how far back can you take your family tree?

owenc

How far back can you take your family tree as i have been trying this for months now and have got no answer... so far i have goto my great great great grandfather who was born in 1810 in coleraine... then it all stops i don't get any further and i have checked all the church graves in the area they only go back to 1800 and no further did people not get buried in graves back in the 16-1700s? Is there actually any way of getting your family back to the 1600s or 1700s at least?

Sundew

I've managed to get back to the birth of my Great Great Grandfather in 1816 using paper records. I did my family tree about 15 years ago but I've been meaning to tackle some aspects of it again as some more records have become available since including Irish Army records which I need to have a look at!
My family name however (rather distinctive for where I come form) goes back to at least the 1500's in my parish but I'm not sure how to go about making the exact connection. Don't fancy hanging around the National Library too long for that one

pinkypinky

According to a pro genealogist I know, the best most people can do is the beginning of the 19th century. That is, if your family is predominantly Irish and Catholic. Wealthier people always leave more records and CoI has better survival too. I'm back to the middle of the 18th on one Welsh branch but all the rest is 1790 - 1820.

Simarillion

The furthest I've gone back is to 1600 in one branch, and back to 1820 with the rest of them.

It's not easy at all. Luckily the oldest branch is fairly well documented, but for those that aren't it's almost impossible.

owenc

pinkypinky wrote: »

According to a pro genealogist I know, the best most people can do is the beginning of the 19th century. That is, if your family is predominantly Irish and Catholic. Wealthier people always leave more records and CoI has better survival too. I'm back to the middle of the 18th on one Welsh branch but all the rest is 1790 - 1820.

Well the family tree was pretty easy to do as the grave was next door to my great grandfathers grave and was probably one of the oldest in that chuch... It is known to me that this man came from magilligan and his relatives are recorded in the magilligan Presbyterian chuch which opened in 1814 so there must have been another Presbyterian church before this which would tell me about his parents and get me back to sometime in the 1700s or were there not many Presbyterian churches in them times if so were did people get buried?? Have you any info on how far or were abouts Presbyterian dinominations could get back or is it just CoI that has the early records??? Thanks

Linus67

Unfortunately the earliest I can go back to is the late 18th century.

pinkypinky

Owenc,

I suggest referring to John Grenham's book "Tracing your Irish ancestors". He has a chapter on different church records. I don't know much about Presbyterian records but I do know they are mostly still in local custody.

Pinky

bfocusd

im not quite sure the years,

but im 22 and i have a photo of my great-great grandad, when he was in his late teens and his dad and grandad is in the photo,
they lived up north and were forced to leave when one of the sons fell in love with a protostant woman and they ended up living in clare, then my great-granmother (who passed away when i was turning 16) moved to dublin to marry my great grandad.

i was amazed when i found this out, its not a long long time ago,
but its great to know how you became who you are.
if it wasnt for there lives and decisions mine wouldnt exist

my mam even has my great-great-great grandads walking stick!

fraxineto

Hi, just reading these threads and wondering when is the penny going to drop, what is the next logical step when your paper trial ends, and in this country it ends very rapidly, i sympathize with the frustration above "did we not bury people pre 1800", and we have all heard "a sure all them records were burnt", and "you have to know the exact year they died to get the cert" and "you cant look it up yourself" . Despite all this help i managed to trace my family tree back to early 1800s, and there it stopped for many years, until i took the next logical step.
I joined a DNA Surname Project (FTDNA) and took a "Test", not expensive for what it is, and wondered why i didnt do it sooner. Got my results, can compare them to the entire database from FTDNA and other testing companies worldwide, no charge (after test cost) now and in future.
The paper trial is important but when its done its done, and if you want more you have no choice but to go down the DNA route.

gonnaplayrugby

i have ancestors buried in that french hugenot cemetry near stephens green

pinkypinky

fraxineto wrote: »

