Student's Union Gen. Meeting

pervertedcoffee

Is on Wednesday Week 3. http://ulsu.ie/ents/ugm <-- More info.

So everyone, as you've all been super helpful in the past I thought I'd take advantage again. I am writing an article (for 'An Focal') on, what has been loosely termed, student apathy.

Basically no one can figure out exactly why students don't turn up to the UGM and I'm asking you your opinions. Its something I genuinely care about so I would like if you put some thought into it - of course, no pressure. Some general ideas that you might expand on...

• I don't feel my presence at the UGM matters.
• The UGM has notable affect on my day-to-day student life, or my student life in general.
• Nothing important happens at the UGM.
• It's boring.
• I don't feel the SU is worthwhile/is effective/etc.

I know this has been a contentious issue on the board before so y'know, don't lose the head. I'm looking for well expressed, thoughtful opinions, not slagging! If anyone would like me to quote them, please PM me or say so in your comment; otherwise quotes will be anonymous or paraphrased, but I'm not going to twist what anyone says, of course.

Thank you.

entropic

I have always found the general union meetings to be boring and long winded, the officer reports are just a bite size version of their An Focal articles. Then when there is a motion or item that would bring up an interesting debate the chair generally says no more time because they spent so much time on the other stuff. Which generally means that the only people who got to make points or debate a fact are the class reps or C&S members that the chair is familiar with.
The Union appears to be functioning fine without the need to act like a company and have incessantly corporate like meetings to feed their p.admin fantasies.
The meeting should have more of a senate air about them and be focused on debate about motions rather than presentation of accounts and jobs done. The general student body are sitting in these lecture halls listening for the most part of their degree and so maybe an actual forum to discuss items might attract them more than magicians and cookies.

ninty9er

entropic wrote: »

I have always found the general union meetings to be boring and long winded, the officer reports are just a bite size version of their An Focal articles. Then when there is a motion or item that would bring up an interesting debate the chair generally says no more time because they spent so much time on the other stuff. Which generally means that the only people who got to make points or debate a fact are the class reps or C&S members that the chair is familiar with.
The Union appears to be functioning fine without the need to act like a company and have incessantly corporate like meetings to feed their p.admin fantasies.
The meeting should have more of a senate air about them and be focused on debate about motions rather than presentation of accounts and jobs done. The general student body are sitting in these lecture halls listening for the most part of their degree and so maybe an actual forum to discuss items might attract them more than magicians and cookies.

I'd love it if everyone said I didn't have to do an officer report :D

In fairness though, you can feel free to take issue with any of the constitutional requirements and bring them to the meeting, hint hint:cool:

bazkennedy

entropic i get your point but unfortunately the students union is a company and this is a legal requirement- it has to happen

entropic

bazkennedy wrote: »

entropic i get your point but unfortunately the students union is a company and this is a legal requirement- it has to happen

I know they have to have these meetings by law and that certain things must be shown/done but the way the meetings are held are not going to entice the general student body to attend. It is not an easy thing to change the format and what is done to make these interesting but until they do I am not sure that quorum will ever be met.

breedie

When I first went to college (Galway) in the bad old 80s I was very involved with the SU and was surprised with the student apathy when I started in UL in 03. I think the OP has just about covered it with his points but some other factors might be contributing to this. The SU has a lovely modern separate building but that's what it has become - separate. It can even be a bit intimidating to walk through those doors into what appears to be a 'private members club' complete with reception. The canteen is used when an election is in the offing but then the officers seem to disappear into their offices and 'you can get them there if you want them'. I understand that reports have to be issued but could this not be distributed via e-mail before meetings so that a more general discussion could take place? Could the officers not hold 'clinics' in the different buildings around UL even once a month so students are aware they exist and what they do or even look like? Perhaps a campaign on an issue that makes students angry (we were lucky in the 80s - we had fees!) but are they even angry about anything? Do you know? I think if you want the students then you're going to have to go out there and get them. They seem to think they have no need of you.

DJCR

Bordom, longevity and uselessness!!

Whille a neccesary part of the ULSU it really doesn't achieve much. The last one didn't even hit quorum.

If we want students to attend it has to reflect what students care about which at the moment it doesn't. It just doesn't appeal and I fear it is something no amout of freebees will fix.

Find an issue students really care about, put it on the adgena and advertise it like mad!!!!

