Irish FTA DTT logo - "Saorview"

The Cush

Following on from the publication of the Nordig specification for Irish DTT receivers about this time last year RTÉNL have announced that FTA DTT will be called “Saorview” and Swedens Teracom will carry out receiver compliance testing.

Teracom is the Swedish state owned terrestrial network operator and owner of Boxer DTT. They also carry out compliance testing for Swedish, Norwegian and Danish DTT operators.

RTÉ Free-to-Air DTT Receiver

NorDig Unified ver 2.0. equipment requirements

Minimum Receiver Requirements

“Approved Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Receivers

RTÉ has appointed Teracom AB to conduct receiver compliance testing for Irish free-to-air (FTA) DTT receivers. Those receivers which pass the tests thereby meeting the Irish DTT specification will be eligible to be licensed to use RTÉ’s “Saorview” logo, which will confirm to consumers that the receiver is Irish FTA DTT compliant. RTÉNL will publish a full list of compliant DTT receivers on its web site.

Manufacturers/distributors wishing to use the Saorview logo should contact Teracom (irdtest@teracom.se) to arrange testing. When a receiver passes the tests, it will then be eligible to be licensed by RTÉ to carry the Saorview logo.”

http://www.rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

I see this name was suggested by Apogee back in Feb 2009.

Mayo Exile

Interesting. Seems like good news. Reading between the lines here, could one say the launch of the PSB mux is now being considered/planned, regardless of the outcome of the negotiations over the fate of the commercial muxes and that Irish DTT will go ahead, based (as planned) on the DVB-T/MPEG4 standard regardless of DVB-T2 developments in the UK?

icdg

"Saorview"? Thought it was a bad joke until I saw it on the RTÉ NL website...

Why not Freeview (or Freeview Ireland to distingish from the UK service)?

Saorview is ugly, anyone who has not been to school in Ireland won't know what "saor" means (which will hamper switch over among immigrant communities). If people think "its good to have an Irish langauge part to the name", it will not please the Irish langauge lobby since they would only be satisfied with "Saorfeach" or such like.

Mike 1972

Agreed except for this bit

icdg wrote: »

which will hamper switch over among immigrant communities

Immigrant communities by and large have swithched over to digital a long time ago and consequently dont have much use for RTE

Bob_Harris

icdg wrote: »

Saorview is ugly, anyone who has not been to school in Ireland won't know what "saor" means (which will hamper switch over among immigrant communities). If people think "its good to have an Irish langauge part to the name", it will not please the Irish langauge lobby since they would only be satisfied with "Saorfeach" or such like.

I was schooled in Ireland and don't know what "saor" means.

Slegs got a good domain name with saortv, was it dumb luck or pure genius? I see all the "saorview" domains are snapped up.

I should create a saorview sub-domain on my site and move all content there, whilst also adding actual content :pac:

slegs

Bob_Harris wrote: »

I was schooled in Ireland and don't know what "saor" means.

Slegs got a good domain name with saortv, was it dumb luck or pure genius? I see all the "saorview" domains are snapped up.

I should create a saorview sub-domain on my site and move all content there, whilst also adding actual content :pac:

I would like to think genius but the probably the former

mjsmyth

icdg wrote: »

Why not Freeview (or Freeview Ireland to distingish from the UK service)?

I would have thought that they want to distance themselves from anything that says Freeview on it. As we all know, there are lots of tv's out there that have been sold and are still being sold with the Freeview logo on them.

Imagine the confusion if the service was called Freeview or Freeview Ireland. People would be calling Joe complaining that their TV had the Freeview logo on it, but was not compatible. RTENL would get slated for the confusion.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with having some Irish in the name of the service.

BowWow

I think this is good news. Looks like something is going to happen, at last, this year. Cant really see anything wrong with the name - what ever name it has would'nt please everyone.

Apogee

icdg wrote: »

"Saorview"? Thought it was a bad joke until I saw it on the RTÉ NL website...

Why not Freeview (or Freeview Ireland to distingish from the UK service)?

