We havent been contacted by anyone

wylo

Hi, I hope you dont mind this conversation in this forum as I thought it was most suited. Mods feel free to move it if you wish.

I always notice that people into astronomy and space love to remind/or be reminded that we are a just an insignificant dot amongst the vastness of the Universe. I have always enjoyed that concept too. But while this is true physically, size wise, I am starting to wonder, in terms of intelligence and advancements are we as humans perhaps alot more important or even the most important creation in the universe.

My reasoning behind this is that stars and galaxies were forming approx 14 billion years ago. It seems that our earliest life forms date back to about 3.8 billion years ago. Now just say, hypothetically, this was happening millions of times over all over the universe at the same time. Now lets also add that this could have started happening millions of times over all over the Universe up to lets say 7 or 8 billion years BEFORE that too. You are now left with thrillions of opportunities of life that would have started lets say for arguments sake 9 billion years ago.
It leaves me wondering why have we never been contacted. We know as humans that if we discovered aliens, either intelligent or non intelligent we would contacted them.
Another thing to note is that humans are only one of the millions of species on this planet, there is not one other life form on this planet that has equivalent intelligence. Almost as if we as humans are another fluke amongst the fluke that is life on Earth.
It leaves me thinking one of four things.

1. There is no other life anywhere else in the universe, and my presumption that some form of life was happening all over the universe
is just wrong.

2: We are a fluke, there may me millions or billions of lifeforms around the universe but we are the most advanced.

3. There may be other species well aware of our existance that are just watching on, but we just dont know it, the equivalent of the way ants or bugs would be to humans, they are completely unaware we even exist. However surely, one would have attempted to make some sort of contact.

4. There may be millions of other 'human' like intelligent creatures in the universe but we have all reached the limits of our capabilities in technology and none of us will ever contact each other. Almost as if deep space wasnt 'meant' to be travelled through, like the laws of physics never have and never will allow it.
And thus we will never meet another life form as intelligent as us, even if they do exist.


What do you think? I know my figures are very thrown together, and there's alot of presumptions made there, but id be interested to hear your opinions.

Kidchameleon

Interesting OP,

Well lets say that for arguments sake there is similarly advanced life orbiting the next closest star to ours (alpha centauri) how would we get a message to them? Some kind of Morse code maybe? It would take four years for each flash to get to them! My point is that I believe even if there were intelligent life near by it would be a logistical nightmare to even contemplate communicating with them! I believe the universe is just too dam big for there not to be life out there, big enough to support billions if not trillions of sentient life...

Regards

FunnyStuff

How would they know we are here? If you consider how long we as a species have been capable of transmitting signals into space for other civilisations to find, then you're talking at most about 100 years, probably less. Thats 100 lights years in all directions, which when you consider our galaxy is approx. 100,000 lights years across, means we've barely even scratched the surface. But hopefully, someday.....

Myrddin

Similar debate here - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055788557

Simple answer, the universe is BIG, really really big. 100,000 years to send a radio message from one side of our galaxy to the other, and another 100,000 years to return a message. ANd thats just our own galaaxy, one of a hundred billion! We only have radio capabilities for the last 150 years or so....why would anyone be so naive to think we would be talking to ET after this short amount of time?

There are very very few things in nature which are unique/one off's, just because we cant find any life, certainly doesnt mean there isnt/wasnt any.

The Hill Billy

wylo wrote: »

It leaves me wondering why have we never been contacted.

Maybe "they" are bombarding us with signals advertising their presence & we just haven't been able to pick or interpret those signals.

Sykk

There is also a good chance that there are signals sent thousands of years ago and they just haven't reached us yet. It's so mind boggling to wonder what is going on. I'm certain some day we'll recieve alien radiowaves or some form of communication.

You know, unless we're all wiped off the face of the earth by nuclear war :rolleyes:

I would love to hear of an intelligent alien lifeform contacting us in my lifetime.

