the empties and oversupply of property

ei.sdraob

i think frontline tonite have a special on "empties"

anyways this was published today, An estimation of oversupply of housing units 2006-09 by county, very interesting



tho they should really mentioned what "city" boundaries they are using, i suspect its alot more than 2% here in Galway City, Doughiska alone has **** load of empty places and alot of the immigrants have left the city in last year

also the total falls well short of the 300,000 empty houses

The_Honeybadger

there was a bloke on the radio this evening from the Irish Homebuilders Association who claims that all houses that are for sale in the country are included in these figures, whether they are occupied or not. I don't think anybody can say with any certainty what the actual number is, but I'm sure its alot. Maybe not quite 300k though

ei.sdraob

mickeyk wrote: »

there was a bloke on the radio this evening from the Irish Homebuilders Association who claims that all houses that are for sale in the country are included in these figures, whether they are occupied or not. I don't think anybody can say with any certainty what the actual number is, but I'm sure its alot. Maybe not quite 300k though

oh its 300,000 arlight

they based their study on ESB connections, GeoDirectory and Census

that excludes unbuilt homes (plenty of them around) and holiday homes

Along with colleagues, he used Ireland’s national address database - the GeoDirectory, the 2006 Census and Department of Environment figures based on ESB connection points.

They concluded that 302,625 houses are not inhabited, including properties for rent or for sale, homes not on the market for various reasons as well as abandoned houses. The figure does not include the estimated 49,000 holiday homes around the State.

changes

I was looking at my local estate agents website recently, the asking price for most houses has dropped very little.

I think people still have not accepted the reality that nobody is willing to pay those asking prices anymore.

fontanalis

Isn't Frontline covering this tonight?

The_Honeybadger

changes wrote: »

I was looking at my local estate agents website recently, the asking price for most houses has dropped very little.

I think people still have not accepted the reality that nobody is willing to pay those asking prices anymore.

I find the same, I have been keeping an eye on prices too and see very little difference between today and 2-3 years ago. I probably wont be buying for a few years but still interested to know what is out there. These are asking prices however, its a buyers market for the forseeable future and once interest rates start to rise in late 2010 I reckon you will definately see a big drop in asking prices, especially in less desireable locations as investors cut their losses. Will have to wait and see I guess but I wonder why people place ads on DAFT and other websites looking for 350k for a 3 bedroom in rural Ireland, that day is gone thank god.

Victor

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i think frontline tonite have a special on "empties"

anyways this was published today, very interesting

http://i46.tinypic.com/b9gkdj.jpg

tho they should really mentioned what "city" boundaries they are using, i suspect its alot more than 2% here in Galway City, Doughiska alone has **** load of empty places and alot of the immigrants have left the city in last year

also the total falls well short of the 300,000 empty houses

Where are those figures from? Is the spreadsheet available? How come it doesn't account for change in household size.

ei.sdraob

Victor wrote: »

Where are those figures from? Is the spreadsheet available? How come it doesn't account for change in household size.

sorry url was broken in first post, fixed now

http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2010/01/24/an-estimation-of-oversupply-of-housing-units-2006-09-by-county/


they have another interesting post @ http://irelandafternama.wordpress.com/2010/01/25/identifying-ireland%E2%80%99s-ghost-estates/

i think its from same people who were on frontline tonite (boldie guy)

hinault

The Professor from DCU was correct : use funds to clear down mortgage holders debt, rather than giving the banks €54b.

ei.sdraob

hinault wrote: »

The Professor from DCU was correct : use funds to clear down mortgage holders debt, rather than giving the banks €54b.

but how will that benefit galway tenter's

hinault

ei.sdraob wrote: »

but how will that benefit galway tenter's

You hit the nail on the head there, my friend.

View

ei.sdraob wrote: »

tho they should really mentioned what "city" boundaries they are using, i suspect its alot more than 2% here in Galway City, Doughiska alone has **** load of empty places

I'd imagine they are using the legally defined city and county boundaries as used by the city and county councils.

silverharp

hinault wrote: »

The Professor from DCU was correct : use funds to clear down mortgage holders debt, rather than giving the banks €54b.

