Legal obligation

tipp86

I was jump started by a guy and during this damage was done to the guys car!

Am i legally obliged to pay for this?

He is after coming up with a price more than his car is worth?

Who connected the leads ? You or him ? Who owned the jump leads ? What damage was done ? What make and model is his and your car ?

seamus

Depends on what damage was done and how it was done.

tipp86

RoverJames wrote: »

Who connected the leads ? You or him ? Who owned the jump leads ? What damage was done ? What make and model is his and your car ?

Cant recall who connected leads ! I owned jump leads ! Mine 02 VW Golf his old renault clio ! electrical damage as far as i know !

seamus

What damage was done? Did the cars collide or is it something electrical?

tipp86

tipp86 wrote: »

Cant recall who connected leads ! I owned jump leads ! Mine 02 VW Golf his old renault clio !

You can't recall who connected the leads. seriously ?
Is the Golf diesel and the Clip petrol ?

Gary ITR

OP the more details you get the better and also any opinions offered in this thread are just that... opinions

tipp86

RoverJames wrote: »

You can't recall who connected the leads. seriously ?
Is the Golf diesel and the Clip petrol ?

Id be 70% that i connected leads ! yes golf diesel and clio petrol.

Wile E. Coyote

Don't know about a legal obligation but surely there's a moral obligation to pay at least some of the cost towards repairing his car. Get him to bring the car to another garage and get a written quote from them with everything that needs to be repaired.

alias no.9

EDIT... must read posts properly in future

Guy:Incognito

alias no.9 wrote: »

Did you offer to help him or did he ask you to help him? Did his car start when you tried? Was that the only time he tried jumpstarting it during the cold snap? When was the damage actually done and by whom? I'd tell him to piss off to be honest.

It was the OP's golf that needed jumpstarting. The other guys Clio was being used to jumpstart.

tipp86

tipp86 wrote: »

I was jump started by a guy and during this damage was done to the guys car!

alias no.9 wrote: »

Did you offer to help him or did he ask you to help him? Did his car start when you tried? Was that the only time he tried jumpstarting it during the cold snap? When was the damage actually done and by whom? I'd tell him to piss off to be honest.

You might read the opening post again, slowly and carefully

mullingar

MMmmm,

I would say, as you did the work, you did the damage.

BTW, what damage was done to the Clio????

tipp86

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

Don't know about a legal obligation but surely there's a moral obligation to pay at least some of the cost towards repairing his car. Get him to bring the car to another garage and get a written quote from them with everything that needs to be repaired.

Ya im with you on moral obligation. Im more worried to find out legal obligation as im just finished college and out of work.

alias no.9

Stekelly wrote: »

It was the OP's golf that needed jumpstarting. The other guys Clio was being used to jumpstart.

Thats what I get for half reading the OP

[mental note]must read posts properly in future[/mental note]

Guy:Incognito

I assume here that the damage was done by connecting the leads the wrong way and your car obviously didnt start?

Outside of that, I'm guessing the battery could have been damaged in the jump.

Could the alternator in a small petrol car be damaged trying to start a larger diesel (more difficult to start)

tipp86

tipp86 wrote: »

Ya im with you on moral obligation. Im more worried to find out legal obligation as im just finished college and out of work.

Unless an auto spark actually confirms the electrical damage was due to the Clio being used to jump start another car I wouldn't be too inlclined to pay. Renaults are electrical disasters. It may well be conincidense. Did anything happen while you were jumpstarting to point to the Clio being damaged, when was the problem highlighted.

For someone looking for advice you are very skant with the details.

alias no.9

Stekelly wrote: »

I assume here that the damage was done by connecting the leads the wrong way and your car obviously didnt start?

Outside of that, I'm guessing the battery could have been damaged in the jump.

Could the alternator in a small petrol car be damaged trying to start a larger diesel (more difficult to start)

I've heard of ECU's being damaged by power surges when connecting / disconnecting jump leads. It's also possible that the positive lead could have short circuited off the body of the car.

tipp86

OK while jump starting the car, his car cut out and would not start.

