Does Satan exist?

Darlughda

Is there such a thing as Satan?

It seems to me that if you are a Christian you believe in Satan.

But if you are an atheist and are told folk are worshipping Satan it seems really silly.

Many of us do not believe in the devil nor satanism so therfore how can we believe that worshippers can cause us harm or that there is anything they do that can affect us?

I am not a Christian, and I have no religion and I find it bizarre that the intent of polarity is paramount here. I see no evidence of true spirituality.

We are humans. that is all.

Tristram

At first glance I thought this was a conspiracy theory about satin. Now I am disappointed.

Victor

Darlughda wrote: »

Does Satin exist?

It does. I've seen bed sheets made of it.

mikom

Darlughda wrote: »

Does Satin exist?

Why have Satin when you can have silk?

Darlughda

Right thats it

No I mean the devil fella Satan!

Its just aloada boll0x innit?

big scaery hoof horned fella randy as ****

this is big scary satan?

RoboClam

Satin only exists if you believe in nylon and silk!

Joking aside, there is no physical or scientific evidence of Satan. This is what I rely on when verifying claims. But this is a question of belief, so my opinion doesn't really matter here.

However, I suppose that peoples belief in an ultimate evil entity could influence their actions. People that are motivated by religion have the capacity to preform some crazy deeds.

I really am not convinced that "Satanists" as a whole are in any way evil though. To me, it seems like a fad which people grow out of and not an evil global entity.

DoireNod

RoboClam wrote: »

To me, it seems like a fad which people grow out of...

Just like most religions then? :pac:

mysterious

RoboClam wrote: »

Satin only exists if you believe in nylon and silk!

Joking aside, there is no physical or scientific evidence of Satan. This is what I rely on when verifying claims. But this is a question of belief, so my opinion doesn't really matter here.

However, I suppose that peoples belief in an ultimate evil entity could influence their actions. People that are motivated by religion have the capacity to preform some crazy deeds.

I really am not convinced that "Satanists" as a whole are in any way evil though. To me, it seems like a fad which people grow out of and not an evil global entity.

I don't need to give my thoughts on this.

But Robo you mean, you don't have phyiscal evidence or proof, he does or doesnt exist.

seanybiker

Na I dont think he exists. If he did I would love to have a pint or two with him and ask him what he does to pass the time. I imagine he would be some laugh on a night out.

major bill

well in theory there is no satan or hell in the christian religion as god forgives those that sin. although not everyone goes to heaven the dead have to make a very long pitstop in purgatory first and been quite honest purgatory scares the sh1t outta me more if it is to be believed.:eek:

Mahatma coat

OH I had some really good Bedding related Puns but I'll spare ye

I've always found the Church stance on Satan a bit weird Both God and the Divvil wants your soul,
god offers eternal salvation for Acts of Goodness
So why does the Devil offer eternal damnation, surely he'd reward you for the evils ya comit, In my version of Hell there would be Mongol hordes and Viking Raiders chillin round the Pool drinkin Pints and havin a laugh with the SS campguards and the Pedophile priests.


Reminds me of a funny but longwinded joke about a guy going to hell.

Punchline is

thats the ChristianFundies, They demanded it

:D:D

Kernel

major bill wrote: »

well in theory there is no satan or hell in the christian religion as god forgives those that sin.

Of course that presupposes that 'the devil' has asked God for that forgiveness. Unlikely with pride and jealousy etc.

OP: I have long ago come to the conclusion that asking of proof for god/heaven or the devil through empirical science is not going to yield a definitive conclusion at this moment in time. Likewise I have also learned of a concept called faith. Some people think faith is foolish, but they don't understand the power and necessity of hope and belief.

Without me harping on for hours and hours, science can neither disprove or prove the existence of God/Satan, so your question cannot be answered to any degree of certainty here or anywhere else unless you step one way or the other.

Hank_Jones

I don't believe any of that stuff regarding religion, including god/satan.

Due to my catholic upbringing I still find myself using words relating to hell/devil, god/jesus/heaven quite a bit though.