Hi, just reading these threads and wondering when is the penny going to drop, what is the next logical step when your paper trial ends, and in this country it ends very rapidly, i sympathize with the frustration above "did we not bury people pre 1800", and we have all heard "a sure all them records were burnt", and "you have to know the exact year they died to get the cert" and "you cant look it up yourself" . Despite all this help i managed to trace my family tree back to early 1800s, and there it stopped for many years, until i took the next logical step.
I joined a DNA Surname Project (FTDNA) and took a "Test", not expensive for what it is, and wondered why i didnt do it sooner. Got my results, can compare them to the entire database from FTDNA and other testing companies worldwide, no charge (after test cost) now and in future.
The paper trial is important but when its done its done, and if you want more you have no choice but to go down the DNA route.

For me, the DNA route is of no interest. I don't want to know where my ancestors were 10000 years ago. I'm interested in names and stories and locations I can see now and know that my family was at it in the past. And yes, the paper trail does end, sooner than most would like, and people did bury before the 18th century and all our records were not destroyed.

And Gonnaplayrugby:
That is so cool!!

Linus67

fraxineto wrote: »

Hi, just reading these threads and wondering when is the penny going to drop, what is the next logical step when your paper trial ends, and in this country it ends very rapidly, i sympathize with the frustration above "did we not bury people pre 1800", and we have all heard "a sure all them records were burnt", and "you have to know the exact year they died to get the cert" and "you cant look it up yourself" . Despite all this help i managed to trace my family tree back to early 1800s, and there it stopped for many years, until i took the next logical step.
I joined a DNA Surname Project (FTDNA) and took a "Test", not expensive for what it is, and wondered why i didnt do it sooner. Got my results, can compare them to the entire database from FTDNA and other testing companies worldwide, no charge (after test cost) now and in future.
The paper trial is important but when its done its done, and if you want more you have no choice but to go down the DNA route.

I can't wait for my results from FTDNA's new service called "Family Finder". They test your autosomal dna.

fraxineto

Sorry Pinkypinky, I think you misunderstood my post, as I was just repeating the feeble excuses i met over the years trying to access records, of course i didn't heed them. I am fully aware of what records are available, but i say that those records should be freely available to the public in libaries and on-line as a right.
Regarding the DNA route, and the 10000 years ago, sure its tells you where your ancestor was then, but what about all the years in-between right up to the present day, we all have genetic matches walking this earth right now, with their own paper trails, and if they have access to earlier records than we have and compare them, cant you see the potential result of this.
I'm not to worried whether my ancestor was down the pub with Fred Flintstone or not , but i would like to know where he was in 1799-1750-1700 etc.
Dna testing is not a threat, and i would hate to think that i or anybody else would put somebody off taking one, and denying them that vital piece of information that could further their research.
gonnaplayrugby, you need a refresher course in Latin, you are so far off the mark.

owenc

fraxineto wrote: »

Hi, just reading these threads and wondering when is the penny going to drop, what is the next logical step when your paper trial ends, and in this country it ends very rapidly, i sympathize with the frustration above "did we not bury people pre 1800", and we have all heard "a sure all them records were burnt", and "you have to know the exact year they died to get the cert" and "you cant look it up yourself" . Despite all this help i managed to trace my family tree back to early 1800s, and there it stopped for many years, until i took the next logical step.
I joined a DNA Surname Project (FTDNA) and took a "Test", not expensive for what it is, and wondered why i didnt do it sooner. Got my results, can compare them to the entire database from FTDNA and other testing companies worldwide, no charge (after test cost) now and in future.
The paper trial is important but when its done its done, and if you want more you have no choice but to go down the DNA route.

