Clare GAA discussion thread

Fireball07

Henno30 wrote: »

That's not the Clare team as far as I know. That team might be the one that's named in the program, but I expect a different 15 to start.

Where do you expect the changes to be?

That team looks pretty good tbh.

Henno30

Fireball07 wrote: »

Where do you expect the changes to be?

That team looks pretty good tbh.

If there are changes, I'd expect Honan and Cian Dillon to feature at the expense of Collins and Conor Ryan. So goes the word on the street anyway for whatever that's worth.

Fireball07

Henno30 wrote: »

If there are changes, I'd expect Honan and Cian Dillon to feature at the expense of Collins and Conor Ryan. So goes the word on the street anyway for whatever that's worth.

With Morey at midfield, Dillon at corner-back?


What's Honan's form been like lately?? Talented on his day, but has often flattered to deceive imo.

Hidalgo

Fireball07 wrote: »

With Morey at midfield, Dillon at corner-back?


What's Honan's form been like lately?? Talented on his day, but has often flattered to deceive imo.

I'm not sure if More is a definite due to an elbow injury. Dillon would be a big call considering he hasn't much done due to injury. He looked rusty in club championship a fortnight ago.
One lad that has been showing well in challenge matches lately is peter Duggan. Very unlikely he'll be thrown in at the deep end, but he might see some bit of action, offers something we don't have among the forwards, good aerial ability.

Thinkstoomuch

Hidalgo wrote: »

I'm not sure if More is a definite due to an elbow injury. Dillon would be a big call considering he hasn't much done due to injury. He looked rusty in club championship a fortnight ago.
One lad that has been showing well in challenge matches lately is peter Duggan. Very unlikely he'll be thrown in at the deep end, but he might see some bit of action, offers something we don't have among the forwards, good aerial ability.

Ye beat Dublin last week in a challenge match by a few points.Even though challenges matches can be clueless at the best of times,some times when both counties have a real intent in them,they can be useful.
Dublin are a physical team,so that run out should be a help to Clare.
No doubt Daly didn't have Dublin holding back.
The only slight worry that I would have with Clare is the expectation ,how they will cope with the pressure.
However,I feel these players are cut from a different cloth than previous teams.From the Success at minor and U21 level,I feel there is a huge belief and steel in these bunch of player's.Many teams would have folded and been beaten when they missed so many scoring chances against Cork,particulary when Cork took the lead late on in the play off.
The fact ye never wilted but came back stronger ,will be of huge benfit sunday to them.These youngs lads seem to be extremely strong ,character wise.
As far as Im aware , a good portion of the clare players were involved with the Intermediate team,that were beaten by Tippereary in Nenagh in last year Munsters final.That loss ,could easily have affected their mentality and derailed the U21 run,but did not.
They just took it in the chin.The fact they came from behind against KK in the U21 final is more prove,they dont panic.Not many teams in All irelands Finals ,come from behind to beat KK ,at any grade.
I feel Clare will win, as they seem to have too much pace,all over the field,combined with players that are physically able to compete as well for the ball.
As a Cork man,Id prefer to be meeting Waterford in the Semifinal,but it seems unlikely.

Henno30

Fireball07 wrote: »

With Morey at midfield, Dillon at corner-back?


What's Honan's form been like lately?? Talented on his day, but has often flattered to deceive imo.

So goes the speculation anyway. Hidalgo's right about the injury worries though, and Peter Duggan too. It's wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for Davy to throw a young lad in for a big game without warning, he has a lot of faith in youth.

As for Honan, his flaws can be very frustrating but he remains a pretty unique talent. He scores points from ridiculous angles and if he gets a run on goal he's still a terror.

At senior level though, goal chances tend to emerge from design more than accident, and the minor/U-21 thing of a guy getting a ball with his back to goal and running around 4/5 defenders to stick in the net is practically non-existent.

