Chavez writes off Haiti's oil debt to Venezuela

digme

Caracas, Jan 26 (IANS/EFE) President Hugo Chavez has announced that he will write off the undisclosed sum Haiti owes Venezuela for oil as part of a regional bloc's plans to help the impoverished Caribbean nation after the devastating Jan 12 earthquake.

I wonder will other nations now follow his lead?

BluePlanet

It would be interesting to see who Haiti owes money to.
Some countries probably will follow suit, but some (USA i'm looking at you) probably won't. Quid pro quo.
Money is the oxygen of Capitalism.

Joey the lips

Amazing.... A socialist putting his words into actions. Any links to this. I think i will frame it and post it to the IMF who agreed to suspend interest payments for "2 years."

ei.sdraob

Joey the lips wrote: »

Amazing.... A socialist putting his words into actions. Any links to this. I think i will frame it and post it to the IMF who agreed to suspend interest payments for "2 years."

oh are yee lot about to be sickened

the US has been going on about forgiving all debt (not just oil) for weeks almost since the earthquake began

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gBy5LC52DuN3V9t4OWEfwWAd8_dg
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iPuvyHqsefyGH6zkwLIU2Vzxbytg
http://ca.reuters.com/article/topNews/idCATRE60S2S820100129


those damned capitalists stealing the glory of your socialist comrades :rolleyes:

digme wrote: »

I wonder will other nations now follow his lead?

Venezuela is the one following lead, cant make it appear as if the Yanks are more "good" than Chavez now can we?

BluePlanet wrote: »

It would be interesting to see who Haiti owes money to.
Some countries probably will follow suit, but some (USA i'm looking at you) probably won't. Quid pro quo.
Money is the oxygen of Capitalism.

you weren't following the news now were you?


and US aint the only one writing of ALL debts

http://finchannel.com/news_flash/World/56313_Italy_says_it_is_ready_to_write_off_Haiti's_$57_mln_debt_/

ei.sdraob

http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/pr/2009/pr09243.htm

1.3 Billion written of this summer (owed to the US) thats after the last hurricane destroyed the country

that brings Haiti's debts to 700 million dollars

and now that debt is being written of too


those evil capitalists how dare they forgive debts :cool:



700 million dollars is only 1 weeks of borrowing we do to pay our welfare and PS, to put things into perspective on how we blow money like coke here in Ireland


btw debt to Venezuela was $295m a fair chunk of that 700m total
why didn't Venezuela forgive this debt in the summer?

lmtduffy

they both have done something good, they have both also done bad things.

There mutual existence doesnt justify bias on either side.

Get over it.

ei.sdraob

lmtduffy wrote: »

they both have done something good, they have both also done bad things.

There mutual existence doesnt justify bias on either side.

Get over it.

well obviously 3 posters taught its a good idea to create a thread

and not include half of the story in order to praise their beloved dictator


funny that when one digs a little under the surface you find the full story, and this Chavez guy is not the hero hes being made out to be, he could have written of this debt after last devastating hurricane or in the summer when a huge chunk of their debt was written of

lmtduffy

ei.sdraob wrote: »

well obviously 3 posters taught its a good idea to create a thread

and not include half of the story in order to praise their beloved dictator


funny that when one digs a little under the surface you find the full story, and this Chavez guy is not the hero hes being made out to be, he could have written of this debt after last devastating hurricane or in the summer when a huge chunk of their debt was written of

Im not denying its not thread worthy its just not that interesting if nots framed in the whole US Vs Chavez rhetoric that gets played out here often.
That leads to people overlooking one sides sins due to the others actions.

ei.sdraob

lmtduffy wrote: »

Im not denying its not thread worthy its just not that interesting if nots framed in the whole US Vs Chavez rhetoric that gets played out here often.
That leads to people overlooking one sides sins due to the others actions.

you are correct, debt writeoffs has been on news for weeks im not sure why sudden urge to create a thread out of it

this whole Chavez trying to paint himself as some sort of hero while ignoring that many other countries, including this one are trying to do everything to help in this natural disaster

why is he using a disaster for political purposes?

lmtduffy

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why is he using a disaster for political purposes?

My guess is because hes a politician...

dlofnep

Fair play to Venezuela and the US. Anyone writing off debts will seriously help the country get back up on it's feet. Let's not turn this into an us versus them issue. Good is good, no matter who is doing it.

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you are correct, debt writeoffs has been on news for weeks im not sure why sudden urge to create a thread out of it

this whole Chavez trying to paint himself as some sort of hero while ignoring that many other countries, including this one are trying to do everything to help in this natural disaster

why is he using a disaster for political purposes?

I'm sorry - but why must he be using it for political purposes? Perhaps he just wants to help the Haitian people?

At least be consistent with your views. You were quick to tell us how the US wrote off debt.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

I'm sorry - but why must he be using it for political purposes? Perhaps he just wants to help the Haitian people?

At least be consistent with your views. You were quick to tell us how the US wrote off debt.

did you read the one sided "masturbation" in the first 3 posts in this thread? (excuse the graphic use of language)

someone had to bring in balance and remind people of the full story

dlofnep wrote:

Fair play to Venezuela and the US. Anyone writing off debts will seriously help the country get back up on it's feet. Let's not turn this into an us versus them issue. Good is good, no matter who is doing it.

of course and fairplay to everyone whos helping (and considering that 295m out of the 700m debt was to Venezuela, about time he forgave this debt, other countries have forgave 1300m in the summer before the quake and are now writing off the remainder)

this thread was started as if Chavez is the only one doing good (once again read the first 3 posts), which is rather wrong as so many countries and organisations are helping

BluePlanet

Actually the USA hasn't written off the debt.
The first link from ei.sdraob is PR statement from Mrs. Clinton that basically means nothing.

The 2nd link is a proposed Bill (proposed by 2 whole senators)

Two influential US senators unveiled plans Thursday for legislation aimed at speeding quake-ravaged Haiti's recovery, citing needs for debt forgiveness, reconstruction and trade.

In the highly partisan cesspit of Washington, i think i'll wait before trumpeting that little number.

And the 3rd link concerns Italy (Socialist Europe).

Anyway there is a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
And it states:

With the devastating effects of the early 2010 earthquake in Haiti there came renewed calls for a further debt cancellation from civil society groups. In light of the tragedy and Haiti's debts still standing at $1 billion, groups such as the Jubilee Debt Campaign called for this debt to be dropped. Furthermore, during the aftermath emergency money was offered to the Haitian government from the IMF and US government in the form of loans. Civil society groups protested the offer of loans and not grants for such an already heavily indebted country trying to cope with such destruction.

Loans are not charity.

ei.sdraob

BluePlanet wrote: »

Actually the USA hasn't written off the debt.
The first link from ei.sdraob is PR statement from Mrs. Clinton that basically means nothing.

The 2nd link is a proposed Bill (proposed by 2 whole senators)
In the highly partisan cesspit of Washington, i think i'll wait before trumpeting that little number.

And the 3rd link concerns Italy (Socialist Europe).

Anyway there is a Wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_debt_of_Haiti
And it states:

Loans are not charity.

firstly their debt is 700 million not 1 billion

1.3 billion was already written of this summer bringing the figure to 700 million, see the IMF link earlier

secondly 295 million was owed to Venezuela for oil (being written off), 55 to Italy (being written off)

rest is proposed to be written off and no that money is not owed to US alone, see below


but lets ignore these facts shall we


btw if you read that very same wiki article you posted link to (Selective reading problem you have?), would see exactly same being mentioned as i wrote earlier and referenced

Haiti had a total external debt of 1.8 billion dollars at peak.[6][7] In April, Haiti was added to the World Bank and IMF's highly indebted poor country initiative (HIPC) following the election of new president René Préval. In September 2009, following a program of economic and social reforms, Haiti met the requirements for completion of the HIPC program, qualifying it for cancellation of its external debt obligations. This amounted to $1.2 billion in cancellation, leaving the remaining $800 million as its debt.[8]

and this is very interesting

Haiti's largest creditor, the Inter-American Development Bank (IDB), is not part of the debt relief initiative. Haiti's debt to the IDB amounts to approximately half a billion dollars with debt service payments projected by the IMF to increase in the following years.

read up on IDB here > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter-American_Development_Bank

The United States holds 30 percent of the Bank's shares, while the countries of Latin America and the Caribbean combined hold 50.02 percent[2

quick whats 30% of 500million?

funny how Haiti owed more money to Venezuela than US

no?

