Smart lie to new customers :(

HDfan

Read this:

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There is no info on main page about limits - 170 GB, and sales department lie when You try to order new connection. They said " digiweb-smart have no downloads limits "

They have info : " Unlimited downloads" and it is months after start limits.



My friend sign contract in december, he was lied like this. Now he stuck with them for 12 months.

Smart should give full terms before people sign contract

Spear

kudzRS wrote: »

so please get your facts straight before making slanderous remarks!!

From the front of your web page right this moment:

"No download limits means I can download whatever I want -Steve"

From your terms and conditions, section 23.1

"There are no specific download or upload limits imposed on you by us, except on our budget entry bundle."

HDfan

kudzRS :

i believe the exact line you receive is "there are no download limits, subject to fair usage"

no download limits = unlimited. If you have limits in fair usage it means you can't use no downloads limit. You can write: "there are download limits, subject to fair usage"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unlimited

un·lim·it·ed
1. Having no restrictions or controls: an unlimited travel ticket.
2. Having or seeming to have no boundaries; infinite: an unlimited horizon.
3. Without qualification or exception; absolute: unlimited self-confidence.

or a start Smart do not say "digiweb-Smart" as Smart is still trading as its own entity...

smart telecom was taken by digiweb. That is fact.
They working hand in hand. That is fact.
smart started limits after digiweb take smart. That is fact.
smart is movieng customer care to digiweb office. That is fact.

no info on smart web page about limits. That is fact.

when you order broadband, nobody give you info about limits. That is fact or not ?

shamonemofo

HDfan wrote: »

kudzRS :



no download limits = unlimited. If you have limits in fair usage it means you can't use no downloads limit. You can write: "there are download limits, subject to fair usage"

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/unlimited





smart telecom was taken by digiweb. That is fact.
They working hand in hand. That is fact.
smart started limits after digiweb take smart. That is fact.
smart is movieng customer care to digiweb office. That is fact.

no info on smart web page about limits. That is fact.

when you order broadband, nobody give you info about limits. That is fact or not ?

from the sounds of things buddy, i think you know more about Smart then Smart do themselves are you wearing a wire! haha!

jor el

HDfan wrote: »

smart started limits after digiweb take smart. That is fact.

Not fact. Smart introduced a 170GB cap on all it's products months ago, long before Digiweb took over.

HDfan wrote: »

smart is movieng customer care to digiweb office. That is fact.

Any proof of this?

Don't mix up your facts with opinion, it makes it difficult to believe the bits you do have right.

I've yet to see any official mention of Smart's new 170GB limit policy and I don't believe it's in the T&Cs yet, and they are still banging on about an unlimited service, which it hasn't been for some time now.

Even though 170GB a month is a sizable limit, and one of the largest for Irish ISPs, it's still a hell of a lot lower than their limit used to be.

HDfan

Any proof of this?

Info from smart forum. But now forum is off-line just for me or not ?

Spear

jor el wrote: »

Any proof of this?

Smart did state this openly themselves.

http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=3630

lucernarian

Customers shouldn't be expected to abide the idea of "unlimited internet access, subject to a fair usage policy". A contract shouldn't be called that if it's open-ended.

GigaByte

Well at least UPC's unlimited is alot higher than smarts unlimited cap!

AlmightyCushion

While I agree it is lying, a lot of them do it. Is it really that hard to say what the actual download limit is on the sales information and the terms anc conditions.,

HDfan

smart telecom forum is off-line for 24 h for me. Is it problem with my IP or they have tech. problems ?



I can not check my data usage.

dub45

There is little doubt that up to recently a lot of people joined Smart under the impression that there was no contention and no download limits - irrespective of what may have been in the terms and conditions Smart employees did nothing to alter this impression and has been pointed out earlier and in fact encouraged that belief.

Now if something has been the practise for a long period surely there should have been a recognition of this and a formal procedure to deal with it? It is quite extraordinary how in spite of all the so called up to date management techniques that are available in profusion how lacking a bit of common sense and consideration for customers is.