-Nigel

mike65

We may have been contacted already but as mentioned didn't realise it or it happened in the era before radio wave technology and the sender/s got bored, found someone else or died out. We may have missed our chance.

ynotdu

The odds against there NOT being at least as advanced life-forms as ours in our 'known Universe' are actually lower than the odds that their is,just by doing the math(s):eek::)

The recently launched WISE telescope is liable to shed much more Light on this(albeit in wide spectrum light)

It is also thought WISE will find that near Earth Asteroids may turn out to be much larger than they appear to be on Hubble or Earth telescopes.

also many believe that Alpha centuri will be discovered NOT to be our nearest star as it is expected/hoped brown dwarfs may be discovered even nearer.

It is 30 years since a simulor 'mapping' of the sky has been done and NASA have not got a clue what might be discovered this time round with the new hardware and software now available?

lalee17

I think there's lots of life, but we are possibly one of the most intelligent. I was watching some documentary about this before, and there were theories of extraterrestrial life resembling things like jellyfish, that live floating around on a gas giant. It seems possible.

wylo

Some of the replies seem to be coming to the conclusion that its up to us to find life, or at least that the best technology out there is the same as ours. Doesnt that not kind of further conclude my thinking that we are more important than we give ourselves credit for. My point is that with the trillions of chances of life that would have gone on billions of years before us, we have not received ANY indication of any sort that someone has contacted us. Nothing physical was left for us , no radio contact, no (proven) visits.

Again this leaves me thinking either there are millions of very very intelligent species out there but none will ever reach us , the speed of light is the fastest form of communication there will ever be and that there is NO way we will ever physically travel through deep space ourselves, or that although there may be life out there, humans are the top of the table regarding technology, intelligence and discovery, and that it will be up to us to do all the exploring and find life.

Lalee ,

I think there's lots of life, but we are possibly one of the most intelligent. I was watching some documentary about this before, and there were theories of extraterrestrial life resembling things like jellyfish,

I agree with you on that one I think.

mike65,

We may have been contacted already but as mentioned didn't realise it or it happened in the era before radio wave technology and the sender/s got bored, found someone else or died out. We may have missed our chance.

That may be true, but that still makes me feel that it will never be easy for anyone to contact anyone else and thus it is going to be up to humans. It also concludes that radio technology is the best there ever will be, and also howcome we have had nothing physically left for us that spelt out the fact that there are aliens.

Hill billy,

Maybe "they" are bombarding us with signals advertising their presence & we just haven't been able to pick or interpret those signals.

I was thinking that also , but again it leaves me thinking surely someone out there knows we are not receiving their signals and would have also figured out how to get through to us.

I know this kind of kills off alot of my old dreamy sci fi-esque thoughts of there being hundreds of futuristic deep space traveling species out there that we will someday contact.

But to me its logic, ynotdu, you talk about odds and maths, thats what Im basing my whole thinking on. Im attempting to predict the future based on the passed, in the assumption that at least one of the millions of species before us 'should' have even more advanced technologies than us and 'should' have contacted us, either physically by a visit or through some even more advanced form of communication.

gpjordanf1

The reason they haven't contacted us is that we are the ASBO race in the universe, an emabrrassment that is better left alone and not encouraged to leave the planet.

They way we treat our fellow human beings, animals, environment, planet and basically anything we come across, we contaminate, abuse, disrespect, pollute and any other negative you feel like putting in there.

We are being monitored and contained, thats the best they can do for us at the moment. We are not ready to be involved in the galaxy / Universe.

Now the truth hurts, doesn't it!

wylo

I doubt it, given the fact that alot of other animals treat each other the same way on Earth I can only presume that we are probably no different to how aliens might themselves.

rccaulfield

Whats concerning is the direction life took when it exploded onto land after the cambrian explosion! We got the evolution of massive animals(dinosaurs) that made no tools and would not seek to understand and question their environment! This went on for hundreds of millions of year! Now think about that for a minute. Life evolved and this is the direction it took!
It took a catacylismic event 65million years ago to wipe out all the large-medium beings on earth. Then small little underground mammals found an environment to thrive in and we know the rest!
So here it is. Intelligence is not in my opinion an inevitability where life develops on distant worlds- it is i would say less likely then we think!




On a sidenote, for a civilisation to reach us at exactly the sametime as we are capable of receiving them and not say during the era when microbial life were the only life on the planet( is it 3.5 billion years or more?) is almost impossible odds.


