graduating from 1 of these colleges.Uk or US would be the options

browne111

Can you do the postgrad in medicine in the uk? or do they only have it as an undergrad?

mrmeindl

browne111 wrote: »

Can you do the postgrad in medicine in the uk? or do they only have it as an undergrad?

Yes

Scientist1

Financially, is it cheaper to do 5 years Undergrad course or 4 year Graduate course???
I have a 1.1 degree in Biochem, MSc in Pharm & 520 points...(only have 1 science subject in Leaving cert though) - can I apply for both courses???
Thanks!

Jessibelle

Scientist1 wrote: »

I have a 1.1 degree in Biochem, MSc in Pharm & 520 points...(only have 1 science subject in Leaving cert though) - can I apply for both courses???
Thanks!

Unfortunately no, because you did so well in your initial degree (1.1) you are only applicable for the Grad Entry route at the moment. You would have to sit the GAMSAT prior to application also.

locum-motion

Scientist1 wrote: »

...I have a 1.1 degree...

What's a 1.1?

Jessibelle

locum-motion wrote: »

What's a 1.1?

A first class honours degree

locum-motion

Jessibelle wrote: »

A first class honours degree

When did they start subdividing 'Firsts'?
I thought Hons degrees come in 1, 2.1, 2.2 and 3.

Jessibelle

locum-motion wrote: »

When did they start subdividing 'Firsts'?
I thought Hons degrees come in 1, 2.1, 2.2 and 3.

They haven't really, it's just become common parlance to refer to a first as a 1:1 for some reason? They're still awarded as above though.

locum-motion

Jessibelle wrote: »

They haven't really, it's just become common parlance to refer to a first as a 1:1 for some reason? They're still awarded as above though.

I know.

Both of my last two posts were facetious.

Sid_Justice

Scientist1 wrote: »

Financially, is it cheaper to do 5 years Undergrad course or 4 year Graduate course???
I have a 1.1 degree in Biochem, MSc in Pharm & 520 points...(only have 1 science subject in Leaving cert though) - can I apply for both courses???
Thanks!

I was talking with a fellow on this forum who told me his friend was able to apply via both. I was under the impression if you were a Graduate, you could not reapply through the standard leaving cert/cao/hpat route but you had to through the 2.1 degree/gamsat route. Having said that, surely you'd still be able to apply to Trinity (as trinity doesn't use gamsat).

If you're interested in the price just I have a few tiny points to make:

You will have to pay fees for the 5 year 'undergraduate routes', they may be cheaper per year but there is no (that I'm aware) structured loans already in place for you. For the 'graduate routes' all the Banks have very nice tailored loans for the graduate med schools. So in terms of getting the loan (assuming you need one) might be considerably easier via the graduate route.

If you're absolutely certain medicine is what you want to do, you should explore the british medical schools. Again to the best of my knowledge, the Scottish schools will not seek fees for undergraduate medicine but the English ones will but they're are considerably 'cheaper' than Irish schools.

People say the cheaper fees will be balanced out by more frequent flying here and there etc. but that's something to find out for yourself.

Just as a tack on. You sound like you'll have no problem getting the GAMSAT score or the HPAT score required to get an admission, for the UK schools, In general, more weight is put on personal statement and work experience. If you've no work experience relevant to medicine (which a lot of us don't) you may find it difficult getting accepted in the UK, but there are some schools that are also pure Gamsat.

Jessibelle

locum-motion wrote: »

I know.

Both of my last two posts were facetious.

Ah, then you must have forgotten to use the sarcastic and facetious font again.

DustyMan

piby wrote: »

Well you're 2.2 precludes you from doing the graduate course in medicine (you need a 2.1 plus GAMSAT) and I may be wrong but for the standard 5-year course it's 480 LC points plus the HPAT. So you're left with trying the mature student route (not sure how that works tbh but I believe it's problematic enough) or applying to the few universities in England that accept a 2.2. This is all for medicine obviously I don't know about becoming a vet!!

If your intrested in studying Medicine in the UK? St. Georges and Nottingham Uni accept 2.2 Degree with GAMSAT. Of course there is a competitve interview too. Very tough to get in. But ....

locum-motion

Jessibelle wrote: »

Ah, then you must have forgotten to use the sarcastic and facetious font again.