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

did you read the one sided "masturbation" in the first 3 posts in this thread? (excuse the graphic use of language)

someone had to bring in balance and remind people of the full story

No, I just felt that you were quick to give props to the US, but attack Venezuela in the same post, for doing the exact same thing. As much as it hurts you to do so - you should just accept that debt-relief, no matter who does it - is a noble thing to do, and is for the betterment for the Haitian people. Let's not try use it as an excuse to have a dig at Chavez, or the US or whomever else.

Victor

ei.sdraob wrote: »

firstly their debt is 700 million not 1 billion

Then you go on to give links for $800 million + $500 million. :rolleyes:

Do you object to using the dollar symbol?

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

No, I just felt that you were quick to give props to the US, but attack Venezuela in the same post, for doing the exact same thing. As much as it hurts you to do so - you should just accept that debt-relief, no matter who does it - is a noble thing to do, and is for the betterment for the Haitian people. Let's not try use it as an excuse to have a dig at Chavez, or the US or whomever else.

i agree with you, my posts were made specifically to bring some facts into the threads since the first 3 posts were fud


and they have forgot to mention that US already has a history of debt forgiveness to Haiti by writing off 1.2 to 1.3 billion this summer while Chavez decided to write of his debt only recently

at the time of the earthquake Haiti owed more money to Venezuela (295m) than US (150m)

remainder owed to the US (150million) is proposed to be written of (referenced earlier)

ei.sdraob

Victor wrote: »

Then you go on to give links for $800 million + $500 million. :rolleyes:

Do you object to using the dollar symbol?

:rolleyes:

that 500 million is part of of the total 700-800 million debt

out of the 500m , 150m is owed to US

all in $

as per my references

not 800+500
but then again if you bothered to read the links you would have understood that :rolleyes: and not post trash

Victor

So is it $700 million or 800 million

ei.sdraob

Victor wrote: »

So is it $700 million or 800 million

i dont know the exact figure

wikipedia quotes 800 million now
imf quotes 700 million in summer 2009
its entirely possible that they racked up 100 million debt in the 5-6 months to 2010

---

here are the facts that are known and referenced earlier:

* 1.2 to 1.3 billion was written of in summer 2009, most of this was owed to US but written off

* at time of earthquake:
** 295 million was owed to Venezuela in an oil program, similar to program Venezuela has with Cuba, i dont know if this figure was counted as external debt, this is being written off
** 500 million is owed to IDB, with US owning 30% of that @ 150m
** 55 million was owed to Italy who have written it off

these are the facts that are known and referenced, all figures are in US dollars

theres now a campaign to write off any remaining debts, which are mostly owed to other latin american countries

now put the above facts in the context of the first 3 posts in this thread, why was this information ommited and only 1 facet (Venezuela) of the story told while ignoring the bigger picture?

ei.sdraob

btw

Venezuela is one of the founding member countries of the IDB.

http://www.iadb.org/countries/membership.cfm?id_country=VE&lang=en

loads of interesting info there



Venezuela has forgiven 295m$ in oil loans



will they also forgive the money (30m$) that is still owed to it, by Haiti via IDB mechanism (who Venezuela are a contributing member of)

as the US (150m$) is trying to do?

/

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i agree with you, my posts were made specifically to bring some facts into the threads since the first 3 posts were fud


and they have forgot to mention that US already has a history of debt forgiveness to Haiti by writing off 1.2 to 1.3 billion this summer while Chavez decided to write of his debt only recently

at the time of the earthquake Haiti owed more money to Venezuela (295m) than US (150m)

remainder owed to the US (150million) is proposed to be written of (referenced earlier)

The earthquake was a definitive moment - that's probably why he decided to write it off then. In either case, it was a noble thing to do. Chavez's detractors will always be his detractors, so he won't win any merit badges from them with this move. Those who like him will always like him, so he's not really gaining anything from it tbh.

It was a noble move by him and the US to write off debt.

ei.sdraob

dlofnep wrote: »

The earthquake was a definitive moment - that's probably why he decided to write it off then. In either case, it was a noble thing to do. Chavez's detractors will always be his detractors, so he won't win any merit badges from them with this move. Those who like him will always like him, so he's not really gaining anything from it tbh.