Would love to meet them tho!

ntlbell

Depening on how far away the "thing" that could possibly make contact is looking at us now maybe they just see a little ball of ice?

we don't know how they see the state of the earth as they look at depending the time of the state of the earth they see.

Plug

Could it be possible for 'planet X' to be on the other side of the sun with the same orbit speed as us? Medieval aliens, no radio:pac:

wylo

rccaulfield wrote: »

Whats concerning is the direction life took when it exploded onto land after the cambrian explosion! We got the evolution of massive animals(dinosaurs) that made no tools and would not seek to understand and question their environment! This went on for hundreds of millions of year! Now think about that for a minute. Life evolved and this is the direction it took!
It took a catacylismic event 65million years ago to wipe out all the large-medium beings on earth. Then small little underground mammals found an environment to thrive in and we know the rest!
So here it is. Intelligence is not in my opinion an inevitability where life develops on distant worlds- it is i would say less likely then we think!




On a sidenote, for a civilisation to reach us at exactly the sametime as we are capable of receiving them and not say during the era when microbial life were the only life on the planet( is it 3.5 billion years or more?) is almost impossible odds.


Would love to meet them tho!

I agree with all of this.
Regarding your first point. I have read that more than 97% of all species that have ever existed on Earth are extinct, so it makes me think that even on Earth we are a very very lucky rare occurrence. And combine this with the fact that only certain types of humans seemed interested in developing technology makes me feel were even more rare in the universe regarding technology.(alot of cultures , while very intelligent and knowledgeable did not seem to express the same interest in pushing forward with technology).

Nehaxak

Lets say we discover life on another planet in the future and to us at least, that life would seem below or beneath us intelligence wise and/or technologically.

What would we do ? Would we just land (assuming we have advanced enough ourselves to allow space travel to whatever distant planet that life exists on) and maybe grab a few specimens to examine ? Or maybe just monitor that life from a distance to try and understand them before we land ?
Or would we just land and say "Hi we're here, take us to your leader" - while they stand around looking at us bemused.

What if they had their own means of communication, completely different to our own, one which we couldn't fathom to understand, how would we communicate with them in the first place ?

If we did discover intelligent life on another planet and had the means to communicate with them, would we ? Would it be safe to do so ? What if their beings were much more advanced and had weapons so much more powerfull than our own, would we take a risk of announcing ourselves and possibly opening up Earth to the risk of invasion or destruction ? How would we know they were friendly and would remain to be so ? Going on our own human nature, you wouldn't trust that to be the case.

It would seem implausible that if the theory of evolution were to be fact, that it would not also apply elsewhere in the universe and given the size and age of the universe that we presently are aware of anyway, that evolution has not happened in vast amounts elsewhere.

If you even take the idea of terraforming another hospitable planet and in the future maybe even introducing humans to that planet. That all seems plausible, just not entirely possible at the moment, but maybe in the future - but who is to say that the Earth was not terraformed by another "alien" species and that the human race itself were not introduced to this planet as we might do ourselves in the future as (or if) we advance enough that the possibility to do so exists.

If we did do that (terraform and introduce humans to another planet) and lets say a thousand years has passed, governments and people change on our own planet Earth, wars happen and so forth.
After a couple hundred more years we get ourselves together again, peace and whatnot, decide to revisit that planet our ancestors terraformed and introduced human life too so long ago - if we then land on that planet, are or would we be considered Gods in some way ?
Have the human beings there that decended from us, invented religions to worship us ? Would all seem a bit silly for them to do so but lets say that they do, or lets say they're worshipping golden cows and sacrificing virgins or whatever, do we grab one of them at some stage and say "now listen here Moses old chap, we're going to let you know this set of rules you should tell your people down there"... O.o

For me I just cannot get away from the idea that Earth itself was a terraformed planet and the humans were placed here in the first place in some form or another, maybe genetically engineered humans, different races to cope with different climates etc., maybe. Possibly some weird experimentation in genetics at the time they were placed here. Some races survived, some thrived, mixed and created other races etc., so we have what exists now, the human race as a whole in all it's various forms.