No I wouldn't really want that as it would send you to France or Germany or somewhere like that as there are no native people to the British isles I just want to see which country before Europe

Jellybaby1

I'm thinking of doing a Genealogy course next year. UCD run one, but its mighty expensive. I've also been told FAS has one but haven't found it yet. Has anyone got any recommendations?

fontanalis

owenc wrote: »

No I wouldn't really want that as it would send you to France or Germany or somewhere like that as there are no native people to the British isles I just want to see which country before Europe

History of what's more than likely your haplogroup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1b

fraxineto

A dna test does not mean you have to look to France or Germany for a genetic match, they could be there, but they might just as likely be in Dublin, Cork, or Galway. There is a 90% chance that you belong to the Haplogroup Rib, and if you check out the "Genographic project" you can trace your ancestors route out of africa to europe some 60000 years ago.

fontanalis

removed

owenc

ya but is there a dna test to take you back to 600 years or does it just go the whole way back??? i dont really care if it comes from france because the majority of surnames come from there that is why i want to get back 500 to see were in the uk it comes from because there really is no records from 500 years ago... or 400 years ago i got one in 1700 for my family but still...

Linus67

owenc wrote: »

ya but is there a dna test to take you back to 600 years or does it just go the whole way back??? i dont really care if it comes from france because the majority of surnames come from there that is why i want to get back 500 to see were in the uk it comes from because there really is no records from 500 years ago... or 400 years ago i got one in 1700 for my family but still...

Yes, you should take as autosomal DNA test.

https://www.23andme.com/store/

jos28

I got as far as my Great Grandparents marriage in 1837 and got stuck. I know it's difficult to get to anything pre-famine but I would love to find out more about my crowd.

CDfm

on my dads side we can go back yonks to 1690 or a bit before i think

the reason being there were a lot of priests in each generation and i think that made a difference to the record searches

owenc

CDfm wrote: »

on my dads side we can go back yonks to 1690 or a bit before i think

the reason being there were a lot of priests in each generation and i think that made a difference to the record searches

Yes andi hear it's harder for Catholics as they only kept records from 1800 and Presbyterians started at 1600 something.. But with the different surname spellings and stuff I'm struggling I got back to 1660 and found this boy in the muster roll but wasn't in the census before that so he mustve came over from Scotland in between .. But his surname is Spelt totally different to mines but my dad says that that us a varient of my surname and there is no other person in any releatiob to my surname there and they were there in 1740 so that must be them but I can't get anywere as there is no dob or wife so I can't get anywere which is such a shame after getting so close

CDfm

there are variations but my uncle did a bit of digging in the late 1960's and he has been dead for years

they had been farmers in wexford and their landlords were related in some way and a combination of estate records etc filled the gaps

owenc

CDfm wrote: »

there are variations but my uncle did a bit of digging in the late 1960's and he has been dead for years

they had been farmers in wexford and their landlords were related in some way and a combination of estate records etc filled the gaps

Yes, i see.. its very hard at this point to know what to do, as you don't know which person in scotland it could be due to the surnames being different and all that, pity they didn't have records to back then!!

dubhthach

I only know back to my great-grandfather on my father side. However I have a better picture of my mothers family. I know going by the 1911 census that my great-great-grandfather who was born in the 1820's could speak both Irish and English whereas his son (my great grandfather) could only speak english.

I've recently gotten myself tested with FTDNA, I'm currently waiting on my Deep-clade test to finish. So far I'm confirm as R1b1b2a1b* which along with it's subclades makes up about half of the European men who are R1b*

If I show up as positive for L21 (R1b1b2a1b5*) then it shows a possible Le Tene celtic background.

Couple of interesting subclades under L21, M222 is associated with the Ui Neill and their Connachta relatives the Ui Briuin and Ui Fiachra, plus there's another subclade that appears to be specific to the Dal gCais (L226)

owenc

dubhthach wrote: »

I only know back to my great-grandfather on my father side. However I have a better picture of my mothers family. I know going by the 1911 census that my great-great-grandfather who was born in the 1820's could speak both Irish and English whereas his son (my great grandfather) could only speak english.

I've recently gotten myself tested with FTDNA, I'm currently waiting on my Deep-clade test to finish. So far I'm confirm as R1b1b2a1b* which along with it's subclades makes up about half of the European men who are R1b*

If I show up as positive for L21 (R1b1b2a1b5*) then it shows a possible Le Tene celtic background.