It was a noble move by him and the US to write off debt.

yes it was, and i hope he writes of the rest of money owed to them
and so do the other countries and organisations who have debt owed to them by Haiti,
the country is broke, "you cant squeeze money out of a rock" as they say

pitty that that BluePlanet & Joey the lips tried to put a spin on this story while ignoring the bigger picture and events

Exile 1798

Quite apart from the US or Venezuela and forgiveness of debts it the question of France and paying back the money they extorted from Haiti for over a hundred and fifty years - estimated to be 21.5 billion dollars US.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/01/04/reparation_day/?page=2

This stolen money should be returned to Haiti at once.

ei.sdraob

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Quite apart from the US or Venezuela and forgiveness of debts it the question of France and paying back the money they extorted from Haiti for over a hundred and fifty years - estimated to be 21.5 billion dollars US.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/ideas/articles/2004/01/04/reparation_day/?page=2

This stolen money should be returned to Haiti at once.

my god thats pure daft :eek:

they had independence for far longer that we did btw

The British should also pay us back for the inconvenience of colonization so
i wonder what that ammounts to maybe it'll lift us out of this recession

Exile 1798

Haiti won Independence, France blockaded it with the help of America and Spain, threatened to reinvade the country if they weren't paid "compensation" of 150 million Franc's. Under such coercion, the Haitian government acquiesced.

This money was paid, year in year out for 150 years – up until 1947.

If this was done on a small scale it would be considered a terrible crime. Black mail is a serious criminal offense. No doubt you would consider some thug involved in a Tiger kidnapping a scumbag.

Why does it become "pure daft" for basic justice to be served when this crime is committed on an epic scale? Why in your mind is smothering the life out of a new born Nation and condemning millions to impoverishment not a crime worthy of redressing?

ei.sdraob

you didnt answer my question

should the British redress Rep of Ireland for their "colonization" of this island? colonization which lasted longer and resulted in millions of deaths


btw 1947 falls on interesting time-frame > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_Act_1948

it is daft to be digging up the past, especially 200 year old past, by your reasoning Germany should still be paying the rest of Europe and Japan be paying most of Asia for WW2 damages which resulted in dozens of millions dead and better part of 2 continents in ruins

Eliot Rosewater

In other news, the Irish government is talking a case to the ECHR against Norway looking for compensation for the Viking raids...

Exile 1798

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you didnt answer my questions

should the British redress Rep of Ireland for their "colonization" of this island? colonization which lasted longer and resulted in millions of deaths


btw 1947 is an interesting year > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland_Act_1948

Well you didn't use a question mark so I assumed they where statements.

As you can see from my previous post the issue is not one of the wealth that was extracted from Haiti before it was a free and independent Nation. That is unquantifiable and is not was being asked for.

For your question to be a valid comparison it would require a situation where after Irish indpendence Britain with the threat of re-invasion extorted an enormous sum in “compensation” from Ireland which would take generations to pay of and completely cripple the country.

In such a case, yes I would absolutely demand that that money be paid back. Wouldn’t you?

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

it is daft to be digging up the past, especially 200 year old past, by your reasoning Germany should still be paying the rest of Europe and Japan be paying most of Asia for WW2 damages which resulted in dozens of millions dead and better part of 2 continents in ruins

You know Germany still pays reparations to Israel right? Of course you did....

Joey the lips

ei.sdraob wrote: »

oh are yee lot about to be sickened

You did not read my post before you replied. I said the IMF. There is no doubt in my mind what the US has done is brilliant.

ei.sdraob

Exile 1798 wrote: »

For your question to be a valid comparison it would require a situation where after Irish indpendence Britain with the threat of re-invasion extorted an enormous sum in “compensation” from Ireland which would take generations to pay of and completely cripple the country.