Teams have to find a way to set their goalscorers loose and that requires coordination and movement and slick passing. Goals come from players moving onto the ball at pace heading in the direction of the opposition goal. They don't come from players collecting the ball near the sideline moving away from goal. Unfortunately for Clare, too often that's how the dangermen get on the ball, in distinctly non-dangerous situations.

You have to address it in two ways. The first is organised inter-changing of positions at speed as your backs prepare to deliver the ball forward. This creates space and gives your forwards a jump on their markers. The second is support runs that intersect the ball carriers path where the runner can take an offload at speed.

You have to create these scenarios to score goals and Clare just don't create them often enough. Honan is a good example of why. He doesn't run enough off the ball to end up taking a ball at speed. He doesn't make good enough runs in support of the ball carrier to do it either.

I think a fairly basic improvement in this respect would make a huge difference to Clare, especially if they have two 'natural' goalscorers in Honan and O'Donnell in the FF-line. Whether they do it or not remains to be seen. To date they haven't. The fact that two of their three goals in last year's championship came from placed balls says it all.

Yurt

I'd agree with the changes but i wouldn't be surprised to see Paul Flanagan starting.He was very impressive in the game against Dublin last week and word from inside the camp is he's very close

Hidalgo

Henno30 wrote: »

So goes the speculation anyway. Hidalgo's right about the injury worries though, and Peter Duggan too. It's wouldn't be anything out of the ordinary for Davy to throw a young lad in for a big game without warning, he has a lot of faith in youth.

As for Honan, his flaws can be very frustrating but he remains a pretty unique talent. He scores points from ridiculous angles and if he gets a run on goal he's still a terror.

At senior level though, goal chances tend to emerge from design more than accident, and the minor/U-21 thing of a guy getting a ball with his back to goal and running around 4/5 defenders to stick in the net is practically non-existent.

Teams have to find a way to set their goalscorers loose and that requires coordination and movement and slick passing. Goals come from players moving onto the ball at pace heading in the direction of the opposition goal. They don't come from players collecting the ball near the sideline moving away from goal. Unfortunately for Clare, too often that's how the dangermen get on the ball, in distinctly non-dangerous situations.

You have to address it in two ways. The first is organised inter-changing of positions at speed as your backs prepare to deliver the ball forward. This creates space and gives your forwards a jump on their markers. The second is support runs that intersect the ball carriers path where the runner can take an offload at speed.

You have to create these scenarios to score goals and Clare just don't create them often enough. Honan is a good example of why. He doesn't run enough off the ball to end up taking a ball at speed. He doesn't make good enough runs in support of the ball carrier to do it either.

I think a fairly basic improvement in this respect would make a huge difference to Clare, especially if they have two 'natural' goalscorers in Honan and O'Donnell in the FF-line. Whether they do it or not remains to be seen. To date they haven't. The fact that two of their three goals in last year's championship came from placed balls says it all.

Too much of the ball Honan gets onto is simply a delivery towards the sideline and him running from a more central position to collect.
All grand and you might get pts from it, but he's not going to manufacture a goal from there.

The inter-changing of forwards as you mention is crucial imo. If the timing is right it can create open space in the middle for the man in possession to run into. This way he's moving in a direct line towards a shooting position, not trying to meander around lads.
Taking the ball at speed esp for a half forward is another way of cutting open a defence. If the ball goes into the inside line and someone there collects there, if there's a runner coming towards goal and the pass is well timed all of a sudden you have a man in possession running directly at goal. Makes it very difficult for defenders if they've been following the initial man, all of a sudden they're facing the wrong way to the direction the man in possession is now going

Fireball07

After a good start, Clare have been poor enough. Waterford half-back line and midfield well on top and even defensively, Clare started very well but now Shanahan, Prendergast and Dillon look to have the beating of their men.

Conor McGrath & Shane O'Donnell pretty anonymous, and Conlon, Kelly and Ryan need to involve themselves more. Colm Galvin too...where is he?

marco_polo

Fireball07 wrote: »

After a good start, Clare have been poor enough. Waterford half-back line and midfield well on top and even defensively, Clare started very well but now Shanahan, Prendergast and Dillon look to have the beating of their men.