I cant see why, I paid my mortgage why should I support (or people that dont own a house) people that were reckless or nieve. Surely the people that can afford to run a house should own them.

woodseb

hinault wrote: »

The Professor from DCU was correct : use funds to clear down mortgage holders debt, rather than giving the banks €54b.

will the government then own a piece of all our houses or would this amount to a massive windfall to all mortgage holders with nothing in return for the government

Niall Keane

I cant see why, I paid my mortgage why should I support (or people that dont own a house) people that were reckless or nieve. Surely the people that can afford to run a house should own them.

You'd rather pay the same amount for millionaire bankers and developers whose family's assets are protected?

See when people lose their homes and they're fire saled you also lose as the value of your property also goes down.

If there was a mortgage-NAMA you could in effect give a moratorium on payments for say 5 years to an effected family so they could retrain to find jobs in another sector. It’s easier to retrain an individual to be productive and to once again continue paying their mortgage than it is to find a profitable use for boom-time priced land in Cavan??? The risk is also spread out. You may stand to lose 300k on an individual, but an individual scheme / plot could cost ..... well think Ringsend?

Logical really!

But logic could never stand up to Irish begrudgery

woodseb

Niall Keane wrote: »

You'd rather pay the same amount for millionaire bankers and developers whose family's assets are protected?

See when people lose their homes and they're fire saled you also lose as the value of your property also goes down.

If there was a mortgage-NAMA you could in effect give a moratorium on payments for say 5 years to an effected family so they could retrain to find jobs in another sector. It’s easier to retrain an individual to be productive and to once again continue paying their mortgage than it is to find a profitable use for boom-time priced land in Cavan??? The risk is also spread out. You may stand to lose 300k on an individual, but an individual scheme / plot could cost ..... well think Ringsend?

Logical really!

But logic could never stand up to Irish begrudgery

what you are suggesting is nothing more than a multi-billion euro social welfare scheme - it is not something the government could borrow for on the international markets

Niall Keane

NAMA is

a multi-billion euro social welfare scheme

for bankers and developers!

It’s just can’t see a return on it, sure "property" will bounce back but "that" particular substandard property? Remember in the future the market will probably be more regulated to become sustainable, so houses will once again be built to be "machines for living in" and not the smallest box possible to generate a profit.
Maybe the government can blag the money from the “international market" the same fools who "didn't see this coming"? This just reinforces my view that the old guard really does need to be swept away.

Cool Mo D

Niall Keane wrote: »

NAMA is



for bankers and developers!

It’s just can’t see a return on it, sure "property" will bounce back but "that" particular substandard property? Remember in the future the market will probably be more regulated to become sustainable, so houses will once again be built to be "machines for living in" and not the smallest box possible to generate a profit.
Maybe the government can blag the money from the “international market" the same fools who "didn't see this coming"? This just reinforces my view that the old guard really does need to be swept away.

No it isn't! Not for developers or bankers. It's a bailout for the balance sheets of the banks. Bankers will benefit, because they will still have jobs, but Nama money won't be going into their pockets. And the developers don't get any - it doesn't affect their debts at all. They would benefit from higher house prices if Nama keeps prices artificially high, but that won't happen either.

gurramok

Niall Keane wrote: »

You'd rather pay the same amount for millionaire bankers and developers whose family's assets are protected?

See when people lose their homes and they're fire saled you also lose as the value of your property also goes down.

If there was a mortgage-NAMA you could in effect give a moratorium on payments for say 5 years to an effected family so they could retrain to find jobs in another sector. It’s easier to retrain an individual to be productive and to once again continue paying their mortgage than it is to find a profitable use for boom-time priced land in Cavan??? The risk is also spread out. You may stand to lose 300k on an individual, but an individual scheme / plot could cost ..... well think Ringsend?

Logical really!

But logic could never stand up to Irish begrudgery

I want compensation for the overpayment of my car and compensation for its devaluation.

silverharp

Niall Keane wrote: »

You'd rather pay the same amount for millionaire bankers and developers whose family's assets are protected?

See when people lose their homes and they're fire saled you also lose as the value of your property also goes down.

If there was a mortgage-NAMA you could in effect give a moratorium on payments for say 5 years to an effected family so they could retrain to find jobs in another sector. It’s easier to retrain an individual to be productive and to once again continue paying their mortgage than it is to find a profitable use for boom-time priced land in Cavan??? The risk is also spread out. You may stand to lose 300k on an individual, but an individual scheme / plot could cost ..... well think Ringsend?

Logical really!