What would have been wrong with Smart giving a decent advance notice to customers that they would be introducing a cap? I have been with Smart since almost the beginning and while I dont download a lot I still would have liked the courtesy of being formally informed of a major change in policy.

It is difficult not to sympathise with someone using the 'digiweb-Smart' term.
Throttling has never been a Smart policy afaik and yet within an extraordinarily short term of the take over people are throttled again without any general communication to customers and in a manner that monumentally p******es of people.

It is incredibly depressing to read policy being made on the hoof in the Smart support forum and decisions being given out there which should be communicated to all customers. For example a reset charge of €8.50 appears to have simply 'appeared' out of nowhere.

Digiweb have obviously not set out to win friends and influence people.

Can anyone tell me what is the difference now between being with Digiweb and the new Smart? Unfortunately 'Smart' is obviously one adjective that we wont be applying to the new management or their actions.

MunsterCycling

HDfan wrote: »

smart telecom forum is off-line for 24 h for me. Is it problem with my IP or they have tech. problems ?



I can not check my data usage.

Just you, you've been posting non stop rubbish on the forums so I guess they canned you!

shamonemofo

It's definetly in there terms and conditions alright... 23.1 of The T&C's...


Sounds fair enough to me.... as i said, people don't read their t&c's anymore... Every company has this in place presumably

HDfan

Just you,

If it is true it is next nice step from smart.

First they introduced limits and throttle line ...

now they prevent me to check my data usage.

Thanks here is no censorship and we can write true about digiweb-smart.

shamonemofo

They didn't JUST introduce limits mate... They have always had a limit governed by the "Fair Usage Policy"... you have obviosuly been a bold boy and downloaded more than is deemed adequeate for home use! tee hee!

And aren't Smart and Digiweb still trading as two different companies???
When did thet become Digismartweb5000!??!

HDfan wrote: »

If it is true it is next nice step from smart.

First they introduced limits and throttle line ...

now they prevent me to check my data usage.

Thanks here is no censorship and we can write true about digiweb-smart.

HDfan

shamonemofo: specialy for U:

First they start limiting customers and throttle line ...

now they prevent me to check my data usage.

Thanks here is no censorship and we can write true about smart steps from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ).

Can somebody ask admins from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ), whem forum will be on-line, because I like to check my data usage.

pizzahead77

HDfan

The Smart forum is up and running. I am also able to view my usage data too.

HDfan

Thanks pizzahead77. Now and for me forum is on-line, it was just 24 h tech problem for my IP

Cabaal

HDfan wrote: »

shamonemofo: specialy for U:

First they start limiting customers and throttle line ...

now they prevent me to check my data usage.

Thanks here is no censorship and we can write true about smart steps from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ).

Can somebody ask admins from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ), whem forum will be on-line, because I like to check my data usage.

Actually boards.ie does not exist so you can make claims all you want, you must backup your statements.
Boards.ie does not give "free speech" to one and all, the site still must abid by the law.

You'd know for example that Smart imposed their FUP before Digiweb bought them.

Also can you please use the quote function correctly when quoting other people's posts.

It makes things confusing if you don't and nobody knows who your refering to when all you do is quote one or two words from another user.

HDfan I'm curious, how much stuff are your downloading in a month?

shamonemofo

Thanks for briging the NO censorship thing to my attention HDfan...!
I'm sure the moderators would disagree! haha!

HDfan wrote: »

shamonemofo: specialy for U:

First they start limiting customers and throttle line ...

now they prevent me to check my data usage.

Thanks here is no censorship and we can write true about smart steps from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ).

Can somebody ask admins from smart telecom ( who was taken by digiweb ), whem forum will be on-line, because I like to check my data usage.

misslt

HDfan wrote: »

smart telecom was taken by digiweb. That is fact.
They working hand in hand. That is fact.
smart is movieng customer care to digiweb office. That is fact.

