Should we pay for water ?

Morlar

Thought I would post this poll based on this article (my vote is NO we should not have to pay for it) ;

Water charges could raise €1bn for Govt

Link

Household water charges are expected to raise €1bn for the Government, Environment Minister John Gormley revealed today.

The Green leader said plans to introduce bills and install meters in 1.1 million homes will be brought to Government in a few weeks.

It is hoped the roll-out will begin next year to meet the full cost of providing treated clean drinking water to every home.

The minister said: “I would hope that it raises that amount of money.”

Some €300m has already been earmarked to fix the country’s creaking water supplies over the next three years.

Mr Gormley said the record repair bill will see burst pipes and old mains systems replaced as some regions are losing about half of water supplies through leaks.

“This is completely unacceptable and must be urgently addressed,” he said.

Mr Gormley also hit out at the decision to scrap water charges in 1997.

“I believe that we have missed a huge opportunity over the years because the decision of previous governments to get rid of water charge’s was nonsensical and pretty spineless,” he said.

The minister said water metering was essential to create a fair system which would bring in significant savings.

Figures from the Department of the Environment quoted a report for the UK government which found average savings of 16% per household after meters were installation.

Parts of Dublin and Clare are still without normal supplies after the big freeze damaged ageing water pipes.

“We are playing a huge game of catch-up with our water infrastructure, following decades of under-investment,” Mr Gormley said.

It is understood the €300m repair fund is already in the Department of Environment budget but has been reallocated from other areas to ease pressure on the water supply network.

“The difficulties experienced by thousands of householders across the country show clearly that there are still huge issues with our water infrastructure and consumption of water that need to be addressed,” the minister said.

“Our approach to drinking water in Ireland has been unsustainable, and we must change that approach, from the investment and management of our network to how we as households value the resource that comes out of our tap.”

Max Power1

Morlar wrote: »

Thought I would post this poll based on this article (my vote is NO we should not have to pay for it) ;

Water charges could raise €1bn for Govt

Link

Household water charges are expected to raise €1bn for the Government, Environment Minister John Gormley revealed today.

The Green leader said plans to introduce bills and install meters in 1.1 million homes will be brought to Government in a few weeks.

It is hoped the roll-out will begin next year to meet the full cost of providing treated clean drinking water to every home.

The minister said: “I would hope that it raises that amount of money.”

Some €300m has already been earmarked to fix the country’s creaking water supplies over the next three years.

Mr Gormley said the record repair bill will see burst pipes and old mains systems replaced as some regions are losing about half of water supplies through leaks.

“This is completely unacceptable and must be urgently addressed,” he said.

Mr Gormley also hit out at the decision to scrap water charges in 1997.

“I believe that we have missed a huge opportunity over the years because the decision of previous governments to get rid of water charge’s was nonsensical and pretty spineless,” he said.

The minister said water metering was essential to create a fair system which would bring in significant savings.

Figures from the Department of the Environment quoted a report for the UK government which found average savings of 16% per household after meters were installation.

Parts of Dublin and Clare are still without normal supplies after the big freeze damaged ageing water pipes.

“We are playing a huge game of catch-up with our water infrastructure, following decades of under-investment,” Mr Gormley said.

It is understood the €300m repair fund is already in the Department of Environment budget but has been reallocated from other areas to ease pressure on the water supply network.

“The difficulties experienced by thousands of householders across the country show clearly that there are still huge issues with our water infrastructure and consumption of water that need to be addressed,” the minister said.

“Our approach to drinking water in Ireland has been unsustainable, and we must change that approach, from the investment and management of our network to how we as households value the resource that comes out of our tap.”

tl:dr

however going by the thread title my vote is NO.

genericguy

i think we should, but i'd rather spend the money on getting john gormley beaten to death with a baby seal.

