(GIS, GID, DSC) GAS COURSES IN METAC LAOIS

martineire

Hi i am a plumber who is currently unemployed and i am thinking of doing my gas courses (GIS,GID and DOMESTIC SERVICING COURSE) in METAC training centre in laois has anyone on this site done theses courses and are they worth doing for the money you pay enrolling on each course for the servicing and repair on gas boilers. Thanks

arii

for what its worth martin i found metac to be a professional outfit from beginning to end. well layed out classrooms and good teachers. imo metac are a far better choice for the courses ur after. best of luck.. arii.

martineire

Yea i hearded it was a good centre. Is there anyone that can tell me in the GID (gas installer domestic) course is there much practical training (installing gas appliances ect) or is it all theory learning regs and standards ect?

Micky Dolenz

Highly unlikely there is any service or installation show how's. They assume you have experiance in the field before you do course.

They are courses to prove competency and not a qualification, as a plumber you would have no problem with the first two courses, there is a lot to take in and you can get a lot of info on the courses, i found Metec to be a good center i did my papers there.
Domestic servicing although achievable would not give you the skills to be a jobbing gas fitter, it would be like doing a couple of weeks talking about cars and then opening a garage, it took a four year apprenticeship to give me the qualifications to work on gas in a safe manor, so doing these courses is going to leave you a bit short, Gary.

martineire

I am qualified plumber and i have worked on domestic gas installations, my past employer is gas registered so he signed off all my work but now that i am unemployed i was just thinking of getting into the servicing and repair of gas appliances i have my GIS course completed already in CIT it is now part of your apprenticeship in phase 6 so that is done, i am qualified a year now so i want to go down the servicing/repair route. i am about to do my GID course in metac but as you know that will enable you to become RGII registered on completion but it will teach you notting about servicing/repair of gas appliance (boilers ect) but there is a servicing course in metac also DSC (domestic servicing course) its a hands on course and i was just worndering has anyone completed this course and does it teach you much on servicing/repairs as i am experienced on working on gas but want to go down the servicing/repair route with little experence on that side of things with gas. I do service and repair oil burners and have done my oftec courses.

I am fully aware of the syllabus to the point where i was approached to teach it a couple of times by Metec. I am Rgii and Gassafe(Corgi) registered and have been doing these papers in one way or another for over 20 years.

As already posted the purpose of these papers is for you to walk in the door and have a platform to prove the knowledge you already have, they are not a qualification, so nobody is there to teach you, you will have help to get you through the papers and you can learn a bit from that, but the lecturers will not have time to put in to context what they are showing you.

Long story short, you can sit these papers and pass, but they won't make you a gasman as they are unfailable, if you want to be safe, qualified and capable then you would have to go back to college and do a C&G course or similar, Gary.

The reason i am a bit stroppy about these courses is that you just can't do safely what i do off the back of a 12 day course, as you know before there has been no real regulation enforcement allowing a lot of domestic installation to be fitted dangerously and sub-standard, now we have gone the other way where you can be put in prison if you miss something and someone dies.

You are responsible for every gas appliance and it's safety in the property, until the next Rgii calls, so you would have to be on top of your game for water heaters, cookers, hobs, wall heaters, fires, warm air units, dryers etc... you would need to know flueing,termination, ventilation, fitting, positioning, electrics etc... your working in a environment where any job can be reported and checked from top to bottom, they have all day to check a installation for anything you have missed when you were on site for a hour, doing this course is better than heading out there and not doing it, but nothing beats proper training with a proper qualification, Gary.

martineire

Thats fair enough but i think your missing the point gary71 as i said i am experenced on work on domestic gas installations and i am a qualified plumber with my (GIS) gas installation safety and the reason why i am doing my (GID) gas installation domestic is so that i can go on to do my (DSC) domestic servicing course in metac which is a TRAINING course on servicing/repair (diagnose faults) of gas boilers, combi boilers, condensing boilers, gas fires and gas cookers and my question was has anyone done this course (DSC) and is it worth doing because between doing the two courses GID and DSC it is very expensive. (go onto the metac website and have a look) and as far as gas training goes in rep of ireland metac is the best training centre out there, you say notting beats proper training with proper qualification so metac must be the way to go if i want to go down the servicing and repair route

martineire

martineire wrote: »