The idea of contact with another intelligent life form I would feel is just a basic human desire to get answers to the age old question on if we are alone in the universe or not. If we could prove beyond any doubt whatsoever that we did evolve as per the theory of evolution and the missing link(s) between us and apes can be found, then so be it, I shall accept that if scientific evidence proves it to be the case. Until then however I am of the belief the human races(s) were placed on this planet in the first instance, by other more intelligent lifeforms.

Where they were from, if they still monitor us, indeed if they still exists themselves as a species and if we will ever find evidence of their existence elsewhere, who knows

I think if we spent more time as a human race figuring out where we came from, how we came to be here, if it was evolution and where the missing links are if so. It would go a long way to helping us then advance and knowing what we had ahead of us.
If it were proved 100% that we evolved from apes or whatever, then it would hopefully give us more motivation to advance our human race to expand outside of our own planet and create life elsewhere.
If it were proved that we did not evolve from apes or whatever and that indeed we were "created" then still it would place more emphasis on expanding the human race outside of our own planet as we could ourselves finally grasp the idea that we can create, and populate, other planets with life from our own as it is and was possible to do so on our own planet Earth by whomever it was that did so, back then, whenever

I don't think the human race on this planet is deserving enough to be contacted by more intelligent life elsewhere than our own until we find out for sure how, why and where we came from ourselves and have finally grasped the idea, ability and technological advances necessary to expand onwards without hinderance from any religions or otherwise.
If we've done that much, then at least we'd be more welcoming and accepting of other maybe more advanced "extra terrestrial" lifeforms than our own, without being utterly shocked and flabberghasted if ever encountered or presented with it or intelligent contact from same.

Think about it for a moment, if you were "ET" monitoring our planet and communications from afar, or closeby, would you really want to announce yourselves publicly to the people on Earth ? Given the state of us as a whole compared to where we could or should be had we stopped being complete idiots hung up on some many stupid things, hatred, wars, stupid religion, greed, inherent violence toward others and many more rediculous meanderings.

Nehaxak

Went on for a bit there in that last post, sorry about the length :eek:

Hauk

I think the notion that we are a one in n fluke is offset by the fact that there are *billions* nay more, different star systems in our own galaxy. Now multiply that by the *billions* of galaxies in the universe, and I'm fairly sure there is some one posting on another boards.ie somewhere :P

Personally, I also like to think that somewhere out there, there is another tiny green and blue dot, with other people pondering the same questions as us.

It's humbling.

weisses

This kinda discussion is what you get when you go to see Avatar

Beeker

This is a topic I have long thought and read about and find fasinating. I believe the universe is brimming over with life. Where ever life can exist, it will in the universe. However this life will predominantly be non intelligent, small bacterial type life. Larger life forms will also exist but how many will be Intelligent, I don't know. Whales,Apes and many other terrestrial species have intelligence but only we, Humans have a "High" intelligence and this bothers me.
Why is it that with all the species that have existed on the Earth over the last 4 billion years are we are the first to reach a level of intelligence that alows us to not only think about our place but start to understand our place in the universe?
Life may be easy to start and intelligence inevitable through evolution, but high intelligence may be rare or even a fluke.
I hope not or the heavens may remain quite for a long time to come.

PS... just noticed rccaulfield post which make much the same point.

rccaulfield

wylo wrote: »

I agree with all of this.
Regarding your first point. I have read that more than 97% of all species that have ever existed on Earth are extinct, so it makes me think that even on Earth we are a very very lucky rare occurrence. And combine this with the fact that only certain types of humans seemed interested in developing technology makes me feel were even more rare in the universe regarding technology.(alot of cultures , while very intelligent and knowledgeable did not seem to express the same interest in pushing forward with technology).

Dont get caught up in that 97% figure! Don't forget all the species alive today evolved from(according to zoologists etc) an earlier species classified as different from the species they are today. Eg the fossil 'Lucy' is seen as an extinct species and separate to us homo sapiens but lucys species did not go extinct they're still here today- they're us!;)

ynotdu

Nehaxak wrote: »

Went on for a bit there in that last post, sorry about the length :eek:

Nexhaxak dont be sorry.this thread is full of thought provoking stuff!
Lets face it any opinion is valid in the absence of sure fire facts!
I would not use the thank You button for that reason:).