Saorview is ugly, anyone who has not been to school in Ireland won't know what "saor" means (which will hamper switch over among immigrant communities). If people think "its good to have an Irish langauge part to the name", it will not please the Irish langauge lobby since they would only be satisfied with "Saorfeach" or such like.

slegs

Bob_Harris wrote: »

I was schooled in Ireland and don't know what "saor" means.

Slegs got a good domain name with saortv, was it dumb luck or pure genius? I see all the "saorview" domains are snapped up.

I should create a saorview sub-domain on my site and move all content there, whilst also adding actual content :pac:

Nice site you have there Bob!

Rippy

As a blow- in Sassanach will have to ask my wife how it's pronounced.:D
A step forward though.

icdg

icdg wrote: »

"Saorview"? Thought it was a bad joke until I saw it on the RTÉ NL website...

Why not Freeview (or Freeview Ireland to distingish from the UK service)?

Saorview is ugly, anyone who has not been to school in Ireland won't know what "saor" means (which will hamper switch over among immigrant communities). If people think "its good to have an Irish langauge part to the name", it will not please the Irish langauge lobby since they would only be satisfied with "Saorfeach" or such like.

Saorview Free as a logo on the boxes would solve your issue with it.
It's simple and not so long or a mouthfull.
The two words could be incorporated into a nicely readable funky logo..
Still catchy and emphasises that the service is free without losing the catchyness.
It maintains the gaelic and irishness of the service whilst being easily identified as different to freeview-so no confusion with mpeg 2 freeview receivers.

STB

Interesting that Teracom are doing the lab tests isnt it.

Ah slegs took a good punt eh.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Interesting that Teracom are doing the lab tests isnt it.

I guess it could be expected when you consider RTÉ selected the Scandanavian NorDig terrestrial, cable and satellite IRD spec as its FTA receiver spec at a time when Boxer DTT was negotating with the BCI/RTÉ to run the pay DTT service, Boxer DTT was 50% owned by Teracom. At that time Teracom's published receiver spec (v2.0) included Ireland, the latest version (v2.1) its no longer there.

Teracom launched Sweden's FTA and pay DTT service in 1999 using Nordig spec receivers so they would have over 10 years expertise in compliance testing. As Sweden were the second European country to launch DTT there wouldn't have been many testing labs about at the time so they probably set up their own to suit their requirements. Teracom appear to be a one stop shop in that they are a state owned terrestrial transmission network company who operate the FTA and pay DTT service in Sweden, with their own compliance testing lab. The UK has DTG Testing.

When Boxer DTT withdrew it was probably practical for RTÉ to retain the Nordig spec receiver and Teracom for testing as there was no other DTT "champion" on the horizon and the work had already been done.

Rick_

Any idea of what the actual logo looks like yet, or have they even designed one?

I wonder what STB's they have planned for the service, who the manufacturers will be, what features they will have etc.

Considering they are MPEG 4 and the HD Ireland channel might make a comeback, it would be nice if their STB's contained a HDMI output and nice high-res HDMI On Screen Display. It's a shame when you look at some HD receivers that have such poor looking displays. The Humax Foxsat/Foxsat HDR looks lovely compared to the "standard font, standard layout" approach most manufacturers use in their software.

10000maniacs

Considering what they have done to the picture on RTE1, TV3 and TG4 in recent weeks, I won't be using the service. The quality of the picture has deteriorated dramatically since October.
When I first tuned in, all channels were crisp and comparable to the Sky Digital versions of the channels.
But then they decided to cut the pixel count on all channels except RTE2, and it now looks terrrible. Its not as if they are trying to save bandwidth, or are they?

SRB

Agreed, the quality of the other channels is awful compared to RTE2 - anyone e-mailed and had a reply on this issue ?

The Cush

Eternal Wonderer wrote: »

Any idea of what the actual logo looks like yet, or have they even designed one?

I wonder what STB's they have planned for the service, who the manufacturers will be, what features they will have etc.

Considering they are MPEG 4 and the HD Ireland channel might make a comeback, it would be nice if their STB's contained a HDMI output and nice high-res HDMI On Screen Display. It's a shame when you look at some HD receivers that have such poor looking displays. The Humax Foxsat/Foxsat HDR looks lovely compared to the "standard font, standard layout" approach most manufacturers use in their software.

Havn't seen a logo yet but assuming if they have a name - they have a logo.

The STBs I would say will be off the shelf units from many manufacturers who will have submitted their receivers to Teracom for approval to carry the Saorview logo. I guess Humax and Sagem receivers/PVRs will be there, would like to see the Humax PVR-9300T500 available. This from RTÉNL

Manufacturers/distributors wishing to use the Saorview logo should contact Teracom (irdtest@teracom.se) to arrange testing. When a receiver passes the tests, it will then be eligible to be licensed by RTÉ to carry the Saorview logo.

HDMI outputs are Mandatory on HD STBs and (Highly) Recommended on HD iDTVs as per the Nordig receiver minimum spec. SD receivers are also part of the spec.

Norway's RiksTV operates an MPEG-4 DTT network with Nordig spec receivers. Here is a link to their approved receivers/iDTVs/PVRs - http://www.rikstv.no/Hva-trenger-du/Dekoder/. They also use Teracom for compliance testing.

muchos04

what is the HDMI port used for on the STB?

sesswhat

muchos04 wrote: »

what is the HDMI port used for on the STB?

Not sure which STB you mean but it will allow a digital video and audio connection to a HDMI enabled TV/Monitor. It does not necessarily mean a HD picture.

Rick_

Any picture quality problems at the moment are surely not indicative of the final service as this is still a 'test' so it could be changed closer to the time of an eventual launch.

scath

According to: http://www.irishionary.com/dictionary/640/amharc/ The gaelic word for view is amharc. So if they were to go fully gaelic on the name it would be Saoramharc. Can you imagine people trying to pronounce that? I reckon Saorview seemed more practical for considering Joe Public. If they wanna use 'Digitelly' for the ASO campaign I don't mind...I think it'd be a catchy name. I was wondering what they'd do regarding branding. The thing about Saorview is that they can apply it to cable or satellite denoting Irish FTA channels as a brand, and not alone OneVision channels. So I guess this means they are accepting FTA boxes will be sold regardless and they have a brand sticker then. The fact of this announcement I suspect is a positive indication regarding One Vision as they're not in any rush til 2011 really to launch otherwise, though it may be just an identifier and is a wise step anyhow regardless of what comes down the line

The Cush

scath wrote: »

According to: http://www.irishionary.com/dictionary/640/amharc/ The gaelic word for view is amharc. So if they were to go fully gaelic on the name it would be Saoramharc. Can you imagine people trying to pronounce that? I reckon Saorview seemed more practical for considering Joe Public.

or Radharc (remember the RTÉ religious programme) also translating as view or vision. Maybe OneVision could use it - Radharc Amháin

scath wrote: »

The fact of this announcement I suspect is a positive indication regarding One Vision as they're not in any rush til 2011 really to launch otherwise, though it may be just an identifier and is a wise step anyhow regardless of what comes down the line

An announcement is due one way or another according to this article from the Irish Independent before Christmas.

Both Eircom and TV3 declined to comment on the ownership changes, as did a spokesman for One Vision. A spokeswoman for the Broadcasting Authority confirmed changes had been notified, but said the authority would not announce a decision on the new structure until the New Year.

Sources close to the process, meanwhile, pointed out that while the chances of One Vision sealing a DTT deal had improved of late, success was by no means certain. "It's looking like we'll know by the middle of January, so that's something at least," said one source.

- Laura Noonan

Irish Independent

scath

Yip,the Cush, radharc also, but amharc is the verb, thus that was the one i picked instead. Yea we should be hearing something soon. Apparently OneVision were to renew intense discussions after Christmas with RTÉ NL. I do suspect it will run into February with terms agreed by end of month and agreements in February if it goes well with a press release in mid February. I doubt RTÉ would have bothered with Saorview if things weren't progressing though they were to certify equipment in the timeline around now. It may not be an indication of anything other than their 2011 timeline.

I guess we've to assume nothing and wait & read lol. I'd say nowt will be said except further BAI appointments, new One Visionshareholding approved, negotiations having reached an understanding towards positive outcome in sight by February. It seems Eircom has the appetite for it due to UPC's foray into phone more and more.

dowtchaboy

Apogee wrote: »

Nice one! Peig Saorview?

Elmo

Dreadful name. SaorFis or Free Vision would have been a better Idea. :rolleyes:

Sam Russell

I think the logo for the TVs and STBs should be RTENL in a tv shaped box. Everyone in Ireland buying a TV has heard of RTE, and would recognise it. Whereas the name they have chosen is difficult to pronounce for non gaelgoirs, and has no recognition factor atall. The RTENL would be a logo that would need no advertising spend.

I hope they launch soon, it can not be long now.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Whereas the name they have chosen is difficult to pronounce for non gaelgoirs, and has no recognition factor atall.

Comeon! we are just getting lazy now, half the country can't pronounce Lidl correctly.

Saor is not difficult to pronounce.

I think the logo for the TVs and STBs should be RTENL in a tv shaped box.

What about just the current RTÉ NL logo to save time and money.

Interesting that the owners of Boxer are helping them on this.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Interesting that the owners of Boxer are helping them on this.

I presume they are just a commercial lab, they do it for the money.

Gerry Wicklow

Sam Russell wrote: »

The RTENL would be a logo that would need no advertising spend.

In fairness I doubt if Joe Public know who RTENL are and may not even connect them to the 'Montrose Mafia':D

scath

Hehe gerry. No I think they used "Saorview" and not RTÉ NL is that this certification brand is not for RTÉ channels per say, but all free-to-air channels on Irish DTT,or at least on RTÉ's PSB multiplex. I would say that in fact that brand will be the FTA brand for which RTÉ will own the certification process and other FTA channels on it will pay into the advertising/marketing pot that RTÉ will pay into to market the brand.

That would appear to me to be the reason. In a way similar to the UK Freeview situation.

I would have thought though that RTÉ would have waited to liaise with One Vision after they signed off with the BAI and them on the certification and tie everything into the subscription box and limit the branding to the IDTVs and UK Freeview HD receivers.

The approach they would appear to be taking instead now appears to be the Freeview approach of allowing all FTA receiver manufacturers get equipment certified.

It sounds to me like they are starting to question if a commercial provider is going to go for it. Perhaps also, maybe UPC have cooled to the DTT idea also and thus they are required to fulfill end of 2011 and want to have launched early enough to assist ASO. If enough receivers are certified they could just decide to launch publicly and like the UK let the commerical part come afterwards. However by tieing in with OneVision certification instead would be better from the commercial point of view as it would encourage lock in at least on the STBs with One Vision while limiting "Saorview" to IDTVs.

I guess the reality is that some people won't want subscription stb's and just want the free. But the thing is if you allow people to buy the One Vision box at a subsided cost equivalent to the FTA boxes then it goes one step closer to getting subscribers via impulse subscribe by credit card and from a cost point would make no difference to the viewer. The cost is the factor. Subsidising costs by One Vision to the same price of purchase for the viewer of a Freeview HD box may be the best strategy for One Vision to encourage subscriptions.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Interesting that the owners of Boxer are helping them on this.

Wouldn't say helping, more like contracted - RTÉNL would be paying them for compliance testing.
They also carry out testing for Boxer Sweden & Denmark and RiksTV Norway, 3 of the 5 Nordic countries that developed the Nordig common receiver specification.

Sam Russell

It would appear that RTENL are ploughing on with DTT and all it entails while BAI just sit and watch them. If Onevision walks away, then we progress without them. If they sign, they accept the game as it now is. If they had signed a few months ago maybe the logo for DTT would be 'OneVision' or some such name.

The ASO is scheduled for 2012, the DTT switch on is due in Q3/2009.
[Ooops, that is already gone.]

DTT could be declared a full service in the coming weeks, with or without OneVision. Nothing technical is stopping it. All the required infrastructure is there. [Well, for more than 80% of the population - it only required 50% for DAB!]

Roll on rollout.

The Cush

Sam Russell wrote: »

It would appear that RTENL are ploughing on with DTT and all it entails while BAI just sit and watch them. If Onevision walks away, then we progress without them. If they sign, they accept the game as it now is. If they had signed a few months ago maybe the logo for DTT would be 'OneVision' or some such name.

The ASO is scheduled for 2012, the DTT switch on is due in Q3/2009.
[Ooops, that is already gone.]

DTT could be declared a full service in the coming weeks, with or without OneVision. Nothing technical is stopping it. All the required infrastructure is there. [Well, for more than 80% of the population - it only required 50% for DAB!]

Roll on rollout.

There are/were no definite dates for the rollout of DTT or ASO, Q3/2009 was suggested when Boxer were awarded the contract, 2012 is only a recommended date, Jun 2015 is the closest to a hard date but even then analogue can still continue under certain conditions.

RTÉNL's function is to rollout the network and certify the receivers, it will be up to RTÉ and the BCI (& Dept of Comms.) to launch the service.

Television is going digital. RTÉNL is rolling out a national DTT transmission system in preparation for the introduction of the new service.

There is no definitive launch date for a DTT service in Ireland as yet. This is a matter for RTÉ (www.rte.ie) and the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (www.bci.ie) to determine.

http://rtenl.ie/dtt.htm

This is what the Minister said at the end of Nov, could be March before its finalised.

The Minister reiterated that nothing will happen until the commercial situation has been resolved. Her expects this to happen by the end of the first quarter of 2010. The Analogue Switchover Group will remain, for now, an internal group of the Department without representation from stakeholder groups including broadcasters, manufacturers and TV Access.

http://www.tvaccess.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88:dttprogress&catid=45:digital-terrestrial-television-articles&Itemid=65

Elmo

IMO RTÉ are sitting up and ploughing along rather than hanging around for the BAI and the Department to get their acts together.

As I have said repeatedly ASO/DSO has to happen regardless of Boxer, One Vision, Easy TV, the BAI or the Department AND it doesn't matter whats on the box.

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

As I have said repeatedly ASO/DSO has to happen regardless of Boxer, One Vision, Easy TV, the BAI or the Department AND it doesn't matter whats on the box.

This has been said many times here in many different posts and no one disagrees, the best definitive date we have right now is Jun 2015 which was agreed in Jun 2006 (ITU GE-06).

Deadline for turning off analogue TV may stretch to 2015
by Laura Noonan - Friday March 07 2008

THE 2012 deadline for switching off analogue TV is "not written in stone" and may be extended as far as 2015, the chief executive of the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI) revealed yesterday.

The comments came as the BCI unveiled details of the licensing process for Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT), which will ultimately replace traditional analogue TV.

The BCI has previously cited 2012 as the absolute cut-off point for DTT, but yesterday chief executive Michael O'Keeffe stuck a distinctly softer tone.

"It's not written in stone," he said. "It was the target date."

He added that the actual switch-off date was likely to be "between 2012 and 2015".

(http://www.independent.ie/business/m...5-1308874.html)

Elmo

The Cush wrote: »

This has been said many times here in many different posts and no one disagrees, the best definitive date we have right now is Jun 2015 which was agreed in Jun 2006 (ITU GE-06).

Yes but the usual argument from most on boards is that you cannot role out Digital when you don't have the extra stations. IMO the rest of Europe put the cart before the horses, rolling out TV channels and then their DTT not thinking of the costs. Even if Saorview starts marketing the 5 current channels are perfectly expectable to those in 4 TV land. When you have the system 100% role out then add your extra channels, let the BAI start licencing independent stations as Must Carries.

The suggested channels on Boxer, One Vision and Easy TV will take money out of our economy. Just think about it Sky have a 7% share of the audience, ITV/UTV have 7%, Channel 4 has 7%, UKTV, Viacom etc etc all major brands with several TV stations. Able to take at least 50% of the advertising revenue. You think Irish TV is bad now give it 5 years when stations like E! and their spin off channels start grabbing for advertising revenue.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

IMO the rest of Europe put the horse before the cart, rolling out TV channels and then their DTT not thinking of the costs. Even if Saorview starts marketing the 5 current channels are perfectly expectable to those in 4 TV land. When you have the system 100% role out then add your extra channels, let the BAI start licencing independent stations as Must Carries.

The horse is usually before the cart.

The DTT system is replacing the current analogue service, just as a new motorway replaces the N road. This means :- more capacity, better quality road, faster travel, etc. etc., DTT will give more channels, better quality picture, but that already exists with $ky and UPC. The main point is that it gives it FTA, and allows RTE to extend its service to additional channels. I hope it does not extend to 'slapper channels' that have appeared on Freesat of late.

Given that the service would be available to 80% of the population from the start, even if that was tomorrow, why should ASO take very long? Surely, a STB installation would not be beyond 80% of the population? Rapid changeover is in the interest of everyone, IMHO.

Why not go for switchoff of the major transmitters on 1st Jan 2011, 50 years after they were turned on. No fuss was made when RTE turned off the MW radio transmitter, it saved them a million euro a year in ESB costs.
How much would turning off the main TV transmitters save RTE?

The Cush

Elmo wrote: »

Yes but the usual argument from most on boards is that you cannot role out Digital when you don't have the extra stations. IMO the rest of Europe put the horse before the cart, rolling out TV channels and then their DTT not thinking of the costs. Even if Saorview starts marketing the 5 current channels are perfectly expectable to those in 4 TV land. When you have the system 100% role out then add your extra channels, let the BAI start licencing independent stations as Must Carries.

Extra channels are not required to roll out DTT, extra free channels may incentivise viewers to transition quickly from analogue to digital as we move closer to switchoff.
Unfortunately someone has to pay the bills but we are coming to the end of the process and hopefully by the end of March the launch phase can begin.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

The horse is usually before the cart.

Thank you and corrected :rolleyes:

more capacity, better quality road, faster travel, all good.

RTE to extend its service to additional channels (But they have no plans and it would deteriorate their current channels, just look at ITV and C4 even BBC has cause for concern Quantity != Quality

Unfortunately someone has to pay the bills but we are coming to the end of the process and hopefully by the end of March the launch phase can begin.

And the public will. RTÉ NL could charge realistic prices for space on their network for new channels that could be classed as must carries. Not only does it open space but it should reduce the cost of carrying RTÉ channels for RTÉ since new channels will begin to appear.

The current situation sees One Vision buy space from RTÉ NL which sees the consumer buy products from One Vision. Rather than having New channels open up and sell advertising to pay for DTT. Let them go on UPC and Sky and if people want extra channels let them pay for Sky or UPC.

Lets try to keep advertising revenue in Ireland.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

Thank you and corrected :rolleyes:

RTE to extend its service to additional channels (But they have no plans and it would deteriorate their current channels, just look at ITV and C4 even BBC has cause for concern Quantity != Quality



And the public will. RTÉ NL could charge realistic prices for space on their network for new channels that could be classed as must carries. Not only does it open space but it should reduce the cost of carrying RTÉ channels for RTÉ since new channels will begin to appear.

The current situation sees One Vision buy space from RTÉ NL which sees the consumer buy products from One Vision. Rather than having New channels open up and sell advertising to pay for DTT. Let them go on UPC and Sky and if people want extra channels let them pay for Sky or UPC.

Lets try to keep advertising revenue in Ireland.

Agreed. Sorry about the horse, could not resist.

RTE could use the extra space by having RTE HD, just as BBC HD is a high definition of other channels. It could also use a channel, say RTE3, as a rescheduled version of RTE 1 + 2, where their own programmes are shown at different times. For example, they show a lot of programmes like 'The View' late at night, when an earlier time alternative might be better for some viewers, and it would be an alternative to bought in programmes.

Clearly, selling channel space to the competition they face for advertising spend would be less than commercially astute. As you say, keep the spend in Ireland, preferably with RTE. [Our own, our very own, RTE, paid for by us!]

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Clearly, selling channel space to the competition they face for advertising spend would be less than commercially astute. As you say, keep the spend in Ireland, preferably with RTE. [Our own, our very own, RTE, paid for by us!]

So your saying to me that an RTÉ Three could fend of larger companies entering the advertising market. I am talking about allowing RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 and perhaps other Irish companies to create jobs in the industry in Ireland rather than allowing money to head to other markets.

Allowing more people gain access to Sky 1, E4 etc rather than allow new and existing Irish companies to provide the same type of programming, while also regulating the number of Irish programmes on such stations. The BAI have no real control over UK or International television stations.

And what is to say that One Vision won't sell space to stations like Buzz and Smile.

Infoanon

Elmo wrote: »

You think Irish TV is bad now give it 5 years when stations like E! and their spin off channels start grabbing for advertising revenue.

E! already has an Irish opt out for advertising - does not make Irish TV any better or worse.

Elmo

Infoanon wrote: »

E! already has an Irish opt out for advertising - does not make Irish TV any better or worse.

That was my point. That a station getting 0.2% of the audience is taking advertising it adds nothing to Irish TV. Discovery are next with 0.4% audience share. Add all of the other Disco channels, all the other Viacom channels, all the other UKTV channels all with opt outs they already have nearly 50% of the audience. Advertising revenue has already dropped this year, it will continue to drop with the influx of foreign channels.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

That was my point. That a station getting 0.2% of the audience is taking advertising it adds nothing to Irish TV. Discovery are next with 0.4% audience share. Add all of the other Disco channels, all the other Viacom channels, all the other UKTV channels all with opt outs they already have nearly 50% of the audience. Advertising revenue has already dropped this year, it will continue to drop with the influx of foreign channels.

Surely that is the point I am making. If we do not create channels like RTE HD and RTE 3, then there is no place for viewers to turn to but foreign channels. When the government was looking for a second channel, RTE 2 was started, rather than using a UK based second channel. As a result, RTE 2 is now a fully fledged channel, rather than a rebroadcaster like TV3. I]But tv3 are increasing their home [S]groan[/S] grown stuff[/I

OneVision doen not figure yet. I do not know what offerings OneVision will put out, as they have not even signed up yet, and certainly have not put a list of channels, or schedule of charges. If they simply sell channels to the lowest common denominator, for the highest margin, then they will fail. If they do not, they may well fail anyway.

We need a start date, now. And a ASO date.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

OneVision doen not figure yet. I do not know what offerings OneVision will put out, as they have not even signed up yet, and certainly have not put a list of channels, or schedule of charges. If they simply sell channels to the lowest common denominator, for the highest margin, then they will fail. If they do not, they may well fail anyway.

We know what they plan to offer and that is pretty much the same as UPC + Sky, but with more access to people. Not as many channels. I just stated Buzz and Smile as bad examples of what could be.

RTÉ NL's mux will have maybe 8 channels? or how many if they are HD? RTÉ 3 and HD will only take audience from RTÉ 1 and 2. And this has been the case in the UK for the BBC, ITV and C4 none have increased audience share, rather they have spread their audience.

One Vision's mux will consist of mainly imported television services all of which will eventually try to advertise to Irish consumers. While Discovery have plans UKTV aren't far behind, Gold and Dave are popular in this country.

More people in multichannel land will see decreases in RTÉ's share that decrease should go to other Irish companies IMO.

Ronnie Binge

As I can watch the four and a quarter Irish channels and FTA BBC/ITV/C4/Five on a combo box, it's all one to me whether Sourview as a brand happens or not. And I certainly don't give a crap about what niche slapper or pop video channel appears or disappears, or what brand of sanitary towel gets advertised or not, or whether its run from a warehouse in Bolton or Tallaght, its BBC Two and Four for me most nights.

I have no interest in paying anything more than the price of my television and box and my TV licence. Commercial television can continue to be a number of bald men fighting over a smaller number of combs as far as I'm concerned. RTENL have dragged their heels over the technology and have deliberately allowed one and possibly two commercial consortia to go wallop over DTT, and with Free to Air Satellite bringing me what I want it's game over for commercial DTT for me. Wall to Wall TV3 and 3e is a vision of hell as far as I am concerned, so I certainly would never shell out a cent for that sort of rubbish. An Irish "Arts" channel packed with advertisements for box sets of classical music would have as much appeal to me as a week old opened tin of kippers.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

We know what they plan to offer and that is pretty much the same as UPC + Sky, but with more access to people. Not as many channels. I just stated Buzz and Smile as bad examples of what could be.

RTÉ NL's mux will have maybe 8 channels? or how many if they are HD? RTÉ 3 and HD will only take audience from RTÉ 1 and 2. And this has been the case in the UK for the BBC, ITV and C4 none have increased audience share, rather they have spread their audience.

One Vision's mux will consist of mainly imported television services all of which will eventually try to advertise to Irish consumers. While Discovery have plans UKTV aren't far behind, Gold and Dave are popular in this country.

More people in multichannel land will see decreases in RTÉ's share that decrease should go to other Irish companies IMO.

Whatever Onevision said they would have was for the submission they made ages ago, when push comes to shove, they will go with a cheaper mix at a higher price if they can get away withit. Look at TV3 as an example of bending the rules to cheapen the mix.

As for extra RTE channels, I do not think channel hoppers, of which I am one, will necessarily land on foreign channels more often if there are more Irish channels low down on the EPG, in fact higher quality home produced programmes will keep them watching. The repeat of items at different times make it easier not to miss shows that clash, even with a PVR. It will make schedules easier for RTE if they have more slots. The extra channels do not have to be 24 hours, perhaps only for prime time, say 6 hours a day.


We need quality television first. Choice is an illusion if it is measured in the number of channels we can receive, without reference to which channels.

I have Freesat, and I get DTT as it is, with very good analogue. I have no intention in taking any pay tv, thankyou. I had too much of being ripped off for my cable which rose in price as its quality dropped.

Why would anyone pay money for a subset of UPC and $ky?

Elmo

Ronnie Binge wrote: »

RTENL have dragged their heels over the technology and have deliberately allowed one and possibly two commercial consortia to go wallop over DTT

RTÉ have made several attempts to role out digital only to have it postponed by the regulators and government.

We need quality television first. Choice is an illusion if it is measured in the number of channels we can receive, without reference to which channels.

Which is what I am saying, however if One Vision/Easy TV or any DTT provider provides access to a range of sub-par television stations they will eat into the market and many of the chains of channels will look to sell advertising to an Irish Market.

or whether its run from a warehouse in Bolton or Tallaght

I personally would like to see that advertising money spent in Ireland on Irish jobs.

An Irish "Arts" channel packed with advertisements for box sets of classical music would have as much appeal to me as a week old opened tin of kippers.

Many would say the same about BBC Snore*.


*I happen to like BBC 4, before you start

I have no interest in paying anything more than the price of my television and box and my TV licence.

I am suggesting that new Irish TV channel are provide FTA across the DTT service.

mjsmyth

Why would the addition of more channels on DTT, which will the medium used by the minority, mean less money in the advertising pot for RTE, TV3 and TG4?

I could understand it if there was a specific version for RTE, TV3 and TG4 for cable, satellite and dtt, but there is not, they are all the same. If someone is advertising with RTE, then it is for the whole market, not just on a specific platform.

The 4 Irish channels are already fighting with Sky, C4, UTV and a few others for advertising revenue. Unless itis specific versions of some must see channel with Irish adverts, then I can't see the problem.

mj

Elmo

Okay! lets just get this right.

Currently there are 17 UK/Multinational companies selling Irish Air Time this accounts for 17.7 of the audience. All other "cable and satellite" channels get 25%.

Now lets suggest that UKTV decide that they want to have Irish advertising across all their channels. What happens when all Viacom channels begin selling advertising? followed by all Discovery channels?

It reduces the amount of advertising revenue available to RTÉ, TV3, TG4 and Setanta. In multichannel land each Irish channel bar cable only ones have reduced audiences.

*BBC 1 and 2 have 10 to 12% of an audience.