But logic could never stand up to Irish begrudgery

look property will find its own value with or without gov. intervention. Nobody should be bailed out. By propping up prices (in the short term) you are asking for example potential home owners to support people who have property already and in so doing pricing them out of the market. If it fails the "justice" smell test it will most likey fail the economic test as well.

Sleepy

Would like to see details of some of these ghost estates. Would be great if Daft had a special section for them so first time buyers could see where there's properties they could bid half asking price at etc.

fontanalis

Silverharp2 wrote: »

I cant see why, I paid my mortgage why should I support (or people that dont own a house) people that were reckless or nieve. Surely the people that can afford to run a house should own them.

Don't be selfish, if their house values sky rocketed they would shared the increase with the rest of the country.

fontanalis

Niall Keane wrote: »

You'd rather pay the same amount for millionaire bankers and developers whose family's assets are protected?

See when people lose their homes and they're fire saled you also lose as the value of your property also goes down.

If there was a mortgage-NAMA you could in effect give a moratorium on payments for say 5 years to an effected family so they could retrain to find jobs in another sector. It’s easier to retrain an individual to be productive and to once again continue paying their mortgage than it is to find a profitable use for boom-time priced land in Cavan??? The risk is also spread out. You may stand to lose 300k on an individual, but an individual scheme / plot could cost ..... well think Ringsend?

Logical really!

But logic could never stand up to Irish begrudgery

IT'S NOT F***ING BEGRUDGERY TO EXPECT PEOPLE TO TAKE RSPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN DECISION

g5fd6ow0hseima

Who was the wanker in the audience who suggested that the empty houses in the more affluent areas which fetched high prices in the boom time should not be used for social houses.... instead the social housing should be grouped together. Not just grouped together, but in terraced housing or something....

He made my blood boil. Basically, because some people paid half a million for houses in certain areas, they should be left empty rather than less well off people picking them up for a fraction of the price. Typical nouveau Irish ****

ardmacha

Empty houses in more affluent areas should be sold at reasonable price, as there are plenty of people who would like to live there. No need to leave them empty or sell them to the government. Some profligate people need to sell their big house in an affluent area and move to a smaller (but adequate) house elsewhere to reduce their debts. Then more frugal individuals can go and buy their their big house.

Niall Keane

IT'S NOT F***ING BEGRUDGERY TO EXPECT PEOPLE TO TAKE RSPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN DECISION

Like the shareholders, developers and banks will?

1. The banks "need" recapitalisation?
2. To do this WE, THE LITTLE PEOPLE take on their BAD LOANS or ACTUALISED BUSINESS RISK!!!
3. THE FACT THAT THIS WILL LEAD TO A COLLAPSE IN THE ECONOMY AS PEOPLE HAVE LESS TO SPEND, AN INCREASE IN UNEMPLOYMENT, AND REPOSESSIONS , SHOULDN'T PLACE A MORAL OBLIGATION ON THE GOVERNMENT TO PROTECT SAID ORDINARY TAX PAYERS WHO WILL FEEL THE COLD WINDS OF FINANCIAL RUIN DESIGNED BY OTHERS AND WHO'S TAXES ARE FINANCING THE "RECOVERY".
NO WE SHOULD "INVEST" IN LAND IN LONGFORD TO PROP UP AN ALREADY FAILED ENTERPRISE?

BTW just to project a little into the future, when my generation have finished paying for the older generations mess (careful, smart, nothing to do with luck, mortgage paid generation who benefited from the boom), on top of our own mortgage, what do you think will be left for your retirement? Because we have no money left the economy is shrinking, less tax inevitably means less services, hope you enjoy Charles Dickens, because he'll give you a good impression of the healthcare you can expect in a few years when it matters to you. Remember this as you clutch you chest waiting in line in a corridor to be seen by a terminally delayed doctor. And remember that as you slip away those responsible probably still have that chopper and helipad to get them to that private clinic in Switzerland any time they need lipo.

woodseb

isn't there a separate forum for ranting and raving? :rolleyes:

fontanalis

I don't support NAMA either but let's face up to reality, this mess is what happens when you let gombeenism run the country, this is what brown envelopes and tents at the Galway races gets a country. But people still think that rising proprty prices is automatically a good thing.
The sad fact is if the banks failed then it would be a bigger mess, remove anyone from the banks (or from any regulatory baody that should have an IQ in the double digits) who was supposed to be in charge, tough titties to shareholders etc, its a form of gambling.

fontanalis

woodseb wrote: »

isn't there a separate forum for ranting and raving? :rolleyes:

But not for outbursts.

Victor

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0127/1224263210651.html

621 'ghost estates' built across State
CONOR POPE

LEITRIM IS the county most affected by so-called “ghost housing estates”, and it could be at least seven years before house prices in the region stabilise, according to new data released by academics.

The Maynooth-based National Institute of Regional and Spatial Analysis (Nirsa) yesterday issued a county-by-county breakdown of housing estates where more than half of the properties are empty or remain under development.

It gave details behind its recent claim that more than 300,000 new homes are empty, a figure more than double the official estimate.

Yesterday’s data showed there were some 621 “ghost estates”.

Some 86 of these estates have more than 50 properties, 253 are made up of 21-50 properties, and a further 282 comprise 10-20 properties. The Nirsa study showed that Co Cork had 90 such estates – substantially more than any other county – but that when the figures were broken down on a per capita basis, the most negatively affected counties were Leitrim, Longford, Sligo and Roscommon. Leitrim was found to have 21 ghost housing estates, Roscommon 35, and Sligo 24.

The counties in the midlands along the N4 corridor were by some margin those most negatively affected by the bursting of the property bubble, according to the director of Nirsa, Prof Rob Kitchin. This was because development there had started later than elsewhere in the Republic, he said.

“If you think about it they were the last counties to be developed. The property boom had already stopped when developments in these counties were at their peak and these counties were developing estates far beyond what population growth required,” he said.

He said property demand and supply had been “completely uncoupled” in the midlands and northwest between 2006 and 2009. “Based on population growth, Leitrim would have needed around 588 new houses over that period, yet there were actually 2,945 houses built. That is an oversupply of 401 per cent.”

He said the oversupply problem was likely to be exacerbated by the recession, which would inevitably see people gravitate towards urban areas in search of employment. He estimated it would take seven to 10 years for property prices in the worst-hit areas to return to anything close to their current levels.

He said that, nationally, the oversupply problem could be addressed within three years of the country coming out of recession.

“I fear that no one is going to take responsibility for many of these properties so they will just sit there. Who is going to be the first person to move into one of these estates and take a risk on services being developed?” he asked. “A lot of these houses will undoubtedly have to be knocked and their continued existence will keep the housing market in some areas depressed for a very long time to come.”

Although the figures published are preliminary, Prof Kitchin said they portrayed “an accurate picture of the data”.

Last week Nirsa reported that 300,000 properties were lying empty. This figure was more than double the estimate from Minister for Housing Michael Finneran, who had told the Cabinet there were 100,000-140,000 houses lying empty. The construction industry claimed the true figure was 40,000.

Prof Kitchin decided to calculate the extent of empty housing because official figures do not exist.

His department used Ireland’s national address database – the GeoDirectory, the 2006 Census and Department of Environment figures based on ESB connection points.

ei.sdraob

its interesting to note that they count an estate as more than 10 homes, there are smaller estates than this in just about every country and small village now

and of course one of houses that are incomplete

thebman

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its interesting to note that they count an estate as more than 10 homes, there are smaller estates than this in just about every country and small village now

and of course one of houses that are incomplete

and houses empty in otherwise occupied housing estates.

Ghost estates is one thing but I lived in an estate for a few months before things went south and many of the houses were empty in it. Some even still had stickers on the windows and then the house next door to us was empty but owned with grass up to the length of the wall.

Ridiculous and ugly. Planners should be held accountable for this crap and the estates built in areas that will flood. Although some politician probably got final say and went against planner advice in some cases I imagine and no political donations to FF had anything to do with the zoning that occurred :-/

Sleepy

Naya Orange Dimple wrote: »

Who was the wanker in the audience who suggested that the empty houses in the more affluent areas which fetched high prices in the boom time should not be used for social houses.... instead the social housing should be grouped together. Not just grouped together, but in terraced housing or something....

He made my blood boil. Basically, because some people paid half a million for houses in certain areas, they should be left empty rather than less well off people picking them up for a fraction of the price. Typical nouveau Irish ****

There's a strand of logic in his thinking with some validity... Those houses could probably still be sold in the current market whereas ones in less desirable areas might not be able to be.

Ergo, if you utilise the less-desirable areas for social housing, you get a better usage of resources.

I'm pretty firmly of the belief that if you're relying on the state to provide you with housing you shouldn't be in a position to argue about the location of that housing.