We wonder about are We the 'most intelligent' in our known Universe etc,
We wonder about our various cultures and diffrience's.
We wonder if Earth has been 'seeded' by alien life.

I wonder may our planet have been 'seeded' by more than one form of 'alien' life? which could help to explain why Planet Earth is always at war either physicly or intellectualy.

Bit of trivia,but from someone i think We all respect:David Athenb on his 80th birthday said "their are three times the population alive on Earth now as there was when I was born",I found that mindblowing!

in our lifetimes we will proably just about be able to survive that on Earth,So We better find other Planets suitable for us or We are going to end up 'Swimming' with the Dinasours!:eek:

Amadeus.

I have been doing my research and apparently we have been visited and still are visited by alien life for quite some time. Teh technology we have now eg. integrated circuits, fibre optics etc were reverse engineered from crashed ufos back in teh 50s and 60s. Teh appollo missions' astonauts reported ufo activity in outer space and on the moon. Buzz Aldrin, Neil Armstrong and Edgar Mitchell to name a few have said this. Check out teh links below (I found most of these reports etc on youtube)


http://www.disclosureproject.org/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjn10Of2hPs&feature=related

Hauk

Amadeus. wrote: »

(I found most of these reports etc on youtube

You don't have a clue.

Epic fail.

Amadeus.

And thats it? Well said.....

Hauk

Amadeus. wrote: »

And thats it? Well said.....

Thank you.

Amadeus.

Now if I can post another link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_lzEzIGGEA&feature=PlayList&p=92977A34EE0E85FC&index=0 for whoever is interested and I would appreciate no more rude comments like teh last one from Hauk thank you very much.

Plug

Amadeus. wrote: »

Now if I can post another link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_lzEzIGGEA&feature=PlayList&p=92977A34EE0E85FC&index=0 for whoever is interested and I would appreciate no more rude comments like teh last one from Hauk thank you very much.

THE not teh

Hauk

I don't have time for tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists that seek to degrade the excellent work done by the worlds scientific community thank you very much.

Also, can I point out that you have only just registered and all your posts have been in this thread. I call troll.

Amadeus.

Hauk wrote: »

I don't have time for tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists that seek to degrade the excellent work done by the worlds scientific community thank you very much.

Also, can I point out that you have only just registered and all your posts have been in this thread. I call troll.

I am not taking kindly to your insulting comments, especially troll. I must ask you to refrain from such behaviour. This is an open forum for civilised conjecture and debate.
Please do not lower the tone. I am new to this forum but I have the same rights as any to put forth my ideas and findings(which come from teh scientific community), irrespective of how many posts that I have submitted so far.
If you wish to engage in debate with myself, maybe it would be more appropriate to add some of your own findings which debunk mine?

Hauk

Amadeus. wrote: »

I am not taking kindly to your insulting comments, especially troll.

Ok.

I must ask you to refrain from such behaviour.

...

This is an open forum for civilised conjecture and debate.

This is a forum about Astronomy and Space.

Please do not lower the tone.

You lowered the tone to the n'th degree when you disregarded the brilliant scientific minds of over 600 years of research and experimentation.

I am new to this forum but I have the same rights as any to put forth my ideas and findings(which come from teh scientific community), irrespective of how many posts that I have submitted so far.

Please stop purposely spelling 'the' wrong.

If you wish to engage in debate with myself, maybe it would be more appropriate to add some of your own findings which debunk mine?

I don't need to. Maybe you would feel more at home here: http://boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

ynotdu

Hauk wrote: »

I don't have time for tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists that seek to degrade the excellent work done by the worlds scientific community thank you very much.

Also, can I point out that you have only just registered and all your posts have been in this thread. I call troll.

Hi.ya Hauk:)
I'm sure You have heard the expression "a journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step"

Lets try to be more tolerant without accusing each other of 'Trolling'?
Of course Youtube video,s could be used for trolling,of course somebody using them in just 3 posts could be a Re-reg acting the maggot,eventually trollers are 'found out'

there is also the possibility that the poster could be only 13yo{the entry age for boards)and on a learning curve,so if they have just joined boards and before that were only getting the many CT,s about Space/spaceflight on the net would be confused.