These are facts, however in your opening statement you said smart reps are referring to themselves as 'Digiweb-Smart'.

This is not fact.

They are still trading as two separate companies, they are not 'Digiweb-Smart' as you keep saying...

Cabaal

misslt wrote: »

These are facts,

Thing is Smart started enforcing its FUP before Digiweb took ownership

misslt

Cabaal wrote: »

Thing is Smart started enforcing its FUP before Digiweb took ownership

Ooops, my bad. You are correct!

MunsterCycling

Cabaal wrote: »

Thing is Smart started enforcing its FUP before Digiweb took ownership

Which was really just aimed at the takeover talks to make them look more attractive to one of the worst ISPs for throttling in Ireland.

Cabaal

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Which was really just aimed at the takeover talks to make them look more attractive to one of the worst ISPs for throttling in Ireland.

Perhaps,
But again we're stating facts here and saying that Digiweb introduced FUP's/caps is not a fact

The party with Smart was never going to continue we all knew it deep down

misslt

Well, they went into examinership and pretty much went bust, because their unlimited usage policies cost too much.

So maybe enforcing a cap would be the logical step to try and save some money?

After the cap was brought in they had their first reported profit in god knows how long.

MunsterCycling

Well at least you can just reset usage data for €8.50 as many times as you like, yes that means reset back to 0, nada, ZERO

chopperbyrne

Who the hell downloads more than 5GB a day legally anyway?

I'd happily still sign up with Smart again knowing they have a cap as they have been without a doubt the best ISP I've ever had.

stephenc_ie

ChopperByrneAlt wrote: »

Who the hell downloads more than 5GB a day legally anyway?

maybe HD fan has found a good source of legal HD downloads...

Cabaal

MunsterCycling wrote: »

Well at least you can just reset usage data for €8.50 as many times as you like, yes that means reset back to 0, nada, ZERO

Not a bad option, certainly better then being charged 2c per 1MB

Basically yeah this had to happen, it was only a matter of time....sadly all ISP's are in it to make money and allowing users to pull down 100's or 1000's of Gigs in a month is not profitable.

I'd much prefer Smart do what they are doing then if they went bust as a company.

IrishTonyO

Is the SMART cap done like UPC, as in they have a 250Gb cap but that is for all traffic upload as well as download.

shamonemofo

I think the generic measurement for Cap/FUP with most ISP's would cover uploading and downloading... to the best of my knowledge

pizzahead77

IrishTonyO wrote: »

Is the SMART cap done like UPC, as in they have a 250Gb cap but that is for all traffic upload as well as download.

Yes - uploading is included in the cap

HDfan

ChopperByrneAlt

Who the hell downloads more than 5GB a day legally anyway?

If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

Dioza

HDfan wrote: »

ChopperByrneAlt


If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

Cabaal

Dioza wrote: »

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

RoyalMarine

HDfan wrote: »

ChopperByrneAlt


If you don't now: We have XXI cent. :

i Tune - legall series. movies, shows in HD. You pay , you download.

Steam - legal games, demos, updates, paches. You pay , you download.

You Tube - legall private movies, shows HD quality. You watch , you download.

HD camcorders - you make movie and you share with friends ( 1 h movie 2-3 GB ) you uploads to friends you , you downloads from friends.

DH TV - you pay monthly and you watch .

+ Skype + WebCam +....

and many more way to use your big.. large... 5.5 GB per day.

If you have family... it is even easier.

Dioza wrote: »

I have to agree with HD on this, playing xbox live, demos, downloads and patches can be in the regions of 1.5 gb each. A lot of youtube is in HD now. A lot of downloading can be done specially if theres more than one computer in the family.

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

aight, ive been throttled myself, and just want to add a small bit on this.

ive got a phone line in my apartment. i share the line with 6 other people.

between youtube, gaming, skype video calls, sharing video's and pics with family, web surfing, and occasionally some people using downloads, we hit over 400gb a month.

5.5gb is pure ****e per day when you break it down.