Thats fair enough but i think your missing the point gary71

Nope

martineire wrote: »

as i said i am experenced on work on domestic gas installations and i am a qualified plumber with my (GIS) gas installation safety and the reason why i am doing my (GID) gas installation domestic is so that i can go on to do my (DSC) domestic servicing course in metac which is a TRAINING course

The reason for the training is to get you through the paper and not to teach you all aspects of the job

martineire wrote: »

on servicing/repair (diagnose faults) of gas boilers, combi boilers, condensing boilers, gas fires and gas cookers

You could easily spend a week on each type and still be lacking

martineire wrote: »

and my question was has anyone done this course (DSC) and is it worth doing

This is not a course aimed at people with little experience, you could be out of your depth on some of it, but it is a good course, why don't you ring Metac and talk to them they are very honest.

martineire wrote: »

(go onto the metac website and have a look)

I know Dominic Dunne, who wrote the paper, that's how i know whats in the course:D

martineire wrote: »

and as far as gas training goes in rep of Ireland metac is the best training center out there,

Correct

martineire wrote: »

you say notting beats proper training with proper qualification so metac must be the way to go if i want to go down the servicing and repair route

Honestly what do you think you're going to learn in twelve days, It's not a qualification it's a certification for proof of competency and aimed at jobbing service engineers, the training is to get you to pass the paper and not to teach you a bucket load of new skills.


I am a fully qualified gas engineer, i teach fault finding and servicing of gas appliances, i am the one who gets called in when others can't fix things, that puts me in a position to understand what skill set is required to do the job safely, doing a 12 day course is not enough, it will show you basic fault finding procedures and safe working practice with electrics on appliances, but that's not the same as going to college and becoming qualified, you say you have gas experience, but the important thing is how much training/experience do you have at being a gas service engineer, it's a completely different job to installing/servicing oil boilers.

I commend you for trying to improve yourself and i have no doubt you can pass the paper and you will become more employable because of it, the point i am trying to make(maybe badly) is working as a gas service engineer in Ireland is dangerous with lots that can go wrong and RGII just waiting for a mistake, you have to know what you doing because once you take the paper to say your competent, you then have no excuses if you miss something because of lack of knowledge or experience, i often come a cross things that make me nervous and there are things i have nearly missed because they were so reckless i never thought it was possible, Gary.

Micky Dolenz

I have to agree with Gary. There are a lot of different types of gas workers, those who install and those who commission and service. They rarely mix well.

Take for example, A householder calls out a Bord Gais agent for a problem on heating, they say it's a motorised valve etc, call a plumber, they will cry.

I would be fimilar with a lot of installers who won't commission or service, but they will size and run pipework and hang appliances in compliance with IS: 813 and IS: 820, they will be as certified(RGII and Bord Gais approved for commercial/industrial) as much as the guys who commison/repair/service applainces, but have a different skill set.

I would almost see it as two completey equal and different trades, ones that take a lot of learning and on site supervised experience.

Go on the course and get as many qualifications as you can. I would have no doubt that you would follow IS:813 and would not at all be dangerous in the way you install. where you would probably fall down is on repair of gas appilances, this is where the problems are. Without experience or a co worker to call, it's guess work or a few calls to a the respective manufactuers tech line.