In such a case, yes I would absolutely demand that that money be paid back. Wouldn’t you?

if you bothered to read the thread you would see that a huge chunk of their debt was written of already last year before the earthquake

and the rest (700-800m$) is being written of by various countries after this earthquake

but way to dig up 200 year old dirt, that was very amusing

also if you happen to look at a map notice that the Hispaniola Island (do the Spanish owe them money too for colonization?) contains 2 countries with island being split in middle, with Dominican republic gaining complete independence later yet one has 5 times the gdp per capita of the other (and thats before the quake)

ei.sdraob

Joey the lips wrote: »

You did not read my post before you replied. I said the IMF. There is no doubt in my mind what the US has done is brilliant.

tell me where the link URL in 5th post points to?

this is what you said

Joey the lips wrote: »

Amazing.... A socialist putting his words into actions. Any links to this. I think i will frame it and post it to the IMF who agreed to suspend interest payments for "2 years."

you forgot to mention that IMF was one to write off the large chunk of their debt in summer

most of that money was given as loans to build up the country, by writing it off it ends up being a large gift to the country, i dont see Venezuela gifting billions to help build up Haiti

brianthebard wrote: »

You know Germany still pays reparations to Israel right? Of course you did....

do the Russians get a cent for 20 odd million killed in WW2? how about the French whose country ceased to exist in that time period? Exile 1798's linked idea is daft and is digging up old dirt

Exile 1798

ei.sdraob wrote: »

if you bothered to read the thread you would see that a huge chunk of their debt was written of already last year before the earthquake

and the rest (700-800m$) is being written of by various countries after this earthquake

but way to dig up 200 year old dirt, that was very amusing

also if you happen to look at a map notice that the Hispaniola Island (do the Spanish owe them money too for colonization?) contains 2 countries with island being split in middle, with Dominican republic gaining complete independence later yet one has 5 times the gdp per capita of the other (and thats before the quake)

You really have trouble with comprehension don't you?

It's not about debt - it's about extorted money. We're not talking about 200 years ago but an extortion racket that lasted up until 1947.

I am aware of the reality that this stolen money won't be paid back.

Alas that might can vanquish right.

However, as a principle I still support right. It's an interesting mentality that some people have that they will support might over right.

And you didn't answer any of my questions of why you seem to think crimes commited on a huge scale are acceptable?

I'll ask another. Earlier in this thread you praised the US and other governments for "forgivng" debt accrued by Haiti. Why then do you not support the return of money stolen from the country?

It really is all about power for you isnt it? You can like the act of the wealthy nation forgiving the debt of the poor wretched nation, but the idea of actual economic justice between rich and poor nations disgusts you.

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

most of that money was given as loans to build up the country, by writing it off it ends up being a large gift to the country, i dont see Venezuela gifting billions to help build up Haiti

really?

http://www.cubavsbloqueo.cu/Default.aspx?tabid=2584

do the Russians get a cent for 20 odd million killed in WW2? how about the French whose country ceased to exist in that time period? Exile 1798's linked idea is daft and is digging up old dirt

Is that your way of saying you were wrong?

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

really?

http://www.cubavsbloqueo.cu/Default.aspx?tabid=2584

i dont see any billions being mentioned? how much exactly has venezeula spent on aid?


hows your maths?

whats a larger debt number that was written off

295 or 1200?

Exile 1798 wrote: »

I'll ask another. Earlier in this thread you praised the US and other governments for "forgivng" debt accrued by Haiti. Why then do you not support the return of money stolen from the country?

It really is all about power for you isnt it? You can like the act of the wealthy nation forgiving the debt of the poor wretched nation, but the idea of actual economic justice between rich and poor nations disgusts you.

once again how about the money and resources "stolen" by the British while they occupied Ireland? do we get that back too

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hows your maths?

whats a larger number

295 or 1200?

Haha. So you're wrong again, but this time the problem is Venezuela didn't give enough? extra lolz.

once again how about the money and resources "stolen" by the British while they occupied Ireland? do we get that back too

It would be nice wouldn't it? Going to admit you were wrong about reparations yet?

Exile 1798

ei.sdraob wrote: »

hows your maths?

whats a larger number

295 or 1200?




once again how about the money and resources "stolen" by the British while they occupied Ireland? do we get that back too

Anyone that reads this thread will notice that I've already answered that question yet you have avoided answering any of mine.

Why are you dodging?

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

Haha. So you're wrong again, but this time the problem is Venezuela didn't give enough? extra lolz.

i asked for figures to show that Venezuela has given or written off billions (or equivalent)

you posted a link to a cuban site

so where is the $$$ ? show me the money

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Anyone that reads this thread will notice that I've already answered that question yet you have avoided answering any of mine.

Why are you dodging?

what are you dodging, you linked idea is downright daft

im still waiting on an answer as to: does ireland deserve money for damage done by the British

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

Haha. So you're wrong again, but this time the problem is Venezuela didn't give enough? extra lolz.

let me point you to OPs post

digme wrote: »

Caracas, Jan 26 (IANS/EFE) President Hugo Chavez has announced that he will write off the undisclosed sum Haiti owes Venezuela for oil as part of a regional bloc's plans to help the impoverished Caribbean nation after the devastating Jan 12 earthquake.

I wonder will other nations now follow his lead?

i have shown in this thread, that not only have other nations "followed" lead but they also have written off huge amounts of debt only a few months before the earthquake and in the aftermath of the hurricanes which have also devastated the country not too long ago

BluePlanet wrote: »

It would be interesting to see who Haiti owes money to.
Some countries probably will follow suit, but some (USA i'm looking at you) probably won't. Quid pro quo.
Money is the oxygen of Capitalism.

i have also shown that money is still owed to Venezeula (and other latin american countries) via IDB bank loans


so far im the only one posting figures, references and facts to show that theres alot more to this story than were being told
while i get thrown all sorts of hysterical "you evil bastard" type emotive posts in reply

Exile 1798

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i asked for figures to show that Venezuela has given or written off billions (or equivalent)

you posted a link to a cuban site

so where is the $$$ ? show me the money



what are you dodging, you linked idea is downright daft

im still waiting on an answer as to: does ireland deserve money for damage done by the British

Once again, I've already answered that question in post 30.

You didn't reply to my answer because you couldn't. By repeating this question and continuing to pretend that this question hasnt been answered you are lying outright.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64235785&postcount=30

Mods, I trust that calling out a lie isn't considered ad hominem if it is factual and easily verifiable.

SLUSK

I assume that these loans were funded by the taxpayers so writing off the debt is the equivalent of stealing tax payers money. In politics the worst thieves get rewarded really well.

ei.sdraob

Exile 1798 wrote: »

Once again, I've already answered that question in post 30.

You didn't reply to my answer because you couldn't. By repeating this question and continuing to pretend that this question hasnt been answered you are lying outright.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64235785&postcount=30

Mods, I trust that calling out a lie isn't considered ad hominem if it is factual and easily verifiable.

heres your post and my answer

Exile 1798 wrote:

For your question to be a valid comparison it would require a situation where after Irish indpendence Britain with the threat of re-invasion extorted an enormous sum in “compensation” from Ireland which would take generations to pay of and completely cripple the country.

In such a case, yes I would absolutely demand that that money be paid back. Wouldn’t you?

no I would not demand money to be paid back, do you know why?

1. since its history

2. what you described has happened in 20th century here in Europe, after WW1 Germany was forced to "compensate" several countries under Versailes agreement, that left Germany crippled and helped Hitler (woot! i Goodwinised the thread) rise to power as "generations had to pay of and completely cripple the country"

3. both Ireland, Dominican Republic and Haiti emerged from under colonial boot (and "extortion") at around same time mid 20th century
GNP per Capita of these 3 countries > http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:IRL:DOM:HTI&tstart=315532800000&tunit=Y&tlen=28
the current problems of Haiti have feck all to do with colonization or subsequent "extortion", as its neighbor Dominican Republic who share half of the Hispaniola island and are not doing too bad as a country demonstrates. Why does Dominican republic with almost same land area, population and history has 5x the wealth per person that Haiti?

some more stats >
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:IRL:HTI:DOM&tstart=-315619200000&tunit=Y&tlen=48

/

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i asked for figures to show that Venezuela has given or written off billions (or equivalent)

you posted a link to a cuban site

so where is the $$$ ? show me the money

Right so you didn't read the article I take it? Cause if you did then there would be no need to ask where the money is, and you'd have to admit you're wrong. Again.

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

Right so you didn't read the article I take it? Cause if you did then there would be no need to ask where the money is, and you'd have to admit you're wrong. Again.

i did read the article, it was nice of Cuba and Venezuela to help, but that aid doesnt not come close to how much money was given to Haiti to build up a country and infrastructure, and then written off

and of course other countries have provided aid to Haiti too

anyways this thread is about debt and forgiving debt, why are you mucking the waters by dragging aid into this?

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

so far im the only one posting figures, references and facts to show that theres alot more to this story than were being told
while i get thrown all sorts of hysterical "you evil bastard" type emotive posts in reply

Aww, you poor wee thing you. It must be hard having to stand up for little old capitalism all on your own against the mighty extreme left wingers on this forum huh?:rolleyes: There there, I've made it better for you by posting a link to an article which states that Venezuela was already giving Haiti money last year, before the earthquake. So far from this being posturing on Chavez's part its par for the course at this stage. But sure you were probably so shook from those 'emotive posts' (which you'd never do, of course) that you were temporarily unable to read articles. Isn't that so?

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyways this thread is about debt and forgiving debt, why are you mucking the waters by dragging aid into this?

I was answering your question. I suppose you didn't really want it answered, but instead wanted to keep telling us what a prick Chavez is, right?

Flamed Diving

I hear that Israel are suing Egypt for damages caused in the Old Testament. I also hear that humanity are suing God on the grounds of unfair dismissal from the Garden of Eden Corp. A teenager who 'didn't ask to be born' is suing the Universe for forming.

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

I was answering your question. I suppose you didn't really want it answered, but instead wanted to keep telling us what a prick Chavez is, right?

erm what the **** are you talking about

1. i wasnt the one who started the thread

2. if you read the first 3 posts the posters praise Chavez while critising the evil capitalists, i have shown this to be not only false but very wrong, as many countries are helping Haiti and have helped before the quake

3. where have i said that Chavez is a prick? if anything myself and @dlofnep agreed (now theres something! we never agree on anything usually ) that its a good thing thats being done and all of the debt should be written off:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64234563&postcount=18
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64235209&postcount=23
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64235247&postcount=24

4. im not the one whose using a disaster for political dickwaving

brianthebard wrote: »

Aww, you poor wee thing you. It must be hard having to stand up for little old capitalism all on your own against the mighty extreme left wingers on this forum huh?:rolleyes: There there, I've made it better for you by posting a link to an article which states that Venezuela was already giving Haiti money last year, before the earthquake. So far from this being posturing on Chavez's part its par for the course at this stage. But sure you were probably so shook from those 'emotive posts' (which you'd never do, of course) that you were temporarily unable to read articles. Isn't that so?

thats right keep attacking me while failing to address or ignoring any of the points brought up in the thread, as a moderator you should know better how to debate

.

Exile 1798

ei.sdraob wrote: »

heres your post and my answer



no I would not demand money to be paid back, do you know why?

1. since its history

2. what you described has happened in 20th century here in Europe, after WW1 Germany was forced to "compensate" several countries under Versailes agreement, that left Germany crippled and helped Hitler (woot! i Goodwinised the thread) rise to power as "generations had to pay of and completely cripple the country"

3. both Ireland, Dominican Republic and Haiti emerged from under colonial boot (and "extortion") at around same time mid 20th century
GNP per Capita of these 3 countries > http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=ny_gnp_pcap_pp_cd&idim=country:IRL:DOM:HTI&tstart=315532800000&tunit=Y&tlen=28
the current problems of Haiti have feck all to do with colonization or subsequent "extortion", as its neighbor Dominican Republic who share half of the Hispaniola island and are not doing too bad as a country demonstrates. Why does Dominican republic with almost same land area, population and history has 5x the wealth per person that Haiti?

some more stats >
http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=wb-wdi&met=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:IRL:HTI:DOM&tstart=-315619200000&tunit=Y&tlen=48

/

If in such a situation you wouldn't demand that extorted money back then you are very clearly on the side of the thief and against the victum.

1) It's history - it's recent history, living memory history that has made a major effect on the present.

2) In your ill fitting Verailes comparison Haiti takes the place of Germany. As I understand it you're saying that what was demanded of Germany was wrong, so what then was is your point?

3) You're making stuff up. The Dominican Republic does not have the "same" history as Haiti. They have a shared, but different history just as Ireland and Britian do.

I would I imagine the disparity has a lot to do with the different experience of the countries under colonization and their treatment by the great powers after independence. Though I'm sure you'd have us believe it's actually because the Dominicans are great hard working capitalists and the the Haitians havent embraced neo-liberalism or some nonsense like that.