It is not Your post,this thread or the Space/Astonomy forum i mean to be disrespectful to.
it is the tiny amount of people on boards.ie that have an interest in S/A and if a genuinly 'newbie' gets attacked within three posts they could lose interest forever.

sincere regards!

Hauk

ynotdu wrote: »

Hi.ya Hauk:)
I'm sure You have heard the expression "a journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step"

Lets try to be more tolerant without accusing each other of 'Trolling'?
Of course Youtube video,s could be used for trolling,of course somebody using them in just 3 posts could be a Re-reg acting the maggot,eventually trollers are 'found out'

there is also the possibility that the poster could be only 13yo{the entry age for boards)and on a learning curve,so if they have just joined boards and before that were only getting the many CT,s about Space/spaceflight on the net would be confused.

It is not Your post,this thread or the Space/Astonomy forum i mean to be disrespectful to.
it is the tiny amount of people on boards.ie that have an interest in S/A and if a genuinly 'newbie' gets attacked within three posts they could lose interest forever.

sincere regards!

Ah yeah. I've no problem with debate. I probably shouldn't have called him a troll but it certainly sounds like it.

I applaud anyone who seeks to take an active interest in space science, and urge all people to indulge in the science, but to say that integrated circuits and fibre optic cables were reverse engineered from UFO's in the 60's is genuinely laughable.

Also, Amadeus, if you want to learn about space science and engineering, I can recommend a number of areas to begin.

Pittens

100,000 years to send a radio message from one side of our galaxy to the other, and another 100,000 years to return a message. ANd thats just our own galaaxy, one of a hundred billion! We only have radio capabilities for the last 150 years or so....why would anyone be so naive to think we would be talking to ET after this short amount of time?

so why isnt there a civilization in the Galaxy more than 100,000 years old? surely the odds which predict that there is likely to be life in the Galazy would also predict that.

As for what they use to communicate - similarly advanced civilisation would probably be using some kind of electromagnetic radiation - is there a suspicion that they would have found some way at communicating at the speed of light different to the ways we do ( electromagnetic and optical etc.?) . Is it subspace?

If not why is there not more chatter. In fact if the universe was definitely likely to produce intelligent life on Earth type planets, some of those planets must be at the very minimum 1 million years ahead of us. See the problem? There should be a million light-year sphere of electromagnetic radiation around planets.


In fact the problem is defined by evolutionists who attack the idea that man was, or is, the pinicle or even an obvious product, of evolution on this planet. Run the evolutionary tape again and you wont come up with us - in fact we are here because the Dinosaurs gor wiped out in a cosmic fluke. Even the dinosaurs were lucky that iinvertebrate ancestors survived in the sea, and everybody depends on a fluke that life started in the first place. It may be that 4 billion years is not enough on most "earth type" planets.

So the odds are not as common as people say - the assumptions that all planets potentially favourable to life produce life may be fundamentally flawed.

Amadeus.

Pittens wrote: »

so why isnt there a civilization in the Galaxy more than 100,000 years old? surely the odds which predict that there is likely to be life in the Galazy would also predict that.

As for what they use to communicate - similarly advanced civilisation would probably be using some kind of electromagnetic radiation - is there a suspicion that they would have found some way at communicating at the speed of light different to the ways we do ( electromagnetic and optical etc.?) . Is it subspace?

If not why is there not more chatter. In fact if the universe was definitely likely to produce intelligent life on Earth type planets, some of those planets must be at the very minimum 1 million years ahead of us. See the problem? There should be a million light-year sphere of electromagnetic radiation around planets.



In fact the problem is defined by evolutionists who attack the idea that man was, or is, the pinicle or even an obvious product, of evolution on this planet. Run the evolutionary tape again and you wont come up with us - in fact we are here because the Dinosaurs gor wiped out in a cosmic fluke. Even the dinosaurs were lucky that iinvertebrate ancestors survived in the sea, and everybody depends on a fluke that life started in the first place. It may be that 4 billion years is not enough on most "earth type" planets.

So the odds are not as common as people say - the assumptions that all planets potentially favourable to life produce life may be fundamentally flawed.