I think you are doing the right thing and upskilling.
Being OFTEC and RGII registered is making you very employable. It may be a good idea to strike out on your own, but stick with what your good at or your heart will be broken.

martineire

Thanks gary71 and mick dolenz i total understand what ye are saying, but i did the GIS in phase 6 in cork (free of charge) im getting fas funded the full amount to do the GID so why not ive notting to lose, so i may aswell go the full hog and cough up and pay for the (DSC) domestic servicing course myself and do it right while i have started it eh. Im a keen learner and have an interest in the servicing/repair of domestic gas appliances and ill also learn as i go on whether as an employee or self employed. We all start somewhere and as a qualified plumber i have a good base to start on and in theses very hard times there is notting better than to do as many of theses courses as possible and upskill myself as much as i can and of COURSE it does not look too bad on my CV eh

martineire

Sorry one more thing gary71 you say id be best to go back to college and do training on gas and get qualified but where might such a training collage be in ireland all i can find is the likes of metac and chevron training and the gas courses are the ones i am doing now.

You might have to wait for a Irish qualified engineer to give you the heads up on the qualification system here, I've done a bit of surfing this morning and could find no courses, it seems you can work on gas with no prior training requirements as there is no training:eek:, if you have a look at http://www.hotcourses.com/uk-courses/Domestic-Natural-Gas-Installation-Maintenance-NVQ-Level-2-3-Apprenticeship-courses/page_pls_user_course_details/16180339/0/w/34139628/page.htm
this will give you an idea of the level of training it would take to do the job, there are certain aspects of the job you know already and you may find courses in England you can do to fill the gap http://www.wlt-group.com/page.php?a=1&s=48 thats a 48 day course to give a basic qualification so you an see why i find a 12 day course can leave you short on knowledge to do the job safely and factor in the RGII inspectors who will be examining your work and expecting you to be at a level shown in the above links, so be careful out there, Gary.

robdugg

For what it’s worth I just finished a GID course with Chevron Training. I am an unemployed plumber and Chevron helped me get the fee paid by social welfare and fas. Martin Hogan was my trainer who I found to be a genius on the topic, I learned a lot from him and the course was very practical.

Now I’m busy looking for work !!

Martin Hogan is a God:D

Micky Dolenz

gary71 wrote: »

Martin Hogan is a God:D

Gary, or should we call you Martin? :P

I'm not as good as Martin, watching him wire up one of his Massive Viessman put me in my place.

strandsman

martineire wrote: »

Hi i am a plumber who is currently unemployed and i am thinking of doing my gas courses (GIS,GID and DOMESTIC SERVICING COURSE) in METAC training centre in laois has anyone on this site done theses courses and are they worth doing for the money you pay enrolling on each course for the servicing and repair on gas boilers. Thanks

Martineire, how did you get on with your training course, did you get work out of it?

martineire

I finished my courses oftec 101/105e/600a and did my GIS GID and DSC and happy days got in with a service enginner in my area just do all gas, he is a service agent for bord gais and he got all the service work for airtricity in your location.:D

strandsman

was the GIS GID and DSC course difficult, who did you do the course with? chevron?

martineire

No i did it with METAC, The GIS and GID is mainly safety based and in the classroom not much practical in them other than doing the let by and soundness test and a small bit of wiring ect, you will learn notting about servicing and fault finding boilers. The DSC is very good 80% practical on servicing and fault finding boilers but you will be still left a bit short in the end you really will need to get in with a service engineer in your area after the course to get the experence you will require to be able to go out there and work for yourself. (Forgot to say if you are not a plumber or dont have a very good knowledge of plumbing dont do the courses keep your money in your pocket)

Micky Dolenz

Thats the problem though. who is going to want to give competition hands on training,. I know I'd be slow to do so.

Micky Dolenz

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

Thats the problem though. who is going to want to give competition hands on training,. I know I'd be slow to do so.

One of the things I miss from working in London is the camerarderi between gas engineers:o but in saying that there are so many chancers out there now, even someone as caring and sharing as me would be reluctant to give a dig out:eek:

anuprising

that's the problem here , people try to make themselves priceless and think they are better than others
I have no problem helping others as I have been helped extensively over the years and still am getting help and knowledge .
Gary , isn't this your second career ? others are trying this for a second career also in this country but meet with resistance on a daily basis . instead of telling us how brilliant you are would you not show your caring and sharing side also ?
maybe give the chancers and 18 day wonders a point in the right direction to help them gain knowledge and experience ?

no one should begrudge a man a second chance or a shot at a second career

Micky Dolenz

anuprising wrote: »

that's the problem here , people try to make themselves priceless and think they are better than others
I have no problem helping others as I have been helped extensively over the years and still am getting help and knowledge .
Gary , isn't this your second career ? others are trying this for a second career also in this country but meet with resistance on a daily basis . instead of telling us how brilliant you are would you not show your caring and sharing side also ?
maybe give the chancers and 18 day wonders a point in the right direction to help them gain knowledge and experience ?

no one should begrudge a man a second chance or a shot at a second career

Here's the problem.

Most guys are one man show's. To add another worker to your insurance, which you would have to do, could cost up to a grand more.

anuprising

lame excuse - talking about hands on experience , your policy covers casual labour up to €7500 - they all do
most newbies have there own anyway for €700 dual fuel and electric

metac and chevron tell them where to get it before they can register with rgii anyway

Micky Dolenz

anuprising wrote: »

lame excuse - talking about hands on experience , your policy covers casual labour up to €7500 - they all do
most newbies have there own anyway for €700 dual fuel and electric

metac and chevron tell them where to get it before they can register with rgii anyway

I've already given my reason. It's work enough training my own lads then bringing on potential competitors. I have adequate insurance to cover up to multiple employees.

I can see a lot of one man bands, slow to "help" due to insurance complications. If I have a man on my job and there is an accident, who does the client sue, him or me?. A lot of guys won't want that potential headache.

In short, it's all win for the guy learning, and nothing to gain from the teacher.

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

Gary , isn't this your second career ?

Nope, I'm a Ex British Gas Engineer and apart from my spell in prison i'v been at this for 25 years and have now made enough mistakes to know not to make to many again.

anuprising wrote: »

. instead of telling us how brilliant you are would you not show your caring and sharing side also ?

I'm only as good as my last job, my phone is on 24/7 and I always return a call, I could make 20+ calls a day all to help fellow RGIs, I pay my own phone bills, I go out daily to warranty calls and where needed educate fellow RGI's and even the odd sparks, all are offered hugs but very few have accepted, just the sparks.

I don't like and now chose not to help any who don't understand what their doing or who are chancers only interested in the easy money.

anuprising wrote: »

maybe give the chancers and 18 day wonders a point in the right direction to help them gain knowledge and experience ?

No, I'd be happier to show them the door and pay their bus fare home, gas shouldn't be a plaything for someone who wants to give it a lash, RGI's should have a background in any trade that is suitable for working with a potentially dangerous substance in a safe manor and have a understanding in the risks involved.

I took a few calls today, one from a RGI looking for help after he melted a boiler because he forgot to convert it, this is while i was working on a boiler that had numerous RGIs to it, none who could identify a working pressure of 75mbar on LPG and that's why it was going "KABANG" and the morning started with a call about a lpg hob that was turning the pots black, the kitchen walls were covered in condensation, the OAP's all had headaches and the burner flames were really big, so no wonder I get a bit grumpy, do you think it is acceptable for any tradesman to turn in that kind of work working on gas or should there be a minimum skill/training requirement for new RGI's so their given the chance to do the job without having to beg for help or get in to trouble that's not easily got out of.

anuprising wrote: »

no one should begrudge a man a second chance or a shot at a second career

I have no interest or care in what a RGI did or didn't do before working on gas, I'm only interested in a RGI's ability to do their job properly, I'd would bet you I do more to promote safe working practices and help educate fellow RGI's who want to listen than most and i'm happy to do so because I never know when it going to be me late on a Friday night hoping someone will pick up.

I take my profession very seriously and what you've mistaken for a over blown sense of self importance is my annoyance as a qualified gas engineer at the lack of basic working practices shown by some RGIs, do you really think it's suitable for a person to work on gas with only 18 days training and do you think they would have a concept or fear of how things can go wrong if their not looking for it.

Billy Bunting

gary71 wrote: »

One of the things I miss from working in London is the camerarderi between gas engineers:o but in saying that there are so many chancers out there now, even someone as caring and sharing as me would be reluctant to give a dig out:eek:

I recon Thatcher wrecked the cameraderi around my time in British Gas, along with the first apprentice i took out :mad:

Bucked if i would risk my reputation with some of the "chancers" out there these days, give me back my apprentice.

strandsman

gary71 wrote: »

Nope, I'm a Ex British Gas Engineer and apart from my spell in prison i'v been at this for 25 years and have now made enough mistakes to know not to make to many again.




I'm only as good as my last job, my phone is on 24/7 and I always return a call, I could make 20+ calls a day all to help fellow RGIs, I pay my own phone bills, I go out daily to warranty calls and where needed educate fellow RGI's and even the odd sparks, all are offered hugs but very few have accepted, just the sparks.

I don't like and now chose not to help any who don't understand what their doing or who are chancers only interested in the easy money.



No, I'd be happier to show them the door and pay their bus fare home, gas shouldn't be a plaything for someone who wants to give it a lash, RGI's should have a background in any trade that is suitable for working with a potentially dangerous substance in a safe manor and have a understanding in the risks involved.

I took a few calls today, one from a RGI looking for help after he melted a boiler because he forgot to convert it, this is while i was working on a boiler that had numerous RGIs to it, none who could identify a working pressure of 75mbar on LPG and that's why it was going "KABANG" and the morning started with a call about a lpg hob that was turning the pots black, the kitchen walls were covered in condensation, the OAP's all had headaches and the burner flames were really big, so no wonder I get a bit grumpy, do you think it is acceptable for any tradesman to turn in that kind of work working on gas or should there be a minimum skill/training requirement for new RGI's so their given the chance to do the job without having to beg for help or get in to trouble that's not easily got out of.



I have no interest or care in what a RGI did or didn't do before working on gas, I'm only interested in a RGI's ability to do their job properly, I'd would bet you I do more to promote safe working practices and help educate fellow RGI's who want to listen than most and i'm happy to do so because I never know when it going to be me late on a Friday night hoping someone will pick up.

I take my profession very seriously and what you've mistaken for a over blown sense of self importance is my annoyance as a qualified gas engineer at the lack of basic working practices shown by some RGIs, do you really think it's suitable for a person to work on gas with only 18 days training and do you think they would have a concept or fear of how things can go wrong if their not looking for it.

So where do people start out on their carrer as a RGI, from what I can see from reading it looks like a closed shop within RGI for obvious reasons, If alot of people are slow to part with info or to train others in the field then new commers must go it alone, I would suggest a new commer of 40 years old with technical/enginerring experience would be a better RGI than (most) young apprentices, After all they are taught by people who may not have been properly trained themselves or passing on bad habbits or maybe just simply not every one can be a teacher/trainer.

anuprising

gary71 wrote: »

Martin Hogan is a God:D

I was with the 'messiah' today

you should ring him and let him know how you disapprove of the 18 day wonders he produced while with chevron
he is now out on his own and I think he produces his 'protege's' in 15 days now
www.martinhoganenergytraining.com

he sits on the safety board of the cer also , so is always looking for input

anuprising

anuprising wrote: »

I was with the 'messiah' today

you should ring him and let him know how you disapprove of the 18 day wonders

Martin is a friend of mine and my views are well known;)

martineire

Its true it is very hard to get someone to give you a dig out and show you the ropes but i managed it. Some people who have a good customer base will give you that dig out im sure of it. But i still believe if you are not a plumber spend your money some where else DONT WASTE IT ON A 12 DAY COURSE. Stick to what you know.