No. :rolleyes:

m@cc@

Mahatma coat wrote: »

I've always found the Church stance on Satan a bit weird Both God and the Divvil wants your soul,
god offers eternal salvation for Acts of Goodness
So why does the Devil offer eternal damnation, surely he'd reward you for the evils ya comit,

To cut a long story short, Lucifer was an archangel along with Michael and Gabriel. God thought angels were the dogs bollocks. Then he created man and man became his favourite. Lucifer became jealous and created a rebellion against God. God banished him, so to get back at God he tempts man to take them away from God. And when he does sucessfully tempt them, he still hates them as they're God's favourite so he punishs them. Phew!


To answer the OP's question, I don't know if he does exist. They say the greatest feat he achieved is making people believe he didn't exist. I try to make sure I never out by not being an evil cnut.:D

humanji

We have six religion based forums on this site, so why is this thread here? If there's a conspiracy abuot the existence of Satan (or any evil material), then PM me and I'll re-open the thread.

Edit: oh and many an eon ago, the ancient Jews believed in many gods. Then one day they decided that they were better off worshippnig only one, as it was more cost effective. But some smart-arse pointed out that if there's only one god then all the bad things that happen must have been caused by him too. Then suddenly there's this character called Satan who happens to appear around this time and now everyone had someone to blame. So basically Satan is the ancient equivillent of the bad guys who conveniently appear at the end of a Raymond Chandler novel.


By request of the OP, I'm reopening this. Can people not argue for or against the existence of God or Satan, and instead discuss their implications in regards to conspiracies?

Darlughda

Some of the more extreme conspiracy theories, like the ones promoted by David Icke, claim that power elites are satanists and devil worshipping and eating babies goes on in secret rituals like Bohemian Grove.

So, if people give credence to those particular theories they would have to believe in the existence of Satan?

kryogen

its a little difficult to not discuss Satans existance in a thread called Does Satan Exist?

also, there will have to be a declaration either way about wether you believe it or not to discuss conspiracy theorys in relations to it

for me, i dont believe in organised religion whatsoever and the conspiracy i see in it is just a control one, religion has been a great method for controlling populations for a long time now

Satan is the fear factor in it

Darlughda

kryogen wrote: »

i dont believe in organised religion whatsoever and the conspiracy i see in it is just a control one, religion has been a great method for controlling populations for a long time now

Satan is the fear factor in it

I agree, and I think the fear of Satan is being used by the likes of David Icke and others who claim that the higher echelons of power elites are satanists.

mysterious

Darlughda wrote: »

I agree, and I think the fear of Satan is being used by the likes of David Icke and others who claim that the higher echelons of power elites are satanists.

Thats incorrect, if you listen to Icke you know that is a blatant lie. David promotes higher vibration. Fear is dense slow vibration. He has only said that 4D beings on the astral plane host and attack our bodies if we are on the fear or vulnerable density.

You are responsible for youself, so stop blaming others about fear. Your fears are your responsibilty and its totally up to you what you do with that.

BTW, fear is a real feeling, just because someone like David icke dicussed it at any given time, does not mean hes trying to promote it.

major bill

kryogen wrote: »

its a little difficult to not discuss Satans existance in a thread called Does Satan Exist?

also, there will have to be a declaration either way about wether you believe it or not to discuss conspiracy theorys in relations to it

for me, i dont believe in organised religion whatsoever and the conspiracy i see in it is just a control one, religion has been a great method for controlling populations for a long time now

Satan is the fear factor in it

its very hard to make a point against that statement and imo is the most accurate description of religion.

humanji

mysterious wrote: »

Thats incorrect, if you listen to Icke you know that is a blatant lie.

Well he certainly hosts a lot of info about it on his website: http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/34/83/

Darlughda

I think you are missing my point, Mysterious.

David Icke's theories hold the premise that Satan exists. Therefore he is using people's fear of satan to support his theories.

mysterious

Darlughda wrote: »

I think you are missing my point, Mysterious.

David Icke's theories hold the premise that Satan exists. Therefore he is using people's fear of satan to support his theories.

No.

David icke is just ben real.

Fear is somethnig you own, If you cant deal with that, what will probably do is repress it. Take ownership for your own fears and stop blaming others.

Fears and abuse exist in the world. David icke speaks truth and shifts the energy to higher conciousness and more mindfulness. It's only when your awre that you can do something with your life and fears.

mysterious

humanji wrote: »

Well he certainly hosts a lot of info about it on his website: http://www.davidicke.com/content/category/6/34/83/

Thats called information. You can choose to be fearful if you like. He explains the nature of fear and how to deal with it too. This is called been in touch with reality. Fear respresents the negative polarity. As light represents the positive polarity.