Mister Tickle

would you pay for a milkshake from Mcdonalds if 45% of the milk shake was leaking out from the bottom of the cup?? No....but the council want you should pay for water even after admitting that 45% of the water leaks out through their underground pipework. laughable really. paying for water in this country.

dsmythy

Mister Tickle wrote: »

would you pay for a milkshake from Mcdonalds if 45% of the milk shake was leaking out from the bottom of the cup?? No....but the council want you should pay for water even after admitting that 45% of the water leaks out through their underground pipework. laughable really. paying for water in this country.

The money raised would help fix this problem.

mikom

Environment Minister John Gormley revealed today

Stopped reading here.
Please let me know if the revelation was that he is in fact Mr. burns stunt double.

sorrywhat

Morlar wrote: »

It is hoped the roll-out will begin next year to meet the full cost of providing treated clean drinking water to every home..”

I voted No based on my water supply at the moment.

But if the above quoted sentence happened I would agree to pay a small fee. But only if it was clean drinkable water.

The water I receive at the moment does not taste nice so therefore I would not pay for it. Its laughable.

witnessmenow

I think so


Think about all the water that gets purified to get flushed down the toilet! All new houses should be givin a grant to install a rain water system for things that do not need purified water (toilet, wahing machine, showers (maybe?) )

Mister Tickle wrote: »

would you pay for a milkshake from Mcdonalds if 45% of the milk shake was leaking out from the bottom of the cup?? No....but the council want you should pay for water even after admitting that 45% of the water leaks out through their underground pipework. laughable really. paying for water in this country.

If the meter was at your house (ala the ESB meter) it would not matter how much gets leaked out on the way.

BluesBerry

No we shouldnt the government screw us enough through stelth taxes :mad:give the public a break and leave our free water alone ffs

egan2020

Have any figures/info been released as to the amount of water that can be used before you have to pay charges?

Captain_Generic

Mister Tickle wrote: »

would you pay for a milkshake from Mcdonalds if 45% of the milk shake was leaking out from the bottom of the cup??

Really depends on the flavor, and 45% of something can't currently be leaking out of it otherwise it would be more than 45%, unless more milkshake is being poured in as it leaks............mmm milkshake

ScumLord

If I thought it would do any good I might think it was a good idea but our government have shown they've no concept of quality or value for money and that money will end up wasting away quicker than Irish tap water on it's way to the customer.

I'm not inclined to help the government in any shaper or form until they show their up to the job which would take a massive overhaul of the way our country is run.

jay-me

It will be the air next!!!!

Morlar

BluesBerry wrote: »

No we shouldnt the government screw us enough through stelth taxes :mad:give the public a break and leave our free water alone ffs

I agree.

Granted social welfare recipients will probably not pay for meters but I would like them to clarify where the money for the costs of meter installation and upkeep is going to come from. Also how much this is expected to be per flat/home/caravan/etc. There are a lot of properties, period houses and so on where installing water meters onsite is not going to be straightforward.

I believe landlords are probably going to be screwed to the wall to have to pay to install all those water meters in all those flats. As it would be unfair to burden a renting tenant to pay for a property's water metering system that is to the landlords ultimate benefit.

I also think it's extremely fortuitous that this is coming in the midst of council water cuts and council water rationing.

Also I would like to see estimates of the average yearly cost & a guarantee that every penny paid goes only to water supply costs. Another thing is what kind of assurances are there that the prices will not simply creep up and up and up and up and up year on year like every f***ing thing else in this country.

jay-me

Also what will happen if you don't pay your water bill?? Cut off and left to die? I think they should buy back the toll bridge and make some money from that!

Not to mention when you go out for a meal and you don't want to pay 4.50 for a bottle of water and they are charging 2.50 for tap water:eek:

ctrl-alt-delete

Well we already pay for water with our taxes, as that is the money used to pay for the service.

So i'd be against direct water charges, as it will raise €1 billion as it says on the tin, it will not save any money.

CianRyan

It comes from the fucking sky, fúck the fúck off!!

jhegarty

They could raise €20 billion by taxing air.

All our problems are solved.

Vegeta

We already pay for water through taxes

Lower my tax rate and I'll pay by usage no problemo.

I don't like paying for things twice.

toiletduck

dsmythy wrote: »

The money raised would help fix this problem.

Sure it will...

bonerm

Gormley should get cancer quick before he risks becoming even more unpopular.

redout

Plenty of water if the Corpo get the bloody delivery system fixed.

Read in the Herald that only 40% of water actually reaches us with the other 60% being lost seemingly!

gent9662

If the money collected went directly to improving the quality of the drinking water I would say yes. However, do we not pay for it already in through our tax?

Overheal

You know, theres places in Africa where they'd gladly pay for water.

enda1

How about the option that we could pay for the supply but not for the installation?

Morlar

Overheal wrote: »

You know, theres places in Africa where they'd gladly pay for water.

Setting up all those direct debits would be a major pain though

Probably better to keep this thread to Ireland instead of africa.

Mister Tickle

dsmythy wrote: »

The money raised would help fix this problem.

Fix the problem and then i'll consider paying water rates. this problem exists because the council havn't bothered to maintain the water supply system throughout the country. not because money was never allocated to water maintenance...councils have had plenty of money to maintain the system. they didn't do the work...and what now you want to hand them an open cheque book to solve the problem?

yeah....

Speculator

Drinkable water will become one of the most expensive commodities in the future.

Most countries already charge for their water, so yes, I think we should.

Idbatterim

Will this money be ringfenced for water and waster water infrastrucuture or just another tax?! Every other European Country pays for their water... Billions of euro here are squandered every year, on PS pay, welfare etc! I think we should trim all the fat before adding more taxes!

Morlar

After I started this thread I came across this one which I wish I had read before creating the poll :

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64153122&postcount=1

Overheal

Morlar wrote: »

Setting up all those direct debits would be a major pain though

Probably better to keep this thread to Ireland instead of africa.

The World doesnt revolve around Dublin, Morlar

kumate_champ07

Overheal wrote: »

You know, theres places in Africa where they'd gladly pay for water.

great idea, we could make a few bob selling some water to Africa!

Morlar

Overheal wrote: »

The World doesnt revolve around Dublin, Morlar

Nor does it revolve around africa.

I mean seriously, saying africans would gladly pay for our water supply. . . of all the heartless posts I have come across. For shame!

Overheal

Morlar wrote: »

Nor does it revolve around africa.

I mean seriously, saying africans would gladly pay for our water supply. . . of all the heartless posts I have come across. For shame!

Well I could have said they would Kill for some fresh water but I thought that would be too implicit :rolleyes:

Morlar

Overheal wrote: »

Well I could have said they would Kill for some fresh water but I thought that would be too implicit :rolleyes

Well if it comes down to it I am all for killing gormley to maintain our own current 'toll-free water supply' status within europe.

Overheal

You guys pick hilarious things to get into a fuss about. If they get too close to metering water use there will be pitchforks and torches on O'Connel street. Bailout scandals etc. bla bla are just too Meh to get out of bed for I guess.

Morlar

Overheal wrote: »

You guys pick hilarious things to get into a fuss about.

Well when you get your €420* bill for a water meter next year, and then the €190* bill for supply the first year, and the year 2 supply one of €230* and so on let me know how that works out for you.




*conservative figures out of thin air

AckwelFoley

I love the Irish mentality

We want the government to supply everything Free of charge.

The normal response to this is "I PAY TAX RABBLE RABBLE"

My answer, you may, but not the amount you would need to pay to be in receipt of the services you would like.

If you want it, pay for it

ART6

Should we pay for potable water supplies? Yes
Should we pay for sewage services? Yes
Should we pay for bin collections? Yes
Should we pay for electricity? Yes
Should we pay for gas for cooking and heating? Yes
Should we pay for heating oil? Yes

The issue to me is that the first three are provided by the state, for which we already pay taxes, while the latter three are provided by companies -- we can use them or decide not to. Oh I accept that I could drill a well and hire Mr. Binman to collect my waste, but I would still be paying the same tax. I could buy a septic tank but I would still be paying the government. No-one would give me a reduction for my tank of s**t. I would accept a water meter if I thought for a moment that Mr. Cowen and his highwaymen would reduce my taxes accordingly:(

Thomas828

In Britain when the water/utilities were privatised we no longer paid for water through the rates. We pay directly to the water companies. Thames Water are now using part of that money to replace London's water mains, most of which are more than a century old and leaking in numerous places. What public sector company could get it together to do this? Also with meters people are more careful about how they use water.

CrazyRabbit

Add 1 billion to the government coffers.....hmm. Somebody forgot to mention that this 1 billion will have to come out of the economy.
That's 1 billion less being spent on goods & services in the country. That reduces VAT income quite a bit, slows down recovery and will likely result in more job losses. The job losses mean less income tax and more social welfare payments.

So, they will then have to raise income tax or something else to make up for lost income tax/vat tax and increased social welfare payments.

And so the cycle continues.

And I believe I read earlier that they cannot even account for a very large percentage of the water supply. Nobody knows where it is going, but it is suspected that it is leaking out into the ground. Talk about money down the drain!!!!

So no....no water charges. I'm not paying for the mistakes of greedy contractors who laid dodgy pipes to begin with.

R0ot

Back to using the local well and tanks I go.

oh sh!t I'm not in Donegal any more /o\

Helix

they should have a well in every town for people who dont want to pay for their piped water supply, that gives them the option. but in terms of the stuff being pumped through hugely expensive piping systems, then yeah i dont see why there shouldnt be a fee

old boy

most people that live in the country have to pay for water, so a little equality will do no harm, if the majority have it for free then why not the minority

Idbatterim

[/QUOTE]I love the Irish mentality

We want the government to supply everything Free of charge.

The normal response to this is "I PAY TAX RABBLE RABBLE"

My answer, you may, but not the amount you would need to pay to be in receipt of the services you would like.

If you want it, pay for it

I do have an issue paying more when there is so much wastage and over paid Ps workers! come back to me when thats been addressed!

changes

It'll start at 300 or 400 per year and give it 5 years we will be paying 1000 or more. These are all things the government used to get paid for but bought elections by getting rid of them, just like property tax.

As for having to pay for the meter yourself..... no thanks i don't want one.

Thats like being crucified and having to pay for the cross.

Agricola

Im on a group water scheme down t'country here and its a laugh a minute. Its run by all the local farmers. One of them comes around once, sometimes twice a year looking for 4 or 500 quid. He has some agm figures scribbled down on an A4, hasnt much clue about what hes talking about, only that he always, always needs more money to go towards the new resevoir (which theyve been talking about for the last 5 years) and for the meters which will "soon" be installed. I could have sunk 2 private wells for the price of what Ive shelled out to date and the end doesnt appear to be in sight yet!

galwayrush

I'd pay to get rid of some.....:rolleyes:

lisaface

Oh dear, I thought the title said 'Should we PRAY for water', I was like whattt hahaha oh so funneh!

Yes, yes we should, NOTHING IS FREE IN LIFE - never has been and never will be like. *shrugs* my 2cents!

cian1500ww

How much is it going to put a meter on every single house in the entire country ??

Bad idea, it'll cost us a fortune

bluto63

The wastage of water in this country is insane. Take when it was snowing for example, people were leaving their taps on all night to prevent the freezing which was completely unnecessary! The government has to pay for that to be cleaned and purified and in turn, tax payers have to pay for it. And as it stands, only 40% of the water is making it to the taps. So that's a huge amount wasted, and therefore a huge amount of tax payers money wasted. So yes, I think it's a good idea for water to be regulated. It'll encourage people not to waste so much, those who do will pay for it and those who save water will benefit from it