Good post, I am still trying to get my head around it as I only started reading up about this a week ago.
What got my interest was that why were ex nasa, top millitary and goverment officials talking about ufo/ET experiences etc.(which confuses me)
I can't prove the existence/non existence of ET life but so far in my research I have not been convinced either way form the scientific/non scientific community.

The research engineering claim was made by a top usa army/cia official who died in 1998. When I find the link again, I will duly post later.

Amadeus.

This is the guy who made teh claims (videos/interviews on youtube, which I have watched)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_J._Corso

Pittens

Amadeus, this thread assumes that we havent been contacted by anybody. It asks why?

You are not arguing to the thread title. If you believe that the Aliens are already here this is not the thread for you, and possibly not the right forum ( I assume but I am new).

calchas

Pittens

I think you are correct. This is a sub group of 'Science'. Amadeus provides no theory and no evidence and therefore no science.

Clear skies
Calchas

Amadeus.

Pittens wrote: »

Amadeus, this thread assumes that we havent been contacted by anybody. It asks why?

You are not arguing to the thread title. If you believe that the Aliens are already here this is not the thread for you, and possibly not the right forum ( I assume but I am new).

Ok I got the wrong end of teh stick there (maybe) I believe there has been contact made (not to me directly). Teh assumption of no contact made would be based on a cover up as in the links I posted earlier.
My thoughts are that the scientific community has not proven and won't prove in our lifetime that there is definitely not Alien life out there.
I also thought that the Appollo astronauts were a respectable part of teh then "scientific" community and they have said that they have seen them (UFO craft) so that could be construed as "contact".
Whether all teh witnesses/astronauts are crackpots, I dont know but it just made me confused when I researched teh issue.

Redshift

Ok settle down everyone.
I don't want to have to close this thread!

Can I also remind everyone of the forum charter

5. Please do not post anything related to conspiracy theory in the forum, there is a dedicated forum for this on boards, a forum ban will be issued for non compliance.

Keep it scientific and on topic please!!!

FunnyStuff

Pittens wrote: »

so why isnt there a civilization in the Galaxy more than 100,000 years old? surely the odds which predict that there is likely to be life in the Galazy would also predict that.

.

Its possible that there is civilisations older than 100,000 years, who like us, are lying under their stars wondering the same thing as us. In a civilisation so advanced, using technology so far beyond even our thinking, is it possible their attemps to contact outside civilisations as just passing us by, as we do not have the technology or the know how to interpret or spot their signals right under our noses. I for one surely hope there is other life forms out there, and dream that in my lifetime, we will make contact with them, inspiring the people on this planet to believe that not only are we not alone, but giving people the belief and purpose to make our planet and the people on it the best that we can be.

ynotdu

also when a genuine newbie posts in an incorrect forum just a polite link to the correct forum could be of great help to them,it is a hugh site and navigating it as a new poster can be intimidating.

Finding the forums that suit is very rewarding!:)

Amadeus.

Redshift wrote: »

Ok settle down everyone.
I don't want to have to close this thread!

Can I also remind everyone of the forum charter


Keep it scientific and on topic please!!!

I apologise, it was not my intention to disrupt

Pittens

Its possible that there is civilisations older than 100,000 years, who like us, are lying under their stars wondering the same thing as us. In a civilisation so advanced, using technology so far beyond even our thinking, is it possible their attemps to contact outside civilisations as just passing us by, as we do not have the technology or the know how to interpret or spot their signals right under our noses.

I wonder what they will be using if not some kind of electomagnetic radiation to talk to each other. What else? Faster than light communication is a myth.....

I also have a problem with the 100,000 year older than us would be more advanced. That too assumes a cultural evolution which is not guaranteed. China was older than Britain when the Royal Academy was set up - some cultures stagnate.

not that I think we even proved that some thing like human life is probable on most earth type planets.

Amadeus.

May I just put a few questions out there. Does everybody in teh Astronomy & Space community/forum believe that there was no contact ever made and teh thousands of witness reports/radar/video evidence made by people in high authority are to be regarded as fantasy?
I don't know what to believe myself as I have no background in astronomy/space study.
Is it bad form to believe in it and is it something to be ridiculed?
To be honest I would feel a bit embarassed to say in public that I believe in ET and 'contact' for fear of being laughed at.