His exact words were the electricals are fcuked when he rang today.

Anan1

tipp86 wrote: »

OK while jump starting the car, his car cut out and would not start.

His exact words were the electricals are fcuked when he rang today.

So you connected your jump leads to his car, causing his car to cut out and refuse to restart? There's your answer right there.

dirtydiesel

I doubt you have any legal obligation to repair his car.(unless you connected the leads wrong).
Did you ask for the jump start or did he offer?
If you were a garage and damaged his car then you would have to repair it.
If I found myself in this situation, I would offer to help get his car sorted but only after its been proved I caused the problem.
He needs to show you a garage report, estimate for repairs and in as much detail as possible so you can see whats been damaged and work out if it was caused by the jump start.
Now if you connected the leads wrong then the decent thing to do is repair his car.
IMO it boils down to your conscience and how you feel about the fact your car is running and the poor guy who helped you is now walking and facing a garage bill to repair his car.

Darsad

Anan1 wrote: »

So you connected your jump leads to his car, causing his car to cut out and refuse to restart? There's your answer right there.

Perhaps from a moral point of view ,however if he was stupid enough to offer his car up to somebody who was not technically competent to connect a set of jump leads correctly then I would imagine it is his loss! not too sure what legal grounds he would have to pursue the OP .

We don't know if they were connected correctly or not, OP can you recall were they connected correctly. I would reckon they were.

Darsad

If they were connected properly then there is no dispute or debate it would be the same as him asking you to pay for repairs if the car broke down while giving you a lift !

partyguinness

I'd find out exectly what happened.

Did you see the damage occuring? Did it happen on the spot?

or did he come back to you a few days later saying it was damaged?

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

I'd find out exectly what happened.

Did you see the damage occuring? Did it happen on the spot?

or did he come back to you a few days later saying it was damaged?

tipp86 wrote: »

OK while jump starting the car, his car cut out and would not start.

partyguinness

RoverJames wrote: »

Fair enough...:)

TBH...OP I wouldnt do jack **** about this.

If you make a contribution you are admitting liability and there is no telling where the costs will end. That is a legal point of view...we dont do morality.;)

I appreciate your conscience might be eating at you but you must ignore it.

BlackWizard

Exactly ^^

Don't hand over any money if this guy is not a friend or someone you trust.

Maybe if you get his address, a portion of the repair costs could magically appear in the letter box in an envelope with his name on it. Might make you feel less guilty.

itarumaa

This case actually has made me wonder, is there actually any point to offer help.

For instance I was changing a tyre to my 98 Volvo and in the process I succeeded to scrape the car's body a little bit, I don't care but what if the car would 2008 model and you would offer to help someone and ended up with a bill.

If someone unknow to me would ask me help to change a tyre or give electricity for a car I think I would say no, even I would like to help the person, but taking the risk, what is the point?

Tigger

i'm never jumpstarting anyone ever again

shame on ye all

bazzachazza

My wife was a nurse and they were told during training that they should be very conscious of giving people help as they could be LEGALLY in the wrong in the event of something going wrong and could be sued based on the fact they are trained nurses.

Needless to say this has lead to her on occasion not rushing to give assistance in certain circumstances. But when we have come across an emergency she hasn't blinked and gone immediately to give help.

I would be very conscious of giving help if I felt the person could possibly turn to me if damage was done. Always know your skill levels if you don't know how to help back off and say "Sorry I can't help you"

tipp86

Um well the person is just some french guy who lives near my gfs college appartment so there is no connection !

I was unaware any damage could be done by jumpstarting ! I have learnt my lesson !

I assume the gardai wont even listen to him when he goes that route?

Tigger

i reckon you will be sued if you don't pay up


you connected te leads and the evidence shows that you must have done the damage as that is when the damage occured

how much does he want

partyguinness

bazzachazza wrote: »

My wife was a nurse and they were told during training that they should be very conscious of giving people help as they could be LEGALLY in the wrong in the event of something going wrong and could be sued based on the fact they are trained nurses.