Conor McGrath & Shane O'Donnell pretty anonymous, and Conlon, Kelly and Ryan need to involve themselves more. Colm Galvin too...where is he?

Wouldn't be too harsh on the two lads in the FF line they've had nothing but a few 50-50 high balls so far, but we desperately need to impose ourselves on the game further out the field.

Fireball07

marco_polo wrote: »

Wouldn't be too harsh on the two lads in the FF line they've had nothing but a few 50-50 high balls so far, but we desperately need to impose ourselves on the game further out the field.

Yeah, not their fault really but the fact remains...if you're two most dangerous inside-forwards are anonymous, you can't really expect to win.

Fireball07

Yer man Duggan looks to be a big, strong player but seemed to lack some technical skills and general awareness when he came on. Made a few bad decisions after winning some ball.


Good win for Clare though, 8-point win in the end is nothing to be sneezed at. Lots to work on though.

keeponhurling

While the second half was encouraging, the reality is Waterford were very poor.

Cork will certainly provide more spirited opposition the next day, and we must improve a lot if we hope to best them

marco_polo

Fireball07 wrote: »

Yer man Duggan looks to be a big, strong player but seemed to lack some technical skills and general awareness when he came on. Made a few bad decisions after winning some ball.


Good win for Clare though, 8-point win in the end is nothing to be sneezed at. Lots to work on though.

He would be regarded as quite a skillful player, very accurate from play and frees. I can see why you would have formed the impresion you did today though, as it was a pretty nervey performance with the ball in hand. That said I think he was exactly what was needed when he came on and his couple of early catches definately lifted the team even if not much came of them.

All in all totally agree with the rest, good result but alot of improvement need to reach the level of the big guns.

Mal-Adjusted

I wasn't sure where to put this and thought about starting a new thread but i figure there's too many ones about abuse scattered down the pages somewhere.

I'm just back from the match now. First of all, I'm delighted with the win and i'm aware it could have easily gone the other way.
Anyway, I had finally convinced my girlfriend to come to Semple with my family and myself, She being a die-hard Connacht Rugby fan and only ever having been to a handful of club games with me. On the terrace in front of us was one of the most disgraceful GAA fans I have ever seen.

This is a man who at first seemed just to be a bit of a character but was soon roaring and screaming abuse towards both the referee and Davy Fitz. This was harmless as neither were close enough to hear, but he soon directed his bitterness towards us, as the only Clare people nearby. At first, he would turn to us and demand if we thought whatever free it was should have been given, then started berating us about this Clare "Superteam" he claims we think we have. If Clare got a free or point, he was f'n and blinding. If Waterford got a free/point, he was f'n and blinding and when Clare got the first goal, he turned towards me, shook his fist in my face and threatened first me, then my father. At the second goal, he roughly kicked the banister, almost hitting my girlfriend. At this point, one of the Guards was watching him closely.

For my part, i did nothing to antagonize him. I cheered when we scored, i gave a gentle clap of respect when Waterford scored.

Now, I never really expected him to do anything, nor felt threatened and at full time he just stormed off. But my girlfriend, as a potential new fan, for her first big hurling match to be so horribly spoiled by this clown is just disappointing. I'm wondering how many other people new to GAA are having their first games ruined by people like this?

I know it's not a Waterford thing and have seen it myself from several counties, including my own. About three Waterford supporters came up to us and apologized for him, including one man who told us that he's from a neighboring parish and is well known for that sort of thing. other people from both sides called him a disgrace to the GAA.

I just wish there was some way we could get people like this out to stop ruining what otherwise was a great day for some new people to get into the GAA.

KevIRL

Congrats on the win today folks, it could have been different if we hadnt hit the string of wides at the start of the second half, but your lads took full advantage, and also were clearly fitter in the last quarter of the match and to the pace also. I think ye can build on the momentum of the second half performance and wont have anything to fear from Cork. Best of luck in the rest of Munster and who knows we may meet again

skaface

Well done to Clare today, took the scores when ye got the chances.

Hidalgo

KevIRL wrote: »

Congrats on the win today folks, it could have been different if we hadnt hit the string of wides at the start of the second half, but your lads took full advantage, and also were clearly fitter in the last quarter of the match and to the pace also. I think ye can build on the momentum of the second half performance and wont have anything to fear from Cork. Best of luck in the rest of Munster and who knows we may meet again

That little period was crucial. As it was Waterford should have been up by more than 4 at the break. Those 3 or 4 wides early in the second half helped keep Clare in the game.

KevIRL

@ Mal-Adjusted. Sorry you and your friends had to put up with that bull$hit from that guy today, it really irkes me to see people carry on like that, and its not something that should be allowed in the GAA. I'd like to see the stewards take more action against this type of excessive behaviour, they shouldnt be there to simply direct people to seats. Glad to hear some others apologised to you but it would have been nice if they had told yer man to STFU as well. H

sasol

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

I wasn't sure where to put this and thought about starting a new thread but i figure there's too many ones about abuse scattered down the pages somewhere.

I'm just back from the match now. First of all, I'm delighted with the win and i'm aware it could have easily gone the other way.
Anyway, I had finally convinced my girlfriend to come to Semple with my family and myself, She being a die-hard Connacht Rugby fan and only ever having been to a handful of club games with me. On the terrace in front of us was one of the most disgraceful GAA fans I have ever seen.

This is a man who at first seemed just to be a bit of a character but was soon roaring and screaming abuse towards both the referee and Davy Fitz. This was harmless as neither were close enough to hear, but he soon directed his bitterness towards us, as the only Clare people nearby. At first, he would turn to us and demand if we thought whatever free it was should have been given, then started berating us about this Clare "Superteam" he claims we think we have. If Clare got a free or point, he was f'n and blinding. If Waterford got a free/point, he was f'n and blinding and when Clare got the first goal, he turned towards me, shook his fist in my face and threatened first me, then my father. At the second goal, he roughly kicked the banister, almost hitting my girlfriend. At this point, one of the Guards was watching him closely.

For my part, i did nothing to antagonize him. I cheered when we scored, i gave a gentle clap of respect when Waterford scored.

Now, I never really expected him to do anything, nor felt threatened and at full time he just stormed off. But my girlfriend, as a potential new fan, for her first big hurling match to be so horribly spoiled by this clown is just disappointing. I'm wondering how many other people new to GAA are having their first games ruined by people like this?

I know it's not a Waterford thing and have seen it myself from several counties, including my own. About three Waterford supporters came up to us and apologized for him, including one man who told us that he's from a neighboring parish and is well known for that sort of thing. other people from both sides called him a disgrace to the GAA.

I just wish there was some way we could get people like this out to stop ruining what otherwise was a great day for some new people to get into the GAA.

I was in Thurles also and one of the Waterford 'fans' was giving the worst abuse I have ever experienced at a GAA match. I am nearly certain that it most have been the same clown. Killanin End - left hand side of the goals towards the back of the terrace ?? I had the misfortune to be standing in front of him - when Waterford got their goal he ran down, roared in my ear and hit me a thump in the back. This guy was in his late 40's or 50's and was old enough to know far better.

It was a downright disgrace - if you carried on like that on a street you would be arrested. There was a steward standing no more than 10 feet away but he did not do a thing.

Good win for Clare despite playing poorly for 45 minutes or so. Lots of scope for improvement, but I think that is a good way to be approaching the next game. Well done to Fitzy and particularly the players.