Victor

Sleepy wrote: »

Ergo, if you utilise the less-desirable areas for social housing, you get a better usage of resources.

- and ghettoisation. Its perfectly possible to put lower specification*, smaller houses, on less land into better neighbourhoods, that cost a lot less than their neighbours.


* e.g. cheaper bathroom and kitchen fittings

Sleepy

So effectively, less desirable housing in desirable areas. Is this the maximum utilisation of inputs though? Could more be achieved through investing the difference in the cost of the sites into the less desirable areas?

Was this what was done? From what I could see the 'affordable' housing and social housing units within Irish developments while perhaps using lower specc'd fittings were of no significant difference in size to the units they were sold alongside.

ei.sdraob

im surprised that everyone here and on frontline is missing the easy solution to the problem > stop NAMA propping up the prices and let these houses be sold on an open market, and sold they will be

all of these houses can and will be sold, yes it wont make a profit (thats the gamble that the banks and builders took on and must pay for) and there will be fire-sales

and yes that would affect the banks, but its their mess let them sort it out,
this whole "must bailout X" line of thinking is actually a very perverted Keynesian approach

we dont need NAMA, we need liquidater to squeeze as much money out of these assets, and then use that money to keep at least one bank going, if the rest go to the wall then thats a lesson for the banking sector to learn! if the ECB doesnt want the banks to fail then let them bail them out on their own money and not involve the taxpayer

Sleepy

And since we nationalised Anglo, we already have a bank to lend with

Japer

Despite there being 300,000 empty houses in this little country, some Borough Councils in some counties - where there are already lots of empty houses and ghost estates - have plans ( and already have the land ) to actually build more houses, as local authority housing etc. Crazy, we do not need more houses built in the country on a big scale for a very long time.

silverharp

Japer wrote: »

Despite there being 300,000 empty houses in this little country, some Borough Councils in some counties - where there are already lots of empty houses and ghost estates - have plans ( and already have the land ) to actually build more houses, as local authority housing etc. Crazy, we do not need more houses built in the country on a big scale for a very long time.

seems crazy its true, they should be be buying the empty properties if they have a budget for it

Niall Keane

I have said it before that although the Economists are correct in that the property “sector” will bounce back eventually, these properties won’t. Although I do work in the sector, I don’t see why that would be necessary to understand that there is a difference between the collective noun “property” referring to an economic activity, and the legal term property as it can refer to specific buildings.
NAMA is akin to buying 1989 Ladas that have no power steering, need leaded petrol and have no air bags and trying to sell them today for a profit. Most the NAMA stock would not pass even today’s planning (size of units) nor Building (energy efficiency) regulations. This is a shocking fact that the pro-NAMA brigade are not even aware of. And we're talking just 2-3 years since they were granted. By the time property - the sector does bounce back people will not be looking to invest in tiny profit generating tiger-boxes, the "boxes" being built then will be to a higher standard to suit the needs of families renting and buying to live in them, and the regs will have changed, have already changed, to encourage sustainable development. Some people still believe in the myth of a "starter" home, this concept only existed in the Tiger years. The idea that we would trade in houses like cars, making buildings part of our disposable culture is a fallacy. In the future it will be one home that will be designed by real architects (as the professional title is finally protected by law - now that the boom is over and the cowboys have made their fortune) New homes will be designed to consider the needs of people through their life cycle, adapting to their age and needs, with inevitable “upgrades” to Disability Access, Energy Efficiency, Structural and other regulations the NAMA sink estates will progressively become that aforementioned Lada.
So what can we do to use these buildings, well perhaps we could knock the party walls between apartments, and turn a 70 sqm 3 bed into a 140sqm 3 bed, that’s reasonable space for a family, not quite the 200 sqm of American and German family apartments but getting there. Do the housing estates similarly get a makeover, knocking a connecting corridor through the terraces and semi-ds, that also could enclose the shared space providing a suitable environment, (should a small health centre be attached) for a retirement village??? Will this return a profit? No, but I think any logical person who doesn’t believe in every bit of propaganda that has been fed to the Irish tax payers, would realise that there is no danger what so ever of NAMA making a profit.

Cork Boy

Victor wrote: »

- and ghettoisation. Its perfectly possible to put lower specification*, smaller houses, on less land into better neighbourhoods, that cost a lot less than their neighbours.