Cabaal

RoyalMarineComm wrote: »

5.5gb is pure ****e per day when you break it down.

The cap you want though is far above the average joe's internet usage in 30day period, as such if you want something more then you'll likely have to pay for it

Dioza

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

The new call of duty, 60 quid a once off payment. All the transfers that go on for a child playing that weekends and evenings add up. Theres no massive expendable income.

animaal

Relatively new Smart customer here.

I've been with them since the start of the year. When I was making the call to transfer my line too them, they were very up-front about the 170GB limit.

Overall, I'm very happy.

Cabaal

Dioza wrote: »

The new call of duty, 60 quid a once off payment. All the transfers that go on for a child playing that weekends and evenings add up. Theres no massive expendable income.

A child playing call of duty does not hit anywhere near 5GB and the large download of the game as a whole is a once off event.

You can try to justify whatever usage you want but fact remains is that 5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe residential broadband connection in Ireland or even the UK,

Dioza

Cabaal wrote: »

A child playing call of duty does not hit anywhere near 5GB and the large download of the game as a whole is a once off event.

You can try to justify whatever usage you want but fact remains is that 5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe residential broadband connection in Ireland or even the UK,

I'm just saying it all adds up. And whatever the average is still doesn't correct the fact that they are still advertising as unlimited.

http://www.smarttelecom.ie/residential_offnet/residential_offnet_compare.aspx

170 GB, no matter how you brake it down or work out averages or daily usage is still not unlimited and should not be described as.

HDfan

5GB a day is not normal usage for a average joe

Is smart telecom broadband for everyone ? or just for below average ?

If for everyone they should give option to select from. Now you pay 46 Euro have 24 Mb and 170 GB limit, your friend pay 8 Euro have 2 Mb and have..... o yes 170 GB. So nice.

If average Earnings in Irlend are 4 K that means somebody with 8 K is a bad man ? I don't think so

All I need is fair conditions for customers.

the_law

I have to agree with HDfan also. For one person on their own, yes 5GB is a lot... But many flats share broadband between 3/4 people - never mind student flats with 5+ in them.

For 4 people in a flat/house, 170GB = 42.5GB each = 1.37Gb/day... not so big any more.

My personal internet usage (I live alone) is around 220GB/month... now I'm on UPC, so that suits fine. I used be on Smart back before caps and actually would have gone with them by choice in my new flat (I found their service excellent) but they weren't available, and just as well with all this low-cap messing around.

Edit: 1.37Gb per day is less than an hour of HD youtube.

Dioza

I'll just post what i posted on the smart forums on their site.

1. I was with Digiweb and the plan i was on there had a 40Gb cap per month, anything over that was slow but usable at maybe 40kbs. Now to check my email with a throttled smart line i have time to make a cup of tea while it loads.

2. I was not aware of the "fair usage" condition untill last friday, i know the whole "you should always read the T&C of anything you sign up to" but 'comon, its on the website as "Unlimited" so i had no reason to doubt that it wasn't. I don't see how the word unlimited can be used on a product that isn't. Digiweb was "unlimited" providing i stay within the 40Gb download limit per month but they had it advertised online as what it was.

3. As i said, being unaware of the fair usage condition, i rang up smart friday last to see what was up with my connection. On hold for more than half an hour (on a mobile as i only have the landline for the internet) which cost €14. After moving from 6th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 4th, I finally got through and this is the conversation i had, bear in mind i'm on hold 35-40 mins.

After giving account details etc.
Me : I'm just calling up to see if theres a problem with my connection
Him : No, its on the computer here that your being penalised for exceeding the fair usage limit, it's 170Gb or there abouts.
Me : But i'm on a contract for unlimited broadband? It said so on the website when i ordered.
Him : No it says quote, unlimited. unquote (thats exactly what he said)
Me : Ok whatever, thats grand bye.
Him : Wait sir, would you like me to lift the throttle?

At that point he took my email address and its now tuesday and i still have slow speeds. The next day i got an email alright but that was the "warning" notification that i never received.