Hidalgo

KevIRL wrote: »

@ Mal-Adjusted. Sorry you and your friends had to put up with that bull$hit from that guy today, it really irkes me to see people carry on like that, and its not something that should be allowed in the GAA. I'd like to see the stewards take more action against this type of excessive behaviour, they shouldnt be there to simply direct people to seats. Glad to hear some others apologised to you but it would have been nice if they had told yer man to STFU as well. H

There's plenty Gardai around at matches, at least if the stewards notified the Gardai they could then take action against whatever idiot.
The stewards aren't 'trained' for these situations unlike the Gardai.
A pity as one fool can ruin the day for those around

buck65

He was just doing his job, there has to be a gombeen at every GAA match by law.
Was at the All Ireland last year and a Kilkenny person played this same role to perfection.
They are everywhere, let them get on with it.

blue note

I seem to have gotten lucky over the years. In years of going to games I can only remember one guy who really bothered me over the course of a game. It doesn't matter where he was from, he's far from representative of that county.

On the game itself, well done on your win. You were well worth it. From our point of view it was worrying that things seemed to go against us for 10 minutes (opening of the 2nd half) and we weren't able to get back into the game after that. I think a combination of heads dropping, fitness and a lack of options on the bench. Still though, I won't be too pessimistic - if Fives, Walsh and O'Halloran come back from injury we could be contenders for another semi final although we could easily get knocked out at any stage.

On Clare, I'd love to see you go on and win Munster. You have an excellent team, however, Waterford had a couple of bad misses from frees in the first half. We could have been 6 or 7 points up at half time. Then in the first 5 minutes of the second half we had 3 very bad wides. Against Tipp or Kilkenny Clare could easily have found themselves 8 or 10 points down a little into the second half. I'd love to see you win Munster and think you've a good chance, but I don't see much more this year.

Hidalgo

blue note wrote: »

I seem to have gotten lucky over the years. In years of going to games I can only remember one guy who really bothered me over the course of a game. It doesn't matter where he was from, he's far from representative of that county.

On the game itself, well done on your win. You were well worth it. From our point of view it was worrying that things seemed to go against us for 10 minutes (opening of the 2nd half) and we weren't able to get back into the game after that. I think a combination of heads dropping, fitness and a lack of options on the bench. Still though, I won't be too pessimistic - if Fives, Walsh and O'Halloran come back from injury we could be contenders for another semi final although we could easily get knocked out at any stage.

On Clare, I'd love to see you go on and win Munster. You have an excellent team, however, Waterford had a couple of bad misses from frees in the first half. We could have been 6 or 7 points up at half time. Then in the first 5 minutes of the second half we had 3 very bad wides. Against Tipp or Kilkenny Clare could easily have found themselves 8 or 10 points down a little into the second half. I'd love to see you win Munster and think you've a good chance, but I don't see much more this year.

That was the winning and losing of it I thought. We were blessed to be only 4 behind at half time. Not alone did we struggle on the scoreboard after our bright start, we were completely blown out of it around ye're half back line and mid field. Nagle, O Sullivan and Brick in particular were lording it.

One positive of playing Cork the next day is that their Half back line isn't as strong as Waterfords

Clareman

I don't know if we would have gotten back into the game against many other teams after giving that kind of leaway to Waterford.

We HAVE to stop this short ball tactic when we're in a defensive position, the Waterford goal was cause Donnellan had 2 players to aim at and ended up hitting it between the both of them, we were lucky yesterday that we only gave away 1 goal, on another day it could be more. Also, some of the decision making was strange, these short sideline cuts are a joke. Finally, what was the point in going for goal from the 21 yesterday, we were just a point down and completely on top, we got the break for the goal but that was more luck than design.

Hopefully there'll be a big crowd for the Cork match in Limerick now.

Mal-Adjusted

sasol wrote: »

I was in Thurles also and one of the Waterford 'fans' was giving the worst abuse I have ever experienced at a GAA match. I am nearly certain that it most have been the same clown. Killanin End - left hand side of the goals towards the back of the terrace ?? I had the misfortune to be standing in front of him - when Waterford got their goal he ran down, roared in my ear and hit me a thump in the back. This guy was in his late 40's or 50's and was old enough to know far better.