* e.g. cheaper bathroom and kitchen fittings

If you are relying on the state to provide you with housing, you shouldn't get to choose what neighbourhood you get - beggars can't be choosers.

It's up to the residents then to stop the "ghettoisation".

AlekSmart

im surprised that everyone here and on frontline is missing the easy solution to the problem > stop NAMA propping up the prices and let these houses be sold on an open market, and sold they will be

we dont need NAMA, we need liquidater to squeeze as much money out of these assets, and then use that money to keep at least one bank going, if the rest go to the wall then thats a lesson for the banking sector to learn! if the ECB doesnt want the banks to fail then let them bail them out on their own money and not involve the taxpayer

Ei.sdraob has it in one here.

It`s HUGELY significant that the Dutch owned ACC Bank almost managed to give the thick,sneaky Irish development elite a lesson in reality.
However one just has to witness the truly amazing lengths to which The Carroll Companies,backed by a selection of top grade legal representation,went to in order to frustrate the principles outlined by ei.sdraob.

NAMA is one top grade Crock`o ****e and few are in doubt about that...however it will probably fall to foreigners to eventually smack our collective chops and reveal the awful reality which our Governing classes continue to conceal from us.

Victor

ei.sdraob wrote: »

we dont need NAMA

We do need banks.

Japer wrote: »

Despite there being 300,000 empty houses in this little country, some Borough Councils in some counties - where there are already lots of empty houses and ghost estates - have plans ( and already have the land ) to actually build more houses, as local authority housing etc. Crazy, we do not need more houses built in the country on a big scale for a very long time.

Location, location, location.

Victor

Cork Boy wrote: »

It's up to the residents then to stop the "ghettoisation".

While they have a part to play, many of the people in such situations aren't equiped to do this.

Nidot

Victor wrote: »

While they have a part to play, many of the people in such situations aren't equiped to do this.

So what you're saying is that not only should the government provide people with accomodation, but it should also set up the social fabric of society in order that the areas housing these people don't become ghetto's.

Have people heard of the term 'personal responsibility' before.

fontanalis

Victor wrote: »

We do need banks.

Location, location, location.

Decent ones would be good.

ei.sdraob

Victor wrote: »

We do need banks.

of course we need banks

but as many (independent) economists in this country have noted and written to the government (only to be ignored)

NAMA is the arseways way of saving the banking system

Soil Mechanic

*COUGH COUGH*

Slightly offtopic but still an interesting interlude to the whole debate.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-2550156453790090544&ei=Hk1jS87xKcnQ-Qby-PHECA&q=moneyasdebt&hl=en#

http://www.moneyasdebt.net/

As an aside, could it be argued that the issue is NOT in fact developers, or even greedy Lenders
(whom it has to recognised, only lent to greedy investors....)
but rather the "Hollow Man" of Irish government over the past few decades, specifically the near total lack of visionary long-term Strategic Planning that could have been legislated for via multiple myriad methods e.g. 1-for-2 affordable Social Housing in housing developments; compulsory services & amenities provision on a sliding scale of size, etc.

To blame the banks alone is NOT accurate, goverance is the ultimate arbiter: the irresponsible indulgent parent, with the bank(er)s the errant and spoiled children.

A grossley unregulated Market system allowed the Boom to inflate -the only way out of the bust is an effective Planned system....is NAMA the optimal solution..... well:(.........

SM

ballinatray

changes wrote: »

I was looking at my local estate agents website recently, the asking price for most houses has dropped very little.

I think people still have not accepted the reality that nobody is willing to pay those asking prices anymore.

. ..

Yes indeed the reality of that vast over supply has not yet hit home...Auctioneers are equally reluctant to tell their clients the truth !!!!

The market was criminally manipulated by Fianna \fail incentives and builders releasing property to market in a controlled manner creating the illusion of a shortage of supply...Horse.....t...

God help[ the young ....I am too long in the tooth to be affected!!! Take over the GPO again!!!only this time get rid of the carpet baggers>>>>

SkepticOne

The most likely solution of this is that the empties will be bought by local authorities from the builders at a cost (+reasonable profit) price and then demolished.

SLUSK

SkepticOne wrote: »

The most likely solution of this is that the empties will be bought by local authorities from the builders at a cost (+reasonable profit) price and then demolished.

Buying houses to destroy them, that seems to make a lot of sense. Ireland is sometimes like the upside-down crazy world of Alice in Wonderland.