David icke isn't promoting fear.

This is very incorrect.

Darlughda

mysterious wrote: »

No.

David icke is just ben real.

Fear is somethnig you own, If you cant deal with that, what will probably do is repress it. Take ownership for your own fears and stop blaming others.

Fears and abuse exist in the world. David icke speaks truth and shifts the energy to higher conciousness and more mindfulness. It's only when your awre that you can do something with your life and fears.

What's with the tired new-age style lectures? I certainly am not looking for some clichéd advice from you.

You have completely ignored my question. David Icke's theories are based on the premise that Satan exists. Therefore he is using fear as a method to promote his theories. Don't try to tell me he speaks truth, you don't know, it is only your opinion.

As far as I can see anyone that goes around claiming there are satanists doing appalling things in rituals at the highest levels in society is deliberately using the negative energy of fear to create paranoia.
Thats quite a polarity from 'higher conciousness' and more 'mindfulness'.

So you are incorrect and speaking blatant lies.

PirateShampoo

Whats the difference between Ickes "dont belive the goverment, they eat babies" and the churchs "behave your self or go to hell"?. They are both about controlling people with Fear and bringing you around to there way of thinking and behaving.


Mystreuis you your self seem pretty brain washed by Icke, You believe what he says unquestionably and appear to dismiss any information that contradicts his, you could almost say he has a cult leader status and a big following of people who belive every word he says is true. Just remember if in 2012 he asks you to drink from a bath full of coolaid please think twice.

kryogen

yep, anybody who blindly believes and follows another person unquestionably could certainly be described as.....whats the word i keep hearing? oh a sheep?

Brown Bomber

To be honest Pirate Shampoo based in your absolute refusal to stray an inch from the status-quo despite being provided by evidence to the contrary, such as in the Haiti thread I think you are brainwashd to an extent by the mainstream media.

But then this thread isn't about mysterious or you. The mysterious thread is also called feedback.

PirateShampoo

Wouldnt say brainwashed, more like a lack of not researching the subject. I think im fairly opened minded.

Back on topic, do i think Satan exsists?

No, but like all propergana machines they need a bad guy to direct people at and who to blame when the **** goes down. Its just a form of mind controll.

Darlughda

PirateShampoo wrote: »

do i think Satan exsists?

No, but like all propergana machines they need a bad guy to direct people at and who to blame when the **** goes down. Its just a form of mind controll.

Yes, I really am beginning to think it is a sinister form of mind control that organized religions have used throughout history.

Nowadays, some of the more extreme elements of conspiracy theorists are using this technique (or this bad guy) as a tool to promote their own agendas,which when you dig the surface are scarily white supremacist, anti-semitic and downright evil despite spouting new age 'love' and higher dimension energy.

Don't get me wrong, I do believe conspiracies exist. Corruption, abuse of power, greed, manipulation and governments deceiving people does go on and also has gone on throughout history. I believe strongly that whistle-blowers should be protected, and discussion of conspiracies no matter how daft should be encouraged.

But I am alarmed at the likes of David Icke, Michael Tsarion and other so called truth seekers banging on about satanists and conjuring up images of horror to freak people. To me this is as bad as the church using the god/devil thing to control people, because it is the same thing.

It infuriates me then when they claim to be spiritually superior and pretend they are just giving 'information' and are all about achieving some kind of enlightened state.

In the meantime, genuine conspiracies and whistleblowers get drowned out by this kind of noise.

PirateShampoo

Exactly but Its not just religions, Governments are just has guilty, you only have to look at the last 100 years and uve got Hitler's rise to power can easily be linked to anti-Semitizim, blaming the Jews for messing up Germany, he offered to get rid of the Jews and make Germany great again. Then look at Bush, i don't really need to say much there.

But its easy to spot once you can stand outside the situation and look at it. People don't want to take responsibility for there own lives and want someone to blame if its ****, Thats why the likes of Icke flourish, they give people somebody to blame while offering them salvation if they follow them to there own means.

Truthrevolution

I really hate disinfo agents!