EvilMonkey

Amadeus. wrote: »

My thoughts are that the scientific community has not proven and won't prove in our lifetime that there is definitely not Alien life out there.

I agree, because its impossible to prove so no scientist will ever a try.

On topic, how long have we been aware of the possibility of ET life and how long have wee been looking out for it (SETI etc...)?
How far away is the furthest signals from Earth?

I think their is a possibility of intelligent life out there but its unlikely we will ever make contact because of the distances and time scales involved.

Amadeus.

I read somewhere that seti discovered a distinct radio signal that had a pattern. Don't quote me on this, maybe someone form A/S forum could help me with details but I think it came form Saturn's Rings.

FunnyStuff

Pittens wrote: »

I wonder what they will be using if not some kind of electomagnetic radiation to talk to each other. What else? Faster than light communication is a myth.....

I also have a problem with the 100,000 year older than us would be more advanced. That too assumes a cultural evolution which is not guaranteed. China was older than Britain when the Royal Academy was set up - some cultures stagnate.

not that I think we even proved that some thing like human life is probable on most earth type planets.

True any civilisation older than 100,000 years, does not mean they are more advanced than us, and true with the reference to the Royal Academy, but in that instance we are still only talking in time frames bordering on the hundreds of years.

Buts lets assume that a civilisation along the same kind of lines as ours, over a course of 100,000 years, i would assume to be far more advanced than us. My issue with the electromagnetic radiation thing is we are only talking within the confines of our knowledge of the universe and laws of physics. I'm no professor or brainy scientist and wont claim to be, but if our civilisation was to continue evolving for another 90,000 years or so, i cant even imagine what advancements would be made and how we would be communicating.

Maybe you are right, and maybe we are alone in the universe, a unique anomaly residing on a small planet in the middle of nowhere. But if we are alone, it would be a pretty big waste of space.

Amadeus.

FunnyStuff wrote: »

True any civilisation older than 100,000 years, does not mean they are more advanced than us, and true with the reference to the Royal Academy, but in that instance we are still only talking in time frames bordering on the hundreds of years.

Buts lets assume that a civilisation along the same kind of lines as ours, over a course of 100,000 years, i would assume to be far more advanced than us. My issue with the electromagnetic radiation thing is we are only talking within the confines of our knowledge of the universe and laws of physics. I'm no professor or brainy scientist and wont claim to be, but if our civilisation was to continue evolving for another 90,000 years or so, i cant even imagine what advancements would be made and how we would be communicating.

Maybe you are right, and maybe we are alone in the universe, a unique anomaly residing on a small planet in the middle of nowhere. But if we are alone, it would be a pretty big waste of space.

Very well said. Edgar Mitchell who was teh 6th man to walk on teh moon, made a great speech in 2009. He said in teh late 1800's his grandparents were travelling in a covered wagon across teh plains of Virginia. His own father was around for teh first air flight of the Wright Brothers in 1911. He himself then travels to teh moon and walks on it in 1971.
He said if you were to tell his granparents that in less than 100 years into the future that their grandson would achieve lunar travel, they would have struggled to believe it.
If 3 generations of a family experienced such milestones in human endeavour, what can be achieved/believed by us in the 21st century?

Nehaxak

A question then, what we use to communicate is all related to matter and uses of same. What if other life forms elsewhere in the cosmos use antimatter, or related, to communicate rather than that which we are used too, which are matter based ?

We are only really beginning to barely touch upon anti-matter so it's hard to even think about how we could harness it or parts related to same for communications but still.

What about Neutrinos as another example, something which we know only a little about but could well have been harnessed for communications by other intelligent life in the universe.

What about something that as of yet we humans have not yet discovered but is abundant in the universe and could be used for communications purposes.

Or, what if the star(s) that give life to another planet in the universe provide different (or addtional) energies, matter, antimatter, something else... that are completely alien to us on Earth and not within our own solar system ? That other intelligent life could be sitting there wondering if they are alone in the universe, maybe have even been broadcasting their communications out to the cosmos and listening for same for ages. Yet we've all been broadcasting and listening for the wrong thing all along, because the other is broadcasting and listening to something that we, or they, have not yet discovered.