That's the one. I'd say i was about 5-6 foot behind you and i saw him run down and start thumping you and jumping around!

Hidalgo

Clareman wrote: »

I don't know if we would have gotten back into the game against many other teams after giving that kind of leaway to Waterford.

We HAVE to stop this short ball tactic when we're in a defensive position, the Waterford goal was cause Donnellan had 2 players to aim at and ended up hitting it between the both of them, we were lucky yesterday that we only gave away 1 goal, on another day it could be more. Also, some of the decision making was strange, these short sideline cuts are a joke. Finally, what was the point in going for goal from the 21 yesterday, we were just a point down and completely on top, we got the break for the goal but that was more luck than design.

Hopefully there'll be a big crowd for the Cork match in Limerick now.

I counted 4 short sidelines, lost possession on the first 3.
I don't blame Colin Ryan, I assume he's following orders. What really highlighted them was near the end Galvin cut a ball across the field into space for Honan to run onto which resulted in a pt. That option of cutting the ball into space was on but not taken in other instances.

The worst thing about the short sidelines is the opposition expected them as the ball wasn't teed up for a proper cut, it became obvious it was going to be a short one. Made it easier for Waterford to close down the space around Ryan

niallo27

Clareman wrote: »

I don't know if we would have gotten back into the game against many other teams after giving that kind of leaway to Waterford.

We HAVE to stop this short ball tactic when we're in a defensive position, the Waterford goal was cause Donnellan had 2 players to aim at and ended up hitting it between the both of them, we were lucky yesterday that we only gave away 1 goal, on another day it could be more. Also, some of the decision making was strange, these short sideline cuts are a joke. Finally, what was the point in going for goal from the 21 yesterday, we were just a point down and completely on top, we got the break for the goal but that was more luck than design.

Hopefully there'll be a big crowd for the Cork match in Limerick now.

I think the will always be the tactic no matter what point in the game, he has some power behind his frees. Goals win games these days and you wold have to fancy him to bury it at least once out of every 2 chances he gets from the 21.

keeponhurling

The passing game is because we don't really have any big ball-winners in attack?
But we do have guys that if they get good ball are lethal.
(maybe this is also the thinking behind sideline cuts?)

see O'Donnell and Conor McGrath, nicked two goals from breaking ball in around the goal.
But if you rain high ball down onto them it won't really work.

Also our midfielders and half forward line can all take long range points, so if we keep possession and work it up we have a better chance of scoring than driving it long?

premierstone

keeponhurling wrote: »

The passing game is because we don't really have any big ball-winners in attack?
But we do have guys that if they get good ball are lethal.
(maybe this is also the thinking behind sideline cuts?)

see O'Donnell and Conor McGrath, nicked two goals from breaking ball in around the goal.
But if you rain high ball down onto them it won't really work.

Also our midfielders and half forward line can all take long range points, so if we keep possession and work it up we have a better chance of scoring than driving it long?

This theory was floated last year as well as to why Clare were playing a posession based game and tbh it doesnt wash. Honan, Kelly, Conlon, Duggan and Lynch are all well able to win ball in the air, besides just because you hit first time ball into forwards doesn't mean you have to ''rain high ball down on top of them'' you can still play low fast intelligent ball into them or the space their movement can create.

The type of hurling Clare are playing is risky, it takes 5 or 6 passes to get the ball to where a first time hit ball would travel to, that obviously increase's the chaces of it breaking down, see Waterford's goal on Sunday as an example and there were many others especailly around midfield.

I have said it many times and nothing I have seen to date haas changed my mind, Davy was the wrong appointment for Clare, they have the most talented generation of hurlers the county has ever produced and Davy's tactical ineptness will hinder their progress, he has great passion and motivational powers but just doesn't have the nous for top intercounty management.