Needless to say this has lead to her on occasion not rushing to give assistance in certain circumstances. But when we have come across an emergency she hasn't blinked and gone immediately to give help.

I would be very conscious of giving help if I felt the person could possibly turn to me if damage was done. Always know your skill levels if you don't know how to help back off and say "Sorry I can't help you"

Yes generally that is true....It can be better not to do anyting...once you start helping someone you now have a legal duty of care to that person.

Example, if you see someone drowning in the river and you do nothing. You cant be touched.

If you try to save them and make a balls of it..you are potentially liable for their death or damages.

Generally you cannot be guilty of an omission as opposed to comission.

Tigger

partyguinness wrote: »

Yes generally that is true....It can be better not to do anyting...once you start helping someone you now have a legal duty of care to that person.

Example, if you see someone drowning in the river and you do nothing. You cant be touched.

If you try to save them and make a balls of it..you are potentially liable for their death or damages.

Generally you cannot be guilty of an omission as opposed to comission.

i'd still try an' help, but thats crazy

partyguinness

Tigger wrote: »

i'd still try an' help, but thats crazy

Well thats the theory anyway.

I mean if you try to save someone from drowning and dont succeed. who would try sue you in their right mind?

Their best witness is dead anyway...:D

dirtydiesel

The guards will not entertain a complaint from your french knight in shining armour.
You never set out to damage his car so no criminal offence has been commited.
Chalk it down to experience.

firefly08

I assume the gardai wont even listen to him when he goes that route?

They will ask him if he gave you permission to do the jump start, and perhaps if he has any reason to think you damaged the car on purpose. If you had his permission, and there is no evidence that you wrecked it deliberately, then there is no crime, so the gardai will not be interested.

If he thinks you are legally responsible for this and wants to force you to pay, he would have to take a civil case against you - i.e. sue you.

I'm no lawyer, but I cannot imagine a the court finding you responsible if you had his permission. If you give someone permission to use your property, then you take the risk! Simple.

I take it you never agreed to accept liability for any damage that might result before you connected the cables, did you?

Finally, as regards the question of moral responsibility, I think the guy is being cheeky. If he doesn't know how to safely jump start a car, he should't have done it.

bazzachazza

dirtydiesel wrote: »

The guards will not entertain a complaint from your french knight in shining armour.
You never set out to damage his car so no criminal offence has been commited.
Chalk it down to experience.

How will it work out if he tries to go through the Insurance ?

galwaytt

partyguinness wrote: »

Example, if you see someone drowning in the river and you do nothing. You cant be touched.

If you try to save them and make a balls of it..you are potentially liable for their death or damages.
.

...that's that then - the next time I see a guy drowning, I'm not throwing in the life-ring - I mean, what if I 'overthrew' or 'underthrew', and he drowned getting to it ? Or, if it lands on his head, he gets concussed, and drowns because of that ..? Nope, he can Fukc off - I'm just going to wave back and say 'adios, and thanks for all the fish.....'

Tigger wrote: »

i reckon you will be sued if you don't pay up


you connected te leads and the evidence shows that you must have done the damage as that is when the damage occured

how much does he want

No you won't.
If he doesn't know what he did, you can't prove he did anything wrong. Ditto for the onion-lover.
Who cares how much he wants ? Irrelevant.

tipp86 wrote: »

Um well the person is just some french guy who lives near my gfs college appartment so there is no connection !

I was unaware any damage could be done by jumpstarting ! I have learnt my lesson !

I assume the gardai wont even listen to him when he goes that route?

If his car was that badly damaged, how did he get to where he was going, before calling you the following day ?
Yep, you're right, they won't listen - as they love to say.......'...it's a Civil matter...' End of Story.

Tigger

dirtydiesel wrote: »

The guards will not entertain a complaint from your french knight in shining armour.
You never set out to damage his car so no criminal offence has been commited.
Chalk it down to experience.

coppers have nothing to do with it

solicitors are another (edit) story

no1beemerfan

Tipp86, your details seem sketchy and you only drip feed what has happened when your pushed which makes me think you know exactly what happened.