Couple of interesting subclades under L21, M222 is associated with the Ui Neill and their Connachta relatives the Ui Briuin and Ui Fiachra, plus there's another subclade that appears to be specific to the Dal gCais (L226)

Is that ui ulliem thing an ancient scottish galeic clan, i can't find anything about it and it says my mothers family are involved with it.

WindSock

Circa 1840 so far, even that is questionable. No paper record yet that I have found. Still trying to work on one side. GGrandmother is a bit of a mystery. Found her on the 1901 census the other day and her first name was completely different to what we had thought!

owenc

WindSock wrote: »

Circa 1840 so far, even that is questionable. No paper record yet that I have found. Still trying to work on one side. GGrandmother is a bit of a mystery. Found her on the 1901 census the other day and her first name was completely different to what we had thought!

Yes if you try the church of ireland grave yards you may find something as presbyterians and catholics weren't aloud grave yards back then so they may be buried in there? I have got back to 1810 but have found someone in the protestant 1740 census but i am trying to figure if that is the father of my great great great grandfather, but with all the diffrent surname forms its quite hard.

iMax

Currently stuck at about 1840

LornieLou

I've just managed to get back to 1800 and hopefully tomorrow can go a little further. Also just found out by talking to a complete stranger on the street that one of my distant relatives is still alive. Can anybody help me find out about the Clarke Family who built Newtown Clarke House in Palmerstown...it was built pre 1829 and is now known as Riversdale. Just wondering if they are any relation to the Clarke's from Clondalkin.

pinkypinky

The house is not mentioned under either name in Burke's Guide to Country Houses, which has never failed me before. I googled it and only found a couple of mentions. There's no matching Clarkes on the 1876 landowners survey but there are some Clarkes in Palmerston on Griffiths (have a look on www.askaboutireland.com). If you use the Ordnance survey to plot the exact location of the house, you could see if it matches up with these Clarkes on Griffiths.

shanew

This is the detail included on the house in the Palmerstown entry in Samuel Lewis, Topographical Directory of Ireland 1837 :

[mention of Palmerstown House built by the late Rt. Hon. John Hely Hutchinson]
... several pleasing villas, including Riversdale, the seat of Gen. Sir Guy Campbell, Bart, ..
[details of other houses - Brook Lawn & Bellgrove]


Shane

pinkypinky

Checked Burkes for Sir Guy Campbell, Bt, created 1815, so it's probably the first Sir Guy.
A major general with the West India regiment, married 1st Frances Elizabeth Burgoyne (one daughter) and 2nd Pamela FitzGerald, eldest daughter of Lord Edward FitzGerald. Family continues with Irish and military connections but mostly in England now.

Also have you seen this:
http://www.myhome.ie/commercial/brochure/riversdale-house-palmerstown-dublin-20/168622

shanew

The house is shown on the OSI maps - see http://maps.osi.ie/publicviewer/#V1,708035,735522,6 (click on the options to the right to view the older maps)

It's captioned as Riversdale on the 25" map (c1890s) and Newtown Clarke House on the two earlier 6" map (c1820s - 1840s)



Shane

LornieLou

Thanks Pinky and Shanew. Interesting information but alas has proved fruitless !

It's back to the paper trail for me. At least I know the Clarke's ran a pub in Clondalkin in the 1800's....now to find where they were before that...another day in the national library. Thanks again for the help!:)

owenc

Does anybody know if you can get records for the clothworkers company within the london companies who traded in northern ireland back in the 17th-19th centuries?? As i have a great great great grandfather who worked in it and would love to find out more info about it and maybe see if his father or any other relatives worked in it.

pinkypinky

Owenc,

It would be better if you started a new thread for that query.
I've never heard of the company you mention. If they still exist, try contacting them to see if they maintain an archive, like Guinness' do. If not, try the UK National Archives for records.

Pinky

owenc

pinkypinky wrote: »

Owenc,

It would be better if you started a new thread for that query.
I've never heard of the company you mention. If they still exist, try contacting them to see if they maintain an archive, like Guinness' do. If not, try the UK National Archives for records.