To be honest the 170GB i could live with although its not originally what i signed up to, its the way i (and alot of others) have been treated.

dub45

Cabaal wrote: »

None the less there is a limit to how much stuff you watch even as a family, so that covers videos.

As for games there's a limit to how much money you pay for games on the likes of steam and if you have that much expendable income and are that pushed about caps then a business line woukd be more suitable.

But why should you or anyone else decide that there is a limit to anyones use?

Should sky offer only a certain number of channels because nobody could possible make use of them all? Should people not have a television and radio because you defintely can't use them together. It is up to people themselves to decide what they want to do with their disposable income not yourself.
Several people here have made a good case for legitimate use of a considerable volume of data per day and increasingly entertanment is being planned on the basis of downloads rather that disc media.

For example it is widely accepted now that blue ray will be last video disc medium and to replace blue ray by downloads is going to involve a considerable amount of data. If the apple tablet is anywhere near the type rumoured then it seems to have the potential for a lot of downloading or streaming. And so it goes..............

dub45

Dioza wrote: »

I'll just post what i posted on the smart forums on their site.

1. I was with Digiweb and the plan i was on there had a 40Gb cap per month, anything over that was slow but usable at maybe 40kbs. Now to check my email with a throttled smart line i have time to make a cup of tea while it loads.

2. I was not aware of the "fair usage" condition untill last friday, i know the whole "you should always read the T&C of anything you sign up to" but 'comon, its on the website as "Unlimited" so i had no reason to doubt that it wasn't. I don't see how the word unlimited can be used on a product that isn't. Digiweb was "unlimited" providing i stay within the 40Gb download limit per month but they had it advertised online as what it was.

3. As i said, being unaware of the fair usage condition, i rang up smart friday last to see what was up with my connection. On hold for more than half an hour (on a mobile as i only have the landline for the internet) which cost €14. After moving from 6th, 5th, 4th, 5th, 4th, I finally got through and this is the conversation i had, bear in mind i'm on hold 35-40 mins.

After giving account details etc.
Me : I'm just calling up to see if theres a problem with my connection
Him : No, its on the computer here that your being penalised for exceeding the fair usage limit, it's 170Gb or there abouts.
Me : But i'm on a contract for unlimited broadband? It said so on the website when i ordered.
Him : No it says quote, unlimited. unquote (thats exactly what he said)
Me : Ok whatever, thats grand bye.
Him : Wait sir, would you like me to lift the throttle?

At that point he took my email address and its now tuesday and i still have slow speeds. The next day i got an email alright but that was the "warning" notification that i never received.

To be honest the 170GB i could live with although its not originally what i signed up to, its the way i (and alot of others) have been treated.

Isn't it incredible that someone in Smart or should I say Digiweb cannot perceive that this type of nonsense from the long wait for an answer to the behaviour of the csr is going to drive customers mad?:mad:

What was the urgency in implementing the throttle particularly when they seem to lifting it - albeit eventually - if you ask nicely?

Dioza

The thing is it seems to be only people who ask to be restored are being so and even at that i think it depends how nice you ask.

http://support.smarttelecom.ie/forums/showthread.php?t=3644&page=2

The admins just take them as they come in. I would ring up tomorrow and try to switch to a lower speed package so as not to hit my 170 so soon but i don't fancy spending my last 10 quid credit trying to do so.

the_law

Dioza, try the forums at support.smarttelecom.ie/forums - some people were being reset by asking the admins nicely...

Edit: Dioza, it's clear from your last post that you know the forums exist. I'll shut up now.

Dioza

the_law wrote: »

Dioza, try the forums at support.smarttelecom.ie/forums - some people were being reset by asking the admins nicely...

Edit: Dioza, it's clear from your last post that you know the forums exist. I'll shut up now.

Yup, thanks tho

Fingers crossed I'm on the list and I'll be reset tonight/tomorrow and get back to polluting my head with all sorts of cyber trash :pac: