Another "jump the shark moment" for Chavez

silverharp

given the scale of the disaster his comments that the US caused the Eartquake seem very distasteful to say the least

<EDIT> its not widely reported, so it maybe a non story


http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/286145

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has accused the United States of causing the devastating 7.0 magnitude earthquake in Haiti, which killed possibly 200,000 people. Chavez believes the U.S. was testing a tectonic weapon to produce eco-type devastations.

Last week, Digital Journal reported that the Venezuelan President accused the United States of using Haiti’s earthquake as a pretext to occupy the Caribbean country, and since then the US has deployed thousands of troops to the region to bring law and order.
Chavez is blaming the US for causing the 7.0 magnitude earthquake in Haiti as part of testing a “tectonic weapon” that can cause eco-type disasters, according to Russia Today. The Latin American leader added that the US should “stop playing God.”
Chavez said these “weapon earthquakes” would eventually be used against Iran and be taken over by the US military.
Chavez says these weapons can alter the climate and set off earthquakes and volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves..............

ei.sdraob

ouch thats conspiracy theory forum type of ramblings from El Presidento

anyways, did you not get the party memo? Chavez is a good guy apparently

nesf

*waits patiently for Chavez fans to find a way to support this*

mike65

The man is a joke, its just a pity so many can't/won't see it, prefering to think that anyone who is anti-USA must be worth supporting.

southsiderosie

Smoke and mirrors.

I think this announcement has nothing to do with the US and everything to do with the fact that in the last 48 hours the Chavez government has:

* fast tracked a new rule allowing them to immediately expropriate businesses that adjust their prices due to the devaluation. The government can now do this without any kind of court order or administrative proceedings.

* Threatened to shut down an anti-government cable channel for not showing "government programming" i.e. Chavez's 5 hour ramblings.

The earthquake nonsense is just a distraction from the fact that the regime is actively dismantling what is left of Venezuelan democracy.

dvpower

I'm sceptical.

This would be a bizzare thing for Chavez to say.
A google search brings up this story being reported by news sources that I'm not familiar with and I don't see it being reported by mainstream media.

Fox news have carried the story but they attribute the comments, not to Chavez, but to a "Chavez Mouthpiece".

I could be wrong, but I smell a rat.

ei.sdraob

RussiaToday is not mainstream enough?

dvpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

RussiaToday is not mainstream enough?

No.
Russia Today are only reporting what some Spanish newspaper has reported.

If this was real, I'd expect to see it widely reported.

Mainstream media have widely reported Chavez' comments on the earthquake (that the US is using the earthquake as a pretext for a US occupation etc.) but are not mentioning the tectonic weapon claim. It doesn't add up for me.

How about you? Are you buying it?

southsiderosie

dvpower wrote: »

I'm sceptical.

This would be a bizzare thing for Chavez to say.
A google search brings up this story being reported by news sources that I'm not familiar with and I don't see it being reported by mainstream media.

Fox news have carried the story but they attribute the comments, not to Chavez, but to a "Chavez Mouthpiece".

I could be wrong, but I smell a rat.

One of the Spanish newspapers picked up the story earlier this week, but ABC is very conservative. I didn't see it in any of the other papers.

Whether this story is actually true or not, it's sad that it seems completely plausible that Chavez would say something like this; he is no stranger to bizarre statements and proposals.

dvpower

southsiderosie wrote: »

One of the Spanish newspapers picked up the story earlier this week, but ABC is very conservative. I didn't see it in any of the other papers.

Whether this story is actually true or not, it's sad that it seems completely plausible that Chavez would say something like this; he is no stranger to bizarre statements and proposals.

Yeah. That's the paper that Russia Today are recycling the story from.

I think this claim is too out there, even for Chavez. Having said that, if it was widely reported in reputable media, I'd be prepared to believe it. But its such a good story, if it was true, I'd expect to see it everywhere.

Truthrevolution

Although his timing is not ideal, it would be foolish to dismiss the president of an established nation.The corporate controlled media have been ignoring more serious comments from Chavez such as the long term US plans to occupy Haiti,take advantage of its oil resources and the IMF "bailout" which will effectively now own the Haiti manufacturing industry

ei.sdraob

dvpower wrote: »

No.
Russia Today are only reporting what some Spanish newspaper has reported.

If this was real, I'd expect to see it widely reported.

Mainstream media have widely reported Chavez' comments on the earthquake (that the US is using the earthquake as a pretext for a US occupation etc.) but are not mentioning the tectonic weapon claim. It doesn't add up for me.

How about you? Are you buying it?

Your claiming that is all all conspiracy to make Chavez appear as if he painted a conspiracy

yes clear as mud :P

not the first time that he accused US of crazy stuff


btw this article from Iranian PressTV is interesting http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116834&sectionid=351020104

An unconfirmed report by the Russian Northern Fleets says the Haiti earthquake was caused by a flawed US Navy 'earthquake weapons' test before the weapons could be utilized against Iran.

United States Navy test of one of its 'earthquake weapons' which was to be used against Iran, went 'horribly wrong' and caused the catastrophic quake in the Caribbean, the website of Venezuela's ViVe TV recently reported, citing the Russian report.

After the report was released, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez also made a similar claim, saying that a US drill, carried out in preparation for a deliberate attempt to cause an earthquake in Iran, had led to the deadly incident in Haiti, claiming more than 110,000 lives.

Though Russian Northern Fleets' report was not confirmed by official sources, the comments attracted special attention in some US and Russian media outlets including Fox news and Russia Today.

Russia Today's report said that Moscow has also been accused of possessing and utilizing such weapons.

In 2002, a Georgian Green Party leader claimed that Moscow had instigated an earthquake on Georgian territory, the TV channel said.

According to ViVe, the unconfirmed Russian report says earlier this month the US carried out a similar test in the Pacific Ocean, which also caused another 6.5 magnitude earthquake in an area near the town of Eureka, California.

The California quake resulted in no deaths or serious injury, but left many buildings damaged.

The Venezuelan news website said that the report also introduced the possibility that the US Navy may have had "full knowledge" of the damage that the test could cause.

The report also speculated that knowledge of the possible outcome was why the US military had pre-positioned the deputy commander of US Southern Command, General P. K. Keen, on the island so that he could oversee relief efforts if the need arose.

Based on the alleged report, the ultimate goal of the US weapons tests was to initiate a series of deadly earthquakes in Iran to topple the current Islamic system in the country.

The tests are believed to be part of the United States' High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program (HAARP), which has been associated with many conspiracy theories.

Other than being blamed for earthquakes, HAARP has also been associated with weather anomalies that cause floods, droughts and hurricanes.

Some sources have even linked the 7.8 magnitude quake that shook the Chinese city of Sichuan in May 12, 2008 with the program.

Allegations have been made that since the late 1970's, the US has 'greatly advanced' the state of its earthquake weapons to the point where it is now utilizing devices that employ a Tesla Electromagnetic Pulse, Plasma and Sonic technology, along with 'shockwave bombs.'

Russia has accused the US military of employing such devices in Afghanistan to trigger the devastating 7.2 magnitude earthquake that hit the country back in March, 2002.

In the mid-1990s the Russian State Duma issued a press release on HAARP, which was signed by 90 deputies. The statement said the US was "creating new integral geophysical weapons that may influence the near-Earth medium with high-frequency radio waves."

"The significance of this qualitative leap could be compared to the transition from cold steel to firearms, or from conventional weapons to nuclear weapons.”

“This new type of weapons differ from previous types in that the near-Earth medium becomes at once an object of direct influence and its component,” the statement explained.

In 1997, US Secretary of Defense William Cohen also expressed concern about activities that "can alter the climate, set off earthquakes, volcanoes remotely through the use of electromagnetic waves."

The US government, however, has chosen to stick to its position that HAARP is merely a program aimed at analyzing the Earth's ionosphere for the purpose of developing communications and surveillance technology.

southsiderosie

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Although his timing is not ideal, it would be foolish to dismiss the president of an established nation.The corporate controlled media have been ignoring more serious comments from Chavez such as the long term US plans to occupy Haiti,take advantage of its oil resources and the IMF "bailout" which will effectively now own the Haiti manufacturing industry

I've seen plenty of articles that reported Chavez's comments about the US "occupation" of Haiti in European newspapers and the Spanish-language press.

If the only major newspaper to report this story was ABC, then I'd question its validity. Since Chavez-friendly websites aren't reporting it then I'd guess that a) he (or someone in the government) never really said it or b) that even if someone did, even supporters of the regime thought it was too bizarre to run with it.

dvpower

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Your claiming that is all all conspiracy to make Chavez appear as if he painted a conspiracy

yes clear as mud :P

I don't think there is any conspiracy at all.
A right wing Spanish newspaper print a nonsense story - nothing unusual about that; lazy newspapers print rubbish all of the time. Russia Today report on that report and DigitalJournal report on the Russia Today piece. Boards posters who dislike Chavez (and for good reason) suspend their critical faculties when they see a story that is critical of him.

Basically, there's nothing to see here.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

btw this article from Iranian PressTV is interesting http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116834&sectionid=351020104

We have a whole separate forum for that kind of thing.

SLUSK

Are their any clips of Chavez actually saying this? Can anyone who understands Spanish confirm that Chavez made these accusations? I personally hate Chavez but I can't believe he said something this silly.

ei.sdraob

SLUSK wrote: »

Are their any clips of Chavez actually saying this? Can anyone who understands Spanish confirm that Chavez made these accusations? I personally hate Chavez but I can't believe he said something this silly.

i wouldnt put it past him

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6999028.ece

In a co-ordinated attack, the leaders of Bolivia, Nicaragua and Venezuela accused Washington of staging a military invasion.

Evo Morales, the President of Bolivia, said he would request an emergency UN meeting “to repudiate and reject this military occupation of the United States in Haiti".

"It’s not right that the United States should use this natural disaster to invade and militarily occupy Haiti,” he said. “If you have all these problems with the injured and the dead from the earthquake, you have to go there to save lives, and you don’t do that from a military standpoint."

Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelan President, added: “They brazenly occupied Haiti without consulting the UN or the OAS (Organization of American States)."

lets not forget that this is a country where they are shooting aid workers making it hard for them to do their job of rescuing and feeding people

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/haiti.orphanages.attacks/?hpt=Sbin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/7010543/Haiti-earthquake-criminal-gangs-return-to-rule-slums-after-escaping-from-prison.html


its rather sick to see that Chavez is the one using this disaster for political point scoring

silverharp

fair points, I added a little disclaimer for now.

southsiderosie

SLUSK wrote: »

Are their any clips of Chavez actually saying this? Can anyone who understands Spanish confirm that Chavez made these accusations? I personally hate Chavez but I can't believe he said something this silly.

Considering that the ABC article opened with "The anti-American government of Venezuela, in its habitual paranoia against Yankee imperialism..." I'm not sure that they are very objective :rolleyes:.

There is nothing on the Venezuelan government's webpage about this. There was another website which had a video, but whoever posted it didn't speak Spanish, because he didn't say anything about the US. I think if Chavez or someone in the government had really said this and believed it, it would be on their website.

brianthebard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

its rather sick to see that Chavez is the one using this disaster for political point scoring

You're right, he's such a prick going in there with his army, holding up aid so that more troops can be deployed first, parachuting troops into the presidential palace... oh wait.

I wasn't going to comment on this as it seems to be the usual non story of a right wing source and a purposively dodgy translation that we've seen used again and again with left wing South American leaders, but the idea that Chavez is the one trying to score points here was just too ridiculous to let pass.

SLUSK

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i wouldnt put it past him

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article6999028.ece



lets not forget that this is a country where they are shooting aid workers making it hard for them to do their job of rescuing and feeding people

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/01/21/haiti.orphanages.attacks/?hpt=Sbin
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/centralamericaandthecaribbean/haiti/7010543/Haiti-earthquake-criminal-gangs-return-to-rule-slums-after-escaping-from-prison.html


its rather sick to see that Chavez is the one using this disaster for political point scoring

As far as I know I cannot find sources to prove that Chavez said America caused the earthquake in Haiti which this thread was about.

nesf

brianthebard wrote: »

You're right, he's such a prick going in there with his army, holding up aid so that more troops can be deployed first, parachuting troops into the presidential palace... oh wait.

I wasn't going to comment on this as it seems to be the usual non story of a right wing source and a purposively dodgy translation that we've seen used again and again with left wing South American leaders, but the idea that Chavez is the one trying to score points here was just too ridiculous to let pass.

Russia Today is right wing?

ei.sdraob

brianthebard wrote: »

You're right, he's such a prick going in there with his army, holding up aid so that more troops can be deployed first, parachuting troops into the presidential palace... oh wait.

I wasn't going to comment on this as it seems to be the usual non story of a right wing source and a purposively dodgy translation that we've seen used again and again with left wing South American leaders, but the idea that Chavez is the one trying to score points here was just too ridiculous to let pass.

why doesn't he send security personnel? Haiti was one of the most violent places in world even in "best" of times

the aidworkers (and the locals for that matter) could use with more security (and Venezuela also has people there now helping) about now, having gangs roam and make advantage of the anarchy by stealing from already starving children is not on

if anything the UN should have been calling a mission by now, but UN are terribly slow at organizing anything

ei.sdraob

SLUSK wrote: »

As far as I know I cannot find sources to prove that Chavez said America caused the earthquake in Haiti which this thread was about.

your correct in that, and the OP has edited things

now the conversation has moved on to why Chavez is making farting noises about other countries trying to help Haiti (and hence why i wouldnt put it past him to say something as silly as the op article claims)

dvpower

nesf wrote: »

Russia Today is right wing?

Russia Today were just reporting what was reported by abc.es. They are right wing.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

now the conversation has moved on to why Chavez is making farting noises about other countries trying to help Haiti

Because he's an a**hole.

Truthrevolution

ei.sdraob wrote: »

why doesn't he send security personnel? Haiti was one of the most violent places in world even in "best" of times

the aidworkers (and the locals for that matter) could use with more security (and Venezuela also has people there now helping) about now, having gangs roam and make advantage of the anarchy by stealing from already starving children is not on

if anything the UN should have been calling a mission by now, but UN are terribly slow at organizing anything

The idea that they are holding back aid as a result of gang violence is yet another media manipulated story.Reports on the ground in Haiti are saying that there is very little violence, just aggrivated people trying to get fed.The reality is that the UN have failed to prepare properly for this disaster and are using the "violence" as an excuse for the delaying of food and supplies

ei.sdraob

Truthrevolution wrote: »

The idea that they are holding back aid as a result of gang violence is yet another media manipulated story

do you have any facts to support this conspiracy theory of yours?
its also sad to see a moderator agreeing with you,

i supplied news reports to support my side of story
that certain violent elements (the prison collapsed with some dangerous prisoners escaping) in one of the already most violent countries in world are interfering with aid operations

heres one from earlier today
http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=10/01/23/0230224
amateur radio hams shot at while trying to setup emergency communication equipment
one dead

is that conspiracy theory too :rolleyes:? in order to make Chavez or Haitians look bad?



heres reports of more people who are trying to help getting shot > http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/01/16/dominican-aid-workers-sho_n_426067.html


oh and are the Canadians also trying to "occupy" Haiti? > http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2265531

The Canadian military is poised to assume control of a swathe of southern Haiti, including the major seaside city of Jacmel, according to military sources here.

well that throws a spanner in US invasion conspiracy theory

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Reports on the ground in Haiti are saying that there is very little violence, just aggrivated people trying to get fed.The reality is that the UN have failed to prepare properly for this disaster and are using the "violence" as an excuse for the delaying of food and supplies

its all peaceful in Haiti

there are no looters attacking aid centers

Joey the lips

You got to love chevez. He even gets attributes to quotes he has yet to publish. I guess the u s will get very annoyed and stop buying his oil now.