Pinky

You've never heard of the london companies!:eek: Thats the whole reason why my county was changed from county coleraine to county londonderry and they actually built most of the towns in this county if it weren't for them some of them wouldn't be here! Anyway new thread then.

Mint Sauce

on my dads side, my great great great grandad born in scotland around early 1800's, all infomation curtosy of my gran, spent most of a day with her just writing down names and aproxamate dates, about 140/150 people on it in total (names for about 120/130 of them), she is an amazing lady and remembers nearly everthing, a perfect start i would say if i ever get around to reseraching further.

InTheTrees

My mum comes from an old english family and her dad is in www.peerage.com which is an amazing database and which traces the male line of her name back to 1455.

The miracle of the internet means you can trace female lines now with ease so i've done some random tracing backwards (within peerage.com) and it just keeps going back and back.

tomasocarthaigh

According to family lore handed down by my father, three brothers from Kildare settled in north Longford in the 1820's or so. Two of them died childless, and the third inherited their homesteads and united it into one plot, which was the family lands until the 1970's when my father - six generations after - moved out.

There is a dispute over the spelling of the name as well, as in Irish its Ó Cárthaigh, we spell it Carty - no "h" - but many others spell it with the "h".

On searching the 1911 cencus, the families are Carthy, but the returning officers often missplet the names... there is Carty / Carthy. Mac Carty and MacCarthy in the area.

It will take a trawl of BDM if theres any left to iron it out.

A job for tomorrow.
snipped.

owenc

I went to the library today and found george cummin who married elizabeth in april 1707, how would i go about connecting him too me or finding something else out about him?

Asphyxia

I have been researching a family tree with my father on and off for the past two years and finally we had a break through lastnight. I managed to find my great grand mother and her grandchildren who immagrated to America back in 1890-1920's, I found out that after six months she came back but the rest of the family who went stayed their. I find all this very interesting
The farthest we have gotten back was the 1700!!

owenc

Pocketfizz wrote: »

I have been researching a family tree with my father on and off for the past two years and finally we had a break through lastnight. I managed to find my great grand mother and her grandchildren who immagrated to America back in 1890-1920's, I found out that after six months she came back but the rest of the family who went stayed their. I find all this very interesting
The farthest we have gotten back was the 1700!!

Aye its great though its annoying when you hit a brick wall which takes months no end to figure, just like i've hit one now, aw god.:mad: So unfair.

RIRI

I've managed to get back as far as 1794, I've only been researching for around a week so I'm very pleased with myself. It's the UK branch of the family I've been studying which of course has made it nice & easy.

Ponster

RIRI wrote: »

I've managed to get back as far as 1794, I've only been researching for around a week so I'm very pleased with myself. It's the UK branch of the family I've been studying which of course has made it nice & easy.

Yep, if you have GB ancestors it can be sometimes a lot easier to trace people via the Internet while in Ireland once you get to 1840 you may have to begin driving to churches and manually going through parish records.

brianthebard

tomasocarthaigh wrote: »

According to family lore handed down by my father.....

Tomas, History and Heritage/Genealogy is not the place for your videos, so please do not post any more. If you wish to post in the fora by all means do so once its relevant. Mod.

RIRI

Ponster wrote: »

Yep, if you have GB ancestors it can be sometimes a lot easier to trace people via the Internet while in Ireland once you get to 1840 you may have to begin driving to churches and manually going through parish records.

I'd be delighted if I could get past 1901 with the Irish side to be honest. I am hoping to trace them once I have gained a bit of experience with the UK side.
It really is facinating stuff, I am thoroughly enjoying myself.

InTheTrees

Pocketfizz wrote: »

I found out that after six months she came back but the rest of the family who went stayed their. I find all this very interesting

Whereabouts in the US? I think ancestry.com is the most popular US Site, you might find some of them are looking too?

Drummer Mummer

I have just started my family tree and wonder how I might go about accessing Birth, Baptism & Marriage Certs from the churches. Do I have to make an appointment to see the records and who do I contact to do so. Thanks for any information in advance.