Did you connect the jump leads to the wrong treminals? Ie positive on one car negative to the other? This will fry the electrics.

Or did you put your foot on your accelerator as you tried to start your car? This will cause a power surge to the other car and in a Renault will blow the ecu.

Anan1

firefly08 wrote: »

Finally, as regards the question of moral responsibility, I think the guy is being cheeky. If he doesn't know how to safely jump start a car, he should't have done it.

The OP did the jump start, all the unfortunate Clio owner did was allow the OP to use their car. Quite frankly, I think the OP's attitude and that of some of the posters here is shameful.

galwaytt

firefly08 wrote: »

... I think the guy is being cheeky. If he doesn't know how to safely jump start a car, he should't have done it.

....well, he IS french, after all..........

....unless the 'video official' is on the ball (sic), I'd just claim Hand Act of God

Would people read the thread :P
The OP did the jump starting to his own car using the other guys car.

Gary ITR

If I'm jumpstarting somebody *I* connect the cables. I'm not going to let stranger attach cables to my car and possibly do damage

Tigger

Anan1 wrote: »

The OP did the jump start, all the unfortunate Clio owner did was allow the OP to use their car. Quite frankly, I think the OP's attitude and that of some of the posters here is shameful.

i agree wholeheartedly

seamus

firefly08 wrote: »

If he thinks you are legally responsible for this and wants to force you to pay, he would have to take a civil case against you - i.e. sue you.

Correct. Since this is not an RTA and there was no malice, the Gardai have no interest.

I'm no lawyer, but I cannot imagine a the court finding you responsible if you had his permission. If you give someone permission to use your property, then you take the risk! Simple.

It's tricky. To avoid confusion, let's call the OP, "A" and the samaritan "B". If B had reason to believe that A was a mechanic or was otherwise suitably qualified/experienced to do what he was doing, then B would have a relatively good case against him.
On the flipside, if A was aware that he had absolutely no idea what he was doing or was aware that what he was doing could potentially damage B's car, then A could be found guilty of negligence.
Between these two extremes is a little more grey. If a case was taken, the most likely outcome would be some form of settlement where A pays a portion of B's costs for being partially negligent.

If you take all of the possibilities as a whole, unless the samaritan pulled up, jumped out and said, "It's OK, I'm a mechanic", then clamped on the cables lickity split and told the OP to fire her up, then the OP has at least partial responsibility to take care of the damage caused.

Finally, as regards the question of moral responsibility, I think the guy is being cheeky. If he doesn't know how to safely jump start a car, he should't have done it.

For the purposes of this thread, we'll assume that the OP was the one who connected the cables, which means that technically the other guy didn't *have* to know how to safely jump start a car.

bazzachazza wrote: »

How will it work out if he tries to go through the Insurance ?

The OP can't go through his insurance company. They won't cover this. The other guy's insurance should cover it if he has fully comp.

tipp86

Tigger wrote: »

i reckon you will be sued if you don't pay up


you connected te leads and the evidence shows that you must have done the damage as that is when the damage occured

how much does he want

€1000 , im pretty sure the clio is not worth that

firefly08 wrote: »

I take it you never agreed to accept liability for any damage that might result before you connected the cables, did you?
.

No

no1beemerfan wrote: »

Tipp86, your details seem sketchy and you only drip feed what has happened when your pushed which makes me think you know exactly what happened.

Did you connect the jump leads to the wrong treminals? Ie positive on one car negative to the other? This will fry the electrics.

Or did you put your foot on your accelerator as you tried to start your car? This will cause a power surge to the other car and in a Renault will blow the ecu.

Ok i went over it with the Gf and she said his car went dead after i connected the leads wrongly.

His car then would not start up.

This happened 3 weeks ago hence why im hazy

alexmcred

How much is he looking for?

mullingar

tipp86 wrote: »

his car went dead after i connected the leads wrongly.

Sums it up.....