I mean, the average student will not be bothered what week the elections take place but the would care about say if RAG week was to be cancelled, if the union was discussing the future of the co-op office (ie. what are we going to do about co-op), FYP supervision (get student feedback, ask for ideas, come to a census on what could happen), Charity "RAG" week (how are we going to raise a record amount of money?) Anonymous Marking being another, what the plans are for Charity week and if anyone has ideas (make it a charity for the students by the students - I mean, why rebrand the same thing only once? etc. Not only would these issues raise interest in the AGM it would make the general student population feel more involved.

Zeouterlimits

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

ninty9er

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

Care to elaborate? I'm sure we don't want to be doing the same, but rudeness is a matter of opinion, so we need to know how exactly people were treated.

entropic

Zeouterlimits wrote: »

Considering how rudely some people were treated in an attempt to meet quorum last year I'm not going.
Was ridiculous.

Would that something to do with last years CSO and some annoyed gamers in room3 who wouldn't go and support the union, despite being the group that use the common room and facilities more than most, would it?

ninty9er

Bump!

bazkennedy

time and place? Topics for discussion?

cheers

ninty9er

Venue still to be confirmed by SAA:rolleyes:

Included in the meeting

• Questions for Officers
• Ratification of unopposed officers
• Discussion on Pitches/Sports Facilities
• Constitutional amendments on
  • Dates sabbatical officers take office
  • Election of Faculties Officer
  • Sabbatical salaries
  • Moving the final date for elections to after Charity Week
  • Transferring functions of Community Relations Officer to Campaigns and Services Officer
  • Creation of non-sabbatical Fundraising Officer
  • Assigning responsibilty for non-sabbaticals to a sabbatical officer.
  • Amending functions for constitution
  • Fairtrade campus
• Ratification of Accounts
• Appointing of Auditors
• Any other business (anyone can bring anything up under this)

If anyone has anything they want us to do, this is your chance to have it backed and done.

constantg

DJCR wrote: »

Bordom, longevity and uselessness!!

Whille a neccesary part of the ULSU it really doesn't achieve much. The last one didn't even hit quorum.

Actually Dave, if you'd care to check your memory, I think you'll find that last year's UGM did reach quorom. You should know, you were supposed to be there as Faculties' Officer after all.....

Zeouterlimits

entropic wrote: »

Would that something to do with last years CSO and some annoyed gamers in room3 who wouldn't go and support the union, despite being the group that use the common room and facilities more than most, would it?

Yes. Some, like myself had planned on going, others not, their choice, right or wrong.
That choice was taken away from them, childishly and unfairly.

entropic

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

DJCR

constantg wrote: »

Actually Dave, if you'd care to check your memory, I think you'll find that last year's UGM did reach quorom. You should know, you were supposed to be there as Faculties' Officer after all.....

Actually, I was referring to the AGM last semester.:cool::cool::cool: - which if memory serves (and I'm sure it serves me well thank you very much :D) is accurate!!!

Also, I was at the UGM last year so I suppose (and by suppose I mean I'm 600% cetain) I was well aware that it had hit quorom!! - It was neccesary as there was lots to do!!

Mossin

My only qualm is about the timing of the UGM.

There isnt a hope that me or my classmates can make 2pm on a Wed, and I know other people in the same boat. Why couldnt it take place at like 6pm?

Also, at council last Tuesday, the Sabbats were all encouraging people to go to the Assist Suicide training [which you cant miss any of and its from like 9-5] and yet they want students to attend the UGM also...Sorry guys, cant be in 2 places at once. Doesnt work like that!

constantg

Also, I was at the UGM last year so I suppose (and by suppose I mean I'm 600% cetain) I was well aware that it had hit quorom!! - It was neccesary as there was lots to do!!

Watch the man dig upwards :P

As for the AGM Dave, lets face it, it is always seen as a warning shot that you have to really push for the UGM quorom. The flaming things used to be held in the stables at lunchtime for christ's sake!! And before that in a back room of the stables during a concert :P

I believe we've progressed a little at least

Mossin, the venue/time is for historical reasons. The Union has always claimed wednesday afternoons as their own for Clubs and Socs to go do their thing. Historically the university has usually said S**G OFF!! So the union tends to hold important things on wednesdays as it is traditionally a light day for the majority of students.

If you have problems with the assist training, then I'd say approach a sabbat, they're usually a good lot about it and you might be able to submit apologies for the UGM.

ergonomics

entropic wrote: »

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

I will admit, that was a complete oversight and something I never thought about. The changes will be discussed at the UGM but I will come back in about an hour and detail them all here too! Sorry about that.

Mossin wrote: »

My only qualm is about the timing of the UGM.

There isnt a hope that me or my classmates can make 2pm on a Wed, and I know other people in the same boat. Why couldnt it take place at like 6pm?

Also, at council last Tuesday, the Sabbats were all encouraging people to go to the Assist Suicide training [which you cant miss any of and its from like 9-5] and yet they want students to attend the UGM also...Sorry guys, cant be in 2 places at once. Doesnt work like that!

We spent a lot of time debating the time of the UGM. 10am, 1pm, 6pm, 9pm, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday; at every single time there will be people who can't attend.

The date for ASIST was set months ago, as was the date for the UGM. We know people can't be in both places at once but you're all adults and you can all make decisions yourself. You decide if you want to go to one, the other or neither. The UGM and ASIST training are both very important in their own ways so it's up to you which one to attend, but obviously we'd prefer if you attend one at least!

Mossin

ergonomics wrote: »

We spent a lot of time debating the time of the UGM. 10am, 1pm, 6pm, 9pm, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday; at every single time there will be people who can't attend.

The date for ASIST was set months ago, as was the date for the UGM. We know people can't be in both places at once but you're all adults and you can all make decisions yourself. You decide if you want to go to one, the other or neither. The UGM and ASIST training are both very important in their own ways so it's up to you which one to attend, but obviously we'd prefer if you attend one at least!

I understand that you try to get the time that will suit most people, but I cant fathom how 2pm on any day of the week is the most suitable...surely later in the day would be better, but I'll take your word for it that I'd be wrong.

The fact is, because I have class, I cant attend either the UGM or ASIST training

sceptre

So where's it on then?

DJCR

constantg wrote: »

Watch the man dig upwards :P

As for the AGM Dave, lets face it, it is always seen as a warning shot that you have to really push for the UGM quorom. The flaming things used to be held in the stables at lunchtime for christ's sake!! And before that in a back room of the stables during a concert :P

I believe we've progressed a little at least

All you say is unfortuntely true. But how many warning shots are needed!!! I think the Back room of the stables for a concert was a good idea ..... just not big enough!!!!! (one of the reasons the Union stoped having them in the stables was because they were pissing off people who had no interest that usually went there).

Things have to change, why not make it a huge concert - get some decent bands in in the court yard - opening act - agm - closing act!!!

People buy tickets to see the acts and they are there for the UGM as well - have the UGM on the tickets as well, no tricks + find issues that matter to normal students!! - While selling the tickets hand out the agenda as well, students may get interested!!!

Now, I'm gonna go bury my head in the sand while I wait for the responses to this post :p:p:p

ergonomics

entropic wrote: »

Is there anywhere to get the details of the constitutional changes that are happening? Looked on the website but couldn't find them there.

I have attached a copy of the UGM and will briefly explain the changes.

7.1 - This is just changing the date that the Sabbat Elections must be held by.

7.2 - This is incorporating the work of the Community Relations Officer into that of the Campaigns and Services Officer. In other words, there will no longer be a CRO.

7.3 - This change just clarifies who is responsible for the Equality Officer and who the Equality Office is answerable to.

7.4 - Clarifies how the Faculties Officer is elected.

7.5 - Sabbat wages used to be reviewed at every UGM. This change says that only increases need to go to the UGM. Decreases in wages can be done without UGM approval.

7.6 - Adding in a line that says Polling Stations can be closed early if all Campaign Managers agree to do this.

7.7 - Creating a new non-Sabbat position of Fundraising Officer. It also lists their job description.

7.8 - Class Reps Council can update/remove/create policies but can't change the Schedules in the Constitution which list these policies. We want to change the Preamble to say Class Reps Council can change the Schedules.

7.9 - Clarifies when Sabbatical Officers leave office and when the new ones take up office.

7.10 - This motion was brought by the students and calls on the SU to promote a Fair Trade campus.

DJCR

Thanks for that Ergo.

BUT:-

7.4 doesn't clarify how the Faculties officer is elected ........ it changes it!!!

Ms. Education

DJCR wrote: »

Thanks for that Ergo.

BUT:-

7.4 doesn't clarify how the Faculties officer is elected ........ it changes it!!!

That's incorrect, it does not change how the Faculties Officer is elected because the Faculties Officer is not technically elected. He or she is nominated. The amendment puts in writing what has been practice in the Union for years. I'm surprised you in particular weren't aware of this considering the position you held. The only thing this amendment seeks to do is clarify the matter.

billy the squid

we appear to be lacking a quorum. Doesn'r look like it from where i am

DJCR

Ms. Education wrote: »

That's incorrect, it does not change how the Faculties Officer is elected because the Faculties Officer is not technically elected. He or she is nominated. The amendment puts in writing what has been practice in the Union for years. I'm surprised you in particular weren't aware of this considering the position you held. The only thing this amendment seeks to do is clarify the matter.

Common Practice

1) Faculties Officers are elected

2) They go outside the room and choose among themselves who is to be the faculties officer. In the case of two or more candidates voting usually ensues among the officers.

3a) In the event of a tie the Education Officer has the casting vote.
3b) If the Education Officer doesn't wish to make the casting vote - Can be for a number of reasons:
a) They have no preference
b) They wish to be democratic and leave it to class reps.
c) They have an obvious preference (don't know the others, good friend has been elected to faculty officer) and impartiality would be impossible or questioned when the results came out.

4) Faculties officer announced to class reps or voting (election/nomination) ensues.

Changes to this by the amendment being proposed:

1)The result will not be immediately announced to class reps. (meeting of education working group within 24 hours)

2) The Education working group itself is independant from Class Reps - others can join it.... see minutes from other education working group meetings ie. Irish Officer, Health Science Rep etc
- This leads to the issue of some faculties being more represented than others, group voting could ensue etc

3) In the event the Working group can't decide it would take 2 weeks for class reps to be able to vote on who they want to send to the exec. (A little time consuming - this year if this happened there would be no Faculties Officer till week 6 as the election for Faculties officer occured in week four.

So in short, the proposal could make the election/nomination of faculties officer, slower (having to wait 2 weeks for class reps to vote if neccesary) and less fair (Weighting among the Faculties in the EWG). ie. it changes it!!!

bazkennedy

So how did the meeting go? Was there quorum? If so were any of the motions passed?

pervertedcoffee

Quorum wasn't met...I'm very disappointed...

bazkennedy

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

Quorum wasn't met...I'm very disappointed...

That's a shame

entropic

That is a pity alright, though I do believe a better effort could have been made in bringing the meeting to people's attention. Not everyone follows you on Facebook or Twitter nor do they frequent the SU that often, a big poster campaign at least a week before the meeting would have more people there. An email the week before then again on Monday to remind people.

Students would get over the complaints and you would have gotten yourselves a quorate meeting, take note of the near continual failure to reach quorum anyone thinking of running for Commuinications Officer

ergonomics

entropic wrote: »

That is a pity alright, though I do believe a better effort could have been made in bringing the meeting to people's attention. Not everyone follows you on Facebook or Twitter nor do they frequent the SU that often, a big poster campaign at least a week before the meeting would have more people there. An email the week before then again on Monday to remind people.

As I said at the meeting yesterday, you'll all get an email sometime this week about the UGM probably. I sent it on Tuesday but for some reason it never delivered to ye. This often happens and I'm going to be contacting ITD about it. We put up posters all over college, but they inevitably got covered up or taken down by people. Two recent surveys have found that students nearly unanimously said that posters are not effective as they just walk by them.

There are 1,700 fans on Facebook so, while we know not everyone follows us there, there was more than enough people to get quorum. We also put it on ulsu.ie and the student portal. We texted a lot of people on the morning, emailed people, went out and handed out fliers, continously put it on Facebook and so on.

Posters first went up for the UGM in Week 1 and it was in An Focal from Week 1.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that if there was a medium for letting people know about the UGM it was utilised.

Now to step out of my Union role for a minute: I think one of the main reasons quorum wasn't reached was because the Union didn't use any tricks to get people in. There was no free stuff or gigs on afterwards. They simply gave students the benefit of the doubt and hoped that they would care enough to attend, and apparently they don't. That's just my opinion though.

entropic

ergonomics wrote: »

As I said at the meeting yesterday, you'll all get an email sometime this week about the UGM probably. I sent it on Tuesday but for some reason it never delivered to ye. This often happens and I'm going to be contacting ITD about it. We put up posters all over college, but they inevitably got covered up or taken down by people. Two recent surveys have found that students nearly unanimously said that posters are not effective as they just walk by them.

That is a dissapointment on the side of ITD, but on the posters that is just not true. Many posters are just inefftivly laid out with bland layouts that are seen on 90% of the posters put up on campus. It is possible to make one that will catch the eyes of students. And they are easily the best way to get the info accross. During the time leading up to the general meetings the SU should just take over the notice boards with A3-A2 sized posters as it is more important than what else would be there, a quick word with buildings and I am sure they will leave them alone.

ergonomics wrote: »

There are 1,700 fans on Facebook so, while we know not everyone follows us there, there was more than enough people to get quorum. We also put it on ulsu.ie and the student portal. We texted a lot of people on the morning, emailed people, went out and handed out fliers, continously put it on Facebook and so on.

1,700 fans is alot but how many of them will not attend because they feel you have lost touch with them. The Agenda reads like a Friday lecture at 5pm, some proper items for discussion would be nice instead of one that only a minority(not saying it shouldnt be discussed) care about. How about adding in a discussion about requesting accoutns from the college to see why the prices of everything is going up, or one on the continually talked about a late night alcholic free venue with speakers etc.. I must run to a lecture but I have other opinions on this and shall divulge later.

pervertedcoffee

entropic wrote: »

1,700 fans is alot but how many of them will not attend because they feel you have lost touch with them. The Agenda reads like a Friday lecture at 5pm, some proper items for discussion would be nice instead of one that only a minority(not saying it shouldnt be discussed) care about. How about adding in a discussion about requesting accoutns from the college to see why the prices of everything is going up, or one on the continually talked about a late night alcholic free venue with speakers etc.. I must run to a lecture but I have other opinions on this and shall divulge later.

In fairness - the Officer reports were quick and painless; I think the welfare officer had the right idea by later posting his slides in full on the web, so that's one issue students had resolved.

As for disscusing things students care about - the SU can't read our minds, they've done their best and listened when we've spoken but the point of A.O.B. is for students to bring things that they care about to the UGM and that there is enough students there (i.e. quorum) so that immediate and effective action can be taken. You want it to change, you have to do something about it.

entropic

pervertedcoffee wrote: »

In fairness - the Officer reports were quick and painless; I think the welfare officer had the right idea by later posting his slides in full on the web, so that's one issue students had resolved.

As for disscusing things students care about - the SU can't read our minds, they've done their best and listened when we've spoken but the point of A.O.B. is for students to bring things that they care about to the UGM and that there is enough students there (i.e. quorum) so that immediate and effective action can be taken. You want it to change, you have to do something about it.

I have tried and like so many others failed. The discussion about the presidents house was ridiculous. Unless I missed something the only arguing about anything in An Focal should have been why was the front page just AGM info, the only ad was a half page one that showed the agenda. I may be wrong but the biggest news item for the Union had to have been the meeting not the Presidents house issue that was resolved hours after it came to light that the minister didn't know anything.
Then the talk of gimmicks, I commend the current sabats for showing some integrity and trying to get students in on the merit of the event alone. Nobody wants to go back to trying to get a quorum by going to the stables at lunch time and counting all those eating or socialising as attendees of the meeting. Maybe an act afterwards might be something but it shouldn't overshadow the core event.

pervertedcoffee

entropic wrote: »

吾 have tried and like so 多any others failed. The discussion about the presidents 家ouse was ridiculous. Unless 吾 missed something the 只nly arguing about anything 中n An Focal should have been why was the front 頁age just AGM info, the 只nly ad was a 半alf 頁age 一ne that showed the agenda. 吾 may be wrong but the biggest news 箇tem for the Union had to have been the 会eeting 勿ot the Presidents 家ouse issue that was resolved hours after it came to light that the minister didn't 知now anything.
Then the talk 之f gimmicks, 吾 commend the 流urrent sabats for showing some integrity and trying to get students 中n on the 効erit 之f the event alone. Nobody wants to 碁o 裏ack to trying to get a quorum by 行oing to the stables at lunch 時ime and counting 皆ll those eating or socialising as attendees 之f the 会eeting. Maybe an act afterwards might be something but it shouldn't overshadow the 奥ore event.

I assume you meant that to read why wasn't the front page just AGM info? Which is a fair point actually.

As for the discussion on the president's house I also think that was a ridiculous argument and the chair person did try and curtail it but I suppose if that's what students want to discuss we can't stop them, or else the point of it all would be lost. however I do think that student should have been more considerate of their fellow student's time and not dragged up a topic that had been touched on already.

I agree that I would prefer if their were no gimmiks involved and we could rely on student's interest in their university but as has become so apparent - we simply can't and if anything is ever to change for the better we need to use every trick in the book.

billy the squid

Was also a little miffed that I got a text message about this meeting. I don't recall giving my number to the SU for advertising purposes. I might have given it to them to contact me on a different matter, but telling me about meetings was definately not why I gave them my number.

schuman_stalker

maybe the lack of people at the ugm was down to a lack of campaigns throughout the year.... i wonder who is responsible for that....

SarahBeep!

schuman_stalker wrote: »

maybe the lack of people at the ugm was down to a lack of campaigns throughout the year.... i wonder who is responsible for that....

I think the failures of that office/person deserves it's own thread...:mad: