NUI: 1908 - 2010

El Siglo

Batt has just announced the dissolution of the National University of Ireland, just wondering what everyone thinks, was it a good or bad move? How will this affect us? etc...

Seifer

El Siglo wrote: »

Batt has just announced the dissolution of the National University of Ireland, just wondering what everyone thinks, was it a good or bad move? How will this affect us? etc...

I saw that on the RTE site earlier. Considering I have been in UCD coming up on 6 years and have no clue what they do, it can only be a good thing.
Also throw in the fact that the other universities in the country that aren't members seem to get along fine.

El Siglo

Yeh the sky hasn't fallen in just yet, what about the travelling studentships and awards etc... are they going to be given by the individual universities now? Curious as well, didn't the NUI award RCSI degrees and a few other colleges?

Jev/N

I thought I read the plan was to have one overall body replacing FETAC, HETAC and other bodies that award qualifications saving over €1m per year

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Luna192

What exactly did this board for NUIs do...?

Seifer

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

From the NUI site:

'National University of Ireland' currently comprises four Constituent Universities, five Recognised Colleges and one College of a Constituent University

So your statement seems inaccurate at best.

Plowman wrote: »

UCD doesn't have to worry as it's a large institution, but I wonder what the smaller ones like Maynooth, RCSI, etc will do? There must have been some benefit to being a member of the NUI.

Maynooth is smaller than UCD (like every other university in Ireland) but it is not small. As I said they will get along fine just like Trinity, UL and DCU have been.
Why must there have been a benefit? If the benefits out-weighed the costs then they wouldn't be abolishing it. Initially it probably served a purpose but it has been made obsolete.

Seifer

Luna192 wrote: »

What exactly did this board for NUIs do...?

http://www.nui.ie/about/structure.asp

NUI, National University of Ireland, is a federal university comprising the largest element of the Irish university system at the present time. The continuing mission for NUI in modern Ireland is to provide a supportive framework for its confederate institutions, to promote the objects of the University, thus contributing to educational, cultural, social and economic advancement.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

stop

NUI site still lists UCDs phone number under the 706 prefix, which changed to 716 about 8 years ago.

So they really don't seem on their game...

El Siglo

There's going to be some serious backlash now according to the Irish Times.

Anger mounts over abolition of NUI

SEÁN FLYNN Education Editor

OPPOSITION TO the abolition of the National University of Ireland (NUI), which has more than 250,000 graduates in Ireland and throughout the world, increased yesterday.

Worried students also contacted the body seeking reassurance about their degrees or CAO choices in the nine NUI constituent colleges.

Minister for Education Batt O’Keeffe will meet the four presidents of NUI universities next week. But a reversal of the decision appears unlikely.

In a statement yesterday, the NUI said the Minister’s announcement “coming as abruptly as it did, has caused understandable anxiety among students and graduates”.

Students who have applied for courses at NUI constituent colleges have been contacting the body seeking reassurance about the quality of their degrees. At this early stage, there is no suggestion that the constituent colleges which include NUI Galway, and NUI Maynooth will change their names. But there is considerable anger in Galway and Maynooth about the decision.

The degrees of the nine constituent colleges will still be degrees of the NUI – even though the body may not exist after about 2011.

The NUI senate expressed regret at the lack of consultation with Chancellor Dr Maurice Manning or with university presidents .

Concerns were also raised that the move will damage the 102-year-old NUI brand, which has strong international recognition.

The decision to abolish the NUI was strongly supported by senior Department of Education officials anxious to establish a united qualifications and quality assurance agency for higher education.

Yesterday, speakers at the NUI senate meeting pointed out that the organisation could have run in parallel with the new awards body In a statement the NUI said: “Had they been consulted, the Chancellor and Presidents would have emphasised that the abolition of the NUI is not necessary for the achievement of the quality assurance objectives that the Minister is pursuing or for the establishment of an amalgamated qualifications and quality assurance agency.”

Concerns have also been raised by former NUI chancellor Dr Garret FitzGerald that a new awards body could undermine the autonomy of the universities.

In an e-mail to the senate, Dr Manning said he had been informed by the Minister that the decision to abolish the NUI was not based on financial grounds but was part of the streamlining of the qualification process.

In his e-mail, Dr Manning suggested the move could still be reversed given the political instability. The proposed abolition is unlikely to be implemented before mid-2011 at the earliest.

A Bill to establish the new agency for higher education sectors is being drafted and legislation will be published in June. The Minister expects it to be passed by the end of the year.

The NUI has four constituent universities: NUI Galway, NUI Maynooth, UCD and UCC.

It also has five recognised colleges for which it makes awards: the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland; the National College of Art and Design; the Institute of Public Administration; Shannon College of Hotel Management; and Milltown Institute.

Michaelrsh

El Siglo wrote: »

Batt has just announced the dissolution of the National University of Ireland, just wondering what everyone thinks, was it a good or bad move? How will this affect us? etc...

I was just thinking about this actually. When the NUI system is dissolved, will all the universities who were under its system have to change their names? Like for instance UCC might change its name to University of Cork or UCG might change its name to University of Galway. There might be a slight complication with UCD though seen as there is already a university in Dublin that styles itself as 'University of Dublin'.

The reason I say this is because the term 'university college' is used in a number of countries to denote institutions that provide tertiary education but do not have full or independent university status. A 'university college' is often part of a larger university (i.e., the National University of Ireland). It might seem a bit odd therefore if UCD was to maintain the name 'University College Dublin' if it is no longer affiliated with the NUI.

Seifer

According to the article El Siglo quoted, NUIM and NUIG aren't considering changing their names at the moment so it's unlikely those colleges not even containing NUI will.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Pride Fighter

Here is a facebook group opposing its abolition.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=267513299390#/group.php?gid=267513299390&ref=nf

Michaelrsh

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

That other university, who's name we do not mention on this forum, is very greedy and has too many titles, it's full name (I believe) "T***ity College Dublin, The University of Dublin", where 'The University of Dublin' part refers to that college's postgraduate school. If UCD was to maintain the 'University College' part of its name that would suggest that it is a constituent college of a federation of colleges (NUI) which it won't in the future. An example of this is University College London which is a contituent college of the University of London. What might happen is that UCD might become a constituent college of the University of Dublin which might also contain T***ity College Dublin too. Therefore, in this hypothetical scenario, if you graduate from either university you will have a university of dublin accredited degree. But this is HIGHLY controversial as you say.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

El Siglo

Well considering the innovation alliance between UCD and TCD and probably for the first time in 150 years students from UCD are doing stuff in TCD and TCD students are coming to do stuff in UCD, I think it would be great if UCD went into the University of Dublin. If the NUI is gone, and we're pretty much carrying out the same research in both places, we might as well join up under the University of Dublin. They tried this twice according to the wikipedia article, but usually sectarianism on both sides prevented it. Well it's the 21st Century now I don't think we still pander to those ideas anymore. As regards the differences between UCD and TCD, well passing by the Newman building or the Arts Building in Trinity you wouldn't tell the difference. BESS birds are almost identical to Commerce, both places have a reputation for turning culchies into knobs and both colleges pride themselves on being "Ireland's Premier University".

Michaelrsh

El Siglo wrote: »

Well considering the innovation alliance between UCD and TCD and probably for the first time in 150 years students from UCD are doing stuff in TCD and TCD students are coming to do stuff in UCD, I think it would be great if UCD went into the University of Dublin. If the NUI is gone, and we're pretty much carrying out the same research in both places, we might as well join up under the University of Dublin. They tried this twice according to the wikipedia article, but usually sectarianism on both sides prevented it. Well it's the 21st Century now I don't think we still pander to those ideas anymore. As regards the differences between UCD and TCD, well passing by the Newman building or the Arts Building in Trinity you wouldn't tell the difference. BESS birds are almost identical to Commerce, both places have a reputation for turning culchies into knobs and both colleges pride themselves on being "Ireland's Premier University".

I hope it doesn't turn into a case of 'can't beat them, join them'. Brian Lenihan, according to that wikipedia article was for this idea, I wonder what his Fianna Fáil collegue Batt O'Keefe would think of an idea like that.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

Michaelrsh

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

You can bet however that T***ity students would be totally against it.

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ooops.

El Siglo

Michaelrsh wrote: »

You can bet however that T***ity students would be totally against it.

Well I'm in Trinity at the moment and I wouldn't be against it, although I did my undergrad in UCD so I'm a bit biased!;) I doubt they'd care, maybe the more conservative ones (e.g. Cantab from the TCD forum although he's banned now) but if they brought in things for the TCD students like the three years arts degree then I'd say they'd jump at it, who the fuck wants to study english litt for 4 years to end up unemployed anyway? Also, it wouldn't make any odds to them, it's not like UCD would be taking over Trinity, it would be just that on the degree parchments we're all in the same boat. It might mean however points might go up, but this is happening already. Wouldn't it be nice though, hundreds of years of bitterness and contempt swept away by being under the one umbrella. And with the Uni of Dub, no government would ever dream of dissolving an institution over 400 years old, so there's security there. I'd think this would be a win-win situation for all concerned. Trinity would have access to one of the best business schools in Europe, UCD would have access to some of the best pharmaceutical research etc... etc... etc... It's happening already, they've modularised in Trinity, there's new courses popping up etc... but with the NUI dissolving, it might mean a formal union between the two colleges could take place or be at least a realistic option.

Ooops.

Duly noted!:D

El Siglo

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The egos might be too much too handle alright!:D

Chewbacca.

Michaelrsh wrote: »

I'm mad keen on this course,(:pac:I'm a bit of a Trinner head, lyke) I'd say I'll be lucky to get in in the second round of offers, first round were like 480 last year!! (Saw that in the Irish Times a few days ago)

If I'd don't I'd wanna do Physics with Astonomy and Space Science in UCD:pac:

I think you have some explaining to do about your 'loyalty' to the beautiful UCD.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

El Siglo

Chewbacca. wrote: »

I think you have some explaining to do about your 'loyalty' to the beautiful UCD.

In his defence:
"...ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, I have one final thing I want you to consider. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk. But Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now think about it; that does not make sense!
Why would a Wookiee, an eight-foot tall Wookiee, want to live on Endor, with a bunch of two-foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense! But more important, you have to ask yourself: What does this have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense! Look at me. I'm a lawyer defending a major record company, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca! Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense! None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in that jury room deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed jury, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must acquit! The defense rests."

El Siglo

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Yeh, but after three years of arts you'd get pretty sick of it, I did anyway.:D

Michaelrsh

Chewbacca. wrote: »

I think you have some explaining to do about your 'loyalty' to the beautiful UCD.

Dear Chewbacca,

I wrote that comment around six months ago. I'd love to know where you got it, I see you've done your research; hours of fine combing the trinity forum I suspect. You must realise however that six months is a long time. Enough time for peoples opinions to change. I realise the error in my ways by posting that comment in the first place. I wasn't even in college at that stage and my loyalty to either ucd or trinity had not been asserted.

Yours Sincerely,

Michaelrsh.

P.S., Perhaps you'd like to explain why you were searching boards for incriminating evidence.

bnt

The Indo has a piece in which their reporter recommends the merger of UCD and TCD: here. This apparently came out of a speech, last Friday, by Peter Sutherland, the Chairman of Goldman Sachs.

Peter Sutherland, the chairman of Goldman Sachs who was speaking in Dublin last Friday, said Ireland can't afford seven universities if it hopes to have any world-class institutions. He said: "Surely seven is too many if we're talking about comprehensive world-class research universities with undergraduate education, postgraduate training and research. Personally I can't see how Ireland can afford this." Mr Sutherland also said that Trinity and UCD should combine to create a world-class institution. He added: "We would have a top-20 or even a top-10 player to compete in the big leagues and, if so, wouldn't that be the best thing for Ireland?"

El Siglo

Sutherland makes a good point. The problem with this however is that it will seriously piss off the other colleges, particularly; DCU, NUIM and DIT with maybe UCC, NUIG and UL joining in. If a merger was done, Jesus that would be something to be proud of. I would rather have my degree awarded by the Uni of Dub than some new state quango with its cheap, tacky logo on my parchment.;)

muffinman

bnt wrote: »

The Indo has a piece in which their reporter recommends the merger of UCD and TCD: here. This apparently came out of a speech, last Friday, by Peter Sutherland, the Chairman of Goldman Sachs.

Is that the same Peter Sutherland funding the new law school?

stop

muffinman wrote: »

Is that the same Peter Sutherland funding the new law school?

The very one!

Chewbacca.

Dear angry Michaelrsh

P.S., Perhaps you'd like to explain why you were searching boards for incriminating evidence

I wasn't searching for evidence at all, I was deciding what to put on my CAO and was reading TCD forum, then I checked out UCD's forum and it appeared you seemed like a harvey two-face.

Kind Regards
Chewbacca

Michaelrsh

El Siglo wrote: »

Sutherland makes a good point. The problem with this however is that it will seriously piss off the other colleges, particularly; DCU, NUIM and DIT with maybe UCC, NUIG and UL joining in. If a merger was done, Jesus that would be something to be proud of. I would rather have my degree awarded by the Uni of Dub than some new state quango with its cheap, tacky logo on my parchment.;)

Why would UCC, NUIG or UL join this 'University of Dublin' when they're not even in Dublin. Granted Maynooth might join as it's only a few km outside Dublin.

El Siglo

Michaelrsh wrote: »

Why would UCC, NUIG or UL join this 'University of Dublin' when they're not even in Dublin. Granted Maynooth might join as it's only a few km outside Dublin.

Yeh but they might feel left out in the cold because they voiced their opposition to the innovation merger last March. However, if UCD and TCD did join up for the purposes of having their degrees awarded by the University of Dublin then I doubt the others would care.

Plowman

This post has been deleted.

El Siglo

Plowman wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

No it's actually useful believe it or now. I'm doing environmental science at the moment in TCD. I was talking to one of the lecturers about doing certain research, which would involve me going out to Belfield to work with another lecturer there. Now this wouldn't have been possible before or it would have entailed a lot bureaucratic rubbish. With the research merger, it makes things a little easier.

KevinVonSpiel

If this speak regarding reducing the no. of Universities is just goings on re' fusing TCD, UCD, DCU &, perhaps, DIT, then doubtless there are benefits... but it seems a little odd if it's about joining up or closing down any of Galway (guess it's UCG (again) now), Maynooth (what was it before? St. Patrick's?) &/or Limerick.

Regrouping, post degrouping? Smacks of Health-board/HSE ballsing around.

I think it's invading forces that like to close down the Universities, not those who are pro the whole Knowledge Economy 'thing'.

All that said, I did read recently about how a lot of the Quaker super-businesses of the past were developed partly as a consequence of University doorways not being open for them... perhaps that's what Peter is trying for.

Can anyone tell me if Peter Sutherland ever actually started up a business from scratch?