See, the thing is I can never remember which one's the sarcastic font, which is facetious and which means both!

maybe I should just stick a or a :rolleyes: on it!

imported_guy

i think someone posted somewhere they were offered a 5 year course even though they applied using gamsat instead of the 4 year course.... how does this work? did they put down the 5 year course in the CAO as well (using LC points) or was it offered as a consolation?, and are the fees the same?

Don Keypunch

Jessibelle wrote: »

Unfortunately no, because you did so well in your initial degree (1.1) you are only applicable for the Grad Entry route at the moment. You would have to sit the GAMSAT prior to application also.

Sorry Jessibelle but you are wrong, if you meet the entry requirements and do the hpat you can apply for entry to undergraduate medicine, just because you are eligable for GEM does not mean you cannot apply using your Leaving Cert points (from years ago) and the HPAT.

Jessibelle

Don Keypunch wrote: »

Sorry Jessibelle but you are wrong, if you meet the entry requirements and do the hpat you can apply for entry to undergraduate medicine, just because you are eligable for GEM does not mean you cannot apply using your Leaving Cert points (from years ago) and the HPAT.

Oh that's good to know I was told at the open days this year that anyone that qualified for Grad entry was automatically shunted down that route, so it's great to hear that's not necessarily the case, especially given those fees :eek:

medguy

Hi guys. I finished my degree this year and want to do medicine. Just wondering can i become a doctor in ireland by studying medicine in eastern europe. Alot of irish people seem to be going to hungary and czech republic. Are the degrees comparable to ireland and the uk ?

who.dunnit

Don Keypunch wrote: »

Sorry Jessibelle but you are wrong, if you meet the entry requirements and do the hpat you can apply for entry to undergraduate medicine, just because you are eligable for GEM does not mean you cannot apply using your Leaving Cert points (from years ago) and the HPAT.

I thought the whole point of the GEM prog was so that students with a degree wouldn't be entering med through the undergrad route? I'm pretty sure in first med in UCC last year there were no mature students...

Kwekubo

locum-motion wrote: »

What's a 1.1?

A double first, which (depending on the university) means either first class honours in two separate subjects, e.g. Biochem and Maths, or first class honours in the same subject in subsequent examinations.

locum-motion

Kwekubo wrote: »

A double first, which (depending on the university) means either first class honours in two separate subjects, e.g. Biochem and Maths, or first class honours in the same subject in subsequent examinations.

My understanding of a double first is that it refers to someone who has done a degree with two 'majors' such as 'History and Philosophy' or (as in your example) 'Maths and Biochemistry', and scored a First in each. However, I've never seen that referred to as a 1.1.
Also, the link that you provided to the dictionary definition of 'Double First' makes no reference to the second part of your definition, so did you just make up that part?
Finally, the poster that prompted this discussion said "I have a 1.1 degree in Biochem", so he doesn't have a double first.

So, basically, there's no such thing as a 1.1, IMO.

weea.c13

techtom wrote: »

Hi
I am 36 years of age and I have a B.Sc. in Computers along with 12 years experience in computer industry. Finding work in this area is getting harder and harder. Physical sciences were always my first love.

I am currently planning a career change to Medicine or Vetinary am looking for advice on the different routes that exist to achieving this.

Is there any 2 year higher certificate course (leinster area) that can provide me with a means to getting in to University to study Medicine or Vetinary ?

or is there a 4 year course where a transfer to medicine can take place during year 2

Thank you very much in advance for any advice.

G

Im a 23 year old science graduate with a 2.2 degree options are limited there are a few colleges in england that will accept you with a good gamstat.
I decided to repeat the lc last year got 565 in points and 208 in hpat if you take the year and repeat the leaving i would reccommend a grind school as they cover the course in a year and the teachers ae usually very good .
also if you want to repeat i would reccomend hpat prep i used med entry as they hav an excellent online course which is easy to use at home in your spare time, practice is great to get aquainted with the style of questioning and with speed reading etc also you cant beat being confident going into the HPAT it will definitly improve your score if your cool and calm.
If you go the lc route mature candidate and cao options are open to you.
if lc is not your thing then there are pre med courses you can take to help with getting into med school in england as a mature candidate.
If you hold a masters and are willing to sit gamstat then a lot of uk colleges are open to you.
Best of luck to you anyway I just got accepted to med this year after sitting lc and i couldnt be happier so if you have a year to spare lc is defo worth a try as gamstat is not easy but i would contact ucas for info on gradate entry in england they are super helpful.