Oh wait......

Overheal

Truthrevolution wrote: »

The idea that they are holding back aid as a result of gang violence is yet another media manipulated story.Reports on the ground in Haiti are saying that there is very little violence, just aggrivated people trying to get fed.The reality is that the UN have failed to prepare properly for this disaster and are using the "violence" as an excuse for the delaying of food and supplies

The Associated Press disagrees

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKldjnpVcKU

More from ITN News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYShPX1clYw

Sand

Chavez is a bit of a clown - typical raving el Presidente type. Happily I live many thousands of miles from Venezeula so I dont have to suffer the consequences of the rabid support he was given by others as he destroyed constitutional democracy in Venezeula. Happily for the majority of them, they also live many thousands of miles from Venezeula.

I guess the only losers are Venezeulans who have been ground down into quasi-slavery in a charismatic dictatorship and are suffering massive electricity rationing ( in a country blessed with massive oil reserves) as the economic incompetence underlying socialism comes home to roost.

I wonder though - If Chavez was to lose the next election, does anyone think he would admit it and go quietly? Having already prepared by creating and arming party militias to defend the revolution?

Of course it seems a little crazy for Chavez to rave on about sekrit US earthquake weapons. But this is Chavez. The same man who predicted a massive US invasion of Venezeula....any second now. And also declared war on golf, and has every turn attempted to polarise Venezeula and create and stoke internal conflict so as to better cement his own power. The guy is a clown. Even the most stalwart socialist is a little embarrassed to be associated with him these days.

Truthrevolution

Ok have read the articles and watched the videos, still no real evidence of violence other than a bit of pushing and shoving for food supplies..........
Heres an account of whats happening on the ground from an aid worker

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/20/haiti-aid-agency-security

Overheal

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Ok have read the articles and watched the videos, still no real evidence of violence other than a bit of pushing and shoving for food supplies..........
Heres an account of whats happening on the ground from an aid worker

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/20/haiti-aid-agency-security

......And violently beating people to a pulp with no evident signs of remorse.

ei.sdraob

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Ok have read the articles and watched the videos, still no real evidence of violence other than a bit of pushing and shoving for food supplies..........
Heres an account of whats happening on the ground from an aid worker

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jan/20/haiti-aid-agency-security

i posted a link earlier to a man who was shot dead, was part of convoy who set out to install emergency communication equipment

heres more

SANTO DOMINGO – Two Dominicans were seriously wounded after being shot Saturday as they handed out aid in quake-stricken Haiti, local media here reported.

According to reports, Carlos Gatas and Milton Matos arrived at the embassy of the Dominican Republic in Port-au-Prince with gunshot wounds after an apparent attack.

Gatas' injuries were so serious that Dominican armed forces evacuated him by helicopter to Jimani on the border with Haiti and then on to Barahona, for treatment at a local hospital.

Matos was treated at a building being used the UN peacekeeping force MINUSTAH, reports said.

Aid has been pouring into Haiti in the wake of Tuesday's massive 7.0 earthquake, but poor organization and the difficult logistical situation has made it hard to get the relief out to the country's desperate population.

http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20100117-247832/2-Dominicans-shot-in-Haiti-during-relief-effort


<sarcasm>
but lets ignore reports of people who are trying to help being killed or injured, because a journalist in the Guardian opinion peace says so

brazilian, canadian and american soldiers are there to occupy the country (why?) not to help provide some stability and order

Truthrevolution

Overheal wrote: »

......And violently beating people to a pulp with no evident signs of remorse.

Please read my article before posting silly messages.Nobody was beaten to a pulp, a handful of men wielding sticks through a crowd but nobody getting injured

Truthrevolution

ei.sdraob wrote: »

i posted a link earlier to a man who was shot dead, was part of convoy who set out to install emergency communication equipment

heres more



http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/world/view/20100117-247832/2-Dominicans-shot-in-Haiti-during-relief-effort


<sarcasm>
but lets ignore reports of people who are trying to help being killed or injured, because a journalist in the Guardian opinion peace says so

brazilian, canadian and american soldiers are there to occupy the country (why?) not to help provide some stability and order

Im not saying theres absolutely no violence going on in Haiti, but the situation is being exaggerated and made look alot worse than it is.Any small incidences of aggression recorded are being sensationalised and flashed before our screens by mainstream media.The UN is saying that they are holding back aid supplies because of this violence and if the military cant hold some stability in a small island such as Haiti then what hope have we got in fighting real terrorism.

Haiti is being primarily occupied by US troops with assistence from other countries, those of you who think that that the US are not going to occupy Haiti to take advantage of its resources are being seriously naive.Some of you guys need a serious wake up call.

southsiderosie

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Im not saying theres absolutely no violence going on in Haiti, but the situation is being exaggerated and made look alot worse than it is.Any small incidences of aggression recorded are being sensationalised and flashed before our screens by mainstream media.The UN is saying that they are holding back aid supplies because of this violence and if the military cant hold some stability in a small island such as Haiti then what hope have we got in fighting real terrorism.

Haiti is being primarily occupied by US troops with assistence from other countries, those of you who think that that the US are not going to occupy Haiti to take advantage of its resources are being seriously naive.Some of you guys need a serious wake up call.

I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again: what resources does Haiti have to take advantage of???

Truthrevolution

southsiderosie wrote: »

I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again: what resources does Haiti have to take advantage of???

Read this interesting article, use the google bar at the top of the page to translate it.

http://www.metropolehaiti.com/metropole/full_une_fr.php?id=13439

ei.sdraob

southsiderosie wrote: »

I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again: what resources does Haiti have to take advantage of???

same, that really does throw a wrench into conspiracy theories being flamed by Chavez and Co

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiti

It had a nominal GDP of 7.018 billion USD in 2009,

we (unfortunately ) handed more money than that to our banks last year to put things into perspective

Mangoes and coffee are two of Haiti's most important exports

Foreign aid makes up approximately 30–40% of the national government's budget. The largest donor is the United States – followed by Canada, and the European Union

there were Brazilian troops in the country for years now on a UN mission, there are now Canadian and US troops trying to bring some sort of order into a country that was already falling apart before the quake
you have the police chief in the Haitian capital appealing for help

how is that an "invasion"?


For Chavez and people here to shout invasion while ignoring the situation there is rather silly and malicious

ei.sdraob

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Read this interesting article, use the google bar at the top of the page to translate it.

http://www.metropolehaiti.com/metropole/full_une_fr.php?id=13439

can the mods move this thread to Conspiracy Theories forum

this thread has got rather rediculos for politics forum with a lot of "allegations" and little facts being posted


earthquake weapons, invasion over claimed oil. i regret joining this thread its rather on the loolaaa side of things

Truthrevolution

ei.sdraob wrote: »

can the mods move this thread to Conspiracy Theories forum

this thread has got rather rediculos for politics forum with a lot of "allegations" and little facts being posted


earthquake weapons, invasion over claimed oil. i regret joining this thread its rather on the loolaaa side of things

Ah...... the typical soundbite, when loosing a debate just write off your opponent as a conspiracy theorist

ei.sdraob

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Ah...... the typical soundbite, when loosing a debate just write off your opponent as a conspiracy theorist

you are correct my friend

its an invasion to take over Haiti's proven oil reserves

:pac:

Joey the lips

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60G2DW20100117

No mention of earthquake machines... I detect the old fashioned sparring with the US. Nothing worthy of such daft theories.

Overheal

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Please read my article before posting silly messages.Nobody was beaten to a pulp, a handful of men wielding sticks through a crowd but nobody getting injured

I have.

Please watch The Associated Press video I posted.

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Ah...... the typical soundbite, when loosing a debate just write off your opponent as a conspiracy theorist

Perhaps instead of getting so defensive you can support your claims that the United States (and the United Nations) is Conspiring to extort Haiti for its Resources.

Truthrevolution wrote:

Haiti is being primarily occupied by US troops with assistence [sic] from other countries, those of you who think that that the US are not going to occupy Haiti to take advantage of its resources are being seriously naive.Some of you guys need a serious wake up call.

Truthrevolution

Overheal wrote: »

I have.

Please watch The Associated Press video I posted.

Perhaps instead of getting so defensive you can support your claims that the United States (and the United Nations) is Conspiring to extort Haiti for its Resources.

First of all i never claimed that the UN are extorting Haiti for anything.I did however provide a link a few posts back with Haiti officials stating that the US have reserved strategic oil deposits on the island.

And if your still under the illusion that the US isnt there for long term occupation, here it is from the horses mouth in Washington
http://presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=116762&sectionid=351020706

Heres a video showing the upsurge in troops drafting into Haiti.The locals are claiming that they dont think its necessary for all the military activity, defence minister is also shown backing up their claims.Looks to me more like an invasion than a humanitarian aid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyGAgW2psn0

Joey the lips

Just for the record it seems we have yet to see actual credable sources of chavez blaming tectonic weapons but just in case you though he was delusional and on his own it seems the russians believe the same

"The U.S. is creating new integral geophysical weapons that may influence the near-Earth medium with high-frequency radio waves ... The significance of this qualitative leap could be compared to the transition from cold steel to firearms, or from conventional weapons to nuclear weapons. This new type of weapons differs from previous types in that the near-Earth medium becomes at once an object of direct influence and its component"

I can provide a linkies if you wish.

southsiderosie

Truthrevolution wrote: »

Read this interesting article, use the google bar at the top of the page to translate it.

http://www.metropolehaiti.com/metropole/full_une_fr.php?id=13439

Hm, the translation I got was pretty mangled, and I can't read French. From what I got, Haiti has untapped oil reserves, but hasn't tapped them because the US has claimed the entire Caribbean basin? I hope that is not what the article actually said, because that is nonsensical.

I found a blog which posted materials making similar claims in English, and again I don't buy it. First of all, Haiti doesn't even appear on the list of countries with proven reserves; whatever is there may be purely speculative. Second of all, these days, developing countries who want to tap their oil reserves don't need US or European multinationals to do it - they can call on the Chinese (CNOOC) or the Brazilians (Petrobras) to set up public-private partnerships. Petrobras in particular is a good example of this kind of public-private enterprise, and they are one of the most technically advanced operations in the world. If these reserves are so significant, then why hasn't the Haitian government invited foreign investment in to exploit them? Finally, it's not clear to my why the US would have control over oil fields in a sovereign territory as the original article seems to claim. The US government can't claim the entire region as a "reserve"; Trinidad and Tobago is a small Caribbean country with lots of oil and gas that they have been pumping for years, and we haven't bulldozed over them yet :rolleyes:.

Joey the lips

http://www.cnbc.com/id/35049676/site/14081545/for/cnbc/

It seems italy might agree with "those south american dictators."

southsiderosie

Joey the lips wrote: »

http://www.cnbc.com/id/35049676/site/14081545/for/cnbc/

It seems italy might agree with "those south american dictators."

I agree with the Italian minister that the response has been chaotic, but my question would be, what is the answer? He offers that there needs to be some kind of international organization that is charge; well the UN was there, but most of their administrative staff was killed in the earthquake. As for the EU, well, they can't agree on anything when it comes to EU political issues, much less foreign policy issues. The humanitarian aid groups are all screaming that nobody is in charge, but then they don't like the approach of the US. Ultimately, the coordinator for the relief effort should have been the Haitian government, and they have failed miserably in this regard.

I actually see some of the aid groups as part of the problem, to be honest. Yes they provide essential services (which is good), but too often they do so independent of the state, meaning there is weakened state capacity when it comes to providing services, and there is little to no accountability on the part of the state to its citizens. Haiti is basically a client state of aid organizations, many of which function as semi-autonomous groups. So is it any wonder that there is chaos today - there is a weak government, a bunch of pre-existing aid fiefdoms, and no external "point organization" with the capacity to organize what is an unprecedented disaster relief effort.

Finally, I think the constant comparisons to Katrina are wrong-headed in that the failure of the initial response was a failure of state and local government, not national government. The only organizations that came out of Katrina looking competent were the Coast Guard and the National Guard, i.e. the military.

Joey the lips

southsiderosie wrote: »

I agree with the Italian minister that the response has been chaotic,........

My point was its not only chavez that thinks the us approach is wrong. Its just chavez is a "Sound bite" as phrased earlier by which the world seem to base many of there responses on, in otherwords they do the opposite to what he says. This despite the massive amount of oil the country exports into the world economy.

We seem to find it easier to be critical of a socialist like chavez and his policies then looking at world policy in general and asking questions like

Why are so many africian countries allowed still carry on with corrupt govt and cause the genocide and starvation of so many people?

Then again when asking this we have to ask western influence on these countries.

So really when you look at how fooked up the world is its rearly far apart from the greed of western influence. I can give example....


However we then look at countries like

Cuba. Its world classs health service

China. Most of the worlds ecomony is based on chinese demand and its saving

Cuba. = oil

These are predomonantly socialist countries and while socialism in its pure form is unpallatable to many I cannot see where capitalism in its pure form has benefited the many but rather the few at the top..

southsiderosie

Joey the lips wrote: »

My point was its not only chavez that thinks the us approach is wrong. Its just chavez is a "Sound bite" as phrased earlier by which the world seem to base many of there responses on, in otherwords they do the opposite to what he says. This despite the massive amount of oil the country exports into the world economy.

We seem to find it easier to be critical of a socialist like chavez and his policies then looking at world policy in general and asking questions like

Why are so many africian countries allowed still carry on with corrupt govt and cause the genocide and starvation of so many people?

Then again when asking this we have to ask western influence on these countries.

So really when you look at how fooked up the world is its rearly far apart from the greed of western influence. I can give example....


However we then look at countries like

Cuba. Its world classs health service

China. Most of the worlds ecomony is based on chinese demand and its saving

Cuba. = oil

These are predomonantly socialist countries and while socialism in its pure form is unpallatable to many I cannot see where capitalism in its pure form has benefited the many but rather the few at the top..

But the difference between Chavez and the Italian minister is that Chavez thinks the US is "invading" Haiti out of some kind of imperial ambitions, whereas the Italians don't like that the US is taking a military approach to a humanitarian crisis.

This is not a thread about Cuba and its health service, and I am not going to get involved in that argument again. As for China, I would not classify them as a socialist state, I would call them state-run capitalism. Actually, it's not clear to me where a debate about socialism belongs in this thread at all.

The original point of the thread was already addressed: there is not a great deal of evidence that Chavez said that the US caused the earthquake. However, there is plenty of evidence that he has claimed that the US is trying to benefit from Haiti's current misery. Like I said in a previous post, I don't see what kind of economic or "imperialist" benefit the US gets out of involvement with Haiti. And I think Chavez's ranting against the US has less to do with an actual beef grounded in reality (in contrast to the Italian minister), and more to do with the fact that the louder he bangs the drum against the US (and earns the rapturous attention of anti-US leftists), the more he distracts attention from the increasingly repressive actions of his government against its own citizens.

ei.sdraob

southsiderosie wrote: »

, the more he distracts attention from the increasingly repressive actions of his government against its own citizens.

bingo

above + dismantling a democratic system for his aims


something that @JoetheLips rather prefers to ignore, since his the favorite "socialist" dictator of the month right now

after all why would people need those pesky things like liberty, freedom of speech, democracy (all lacking in Cuba,China and Venezuela)

when you can have healthcare (Cuba) or exporting economy based on destroying its people and environment (China)

meditraitor

nesf wrote: »

*waits patiently for Chavez fans to find a way to support this*

Waits patiently for the anti chavez crew to start another strawman thread.

Not a shred of truth in this one