Truthrevolution

Truthrevolution wrote: »

I really hate disinfo agents!

Is that directed at anybody in particular? I certainly hope it isn't.

nyarlothothep

I believe Satan is an alien, based on secret evidence.

Mahatma coat

LOL, well I suppose if we go with the God is an Alien Who seeded life on this planet theory, then it makes 'sense' that his Nemisis would be one too.

RGDATA!

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Is that directed at anybody in particular? I certainly hope it isn't.

i think he meant david icke?

RGDATA!

RGDATA! wrote: »

i think he meant david icke?

Yah, probably, that makes sense.

mysterious

Darlughda wrote: »

What's with the tired new-age style lectures? I certainly am not looking for some clichéd advice from you.

You have completely ignored my question. David Icke's theories are based on the premise that Satan exists. Therefore he is using fear as a method to promote his theories. Don't try to tell me he speaks truth, you don't know, it is only your opinion.

As far as I can see anyone that goes around claiming there are satanists doing appalling things in rituals at the highest levels in society is deliberately using the negative energy of fear to create paranoia.
Thats quite a polarity from 'higher conciousness' and more 'mindfulness'.

So you are incorrect and speaking blatant lies.

How is he using fear. Explain to me how that is true.

You do know fear is an emotion that is part of reality. You do also know that fear can be good and help you focus on to overcome challenges.

So if we pretened fear, which is expresed, in hate,abuse, tortue, killing and murdering doesn't exist should we name these acts as something else and not fear? to the vibration of joy? I'm just wondering what your issue is here.


I believe there is an entity called Lucifer is a 6D density being who who represents the polarity of negative energy. Negative and fear is an energy that exist all around us as does joy and positivity. You have free will to choose which energy you want to attract. This isn't promoting fear, this is called been self honest of who you are and that you are both light and dark and both exist in this universe.

This isn't new age, nor is it nonsense, its fact and also even related to qunatum physics.


David icke does not hold all his theories that satan exist. He believe in his own interpretation of what the negative energy is called or name as.


If we really want to know who creates andmaterilises fear its the rulng bloodlines that control the coporations, media and hollywood.

But I can bet that you watch horror movies I gather?
I will post up videos to prove your statement is wrong.:)
Because David Icke promotes expanded conciousness that repells away from dense fear vibration. He is real about it because he accepts and understands what fear is and why its here. He doesn't promote it.

What your saying is very misleading/

mysterious

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Yah, probably, that makes sense.

So Jammy why are you condoling that its ok to call someone else a dis info agent but you threaten that someone here might pose at someone here;)

I'm really trying to see the balance of judgment here.

mysterious

mysterious wrote: »

This isn't new age, nor is it nonsense, its fact and also even related to qunatum physics.

No, no it's not. It's simply not related to quantum physics.

mysterious wrote: »

So Jammy why are you condoling that its ok to call someone else a dis info agent but you threaten that someone here might pose at someone here;)

I'm really trying to see the balance of judgment here.

Because it's not my job to protect David Icke against personal and semi-abusive statements. It is my job, however, to protect users of this forum from such statements. Simple as that, mysterious.

mysterious

-JammyDodger- wrote: »

Because it's not my job to protect David Icke against personal and semi-abusive statements. It is my job, however, to protect users of this forum from such statements. Simple as that, mysterious.

Protecting who from what?

Let's say for argument sake, A few posters claimed there were dis info agents here.
So if one posters claim turned out to be correct and it was found out whoever it was a dis info agent.

Wouldnt this mean since you didn't investigate it, and looking back in hindsight mean you protected the dis info agent not the users. It's a very common thing that has happened on other forums

I think this be should be really clarified, if you think its acceptable to think that David icke is one(off hand) so freeily and then claim one may not be here despite posters here bringing it to your awareness. Then what are you protecting us from if you don't investigate it?
If people are claiming there are dis info agents here, and if you wanted to protect users here, wouldnt you be investigating it, rather than claiming David icke is one.

Do you see my point. Many people are now asking the question of dis info agents been on here. It's not something thats not unheard of. So it would be a good idea to investigate it, thats sounds more like protecting its users than what you just said. There is never smoke without fire. I think its a really good point to make when the table turn around here.

mysterious

mysterious wrote: »

Protecting who from what?

So if one posters claim was correct and it was found out whoever it was a dis info agent.

Would this mean you protected us? I think this should be really clarified, if you think its acceptable to think that david icke is one and then claim one may not be here. If people are claiming there are dis info agents here, and if you wanted to protect users here, wouldnt you be investigating it, rather than claiming David icke is one

Do you see my point.

You're conflating two seperate issues here, mysterious.

User A claims that David Icke is a dis-info agent. David Icke's not a user of this forum, and I doubt he reads it, so he can't get offended or construe the comment as a personal attack. If you'd like to argue against David Icke being a dis-info agent, you're free to. It's not my job as a moderator to protect him from personal statements (within reason, of course), as he's not a user of this forum.

User A claims that User B is a dis-info agent. User B uses this forum, so they see this comment, they construe this comment as a personal attack, and, in my opinion, rightly so. It's my job, as a moderator, to not allow personal attacks, hence I don't allow such comments.

Anyway, no more discussion of this in this thread. If you'd like to discuss my moderation--and this is an issue about my moderation--then discuss it in Feedback.

alex73

Read the screwtap letters, Satans biggest wish is that we believe he DOES NOT exist. It all goes back to if you believe in God, Good and evil go in the same boat.

mysterious

Well I beleive satan exist, but not the bibical one and hes not confined to good/bad. black and white in our perceptory terms. I also agree with the above statement.

Satan in my view is the all seeing eye the one who controls this reality matrix. So this would mean that all exist here is under his belt. Thus meaning the bible, powers of be, reptillans, bloodlines, illuminati, secret socities, Hollywood, Coporations, brotherhoods all exist under this system. So good and bad exist here.

If the all seeing eye were to be removed the pyramid system would go upside down and real chaos wouold come in and basically destroy our planet. iT would also mean that anyone outside can come in and take over our planet. The rabbit hole goes a lot deeper than what most people in my view percieve to what satan actually is.

If all of us were more self responsible for our lives, and took our own power back, we wouldnt be in the mercy of satan or this matrix at all. So to me, we created this hell ourselves.

It's a really hard truth to deal with, and as I said, its goes much deeper than oh this is just a game of good vs evil. We are in the game, not satan.

Darlughda

Mysterious,

I am not sure if you are deliberately misunderstanding me because I am struggling to find a way to make it clearer how David Icke uses and manipulates people's fears to gain support for his theories.

If you cannot understand how claiming that there are masses of children being kidnapped and tortured and murdered by the power elites is not using fear then I really can't make it any more simple for you.

Nobody is suggesting that hate,abuse, tortue, killing and murdering doesn't exist. But he and the likes of him are claiming that power elites are doing these evil acts on a mass scale. Just tapping into people's deepest fears.

Whether you call him a 6d or 3d entity, Lucifer or Satan, you, yourself believe the devil exists and therefore are maybe blinded to the obvious manipulation and techniques this man and his ilk use.

It is new-age misleading nonsense to suggest we have free will to attract negative or positive energy into our lives. We have free will to an extent, but many events and circumstances are out of our control.
That is like suggesting a person abused attracted the abuse to themselves. bollox and it is not related to quantum physics.

hapenny

yes i DO!!!

Darlughda

hapenny wrote: »

yes i DO!!!

But you haven't got cloven feet!:pac:

Brown Bomber

Darlughda wrote: »

Some of the more extreme conspiracy theories, like the ones promoted by David Icke, claim that power elites are satanists and devil worshipping and eating babies goes on in secret rituals like Bohemian Grove.

So, if people give credence to those particular theories they would have to believe in the existence of Satan?

Your not making any sense to me.

Your saying that for the conspiracy to be credible that satan would have to exist for satanists to exist, which is completely wrong.

Its like saying whatever the Aum cult in Japan believed in was minority thinking therefore they are not actually up to anything. Except they gassed thousands in the Tokyo Underground in the 90's

PirateShampoo

Mysterious,

Ive pretty much confirmed what me and Darlughda have been trying to say. Your like a programed Robot repeating what uve read in Ickes books without question, he has installed the Fear of corruption/greed/lizards eating ur first born etc into you and now you see him has a catholic would see a priest your Saviour.

hapenny

my best trick was making you all believe i dont exsist!!